Author Topic: Stable time for mounts  (Read 742 times)

chrisdcoulombe

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Stable time for mounts
« on: July 20, 2017, 08:22:07 PM »
I didn't see a thread for this and don't want to start a new one for it if there is one.

I think the Stable code needs re-worked.  I like that you can't just spam your mount in and out, but you should be able to put your animal in a dusk, get them out at dawn and they should be rested.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2017, 08:39:35 PM by nessalin »
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Delirium

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Re: Stable time for mounts
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2017, 08:22:45 PM »
I idea'd a similar thing. They should be as rested as they would be if you kept them out and 'rest'ed them.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2017, 08:39:47 PM by nessalin »
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chrisdcoulombe

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Re: Stable time for mounts
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2017, 08:26:00 PM »
I would like to think it would be even faster,  Its ideal conditions like if we are sitting in a tavern.  Their movement points should shoot up at an accelerated rate.  Not instantaneous like before, but faster than if they were resting outside of the stable.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2017, 08:40:40 PM by chrisdcoulombe »
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Delirium

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Re: Stable time for mounts
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2017, 08:33:58 PM »
Failing that, I think dropping it to 2 hours (20 minutes) would be more realistic & ideal for playability as well.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2017, 08:40:00 PM by nessalin »
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th3kaiser

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Re: Stable time for mounts
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2017, 09:01:53 PM »
I think it's pretty swell! Only change I"d dig was if they can figure out how to have the mount rest naturally while stabled so you can get it out halfway rested or whatever.

Lizzie

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Re: Stable time for mounts
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2017, 09:53:38 PM »
I don't think there should be an exact time between "however it was when you put it in" and "x minutes later."

What happens if you don't know what time it was when you stabled it - and didn't happen to catch the time? Now you have to wait 30 minutes - from when, exactly? Maybe you just flat out forget to check the time on your computer monitor, because you're too busy having fun roleplaying. Five, maybe six, maybe 10, maybe who the hell knows how many minutes later, you realize you didn't check. Now you're fucked. If you take it out ONE minute too early - you have to start the timer all over again. Your mount is now just as exhausted as it was 19 or 29 minutes ago.

A graduated, but accelerated rest period in the stables is ideal - if your erdlu is "exhausted" and would normally require 20 minutes to rest in a shaded outdoor area without any sandstorms - then stabling him will make it take only 10 minutes. If you take him out at 5 minutes, he's now halfway rested.
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Armaddict

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Re: Stable time for mounts
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2017, 01:25:27 AM »
A graduated rest time would be good (i.e. If you take it out halfway through, it's halfway or more-than-halfway rested).  However, I'm not really in favor of altogether shortening the period by any large amount, just because I view it as a way to prevent the 'whole trip in one go' thing, with possibilities for interruption, which just...doesn't really happen if you can stable it for just late at night and before dawn and be on your way again.

So in combination with the rest time being 'interruptible', I'd rather see a variance to the 'ideal' duration that is currently hard-set.  Sometimes it takes longer.  Sometimes it takes shorter.  That would be best for the realism part, and I guess I just don't find anything unplayable about the idea of beasts of burden actually being burdened enough that the player has to consider it when traveling long distances (i.e. Across the known).
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Inks

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Re: Stable time for mounts
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2017, 03:11:36 AM »
I like the new stable code a whole lot.
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Delirium

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Re: Stable time for mounts
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2017, 08:23:54 AM »
Don't get me wrong, I love this change. But the hard "exact 30 minutes" is a little awkward at times, especially when, as mentioned, if you'd simply idled and waited with it rested, you'd have been fine.

That's why I thought it might be a great compromise to have them slowly recuperate in the stables, if that is a coded possibility. If it isn't possible, 20 minutes in a sheltered stable seems it should be enough.
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Synthesis

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Re: Stable time for mounts
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2017, 12:45:35 PM »
Not sure it'd be possible, but it seems like an easy fix, assuming the code can keep track of time elapsed.

It'd basically be information stored on the mount ticket:
1. Mount type
2. Stamina  when stabled
3. Time stabled

Then a global variable for each mount type:  expected stamina regen per unit time.

Then when you offer ticket, it generates time elapsed from current time - time stabled, then multiplies time elapsed by expected stamina regen per unit time for the mount type, then adds that to stamina when stabled, ignoring stamina that goes above the mount's current max.
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Molten Heart

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Re: Stable time for mounts
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2017, 01:01:52 PM »
It does kinda suck when you go unstable your mount, after waiting all night and the mount is still tired, maybe even completely exhausted (just as tired as it was when it was first put into the stable). It's hard to give an IC justification when you can't join your party out riding, you have to say "Sorry guys, catch you later." The first time it happened to me it was a huge surprise. I keep close track now to make sure it doesn't happen, even if I have to wait an extra ten minutes (because I didn't do a good job of keeping track). I'd wager that a mount would get rested faster than three game hours just by resting it right there next to the stablehand.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 02:33:01 PM by Molten Heart »

TheGoose

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Re: Stable time for mounts
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2017, 02:28:26 PM »
It would, and that's the part that's truly infuriating.

