Author Topic: Do you live in a bubble?  (Read 2842 times)

Melkor

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Re: Do you live in a bubble?
« Reply #25 on: July 18, 2017, 02:28:27 PM »
Is it?  Anyone got links to statistics?

"White Americans overall (non-Hispanic Whites together with White Hispanics) are projected to continue as the majority, at 73.1% (or 303 million out of 420 million) in 2050, from currently 77.1%."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_ethnicity_in_the_United_States#Racial_makeup_of_the_U.S._population



Anyone who denies that these "mainstream" American characteristics exist either do not understand basic, rudimentary statistics, or knowingly deny them.



Even the data from that survey puts the mean at 40, with the average middle-class and working-class scores (66 and 77) well towards the outside.



Put the information in this graphic along with the fact that the "mean of 40" that you quoted, being those who ACTUALLY TOOK THE TEST, and you can see where your logic took a misstep. How many of the 40+ million nascar fans do you think took this test?
« Last Edit: July 18, 2017, 02:32:00 PM by Melkor »
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Marauder Moe

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Re: Do you live in a bubble?
« Reply #26 on: July 18, 2017, 02:35:38 PM »
A fair point on that poll.  I see the author himself admits that it's a poor sampling.

I'm not denying that whites are a majority in America.  I'm questioning whether or not this "mainstream", outside-the-bubble, rural/working/whatever-class white American is actually a majority in America.

valeria

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Re: Do you live in a bubble?
« Reply #27 on: July 18, 2017, 02:40:59 PM »
54. And I grew up in a trailer park and live in rural nowheresville. So I kind of wonder.

Melkor

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Re: Do you live in a bubble?
« Reply #28 on: July 18, 2017, 02:46:08 PM »
A fair point on that poll.  I see the author himself admits that it's a poor sampling.

I'm not denying that whites are a majority in America.  I'm questioning whether or not this "mainstream", outside-the-bubble, rural/working/whatever-class white American is actually a majority in America.

... again, basic statistics.




At a current population of 77% white in the US, even if 100% of the Upper class (between 15 and 20% of the total population) was white, which it is not, that would still make white Americans the majority of the middle and low classes.

54. And I grew up in a trailer park and live in rural nowheresville. So I kind of wonder.

Wonder what? Class does not instantly denote shared culture. People vary.

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Marauder Moe

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Re: Do you live in a bubble?
« Reply #29 on: July 18, 2017, 02:53:49 PM »
But that's still not showing the breakout percentage of this "mainstream" group.  Lower class is not just poor white/rural, there's plenty of urban and minority lower class people that don't fit in your mainstream ideal.  Likewise, middle class is also split, since both you (outside the bubble) and me (inside) are part of it.

Melkor

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Re: Do you live in a bubble?
« Reply #30 on: July 18, 2017, 02:59:59 PM »
Indeed, this is true, however:

https://web.archive.org/web/20070104041530/http://pubdb3.census.gov/macro/032006/hhinc/new06_000.htm

A quick glance will show that the distribution is fairly consistent. The majority of each group, regardless of class, is white. Most of the poor in America are white. Most of the Middle class are white. Most of the rich are white.

Aaaand, seeing how the low-middle class are the vast majority of the US as a whole........

Yeah.


Now, regarding your point, there are many "breakout" figures from the other races which would apply to the "American Values" which I espouse. For instance, an anecdotal example: the majority of black people in my town hunt, go to church, go to the NHRA events, etc.

I contend that American Values are not decided by race or class, tbh.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2017, 03:03:33 PM by Melkor »
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Marauder Moe

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Re: Do you live in a bubble?
« Reply #31 on: July 18, 2017, 03:25:34 PM »
So, you've identified a group of by the metric "scores high on this bubble quiz".  (Though, I don't think we've established what counts as "high".

This quiz scores economic, cultural, and geographic patterns.  It also limits this group by a racial qualification.

I'm asking for evidence that this high-scoring group is actually a popular majority.  Economic statistics are a good step, though not very useful unless we have a breakpoint for inside the bubble and outside.  Is that point the poverty line?  National mean income?  75k?

Basically, if you exclude too many white people from "mainstream", then that group is not a majority.  If we take that 77% statistic (though it is debatable, as census qualifications for race have been futzed with over the decades), then if more than 25% of white people fall inside the bubble the rest of you are not a majority.

Melkor

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Re: Do you live in a bubble?
« Reply #32 on: July 18, 2017, 03:30:45 PM »
Where did you get "25% of white people" from?

It could not be from how the test was scored


which showed that outside the bubble, inside the mainstream, was middle-class and down, which is the majority of whites, and the majority of every other race, for that matter.

Off to work. Happy to pick this convo up tomorrow morning.
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The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.

Marauder Moe

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Re: Do you live in a bubble?
« Reply #33 on: July 18, 2017, 03:43:16 PM »
Where did you get "25% of white people" from?
A slight math error.  35%.

Drawing a straight line on upper-middle-class income excludes at least 15%.

