Author Topic: IDEA: Nerf Skin  (Read 1808 times)

nauta

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IDEA: Nerf Skin
« on: July 31, 2017, 03:01:32 PM »
Grains of salt first.  This is from a few months ago after the new meat regime came in, and this is just from the perspective of my character.

Praise second.

1.  I love all the new meat objects.
2.  I love the simulated desert environment, in terms of all the different critters and how tough they are.

Observation third: there's too much meat!

So here's the proposal: nerf skin.

(a) Add a delay to it so it isn't instant.
(b) Swap each level down one, so what is 'master' now is 'advanced' equivalent, what is 'advanced' is 'journeyman' equivalent, etc.  Hence, you partial fail more so you don't get as much meat from a critter as often.

Bonus suggestion: nerf fruits.  Make plants produce fewer fruits on reboot, or even none at all and let them grow naturally after reboot.
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Molten Heart

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2017, 03:17:57 PM »
The current way skin works does seem to be too fast. An idea I had was to make it possible to skin for things individually and specifically. If someone only wants the head of a scrab, maybe they could skin for just the head. Maybe someone wants just the meat from a creature and they don't want the hide, the shell, the bones, or whatever else is available. And by also adding a delay, this would make skinning a little more like crafting where the field dresser could skin what they wanted from a carcass, leaving behind a partially butchered carcass that someone else might find useful, salvaging bones or other animal parts they find useful. And if no one came alone, those things would disintegrate with the currently normal desiccation/decaying of the corpse object.

Maybe a dead critter has a valuable shell or hide and that would either have to be removed first, as a usable object, or scarified for someone who's just interested in eating a creature. This would make it more time consuming to harvest all of a creatures parts rather than possibly saving time by skinning for the exact thing someone wants. Maybe it'd be easier to skin for specific things because rather than skinning for every possible product a dead critter can provide, the skinner could sacrifice those parts they don't want in favor of more easily cutting out those parts they are targeting. This would result in either more time being taken to get -everything- or a person to save that time and go for only what they want, not creating an excess or lesser used items and driving down their value and scarcity because they are being created as a byproduct of the skinning process, and they'd be left to rot away with the carcass rather than possibly littering the landscape.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2017, 03:32:36 PM by Molten Heart »

Riev

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2017, 03:26:23 PM »
Or making "skinning" into a craft skill, since you can use objects in the room, now.

craft bahamet
You could make:
#1 a cleaned out shell
#2 three large hunks of meat
#3 a pristine bahamet egg
etc

craft scrab.corpse
You could make:
#1 a pristine, workable shell
#2 a couple hunks of meat
#3 A collection of bits (entrails, pincers, head)


Give people something they're really -after- with a dead creature. Maybe at Master Level, add a #4 - a set of shell, meat, and egg if you're really good, lucky, or greedy.

Bonus: Comes with delay timers like all other crafting skills.
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Kryos

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2017, 03:34:38 PM »
I actually would take a different stance on this.  I've skinned a few things in real life, and the way I'd like to see skin tuned is that failures on simple components are greatly reduced to nearly impossible.  Harvesting meat from a body is . . . not hard.  Getting the hide is similarly trivial, though it is time intensive.  Further, if you down a deer and work the meat, you could feed a family for days, a person for weeks.  In that respect, due to Arm's code not requiring tones of daily caloric intake and abstracting it a bit instead, its not too bad.  I can't comment on all meat skins from all animals, but for instance, dropping a bahamet or mekillot should be able to feed a *lot* of people for a *long* time, provided someone prepares the meat to keep it from rotting.

From there, things slowly progress towards more difficult.  A slight measure of finesse is required for organ harvesting that doesn't result in ruptures(cutting a stomach open is not a pleasant event).  Doing something like harvesting the venom gland from a snake's mouth though, would indeed be worthy of a feat of a well practiced skinner with some tricks up their sleeve. 

In short, I'd rather see meat, hides, and most organs be near trivial.  However, the quality of each could range greatly.  Meat isn't more or less nutritious based on value, but more tasty.  Hides, however, could be gated into crafting based on their quality.  And I suppose there's the stickler, to get it less silly and more grounded would require a whole subset of code around modified item values.

