Author Topic: Game of Thrones Season 7  (Read 5691 times)

Malken

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 7
« Reply #50 on: July 24, 2017, 12:15:13 PM »
Greyworm is going to die in the battle for Casterly Rock, it is known.
“When I was a fighting man, the kettle-drums they beat;
The people scattered gold-dust before my horse’s feet;
But now I am a great king, the people hound my track
With poison in my wine-cup, and daggers at my back.”

Refugee

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 7
« Reply #51 on: July 24, 2017, 12:25:38 PM »
Yep. This is me. Plus the greyscale to pot pie transition making me giggle disgustedly.

I laughed at it too.

I was glad for Greyworm and whatshername!  But now he will die, no doubt.  She'll blame herself for distracting him from his unsullied perfect warrior thing.

MeTekillot

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 7
« Reply #52 on: July 24, 2017, 01:12:06 PM »
"Why do you think jon snow important"

Completely does not mention bringing him back from the dead
Where have you buried the body, MeTekillot?

boog

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BadSkeelz

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 7
« Reply #54 on: July 24, 2017, 01:56:02 PM »
Yep. This is me. Plus the greyscale to pot pie transition making me giggle disgustedly.

I laughed at it too.

I was glad for Greyworm and whatshername!  But now he will die, no doubt.  She'll blame herself for distracting him from his unsullied perfect warrior thing.

Considering we've had two episodes in a row with direct cuts like that, I think one of the writers is rebelling against Martin's food porn addiction by showing us that Westerosi cuisine looks exactly like bodily waste.

Also on basis of the Grey Worm analysis I now have a $5 bet that he does not survive this season.
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boog

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 7
« Reply #55 on: July 24, 2017, 02:50:17 PM »
If I were Danny, I'd be listening to Olenna. She's survived how long? Also, the ignoring clever men bit made me laugh -- it's advice every woman everywhere should take to heart.
Case: he's more likely to shoot up a mcdonalds for selling secret obama sauce on its big macs
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BadSkeelz: Whatever you say, Kim Jong Boog
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Malken

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 7
« Reply #56 on: July 24, 2017, 03:32:40 PM »
If I were Danny, I'd be listening to Olenna. She's survived how long? Also, the ignoring clever men bit made me laugh -- it's advice every woman everywhere should take to heart.

One of my favorite story about Olenna's youth -

"In her youth, Olenna Redwyne was engaged to a member of House Targaryen, as it was "all the rage" at the time; it was her sister Viola to whom Luthor Tyrell was expected to marry. The night before Luthor was to propose to Viola, Olenna snuck into his chamber and seduced him, leaving him "unable to walk downstairs" the next day to propose to Viola. Olenna did this because the thought of marrying a Targaryen and his "ludicrous silver hair" did not appeal to her."
“When I was a fighting man, the kettle-drums they beat;
The people scattered gold-dust before my horse’s feet;
But now I am a great king, the people hound my track
With poison in my wine-cup, and daggers at my back.”

lordcooper

  • Posts: 7838
Re: Game of Thrones Season 7
« Reply #57 on: July 24, 2017, 03:49:07 PM »
Considering we've had two episodes in a row with direct cuts like that, I think one of the writers is rebelling against Martin's food porn addiction by showing us that Westerosi cuisine looks exactly like bodily waste.

I'd be amazed if GRRM didn't go the same route.  The sumptuous food of the summer is likely detailed so much to provide a stark (sorry) contrast to that of the winter.
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Melkor

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 7
« Reply #58 on: July 24, 2017, 05:20:12 PM »
Favorite GoT characters in ascending order:

3) Arya Stark. A beast since episode 1.

2) Podrick Payne. The Cocksmith of Westeros, who killed a knight as a Squire.

1) Hot Pie. In a land where people die of the cold, war, and starvation, this dude is Warm, Safe, AND FAT. He's gonna ride out the long winter in styleeee.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2017, 08:11:45 PM by Melkor »
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.

Delirium

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 7
« Reply #59 on: July 24, 2017, 07:17:26 PM »
If I were Danny, I'd be listening to Olenna. She's survived how long?