So how many more get culled by cultural or geographic qualifications?  What counts as high on the quiz anyway?  42?  66?

valeria

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Re: Do you live in a bubble?
« Reply #34 on: July 18, 2017, 03:46:42 PM »
54. And I grew up in a trailer park and live in rural nowheresville. So I kind of wonder.

Wonder what? Class does not instantly denote shared culture. People vary.

Yeah, as a gay socialist about my only shared value with my neighbors are that we like hunting and fishing. You're not going to get a huge argument there from me.

But none of the questions were about my values, except maybe asking if I'm an evangelical christian! I am, however, a first generation middle class person with working class parents living in a rural area.

I probably don't have average TV watching habits, though.

Yam

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Re: Do you live in a bubble?
« Reply #35 on: July 18, 2017, 04:21:25 PM »
Where did you get "25% of white people" from?
A slight math error.  35%.

Drawing a straight line on upper-middle-class income excludes at least 15%.

So how many more get culled by cultural or geographic qualifications?  What counts as high on the quiz anyway?  42?  66?

I think the average PBS/NPR watcher can claim some street cred around 40. Below that you need to check your privilege, egghead.

I got a 49 for the record.

Refugee

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Re: Do you live in a bubble?
« Reply #36 on: July 18, 2017, 06:59:08 PM »
Mormons are Christian I think, and also evangelical technically, but I don't know if they'd consider themselves so.  Though they seem to have more ways to get to heaven than what falls under evangelism. 

I haven't paid attention in recent years but in the 90s you'd find Mormon books in the cults section in Christian Bookstores in Southern California.  So that shows you how the rest of the Christians viewed them, if that means anything at all.


Yam

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Re: Do you live in a bubble?
« Reply #37 on: July 18, 2017, 07:14:28 PM »
Mormons are Christian I think, and also evangelical technically, but I don't know if they'd consider themselves so.  Though they seem to have more ways to get to heaven than what falls under evangelism. 

Evangelical Christians =! Christians who evangelize. Mormons and scholars would consider Mormons to be Christians who evangelize, but not "Evangelical" or "Eastern Orthodox" or any other fairly well defined denomination.

Fathi

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Re: Do you live in a bubble?
« Reply #38 on: July 18, 2017, 07:24:17 PM »
Mormons do not consider themselves Evangelical Christians and indeed many Evangelical Christians consider Mormons more or less a cult.

Source: former sorta-Mormon, grew up in both Utah and backwoods California, religious sides of family hate each other.

Anyway, I got a 65.

This test is interesting if not especially nuanced. I grew up split between a tiny town in north-central California (sub-1000 population) and a slightly bigger failing industrial/railroad town in Utah. I suspect my score would have been even higher if they'd asked economic/privilege type bubble questions because everywhere I have ever lived as an adult, people have been amazed that I had childhood neighbours who still didn't have electricity and even one who still used an outhouse. I had no idea most people in America had phones in their houses until I was about 7 or 8.

This test sort of brushes up against it but I think class/poverty is a subject that often gets overlooked even in legit sociological literature when discussing cultural bubbles. I feel like I had more culture shock moving from a shit-poor rural town to an average lower-middle-class town despite the fact that everybody around me was still more or less white and Christian. The differences between rural and urban poverty are pretty extreme, too.
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Yam

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Re: Do you live in a bubble?
« Reply #39 on: July 18, 2017, 07:37:01 PM »
Uh that's bullshit because you are way higher class than me and I will eat you in the revolution. New Zealand is the San Francisco of Earth and you're bubble boy.


Fathi

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Re: Do you live in a bubble?
« Reply #40 on: July 18, 2017, 07:38:25 PM »
I'M A CAPITALIST SUCCESS STORY!
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Pale Horse

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Re: Do you live in a bubble?
« Reply #41 on: July 18, 2017, 07:45:46 PM »
As I think the only admittedly practicing member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints on the boards, I'll give my biased support to what Yam, Fathi and a few others have already posted.

Jumping off the derail and back onto the crazy train of this thread:

What "mainstream" culture is the article addressing, I wonder.  The idea of "American Mainstream" that we all like to think is common to all of us, certainly, but as was pointed out there is a wide  culture and societal gap across the socioeconomic spectrum.  There's also a large cultural gap across geography.  I do not share a common culture with someone from Alabama, California or New York.  My world view, values, ethics and mentality is too different despite some unifying practices which we may or may not share.

So what's the Mainstream?  New England mainstream?  Midwest mainstream?  Southern?  West Coast?


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Hauwke

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Re: Do you live in a bubble?
« Reply #42 on: July 18, 2017, 07:52:47 PM »
I got 42, but the test is designed for americans and the restaraunt question probably threw me off just a but considering I answered 0 for all of them.