Riev

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2017, 03:46:13 PM »
I feel that's even more of a push for the Crafting System to take over for the skinning script, actually. At that point, you have certain reasons you're skinning the corpse to begin with. Are you in it for the hide? For the meat? Are you looking to pull a gland from the snake's mouth?

It might make it too discrete, as nothing says you cant pull a snake gland AND get its skin as well, but maybe making it a bit more discrete would allow for less "waste"?
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Delirium

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2017, 03:49:38 PM »
Skin the corpse, get a skin object and a carcass.

Then butcher the carcass with the craft command for its various parts (meat, gland, bone, etc).

That way people only in it for the hide/shell/antler will leave a carcass behind.

Instead of a pile of ... stuff.
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TheGoose

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2017, 09:57:54 PM »
I like Delirium's idea best.

chrisdcoulombe

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2017, 11:11:59 PM »
This would make a lot of sense.
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Kankfly

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2017, 12:35:07 PM »
While we're at it, can we leave some crime scene clues behind after we skin something? I'm not sure how messy skinning is, but I imagine it might be quite messy? If it isn't, then... maybe it can only be shown in 'hunt'.

>hunt
>Someone skinned a carcass here less than an hour ago.
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Kryos

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2017, 12:38:45 PM »
As a nitpick and note:  typically when you kill something, its really heavy to haul the whole thing back to wherever you're taking it.  You also don't typically take hides in the field, because you're inviting all sorts of big problems in so doing.  Both in the line of sanitation and predation upon you in turn.  You open the body up, take out all the guts, and bury/dispose of/ignore the ones you don't want, stash the ones you do, and then haul the might lighter body back.  Also helps avert post-death related organ problems.

Riev

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2017, 12:46:32 PM »
Skin the corpse, get a skin object and a carcass.

Then butcher the carcass with the craft command for its various parts (meat, gland, bone, etc).

That way people only in it for the hide/shell/antler will leave a carcass behind.

Instead of a pile of ... stuff.

I thought something SIMILAR to this was sort of in the works, but even staff are only allowed to submit <x> number of crafts a week or a month or something. It was Akariel's whole deal.
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nauta

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2017, 12:52:06 PM »
1. I like the craft idea (craft into a carcass), etc. provided that (a) there is a delay, thus slowing hunters down a bit in the field, so you might think twice about skin-and-grab if you are in a dangerous area; and (b) the total amount of meat gathered from an animal is like 20% less than what it gives now, or, in other words, there's more chance to fail/partial fail even at master.

2. As to the points about realism, here's an idea to justify less meat from a cut (which I think is good for gameplay reasons): you just got done taking that thing out in the middle of a sandstorm with a bone club.  Perhaps the failure to gather the meat was because you splooshed the organ all over the whatever, ruining the meat; or some vulture snagged it while you were skinning; etc.

Here's a third idea:

3. Make skinning require an actual skinning knife, at least at master/advanced levels.  You shouldn't be able to make such clean cuts with a spear.
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Delirium

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2017, 01:13:19 PM »
who the heck is actually skinning stuff with a spear?

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chrisdcoulombe

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2017, 02:03:34 PM »
Obsidian is a really good skinning tool.  Sharp and makes work easy, not maybe as easy as steel, but not bad either.  If you got a lot more meat objects then we would have to change food to more like how you need it irl and make the animals more rare.  Boring...I do like the idea of making skinning more of an ordeal though.
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Riev

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2017, 02:34:03 PM »
Obsidian is a really good skinning tool.  Sharp and makes work easy, not maybe as easy as steel, but not bad either.  If you got a lot more meat objects then we would have to change food to more like how you need it irl and make the animals more rare.  Boring...I do like the idea of making skinning more of an ordeal though.

I... don't understand. Nobody in the thread so far as said they wanted more meat. Just to have "carcass" objects and "skinning" objects, so if you don't WANT the meat, you can leave the carcass aside, or if you're a butcher, just take the carcass for the meat.
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Molten Heart

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2017, 02:37:14 PM »
One of the issues with a surplus of meat is spoilage. I think if raw meat was spoiling faster, this might help with there being too much meat for the setting.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2017, 02:42:47 PM by Molten Heart »

valeria

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2017, 02:58:35 PM »
If the problem is people leaving things lying around in the desert, I don't think nerfing skin is the way to go.