Seriously. Heck, even when I was reading the books I was like USE YOUR DAMN DRAGONS DANY

She got as far as she did by using her dragons, and then she chickened out and started spinning her wheels.
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boog

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 7
« Reply #60 on: July 25, 2017, 11:02:59 PM »
Case: he's more likely to shoot up a mcdonalds for selling secret obama sauce on its big macs
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BadSkeelz: Whatever you say, Kim Jong Boog
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BadSkeelz

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 7
« Reply #61 on: July 25, 2017, 11:14:10 PM »
"Euron Greyjoy won because he wore armor, and had a big fucking axe."

~Sandor Clegane, wisest man in Westeros
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boog

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 7
« Reply #62 on: July 25, 2017, 11:17:06 PM »
"Euron Greyjoy won because he wore armor, and had a big fucking axe."

~Sandor Clegane, wisest man in Westeros

And also my boyfriend.

Sandor. Not fucking Euron.
Case: he's more likely to shoot up a mcdonalds for selling secret obama sauce on its big macs
Kismet: didn't see you in GQ homey
BadSkeelz: Whatever you say, Kim Jong Boog
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Synthesis

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 7
« Reply #63 on: July 26, 2017, 05:02:24 AM »
That whole thing irritated me.

How does one enemy flagship run into another enemy flagship in the middle of two giant armadas with a complete element of surprise and no alarm being raised?  The idea that whatever-her-name Greyjoy would be so completely tactically inept is incompatible with the idea that she's some sort of pirate-ish queen.  There is literally no way that fight would have happened.  Skirmisher vessels would've been fighting each other for hours before the flagships got anywhere near each other, and if whatever-her-name Greyjoy's armada was losing that badly, she either a) wouldn't have been belowdecks flirting with some landlubbers and/or b) would've been hauling ass back to Danerys to let them know the jig was up.  There is no fucking way she would allow her ship with the representatives of two of the most powerful elements of the strategy (herself and the Dornish queen) to get anywhere near being boarded.  The whole thing was preposterous.
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Delirium

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 7
« Reply #64 on: July 26, 2017, 08:32:59 AM »
Yeah it was dumb.
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Veselka

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 7
« Reply #65 on: July 26, 2017, 10:34:14 AM »
That whole thing irritated me.

How does one enemy flagship run into another enemy flagship in the middle of two giant armadas with a complete element of surprise and no alarm being raised?  The idea that whatever-her-name Greyjoy would be so completely tactically inept is incompatible with the idea that she's some sort of pirate-ish queen.  There is literally no way that fight would have happened.  Skirmisher vessels would've been fighting each other for hours before the flagships got anywhere near each other, and if whatever-her-name Greyjoy's armada was losing that badly, she either a) wouldn't have been belowdecks flirting with some landlubbers and/or b) would've been hauling ass back to Danerys to let them know the jig was up.  There is no fucking way she would allow her ship with the representatives of two of the most powerful elements of the strategy (herself and the Dornish queen) to get anywhere near being boarded.  The whole thing was preposterous.

Perfectly summed up. It seems like the show runners skimped on research for large scale naval battles. Black water seemed much more visceral. This seemed fantastical in all the wrong ways.

Malken

  • Posts: 9024
Re: Game of Thrones Season 7
« Reply #66 on: July 26, 2017, 11:10:09 AM »
This isn't my post but it's the best explanation I read about that scene so far:

This is my take on it, which I'm basing on following clues:
  • Euron first showed up to kill Balon during a storm
  • There was a storm at Dragonstone in the beginning of the episode. And we could see lightening in the background during Euron's attack.
  • Yara's flagship was much smaller than Euron's Silence.

