Author Topic: The Way  (Read 1930 times)

nauta

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The Way
« on: June 20, 2017, 10:28:05 AM »
Motivation: I'll be honest, but I don't want to poison the well on this discussion, but I find the current way the Unseen Way works as something that inhibits RP opportunities more than it facilitates them.

Here are instances where unbridled use of Way (the current system) makes really good sense:

a) Hooking new players up to clan leadership.
b) Herding PCs during a clan RPT (e.g., a Byn outing).

Here are instances where unbridled use of Way (the current system) eliminates RP:

i) Waying with someone else at the bar.
ii) It lessens the need for messengers, e.g., aide roles, hiring someone to deliver a message from Allanak to Luir's, etc.
iii) Raiding: this is well-documented; it doesn't eliminate RP per se, but it does change how a raiding scenario goes down in Armageddon.

A lot of this is old stuff.  Here are three proposals (they could be combined):

A. Block the use of Way while in the same room with someone else.

B. Limit the use of Way to/from clan leadership only.  (Or have some other other system for handling (a) and (b) above, e.g., a temporary clan channel, a temporary newbie channel.)

C. Add some automatic hemote ever X 'psi' commands entered, e.g., ((The man's eyes go a bit distant a moment.))  (This would at least eliminate those cases where players don't bother to do anything but way.)

The ultimate goal is to facilitate more RP opportunities, more interaction opportunities; we'd draw merchants out of compounds to have face-to-face meetings with clients; we'd encourage more talking or whispering at the public gathering places; we'd encourage more clandestine meetings for exchanging information; etc.
as IF you didn't just have them unconscious, naked, and helpless in the street 4 minutes ago

Tisiphone

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Re: The Way
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2017, 10:41:38 AM »
There's one great use of the Way as it is now that I haven't really seen mentioned in these discussions, so I'll mention it here.

I'm a long-lived PC with an established role I want to stick to. Say I'm a Templar. I'm also bored. Not necessarily with the role, but at least at the moment, and somewhat often. Maybe I'm off-peakish. Maybe I'm restricted by my role, either permanently or temporarily.

The Way, as it is now, allows me to reach out and be friends/enemies/frenemies with people with whom I wouldn't normally get a chance to interact at all. (In the example of me being a templar, maybe a templar from another city-state. Or a desert elf.) This is good because, without that interaction, I'd just go play KSP/XCOM/whatever the kids are doing these days.

This is good for the game because it keeps me logging in to be influential in those times when I am able to be, and it keeps interest in these sorts of roles alive, which reduces turnover.

(There are also problems with this, of course, but those have been amply expanded upon elsewhere.)

I have no problem with changes to the Way. I agree that it can and does hurt the game in a lot of cases. However, I think that this case is important to keep in mind for any proposed changes.
There is no general doctrine which is not capable of eating out our morality if unchecked by the deep-seated habit of direct fellow-feeling with individual fellow-men. -George Eliot

Delirium

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Re: The Way
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2017, 10:43:07 AM »
Clearly OP has never tried to run a decently sized and active clan witbout liberal use of the Way. :-X

Also Tisiphone has a great point about alleviating isolation.
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Lizzie

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Re: The Way
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2017, 07:27:45 PM »
I'm guessing Nauta hasn't ever, or forgotten about, being at a gathering of PCs - with just a couple of people her PC was friendly with. And everyone else is saying/doing xyz, and your character is nodding and smiling and pretending to be enjoying herself - while over in the Way, she's being a catty little bitch (I'll keep saying it on the GDB even if I can't say it in game, nya) with her gal-pal who is sitting right next to her at the table. They're sharing their favorite insults against everyone else in the room with each other and having a grand ole time of it.

Meanwhile - at the next table, the secret mindbender...

And it turns into a lovely involved, complicated, and even sometimes convoluted plot.

I'm fine with the Way being used however it's currently being used, for many many reasons.
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Fathi

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Re: The Way
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2017, 07:51:20 PM »
Waying people, even if you're in the same room as them, is roleplay. If I Way someone, be it a person in the same room or across the city or across the Known, I'm roleplaying with them and we're creating roleplay. Just because you say it isn't roleplay doesn't mean it isn't.