I remember back in the day where the problem was that animals didn't drop realistic amounts of anything. You could skin a whole bahamet and get a shell and a steak. I'd rather have skinned animals drop enough meat that someone can, if they want to, live off of hunting.

Not that I'd mind carcass items. Just that I would mind going back to animals dropping less stuff.

I think the problem is that people like roaming the desert killing things, or maybe they only want hides, so they just leave the horns and everything else lying around. Makes sense because a shop will only buy X number and those things are heavy. It doesn't make any sense in the game world, but it makes sense with the shop system.

My solution would be to have shops give diminishing returns instead of hard limits so people stop leaving things lying around in the desert. But I think I already posted in that thread a couple years back.

nauta

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2017, 03:14:07 PM »
If the problem is people leaving things lying around in the desert, I don't think nerfing skin is the way to go.

It's partly this -- the clutter is a bit oocly jarring -- there was a time a few months ago when you'd rove the western Vrun and it'd just be piles and piles of chalton meat. 

But my motivation is more driven from an experience with a PC who was trying to RP being realistically hungry in a harsh desert world as a hunter, and so IC considerations would demand that she skin the angry things that tried to eat her, but then she'd just have all this meat that she'd end up junking on the sly, using things like: junk meat (as a vulture snags it).  (I'd see other hunters doing this too.)  I'd also try to avoid over-hunting the critters, but of course the angry ones can't easily be avoided, and fleeing all the time gets tiresome.  There are other RP ways of dealing with it (develop a distaste for scrab meat or gortok meat, for instance), but it just seemed that if you went out on a hunt in an IG day you'd bring back a lot more meat than you'd really need to, even without twinking.  (Most of my time was spent trying to get from point A to point B and not hunting.)

It isn't a big deal, but extrapolating from that, I think there are gameplay considerations (i.e., shouldn't it be harder to not starve than it currently is?).

Then again, it's just a single data point from a very specific character, which was the first grain of salt mentioned.  Other PCs and combinations might have different experiences.

Also, welcome back, hoot!
« Last Edit: August 02, 2017, 03:20:08 PM by nauta »
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valeria

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2017, 08:22:55 PM »
Thanks!  I admittedly haven't been a hunter in a while, but I have been a scavenger, and most of the piled stuff I saw wasn't meat but was horns, organs, etc etc.

Anyway, I think if shops bought more than X slabs of meat, people might bring it in more.  And I also think that while the vast majority of people in the cities are starving the vast majority of people in the cities aren't going out and hunting either.  These are just my personal thoughts of course.  I like having the higher food availability, since food now rots.  Though it does make sense that meat left lying in the open would rot more quickly.

Riev

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2017, 09:14:17 AM »
I wonder if the City of Allanak would be interested in setting up a poopsmith-like code where you just sell them bags of meat for a pittance.
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Miradus

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2017, 01:43:30 PM »

I want to see quality added to items.

A tan strip of hide (superb)

Which would be used to make a better quality item than "a tan strip of hide (poor)".


Molten Heart

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #21 on: August 03, 2017, 01:50:40 PM »

I want to see quality added to items.

A tan strip of hide (superb)

Which would be used to make a better quality item than "a tan strip of hide (poor)".

Quality in materials would be something interesting to see, so that not just every scrab shell would be the same, maybe some would be better than others and maybe some would be of poor quality. Maybe this would be something left up to chance, maybe the skill of the skinner would have something to do with this, with a poor skinner having more poor hides and a more skilled skinner having a better chance at higher quality materials making it less binary with all materials being equal.

Maybe superior quality materials would be easier to work and craft with. Maybe superior quality materials like shells and hides, etc, would be required to make higher quality goods. This could also apply to other materials, stones, wood, etc.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2017, 01:55:55 PM by Molten Heart »

Riev

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #22 on: August 03, 2017, 02:02:50 PM »
There's a SIMILAR idea behind tools in the game, with qualities being attributed to certain tools, and I believe some crafts require a certain tool QUALITY.