Delirium

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Re: Stable time for mounts
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2017, 02:48:14 PM »
Why be infuriated by it? It's a new code addition, things like these occasionally have wrinkles that come out in playtesting. Take a deep breath, and please remember to be polite and constructive on the GDB.
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Riev

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Re: Stable time for mounts
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2017, 02:53:24 PM »
I think its perfectly fine to be infuriated by it, in its current incarnation. Players have less and less time to play, and if you were banking on having timed your mount retrieval right, only to find out you basically wasted 30minutes, it can BE infuriating.

I don't think Goose dislikes the change, just the fact that pulling out a mount that is still exhausted despite having been stabled for almost 2 full in game hours can be a real crimp on time.

It doesn't affect me, because I rarely play in outdoor combat roles anymore, however if it did, I would be infuriated too. Hopefully the coders have an idea.
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valeria

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Re: Stable time for mounts
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2017, 03:49:31 PM »
Think about it this way:

A-
There are 10 minutes an IG hour.

B-
There is 1) dusk, 2) late at night, 3) before dawn, and 4) dawn.

C-
Therfore, it logically follows that to be able to ride out at dawn, you have to stable your mount in the late afternoon (so it's stabled the entire dusk period), or you can't ride out until early morning.

My thoughts-
When I play hunters, I tend to come in at dusk, and ride out at dawn, so I understand the frustration. I think 20 or even 25 minutes would satisfy the purpose of the code (preventing immediate mount regen) without throwing normal people's schedules for a loop.

Lizzie

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Re: Stable time for mounts
« Reply #15 on: July 21, 2017, 03:53:08 PM »
Think about it this way:

A-
There are 10 minutes an IG hour.

B-
There is 1) dusk, 2) late at night, 3) before dawn, and 4) dawn.

C-
Therfore, it logically follows that to be able to ride out at dawn, you have to stable your mount in the late afternoon (so it's stabled the entire dusk period), or you can't ride out until early morning.

My thoughts-
When I play hunters, I tend to come in at dusk, and ride out at dawn, so I understand the frustration. I think 20 or even 25 minutes would satisfy the purpose of the code (preventing immediate mount regen) without throwing normal people's schedules for a loop.

Each of those timeframes is a 10-minute period of time. If you stable your mount at dusk, you might be stabling it within the first minute after the "chime" or within the tenth minute. If your mind is on the RP and not on your computer's clock, you will have to just hope for the best, OR just always add another 10 minutes onto the already 30-minute wait time JUST IN CASE. Because if you are only 20 SECONDS too soon - you will have to wait another 30 minutes.
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valeria

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Re: Stable time for mounts
« Reply #16 on: July 21, 2017, 03:54:28 PM »
Exactly.

Edit to add: that's why I said you'd have to stable at "late afternoon" to safely take it out at dawn. So it's in there a definite 30 minutes (dusk, late night, before dawn). Otherwise, if you stable at dusk, you can't safely take it out until early morning (so it's there from late night, before dawn, and dawn).
« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 03:57:34 PM by valeria »

Lizzie

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Re: Stable time for mounts
« Reply #17 on: July 21, 2017, 04:12:52 PM »
Exactly.

Edit to add: that's why I said you'd have to stable at "late afternoon" to safely take it out at dawn. So it's in there a definite 30 minutes (dusk, late night, before dawn). Otherwise, if you stable at dusk, you can't safely take it out until early morning (so it's there from late night, before dawn, and dawn).

That's why I don't like this particular iteration of the change, at all. Some of us only play for 2 hours total - to have to spend 1/4 of it waiting for your mount to rest - make playing someone who travels a less desireable option. Personally I prefer to rest my mount before it ever gets too tired to "need" stabling - but that isn't always possible (especially if you're in a group and someone else is leading).
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TheGoose

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Re: Stable time for mounts
« Reply #18 on: July 21, 2017, 04:47:03 PM »
Maybe have it tick up a 3rd of the total endurance pool every 10 minutes? Or just have them recover at a normal rate while in the stables, and have stables just function as a way for players to safely leave their mounts somewhere, and nothing else.

If we did the later, I'd say there'd be a case to be made for allowing packed mounts to be stored. Might be a good thing.

Armaddict

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Re: Stable time for mounts
« Reply #19 on: July 21, 2017, 05:04:35 PM »
Quote
If we did the later, I'd say there'd be a case to be made for allowing packed mounts to be stored. Might be a good thing.

I can be mistaken, but I believe this would require some serious legwork, codewise.  I don't know the specifics but the behavior with renting mounts and retrieving them leads me to believe it might be hard to attach the inventory to them.

As far as the rest of it...I'd always accepted it under the -assumption- that the original intent was to make cross-world travel less accessible and a bit more time-consuming/vulnerable.  With that in mind, I didn't think travel convenience was exactly the gist of it; if it was only to combat the 'rent kank;offer ticket' instant rest, then the delay would have been put far shorter to begin with, is my line of thought.  So thoughts like this:

Quote
Some of us only play for 2 hours total - to have to spend 1/4 of it waiting for your mount to rest - make playing someone who travels a less desireable option.

