Author Topic: The Game is the Game. The GDB is the GDB.  (Read 4174 times)

Asche

  • Posts: 84
Re: The Game is the Game. The GDB is the GDB.
« Reply #75 on: June 25, 2017, 10:21:26 PM »
I want as many people actively angry as possible.
What causes you to have a bias for action and want to incite change does not equate to what others would like in order to be inspired for change. Some folks will just choose to not be involved in a bitter and angry mob mentality.

So while I empathize with your passion--your desired result is unlikely by trying to "rile up the crowd".

How's their preferred method been working?

Refugee

  • Posts: 1655
Re: The Game is the Game. The GDB is the GDB.
« Reply #76 on: June 25, 2017, 10:28:08 PM »
Getting everyone "angry" isn't a good goal for this particular situation. 

In many situations, it is.  Almost exclusively when you are dealing with people who are paid to do whatever it is you're upset about.

Having been a volunteer in everything from Cub Scouts to Little League to large dog rescue organizations to staffing a MUD...angry is not how you work anything out with -volunteers-.  Either players or staff, either one.  (Players are as much volunteers as staff, and without either one the game is dead.)

Unlike paid workers, volunteers can find another outlet for their time at will, and they will if they are mistreated or not valued.

Adults should be able to discuss things passionately without losing their temper, and especially without disrespecting each other.  When the angry words start, the discussion becomes about who can win the fight, not about coming to some reasonable resolution to whatever it was about in the beginning.

We don't want to be angry with each other.  We want to be more like a team working toward making the game better.


Is Friday

  • Posts: 6265
Re: The Game is the Game. The GDB is the GDB.
« Reply #77 on: June 25, 2017, 10:42:25 PM »
I want as many people actively angry as possible.
What causes you to have a bias for action and want to incite change does not equate to what others would like in order to be inspired for change. Some folks will just choose to not be involved in a bitter and angry mob mentality.

So while I empathize with your passion--your desired result is unlikely by trying to "rile up the crowd".

How's their preferred method been working?
I think it works just fine if you aren't coloring your viewpoint with confirmation bias and can accept intermittent mistakes or missteps without claiming "the end of days is nigh".
Quote from: shadowspeak discord
did you just meet a ridiculously unfuckable psychotic female character? It's 75% likely that Is_Friday is playing it! unfuckable, unwantable, unloveable, poorly played, stereotype-driven, abusive, and shallow!

Asche

  • Posts: 84
Re: The Game is the Game. The GDB is the GDB.
« Reply #78 on: June 25, 2017, 10:50:05 PM »
I want as many people actively angry as possible.
What causes you to have a bias for action and want to incite change does not equate to what others would like in order to be inspired for change. Some folks will just choose to not be involved in a bitter and angry mob mentality.

So while I empathize with your passion--your desired result is unlikely by trying to "rile up the crowd".

How's their preferred method been working?
I think it works just fine if you aren't coloring your viewpoint with confirmation bias and can accept intermittent mistakes or missteps without claiming "the end of days is nigh".

If by 'confirmation bias' you mean 'measurably declining player base' and by 'intermittent' you mean 'frequently,' then yes. But hey, maybe you're right. Maybe what we really need to stoke change is MORE OF THE SAME.

Is Friday

  • Posts: 6265
Re: The Game is the Game. The GDB is the GDB.
« Reply #79 on: June 25, 2017, 11:12:01 PM »
I want as many people actively angry as possible.
What causes you to have a bias for action and want to incite change does not equate to what others would like in order to be inspired for change. Some folks will just choose to not be involved in a bitter and angry mob mentality.

So while I empathize with your passion--your desired result is unlikely by trying to "rile up the crowd".

How's their preferred method been working?
I think it works just fine if you aren't coloring your viewpoint with confirmation bias and can accept intermittent mistakes or missteps without claiming "the end of days is nigh".

If by 'confirmation bias' you mean 'measurably declining player base' and by 'intermittent' you mean 'frequently,' then yes. But hey, maybe you're right. Maybe what we really need to stoke change is MORE OF THE SAME.

I looked back at your earlier posts in the thread to try unraveling your point. I think you have a point and would be surprised at the members who would agree with your point. But you're burying it in replies of snarky comments and generally hattery.