Here's my theory, starting with Euron:

Euron hides himself in the storm. A typical Iron Islander worships the Drowned God whose eternal enemy is the Storm God who sends treacherous winds to lead them astray and drown their ships. This myth makes sense because of their naval culture - only a madman would willingly sail into a storm where he can lose his ship and his crew. And Euron is that madman. In his travels, he learned how to expertly navigate through the storms and use them to his advantage. No Iron Islander would go into a storm to look for him and he can use it to hide his movements.
Let's take Yara's movements. A storm recently passed over Dragonstone. I believe this storm is moving south - towards the aptly named Stormlands. Yara decides to depart in its aftermath - when she feels its safer. Naval battle isn't her goal - her goal is picking up the Dornish army and delivering them to King's Landing. So she is using small, fast ships capable of outrunning anyone giving chase and there is a storm ahead of her clearing the way. If there is any excess weight - like ballistae or catapults - she sheds them to go faster.

Also, let's say that despite her inexperience in actual naval battles, she has atleast read and learned about them. So she takes some sensible precautions. She has scout ships to the east and north to warn her of any following enemy. But she is headed south and to her south and west, there is a storm raging - and she doesn't want to lose any scout ships to it. As she moves south and catches up to the storm, she moves her ships in a tight formation so that they can move to avoid the storm if it turns.

So, on the fateful night, Yara is prepared to run from any naval battle - but with her scouts in 2 directions and the storm in another, she feels quite confident that there is no enemy around and she let's her guard down to party. And she has no idea who's waiting for her.

Now let's take Euron's movements. I don't think he had a clear plan or a "gift" in mind. He seems like the type of guy to play it by the ear. Initially, his plan might've been to attack Dany and figure out what the gift should be. Also, let's assume he doesn't have a spy in Dany's camp. Because if that's what he was relying on, how would that spy even get a message to him? Luckily he finds a storm on the way and decides to hide in it while he observe enemy movement.

Now here's something he'd realize - despite his prowess at sea, the dragons are still superior. If he faces off against Dany, her dragons would burn his ships. But dragons have a weakness - they can't fly well in storms. So he decides to hide in the storm and see what happens. Maybe Dany attacks King's Landing and he can attack her fleet from behind. Or maybe she moves south for a stronghold in mainland. Either way, Euron decides to move South slowly with the storm.
While he is hiding, his scout ships spot Yara's fleet approaching in a tight formation. He can hardly believe his luck. And unlike Yara, he came fully prepared for a battle. He has all the naval artillery he needs. So he takes his fleet right at the edge of the storm, where there are clouds and fog, he puts out all the lights and waits for Yara sail into his trap.

He could've just hidden there and rained fire on Yara's fleet - but he wants his prize. So while the rest of his ships keep up the indiscriminate long range attack, he leads his own flagship to ram Yara's and boards her. Another stroke of luck - all the good eggs are in the same basket.
And he fights this battle like a madman. Even though his own ship is in the line of fire, his fleet keeps firing. And the fireballs keep raining even with him in the thick of it. And Yara had no time to react or command a full retreat. For her, it was over before it began.

TL;DR
Yara's job was transport, not naval battle - so she was prepared to run at the first sight of trouble. However, she felt there would be no trouble because there were no enemies behind her and only a storm ahead of her - and only a madman would sail through the storm. Unfortunately for her, Euron is that madman. He came prepared for a battle and he used the storm to hide and lay a trap for his niece. One that she walked right into.
“When I was a fighting man, the kettle-drums they beat;
The people scattered gold-dust before my horse’s feet;
But now I am a great king, the people hound my track
With poison in my wine-cup, and daggers at my back.”

Synthesis

  • Posts: 9384
Re: Game of Thrones Season 7
« Reply #67 on: July 26, 2017, 11:31:42 AM »
There is no way you can square that circle, man.

No naval flagship in the history of naval flagships has ever been left sitting wide open, ready for any old other ship to just sail up to it and board completely by surprise.  Scouts are one thing:  fine.  However, you don't sit there with 2 queens on board a damn boat in the ocean in the middle of a 3-way war without a shitload of escort vessels.  Wouldn't happen.  Totally unbelievable.  Sad.

I just chalk it up to lazy writing and budget concerns.  It's the horror movie trope where you get the jump scare right as the sex scene is heating up, and they didn't want to shell out CGI and prop bucks on developing a realistic naval battle.
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Veselka

  • Posts: 179
Re: Game of Thrones Season 7
« Reply #68 on: July 26, 2017, 01:05:24 PM »
There is no way you can square that circle, man.