...are kind of in keeping with what I thought the original intent was.  That is, to make traveling a bit more of an ordeal, rather than a free-ranging I-can-go-anywhere-anytime thing.  That's all under that first assumption, though.

And no, that's not me picking on you, Lizzie, that's just me using it as the perfect statement of what I thought this change was likely put in to foster, which was multiple-day travel times and less convenience along free wandering.  If I'm wrong in that, whoops, I misinterpreted the change.

Edited to add:  Still good with partial resting if the time 'limit' isn't reached.  Just don't think the duration of it overall needs shortening.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 05:20:01 PM by Armaddict »
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Lizzie

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Re: Stable time for mounts
« Reply #20 on: July 21, 2017, 05:20:25 PM »
Yes it does encourage that Armaddict - but it also hm - here's a hypothetical, one that touches on what I'm talking about, that isn't far-fetched because something similar might have happened recently, or happens often, to either me or others (or both):

You're in the Byn. You're on contract to get someone from Allanak to Morin's. You get around halfway to Luir's, and you're ambushed by a pack of raptors. You have to retreat - or your contracted charge gets scared and retreats - and now you have to ride around in a sandstorm trying to find him. Meanwhile - your mounts are getting more and more tired - and then boom - you run into a pack of gith. You haven't even gotten to Luir's yet, and it's already been a RL hour since you left. It's almost dark, and your mounts are exhausted and too tired to make it to Luir's. So you camp out overnight in tents - which is great for you, not so great for the mounts. In the morning, you get up, and your mounts are all "tired" instead of "exhausted." So you know that even though you've been out for almost two RL hours, there's no way you're going to get your contract to Morins within a reasonable PLAYABLE amount of time.

This isn't a riding expedition, or an adventure, or exploration. This is just following an established trade route, half of which occurs on an actual coded road.

It should't take two RL days' worth of RPTs to do this, but by the time your mounts are finished with their half hour of stabling, it's almost late afternoon the next game-day, and too late to *start* out on the rest of the trip. So you now have to wait for a third hour. Which is great except - half your crew has to log out for the night in 20 minutes, and have already been logged in for at least the 2 hours to do this trip, plus however long they were logged in before they started the trip.

This is unreasonable. and it's not an unheard of situation to be in, and the new stable code makes this situation even more difficult.
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Nathvaan

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Re: Stable time for mounts
« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2017, 05:27:14 PM »
Thanks you for the ideas.  We are in discussion on how to balance this better.

Nathvaan

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Re: Stable time for mounts
« Reply #22 on: July 21, 2017, 05:31:50 PM »
You're in the Byn. You're on contract to get someone from Allanak to Morin's. You get around halfway to Luir's, and you're ambushed by a pack of raptors. You have to retreat - or your contracted charge gets scared and retreats - and now you have to ride around in a sandstorm trying to find him. Meanwhile - your mounts are getting more and more tired - and then boom - you run into a pack of gith. You haven't even gotten to Luir's yet, and it's already been a RL hour since you left. It's almost dark, and your mounts are exhausted and too tired to make it to Luir's. So you camp out overnight in tents - which is great for you, not so great for the mounts. In the morning, you get up, and your mounts are all "tired" instead of "exhausted." So you know that even though you've been out for almost two RL hours, there's no way you're going to get your contract to Morins within a reasonable PLAYABLE amount of time.

This isn't a riding expedition, or an adventure, or exploration. This is just following an established trade route, half of which occurs on an actual coded road.

It should't take two RL days' worth of RPTs to do this, but by the time your mounts are finished with their half hour of stabling, it's almost late afternoon the next game-day, and too late to *start* out on the rest of the trip. So you now have to wait for a third hour. Which is great except - half your crew has to log out for the night in 20 minutes, and have already been logged in for at least the 2 hours to do this trip, plus however long they were logged in before they started the trip.

This is unreasonable. and it's not an unheard of situation to be in, and the new stable code makes this situation even more difficult.

This kind of thing happens from time to time.  The weather messing up best laid plans isn't going to go away after all it's part of Armageddon's charm right?!

In my opinion, in this case the Byn would be on the hook to keep a set of fresh mounts in Luir's stable so they could, if they wanted to, pony-express their client up to the Grey.  That both solves the OOC timing issue while addressing the fact that you can't instant rest a mount by typing 'rent' then 'offer'.

That said, we are looking into a bit better balance than a flat 3 IC hours.  Thanks.

Riev

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Re: Stable time for mounts
« Reply #23 on: July 21, 2017, 05:45:39 PM »
ITT: T'zai Byn keeps a herd of Erdlu waiting in Luir's to Fast-track clients up to Morin's within an hour.
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Delirium

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Re: Stable time for mounts
« Reply #24 on: July 21, 2017, 05:49:38 PM »
I'd theorize it was more to prevent abuse of "respawning" mounts instantaneously more than anything else.

But only staff knows, so I'd hesitate to put words and intentions into their mouths.
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