I strongly suggest you create a discussion thread with something along the theme of "Should staff adjust their policy of accountability?"

You'd get more mileage out of that than the route you're going, imo.

If you're not interested in providing discussion on the GDB or stirring change through discussion... then I'd ask you: Why are you posting on a discussion board at all?
Quote from: shadowspeak discord
did you just meet a ridiculously unfuckable psychotic female character? It's 75% likely that Is_Friday is playing it! unfuckable, unwantable, unloveable, poorly played, stereotype-driven, abusive, and shallow!

Melanogaster

  • Storyteller
  • Posts: 22
Re: The Game is the Game. The GDB is the GDB.
« Reply #80 on: June 25, 2017, 11:12:57 PM »
I've moderated two posts.  This is a reminder to read our forum rules, in particular Rule 2.

Quote
2. Posters should be respectful of one another. Flaming, baiting, trolling or abusing other posters in any way is forbidden. This rule extends to criticism and baiting of staff, as well as responding to such behavior with the same behavior in kind.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2017, 11:18:48 PM by Melanogaster »

Asche

  • Posts: 84
Re: The Game is the Game. The GDB is the GDB.
« Reply #81 on: June 25, 2017, 11:53:50 PM »
I want as many people actively angry as possible.
What causes you to have a bias for action and want to incite change does not equate to what others would like in order to be inspired for change. Some folks will just choose to not be involved in a bitter and angry mob mentality.

So while I empathize with your passion--your desired result is unlikely by trying to "rile up the crowd".

How's their preferred method been working?
I think it works just fine if you aren't coloring your viewpoint with confirmation bias and can accept intermittent mistakes or missteps without claiming "the end of days is nigh".

If by 'confirmation bias' you mean 'measurably declining player base' and by 'intermittent' you mean 'frequently,' then yes. But hey, maybe you're right. Maybe what we really need to stoke change is MORE OF THE SAME.

I looked back at your earlier posts in the thread to try unraveling your point. I think you have a point and would be surprised at the members who would agree with your point. But you're burying it in replies of snarky comments and generally hattery.

I strongly suggest you create a discussion thread with something along the theme of "Should staff adjust their policy of accountability?"

You'd get more mileage out of that than the route you're going, imo.

If you're not interested in providing discussion on the GDB or stirring change through discussion... then I'd ask you: Why are you posting on a discussion board at all?

Pretty sure my last thread, one of the most viewed in recent years, was on that very topic. Generated a lot of shitposts, then some actual valuable content, then a staff responded, then it was locked. A thread discussing staff authority reccently opened? Immediately locked on the grounds of 'not opening threads to harass staff.' Oh, that was Nergal? Has the thread been unlocked? No? Weird, that. If you believe for a second Adhira's bullshit about Nergal being this rogue staff working in a vacuum that got out of control was ANYTHING but a blatant effort to say "OH, NO, THAT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH US", you have a level of faith I'd call blind. Any such thread would be locked within a day, tops. Someone would make a shit-post and then they'd get it for 'derailing', most likely. Staff have no desire to engage in a dialogue.

Pop quiz: Can anyone name literally any decision on policy or the direction of the game that was changed after player input? They don't care about your discussion. They'll open threads to 'discuss' them just to say they let the players have their input, and it'll never impact anything. Same with the recent 'elven slur' thread. Got locked the moment criticism was something they couldn't argue. That is the relationship between staff and players today. A distant, untouchable hierarchy you have no recourse with. And that is how they WANT it.

But hey, we wouldn't things to get uncivil, right? Lets all put our faith in staff that THIS TIME, they REALLY have the well-being of the game at their forefront. REALLY. THIS TIME, GUYS, FOR REAL. YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW GENUINE THIS IS.

mansa

  • Posts: 9400
Re: The Game is the Game. The GDB is the GDB.
« Reply #82 on: June 25, 2017, 11:59:12 PM »
...
Pop quiz: Can anyone name literally any decision on policy or the direction of the game that was changed after player input?

I can name a few.  I've been here a while.  I've seen some stuff, man.
New Players Guide: http://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,33512.0.html


You win Armageddon, congratulations!  Type 'credits', then store your character and make a new one

valeria

  • Posts: 5573
    • I have a writing blog.
Re: The Game is the Game. The GDB is the GDB.
« Reply #83 on: June 26, 2017, 07:55:01 AM »
...
Pop quiz: Can anyone name literally any decision on policy or the direction of the game that was changed after player input?