Feel free to talk about how it isn't the kind of roleplay you like, but it's still roleplay.
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Share the same space for a minute or two

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BadSkeelz

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Re: The Way
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2017, 08:19:29 PM »
Authentic Way-only same-table Zalanthan conversation



This is how silly you look.

I still think it looks silly to use The Way in face-to-face communication. Maybe its right for the gameworld but I just can't imagine it setting quite so atmospheric a scene.
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Chettaman

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Re: The Way
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2017, 12:46:46 AM »
Increase difficulty of the way given how ''busy'' the room is.
quiet rooms make it easy to use the way.

being attacked or being around drawn weapons makes the way harder to use.
HARDER. not impossible.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2017, 01:22:01 AM by Chettaman »
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Synthesis

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Re: The Way
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2017, 04:39:39 AM »
If anything, psionics need to be expanded to improve playability.

#mobiledevicepsionicmessaging
#psionicinbox
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manipura

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Re: The Way
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2017, 08:59:57 PM »
A. How do I even start to justify the fact that I can't Way someone who is sitting beside me in a quiet room, but I can Way someone literally across the world?
B. How do I even start to explain why I could Way you last week about an unfinished craft order, but this week, right after I'm demoted, I can't Way you at all?
C. I've seen plenty of good emotes from players who are Waying, I don't think a default echo is necessary and I don't think it would add to anything.
 
I've had countless interactions that have been Way conversations (often in the same room) that were absolutely roleplaying and were extremely entertaining.
I agree with Fathi here, just because something isn't the RP you prefer doesn't mean it isn't RP.

Miradus

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Re: The Way
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2017, 09:19:23 PM »

I dislike the Way. I dislike how it's used to keep people from using their listen skill. I dislike how instead of someone walking out of their safe clan compound behind 3 guards and 8 locked doors where I can kill them, they'll just Way all their interactions and literally not move from their chair for a RL week.

But I also have used it enough to know now that, despite those factors, the game plots would grind to an absolute halt without it.

Chettaman

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Re: The Way
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2017, 04:23:18 AM »

A. How do I even start to justify the fact that I can't Way someone who is sitting beside me in a quiet room, but I can Way someone literally across the world?
-- Because in a busy room you would also have difficulty in using the way across the world.
-- Someone sitting beside you would be much easier than across the world. I don't think it needs to be dramatically changed when you're in the same room as someone else. Distance, as mentioned in the docs should affect it, however. I don't really notice that difference in distance now.
-- I don't think it needs to be upended, but I think it would be terrifying to come out of combat with a raider, flee three rooms, contact someone and it takes 50 of your 100 stun and now you can risk sending a psi and being at near passing out or not doing it at all. -- or. You could just give the guy all your stuff or die like the nice man with the axe said in the first place.
++or what if instead of making it more difficult, stress did the ''language'' code thing and made it more difficult to read?

B. How do I even start to explain why I could Way you last week about an unfinished craft order, but this week, right after I'm demoted, I can't Way you at all?
-- good question.

C. I've seen plenty of good emotes from players who are Waying, I don't think a default echo is necessary and I don't think it would add to anything.
-- I was thinking I'd like to see like someone straining every once in a while, but I guess being annoyed by the person at the bar who doesn't say anything just a thing we can get over.


====
I like psionics. I also think they should be expanded upon. Right now, psionics are really easy to use. Which makes sense... if we we're all humanoid bug people. It's just... whenever I do a meeting with someone I do it in person for giggles. I really don't have to. I really don't ever have to. It's even more inconvenient. I really shouldn't. But I do...
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Miradus

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Re: The Way
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2017, 09:32:42 AM »

For fun, be the guy whose lips move while he Ways.

Or be like me, and prone to Waying what I was trying to say and saying out loud what I was trying to Way.


FantasyWriter

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Re: The Way
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2017, 09:36:39 AM »

For fun, be the guy whose lips move while he Ways.

Or be like me, and prone to Waying what I was trying to say and saying out loud what I was trying to Way.