I think it would be a massive undertaking to assign different quality levels to every material in game, though. I'd much rather think, for feasibility, that crafts start requiring tool quality.

Besides, are you then going to have a "poor" quality belt, and a "decent" quality belt? What would be the difference between the two?
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Molten Heart

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #23 on: August 03, 2017, 02:09:11 PM »
Craftables requiring tools is a good thing too, especially with them requiring a certain quality. It's in the same vein as the new tool changes.

Finished products like belts having a quality value seems like going to far. Having quality variations for raw materials that are otherwise pretty much all identical seems like a good idea. It'd be a lot of work, but it's still a good idea, one that would provide good results with the right implementation.

Currently all diamonds are the same, I don't think there is anything like low grade rubies, or high grade rubies. It'd be a way to make high grade craftables less coming because they'd require a higher quality of raw material which would be more rare.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2017, 02:11:17 PM by Molten Heart »

Riev

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #24 on: August 03, 2017, 02:12:32 PM »
Finished products like belts having a quality value seems like going to far. Having quality variations for raw materials that are otherwise pretty much all identical seems like a good idea. It'd be a lot of work, but it's still a good idea, one that would provide good results with the right implementation.

Currently all diamonds are the same, I don't think there is anything like low grade rubies, or high grade rubies. It'd be a way to make high grade craftables less coming because they'd require a higher quality of raw material which would be more rare.

Well, in that case, I think that'd require adding in new objects for the database, and creating/updating crafting recipes.

I mean, we have "a green stone" and "a polished green stone", and each one belongs in its own crafts.

If you had a craft that required a "high quality" scrab shell... I don't know. Why would you? What makes it high quality? Can it be a craft from an EXISTING scrab shell, where someone skilled in skinning or tanning can 'create' a high quality resource?
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Molten Heart

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #25 on: August 03, 2017, 02:23:19 PM »
Finished products like belts having a quality value seems like going to far. Having quality variations for raw materials that are otherwise pretty much all identical seems like a good idea. It'd be a lot of work, but it's still a good idea, one that would provide good results with the right implementation.

Currently all diamonds are the same, I don't think there is anything like low grade rubies, or high grade rubies. It'd be a way to make high grade craftables less coming because they'd require a higher quality of raw material which would be more rare.

Well, in that case, I think that'd require adding in new objects for the database, and creating/updating crafting recipes.

I mean, we have "a green stone" and "a polished green stone", and each one belongs in its own crafts.

If you had a craft that required a "high quality" scrab shell... I don't know. Why would you? What makes it high quality? Can it be a craft from an EXISTING scrab shell, where someone skilled in skinning or tanning can 'create' a high quality resource?

It seems we're heading into thread derailment territory. When I find more time I'll work up another thread.

valeria

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #26 on: August 04, 2017, 11:12:21 AM »
As the builder who went through every single tool in the game to assign a bunch of the preexisting tools a quality, I can tell you that it was time consuming and tedious.  I would volunteer again if staff needed that done again.  But we have a couple hundred tools and I'd guess around five to seven thousand craft component items, to put that in perspective. Every shell, every stone, every bone,  everywhere.  It would also require some coding, since quality is ONLY an attribute of tool-typed items, and changing all those items to tool items would screw up other aspects.  Ie, you can craft with a slingstone, but you can't sling a tool-typed stone.

Anyway, I'm not digging on the idea, just offering a perspective that it would be a MAJOR undertaking and would require at least some coding.

Molten Heart

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #27 on: August 04, 2017, 11:37:23 AM »
As the builder who went through every single tool in the game to assign a bunch of the preexisting tools a quality, I can tell you that it was time consuming and tedious.  I would volunteer again if staff needed that done again.  But we have a couple hundred tools and I'd guess around five to seven thousand craft component items, to put that in perspective. Every shell, every stone, every bone,  everywhere.  It would also require some coding, since quality is ONLY an attribute of tool-typed items, and changing all those items to tool items would screw up other aspects.  Ie, you can craft with a slingstone, but you can't sling a tool-typed stone.