No naval flagship in the history of naval flagships has ever been left sitting wide open, ready for any old other ship to just sail up to it and board completely by surprise.  Scouts are one thing:  fine.  However, you don't sit there with 2 queens on board a damn boat in the ocean in the middle of a 3-way war without a shitload of escort vessels.  Wouldn't happen.  Totally unbelievable.  Sad.

I just chalk it up to lazy writing and budget concerns.  It's the horror movie trope where you get the jump scare right as the sex scene is heating up, and they didn't want to shell out CGI and prop bucks on developing a realistic naval battle.

I think it's most likely this, not wanting to spend big bucks on this particular battle. I imagine there are much crazier, more detailed battles ahead, and they needed this to happen for the sake of story, but couldn't come up with a realistic way to portray it, so they just fudged it.

whitt

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 7
« Reply #69 on: July 26, 2017, 01:12:40 PM »
I think it's most likely this, not wanting to spend big bucks on this particular battle. I imagine there are much crazier, more detailed battles ahead, and they needed this to happen for the sake of story, but couldn't come up with a realistic way to portray it, so they just fudged it.

I feel like this whole season is on fast forward.  Basically, they have seven episodes to complete two seasons worth of story.  So everything just gets put into snippets that resolve story they don't have time to complete properly.  Not a soul on Dragonstone when Dany lands.  This naval battle (does anyone who hasn't read the books really know who Euron is?).  The Deus ex Old Town of Sam Tarly finding all the answers to all the questions on two pages of a massive tome in a massive library.  Torgun and the Wildings will likely be sent off in a battle as epic as this naval fight.  Five minutes of snow and wind followed by five minutes of confuse-o-vision combat.
It's a great series.  It just seems like they've decided to push the fast forward button just when the good stuff should be happening.
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Veselka

  • Posts: 179
Re: Game of Thrones Season 7
« Reply #70 on: July 26, 2017, 01:33:27 PM »
I think it's most likely this, not wanting to spend big bucks on this particular battle. I imagine there are much crazier, more detailed battles ahead, and they needed this to happen for the sake of story, but couldn't come up with a realistic way to portray it, so they just fudged it.

I feel like this whole season is on fast forward.  Basically, they have seven episodes to complete two seasons worth of story.  So everything just gets put into snippets that resolve story they don't have time to complete properly.  Not a soul on Dragonstone when Dany lands.  This naval battle (does anyone who hasn't read the books really know who Euron is?).  The Deus ex Old Town of Sam Tarly finding all the answers to all the questions on two pages of a massive tome in a massive library.  Torgun and the Wildings will likely be sent off in a battle as epic as this naval fight.  Five minutes of snow and wind followed by five minutes of confuse-o-vision combat.
It's a great series.  It just seems like they've decided to push the fast forward button just when the good stuff should be happening.

Yeah, exactly! It seems like this is the juiciest stuff, that we've waited so long to get to, and we're just going to be watching it on FF.

Is Friday

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 7
« Reply #71 on: July 28, 2017, 08:14:42 AM »
Goddamnit Synthesis it was a perfectly good episode until you ruined it.
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BadSkeelz

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 7
« Reply #72 on: July 28, 2017, 02:33:02 PM »
God help him if he's ever seen the 300 sequel and how that depicts naval combat.

I give Euron's antics a pass because it's TV, just like the Battle of the Bastards didn't make a lot of tactical sense, but it's instances like this where if the show did a better job of pacing and providing information it could save itself from criticism. As far as I know, the show hasn't implied that Euron is a sorcerer but a detail like that could help excuse plotholes like how he found Yara's ship in a storm.

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Melkor

  • Posts: 827
Re: Game of Thrones Season 7
« Reply #73 on: July 28, 2017, 03:22:22 PM »
What, pirate magicks?
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.

chrisdcoulombe

  • Posts: 1005
Re: Game of Thrones Season 7
« Reply #74 on: July 28, 2017, 04:30:27 PM »
The night is dark and full of terrors.
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