Refugee

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Re: Do you live in a bubble?
« Reply #43 on: July 18, 2017, 07:54:28 PM »
When I was growing up, we had an outhouse for a good bit of my childhood.  I was a great big kid when I helped my dad put in a bathroom.  I had to lay the pipe under the floor because he was too broad-shouldered to fit, talk about sick...  We only had sponge baths from a bucket or dishpan, and in summer we would often bathe in the creek.  But baths were just for Saturday nights, so you would be clean for church in the morning.  The rest of the time we washed our hands and faces and that was it, except for teenagers who had many weird ways, including one or more baths/showers a day

We didn't have a TV most of the time.  We had a telephone but it was a party line shared with several other families.  All children were expected to labor alongside their parents and rarely had free time outside of school.  Everyone got a job as soon as they were old enough, so we could do teenage things like have a car and go to movies and buy more clothes.  When I was small, I'd get a couple of new outfits every year and one pair of shoes, which were only worn to school, and when they got holes in them they would be mended if possible and if not, then I wore them with the holes.  We considered ourselves firmly middle class because everyone around us was just the same, except the kids whose fathers worked in town at town jobs always had more things.  But we considered them beneath us somehow, and felt sorry for them.

One day in my junior year we had a substitute teacher for typing class, who came from some city somewhere up north.  Michigan I think.  She told us we were the poorest people she had ever seen.  We were outraged and insulted!  Until that moment I had never even conceived of myself as poor.  I still didn't believe it.  I knew poor people.  I knew families who had to carry their water for miles.  I knew a family that lived in the barn with their animals.  I knew kids with no fathers who had to work in the school cafeteria to get lunch.  I knew kids who didn't have the nickel every day for milk break.  But that wasn't us.  We had a sweet spring on our farm, and all the food you could ever want, even if it did get pretty repetative sometimes, and always I had a nickel for milk and a quarter for lunch.

I spent my adulthood in the computer business after Uncle Sam taught me electronics, and I lived in Silicon Valley and ski resorts and other yuppie places.  For a couple of years we even went over the bottom edge of "high income" but mostly we were upper middle class. 

So I've seen both sides of the class thing.  And it's different now.  People without much money, urban and rural, have been exploited by politicians/parties for their own gain, and taught to feel abused and resentful and angry.  They are not in any way, shape, or form better off or happier than we poor people were, and are brought up without the knowlege and belief that they can improve their condition on their own if they want to, it seems to me.










lostinspace

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Re: Do you live in a bubble?
« Reply #44 on: July 18, 2017, 07:57:48 PM »
I got a 35, I don't really understand what that means however, or what "live in a bubble" even means. What does a score of 35 even represent?
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James de Monet

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Re: Do you live in a bubble?
« Reply #45 on: July 18, 2017, 08:23:16 PM »
Mormons teach that the man Jesus of Nazareth was a god, and therefore some would say that they are "Christians", but from an orthodox  perspective, their 'formula' for salvation is actually incompatible with the Biblical 'formula', which is why mainstream Christianity styles the LDS a cult or sect, and not a denomination.
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SuchDragonWow

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Re: Do you live in a bubble?
« Reply #46 on: July 18, 2017, 08:42:20 PM »
I thought, based on the questions, this test was to determine if you grew up a hick.  Why else would you know the difference between Jimmie and Jimmy Johnson?  Kudos if you thought it was a sandwich shop.  I confess to not understanding this newfangled bubble, but I live in a city of a million that's 1/3 black, and a lot of them give me mean looks.  Please advise.
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BadSkeelz

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Re: Do you live in a bubble?
« Reply #47 on: July 18, 2017, 08:47:35 PM »
I thought, based on the questions, this test was to determine if you grew up a hick.  Why else would you know the difference between Jimmie and Jimmy Johnson?  Kudos if you thought it was a sandwich shop.  I confess to not understanding this newfangled bubble, but I live in a city of a million that's 1/3 black, and a lot of them give me mean looks.  Please advise.

According to the study's author, Charles Murray, blacks are too cognitively inferior to do anything so you're probably safe to ignore them.

Seriously the author sounds like kind of an asshole and I'm rather suspect of this whole quiz.
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Sayyadina

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Re: Do you live in a bubble?
« Reply #48 on: July 18, 2017, 09:06:21 PM »
According to the study's author, Charles Murray, blacks are too cognitively inferior to do anything so you're probably safe to ignore them.

Seriously the author sounds like kind of an asshole and I'm rather suspect of this whole quiz.

This.

Charles Murray is a favorite of the right wing that is upset that WASP manly men no longer get 100% of the the privileges in this country. Scoring high on the quiz means that you probably (but not necessarily!) belong to that same tribe. This thread's OP views that tribal membership as a badge of honor, I guess?

edit: BadSkeelz is right, scoring high puts you in the #MAGA demographic
« Last Edit: July 19, 2017, 08:16:35 AM by Sayyadina »
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BadSkeelz

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Re: Do you live in a bubble?
« Reply #49 on: July 18, 2017, 09:20:41 PM »
Actually I think you want to score high on the quiz to be part of the proper bubble. Though maybe I'm wrong. I am a WASP manly man, at least in testosterone and prejudice levels, and currently have the lowest score on the board.
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