Anyway, I'm not digging on the idea, just offering a perspective that it would be a MAJOR undertaking and would require at least some coding.

The tool change is a good one. It seems to be working out well, I really like it. Thank you for doing the work that the project needed done. It is appreciated.

And yeah, anything worth doing takes some work but think about the end result. If done right, would the work be worth a more complex crafting system?

I think worry about how it could be done is a different problem with management and I'm not suggesting someone would be forced to do the work needed, only if someone likes the idea and wanted to take up the project.

After all, it's not a proposal, just an idea for how things might be better.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2017, 11:48:10 AM by Molten Heart »

Miradus

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #28 on: August 04, 2017, 12:27:22 PM »

Anyway, I'm not digging on the idea, just offering a perspective that it would be a MAJOR undertaking and would require at least some coding.

I get it. I know the base DIKU code and I've coded many muds from scratch. It's a HUGE undertaking both in value assignment and code rewrite.

That said, it'd still be cool.

Riev

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #29 on: August 04, 2017, 12:34:13 PM »
I still think I'm more down for crafting a skinned scrab shell into a 'quality' scrab shell with a craft skill that checks skinning. If you fail, the shell wasn't good enough, but if you succeed, you manage to ... I don't know. Cut away any of the rougher, thinner looking areas to create a "lustrous chitinous shell" that now is included in all its own crafts.

It could be time consuming, but a Merchant PC could do all this themselves. Rather than assigning quality to every skinned object in the database, and then expect effects on crafted items.
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WithSprinkles

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #30 on: August 04, 2017, 02:13:04 PM »
I still think I'm more down for crafting a skinned scrab shell into a 'quality' scrab shell with a craft skill that checks skinning. If you fail, the shell wasn't good enough, but if you succeed, you manage to ... I don't know. Cut away any of the rougher, thinner looking areas to create a "lustrous chitinous shell" that now is included in all its own crafts.

It could be time consuming, but a Merchant PC could do all this themselves. Rather than assigning quality to every skinned object in the database, and then expect effects on crafted items.

Rather than hauling kills back to merchant PCs to butcher, processing top tier quality pelts and skins might have been an interesting thing for hunters employed by merchant houses to be able to do. Of course the merchants would still have to tan them, but... Maybe the expert skinning ability would have been something that could even have persisted if hunters left the house. More likely it would have been restricted to a certain way of cutting like "brew" is different than "craft" under the brew and so could be lost if someone bailed, but just tossing out that wild thought. It's moot now. (shrugs)
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Riev

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #31 on: August 04, 2017, 02:32:06 PM »
Its still a valid idea, but it wouldn't have given hunters the 'purpose' you'd think.

I'm still thinking +1 on carcass/resources off skinning, so you can bury the carcass whole if you want just the hide/claws...

If there's too much meat, I say chaltons don't need to drop as much meat as they do, or they should be FAR less aggressive to each other/far less numerous. Its expensive to eat in Allanak, hunters/grebbers provide sustenance at sustainable prices, but since a raw chalton steak and a cooked scrab steak are so similar, may as well eat the one you can get 6 of for no effort.
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Synthesis

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #32 on: August 05, 2017, 03:51:43 AM »
The underlying problem of "lots of junk items lying around" is the fact that these items are, indeed junk (most of the time).  If they were actually valuable (most of the time), they wouldn't be lying there.
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Doublepalli

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #33 on: August 05, 2017, 01:34:45 PM »
I think Skin is just fine as is. If you have master skinning you should be able to salvage most if not all of a corpse, meat included. Considering meat rots, and you have to eat it's really not so bad.

It becomes a problem when; you are in a clan and get free food.

Hauwke

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #34 on: August 05, 2017, 07:25:45 PM »
Simple solution to that. Cook the food you cut and eat it or spread it around instead of the clan food. Its a thing I do on just about every character that is clanned because it makes sense to do.

Oh you have 15 scrab steaks? Spread the scrab steak love!

edit to add: You can even make a scene out of dinner or breakfast. Probably dinner because you have plenty of time for that, get your guy slaving over a hot oven and such.