I can name a few.  I've been here a while.  I've seen some stuff, man.

So have I (though obviously not as long as you!), so could I, but I honestly don't think that's what he's looking for.

Asche

  • Posts: 84
Re: The Game is the Game. The GDB is the GDB.
« Reply #84 on: June 26, 2017, 08:05:41 AM »
...
Pop quiz: Can anyone name literally any decision on policy or the direction of the game that was changed after player input?

I can name a few.  I've been here a while.  I've seen some stuff, man.

So have I (though obviously not as long as you!), so could I, but I honestly don't think that's what he's looking for.

Cool! How about one of you name the most recent example?

Refugee

  • Posts: 1655
Re: The Game is the Game. The GDB is the GDB.
« Reply #85 on: June 26, 2017, 08:06:27 AM »
Of course they have the well-being of the game at the forefront.  There's no reason for them to give up their free time working on it if they don't care about it. 

The issue is if what they think is well-being is correct, or agrees with what players think is well-being.  If there's a separation or a disconnect.  Or maybe just disagreement.

Treating them as if they don't -care- is simply trying to cause hurt and that will never close gaps.  Hurt is what you do when you're done trying to close gaps and are ready to eliminate opponents.

If you think that out, there's no good ending for anyone there.

Nathvaan

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 383
Re: The Game is the Game. The GDB is the GDB.
« Reply #86 on: June 26, 2017, 08:10:08 AM »
Cool! How about one of you name the most recent example?

As I am the one currently modifying the code based on the discussion thread I can safely say the karma changes discussion.

Also, you are certainly allowed to voice your opinion, right or wrong, but you also have agreed to follow the GDB rules while posting here.  Please review rule number two.  Thanks.

lairos

  • Helper
  • Posts: 583
Re: The Game is the Game. The GDB is the GDB.
« Reply #87 on: June 26, 2017, 12:12:04 PM »
There is a reason, a very good reason why I have less than 500 posts on this forum in over 15 years of playing this game. I really hate confrontation and have a personal issue when I feel like someone it upset with me, which I am aware is my own problem, but it is also why I love this game because my character's can be different than me and I can escape into something different. I tend to read them and keep the majority of the comments to myself. There has been a great number of ups and downs in this game over the years I have spent here, but I can honestly say it is more toxic now than I think I have seen it in a long time because everything is starting to finally come to a head. Players are trying to voice their opinions and what they see because most of them care a great deal, but sometimes go too far with it. Unfortunately there is a past and even some present of things getting shut down so fast it can make your head spin and leave you sitting there wondering why and the feeling of personal attack. It is my opinion that staff have really been stepping up and trying to make things happen for the game in several aspects even if they are not the points that some want. Staff are volunteers and they spend their time, a lot of time actually, trying to bring new things to the game for us and when we, as players, throw it in their face that we hate what they have done? That can be demoralizing and cause those who have invested all that time to just burnout. No one is perfect and we all make mistakes and if we all can't just let the past go and try to move forward then what is the point?

Now, I do strongly believe that the players should get more of a voice when it comes to some of the large changes and closures that affect all of us a great deal. I understand staff make the decisions, but making them without the players will result in loss of players, feeling of betrayal and feelings like the players have absolutely no say. Threads that get closed during the discussion when we get asked for our input and finally told we don't get a choice and this is the way it is can be a very hard pill to swallow. We all know we can go play or do something else, but for players like myself who have been around longer than many others, including some staff, we hold strong ties to this game and it is hard to give up without a fight. I am not going to get into all the changes that I have witnessed, but there have been many that affect the game down to its very core.

Bottom line is staff and players may not always agree, but the level of divide that has been happening being seen sometimes as an Players Vs Staff? This is strangling the game. The GDB and the Game go hand in hand not because people hold things against one another from GDB to IC, but because people stop playing because of the GDB. I for one will admit that the GDB has caused me to really question the time I invest into the game from posts from both sides of the "fence". We all need to be more respectful of one another as I am choosing to stick it out and give everyone the benefit of the doubt and I really hope everyone else can do the same.
A staff member sends:
     "The mind you have reached is currently unavailable.  Please try again later."