Haha, I don't eve have to try to do this. Happens all the time.
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Grebber - One who grebs.

solera

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Re: The Way
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2017, 03:07:59 PM »
More mindbenders, not less.  ;)

Refugee

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Re: The Way
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2017, 03:16:48 PM »
I prefer the Way continue to operate as it does re: being in a room with someone.  It's great fun to sit talking shit about someone with your friend/lord/employer while you are both very polite and genial to their face.  It is absolutely valid RP.  I've planned several murders this way.  There's appropriate risk of being caught out by a mindworm. 

Please don't nerf the Way.  It's often the most RP you can find these days.




FantasyWriter

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Re: The Way
« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2017, 03:29:40 PM »
Please don't nerf the Way.  It's often the most RP you can find these days.
Greb - To scavenge, forage, and if Whira is with you, loot the dead.
Grebber - One who grebs.

Chettaman

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Re: The Way
« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2017, 08:56:37 PM »
What about message length?

What if message length affected how much stun was lost?
« Last Edit: June 27, 2017, 01:46:45 AM by Chettaman »
Live like God.

"Don't let life be your burden."
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FantasyWriter

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Re: The Way
« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2017, 09:18:12 PM »
I actually like that one.
One of the disadvantages to everyone starting with master contact, it doesn't seem to be very risky or at east costly in the way that it use to to send virtually undetectable private messages to each other.
Greb - To scavenge, forage, and if Whira is with you, loot the dead.
Grebber - One who grebs.

chrisdcoulombe

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Re: The Way
« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2017, 01:05:45 PM »
You say No way I say Way.

If you are a busy person in game, even master contact can feel limited. 
If only Leaders could way how would your subordinates let you know if they got the message?
People should give clues that they are waying and who they are waying if they are sitting next to each other. That doesn't mean anyone else, barring the mind worm, gets to hear what you are waying.  You know what I'm saying?   
Also you get into the grey area of what exactly defines a leader PC.    I play an indie most of the time, when exactly am I allowed to start waying people? 
I agree with Synthesis
If anything, psionics need to be expanded to improve playability.

#mobiledevicepsionicmessaging
#psionicinbox
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Chettaman

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Re: The Way
« Reply #19 on: June 27, 2017, 01:31:28 PM »
I don't really like this idea, but what if you needed a specific, consumable item that allowed you to tap into your psionic ability to contact and maybe it only lasted for so long?
Live like God.

"Don't let life be your burden."
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Dar

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Re: The Way
« Reply #20 on: June 27, 2017, 01:40:45 PM »
scheduling is already difficult as it is. While the use of the way removes 'some rp possibilities', the lack, or complexity of it removes an unplayable amount of it.

I can get behind the idea that every time you use the way, there is a small chance of hemoting out concentration, whether you want to, or not.

Riev

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Re: The Way
« Reply #21 on: June 27, 2017, 02:22:07 PM »
I'm down for an hemote chance on every Way, some physically noticeable issue that is present on all non-psions (though the psion could probably just hemote it themselves to throw off suspicion).

While I think Psionic Pagers would be ABSOLUTELY AWESOME, even if coded in properly, it would turn the game into an email service. Logged in, getting 12 voicemails about "someone broke into my apartment" and "I saw them kissing!" would just turn it more into work than anything else. That said, when you can't find Leader PCs nor underlings to pass along messages, it can be incredibly frustrating.
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Chettaman

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Re: The Way
« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2017, 03:23:22 PM »
I was thinking something like,
>contact dood
You suffer from use of the way.
You find it difficult to find their mind without a greater connection.

>drink cactus.juice
You feel your connection to the unseen way strengthen.

>contact dood
you suffer from the use of the way.
You contact the tall muscular dood.

and it lasts for however long.
Live like God.

"Don't let life be your burden."
- Some guy, Twin Warriors

FantasyWriter

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Re: The Way
« Reply #23 on: June 27, 2017, 03:26:57 PM »
>sniff spice

Or wisdom.
Wisdom becomes the new agility.
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Grebber - One who grebs.

tapas

  • Posts: 139
Re: The Way
« Reply #24 on: June 28, 2017, 12:54:26 AM »
Make it less secure? Make it so mundanes can listen in on your telepathic vpn service?

That would solve most of the problems and add needed risk to funneling all your secret information through it.

But I guess players like to plan their murders while having a happy smiley time with their victims.