Yam

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #35 on: August 07, 2017, 04:11:01 PM »
This would have to go in with a buff to cooking to make it so advanced/master chefs still don't drop food in the dust 20+% of the time. Even so, I don't think this would be a very useful change. If you were so inclined you could still go spamhunt the Known. If you were a more restrained hunter, you'd HAVE to overhunt just to keep yourself fed (or make enough money to buy water, etc).

Bottom line, I think this would harm low-playtime players and wouldn't significantly impact high playtime players. It's already ridiculous enough that a moose-sized carru only yields two pieces of meat (which only fill up a PC for a day or two).

Riev

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #36 on: August 07, 2017, 04:15:39 PM »
It's already ridiculous enough that a moose-sized carru only yields two pieces of meat (which only fill up a PC for a day or two).

This is absolutely not the case. Those two "pieces" of meat end up being enough for like 6 services, which should last you longer than a RL hour and a half.

However, I do agree with the rest of your sentiment. It wouldn't affect the high-playtime "Its morning I should kill ALL the things" people, but the "I have time to play for 2 hours tonight, and my PC can't afford 50 coins for a steak, so I guess a-hunting I will go" will struggle even more.

But I'm still totes behind carcass/skinnables
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Yam

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #37 on: August 07, 2017, 04:18:28 PM »
It's already ridiculous enough that a moose-sized carru only yields two pieces of meat (which only fill up a PC for a day or two).

This is absolutely not the case. Those two "pieces" of meat end up being enough for like 6 services, which should last you longer than a RL hour and a half.

Might be misremembering which animal, but some of the big ones definitely don't yield a sane amount of meat. It also depends on what you cook things into.

Molten Heart

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #38 on: August 07, 2017, 04:26:35 PM »
Skinning a carru seems to produce much more meat than it has in the past. It's seems like a recent change, in the last year or so (maybe it was a part of the meat project.)

Riev

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #39 on: August 07, 2017, 04:31:20 PM »
Akariel's MeatCraft project has definitely evened the playing field on a lot of the Northern animals.

I still would rather see skinning be a crafting check on a body in the room/in inventory, but I don't think crafting recipes can have two different outputs (I might be wrong on that). Maybe if skinning gave you a carcass with RELATIVE ease, but then horns/skulls/piles of bones are harder to get at? Or maybe have Carcass Object + a collection of body parts on the side, that THEN needs to be crafted?
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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #40 on: August 08, 2017, 02:46:27 AM »
Akariel's MeatCraft project has definitely evened the playing field on a lot of the Northern animals.

I still would rather see skinning be a crafting check on a body in the room/in inventory, but I don't think crafting recipes can have two different outputs (I might be wrong on that). Maybe if skinning gave you a carcass with RELATIVE ease, but then horns/skulls/piles of bones are harder to get at? Or maybe have Carcass Object + a collection of body parts on the side, that THEN needs to be crafted?

Crafting scrab guts yields 4 different objects, so obviously it's possible.
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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #41 on: August 08, 2017, 09:14:15 AM »
.... oh god you're right.

I'm so bad at this game.
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Akariel

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #42 on: August 08, 2017, 03:52:55 PM »
The problem with carcass objects is that it would take a literally decade to set everything up and get it approved. Not only would making a new carcass object for every creature be mind-numbingly boring, we can only put a certain amount of crafts up for approval at any one time. I would rather fill my craft tool with new, interesting objects than load it down with a ton of more complex ways to have very similar results (with a time delay) to skinning.

That said, I am all for putting a delay on the skin command and have tried to push for it before - and will push for it again.

Yam

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #43 on: August 08, 2017, 07:06:35 PM »
The problem with carcass objects is that it would take a literally decade to set everything up and get it approved. Not only would making a new carcass object for every creature be mind-numbingly boring, we can only put a certain amount of crafts up for approval at any one time. I would rather fill my craft tool with new, interesting objects than load it down with a ton of more complex ways to have very similar results (with a time delay) to skinning.

That said, I am all for putting a delay on the skin command and have tried to push for it before - and will push for it again.

A sane delay would be great.

Delirium

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #44 on: August 08, 2017, 07:08:18 PM »
The problem with carcass objects is that it would take a literally decade to set everything up and get it approved. Not only would making a new carcass object for every creature be mind-numbingly boring, we can only put a certain amount of crafts up for approval at any one time. I would rather fill my craft tool with new, interesting objects than load it down with a ton of more complex ways to have very similar results (with a time delay) to skinning.

That said, I am all for putting a delay on the skin command and have tried to push for it before - and will push for it again.

A sane delay would be great.

+1, but please make it a -pre- delay so that it can be interrupted if, say, a giant mekillot comes wandering in.
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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #45 on: August 08, 2017, 07:31:26 PM »
yuuuuuuuuuup

TheGoose

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #46 on: August 09, 2017, 10:20:39 AM »
Could we maybe just not? Does everything have to take a fucking IRL hour? It takes long enough to get around.

valeria

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #47 on: August 09, 2017, 11:03:08 AM »
In an ideal world, there would be a delay between each item you pull off the corpse that depends on what you're pulling off. Before, of course.

Riev

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #48 on: August 09, 2017, 11:30:57 AM »
Could we maybe just not? Does everything have to take a fucking IRL hour? It takes long enough to get around.

Nothing stops you from packing the corpse beforehand, and doing it later, either.

And it doesn't have to be longer than 10-15 seconds. Its just that you can go in and skin corpse x10 in under five seconds, which is pretty ridiculous.
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Molten Heart

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #49 on: August 09, 2017, 12:13:50 PM »
Skinning could just modify the existing corpse object, leaving data on it about what has and hasn't been skinned, changing the description accordingly.This would mean changing the way skinning works but probably easier than creating a bunch of new objects to be skinned.

I like the idea of a delay for each item skinned, maybe take 2-15 seconds based on the difficulty vs skill level? Maybe size would also be a factor. It's reasonable to think that skinning a mekillot might take a little longer.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2017, 12:15:49 PM by Molten Heart »

Akariel

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #50 on: August 09, 2017, 12:49:50 PM »
Mekillot, Bahamet, and Salt Worms all currently use a system like what y'all described. I'm happy to do that sort of thing (with carcasses) with big creatures, but making new code just to make a system more complex and time consuming - then leave the same end result seems wasteful when we could have our limited coding resources working on better, more interesting things.

But delays, I like those.

Bushranger

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #51 on: August 09, 2017, 09:12:59 PM »
Unfortunately I can see some people doing something like this to 'practice' their skinning skill if the carcass system is implemented without delays:

Skin Scrab;get carcass;emote rips ~carcus up with a flurry of knife strikes;craft carcass into #1;drop all;say -shrugging Whatever, let's go.

I do like the idea of a delay but is it possible to tailor the delay to the size of the body being skinned?I like the idea of a vestric being plucked and dressed quicker than it takes to skin and butcher a carru.
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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #52 on: August 10, 2017, 02:57:01 AM »
I think putting a delay on skin would really be kind of pointless, but it's probably easy enough to implement, so...whatever.

Any hunter PC worth a damn will rest their mount, then sit and change ldesc to recover stamina while emoting skinning the foo.  I've never seen anyone bombing around the desert wrecking shit and skinning it, except in the fairly rare case where you NEED to get X, Y, or Z, but you also NEED to log out soon.
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650Booger

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #53 on: August 11, 2017, 05:18:01 PM »
a question related to this topic, I think.  I've noticed meat items disappear from my inventory occasionally if they are uncooked.  not spoiled, just vanished.  is this intended?
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Bushranger

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #54 on: August 11, 2017, 09:31:22 PM »
a question related to this topic, I think.  I've noticed meat items disappear from my inventory occasionally if they are uncooked.  not spoiled, just vanished.  is this intended?

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650Booger

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #55 on: August 11, 2017, 11:42:12 PM »
 :D thank you, I literally lol'd
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Vox

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #56 on: August 15, 2017, 01:49:30 AM »
Skin the corpse, get a skin object and a carcass.

Then butcher the carcass with the craft command for its various parts (meat, gland, bone, etc).

That way people only in it for the hide/shell/antler will leave a carcass behind.

Instead of a pile of ... stuff.

I love this.