Author Topic: Getting More People to Play (City) Elves  (Read 11323 times)

number13

  • Posts: 976
Re: Getting More People to Play (City) Elves
« Reply #125 on: August 02, 2017, 10:10:53 PM »
I remember the elfy vendor. I also remember having to join a clan to get access to it, and that getting membership required a staff member to give a couple of us some fun plot stuff to do before it could happen...and that my character died horribly to a twinked out [redacted] a couple RL days after the staff member went to all that trouble.

It should just be a vendor who sells and buys stuff from elves that other players might want, so that c-elves can fulfill the role of black market merchants. The point isn't get bloodburn on every elf blade, but to give them a in-road for interacting with the rest of Allanak in a fun way.

lostinspace

  • Posts: 590
Re: Getting More People to Play (City) Elves
« Reply #126 on: August 03, 2017, 07:22:36 PM »
Shit, just let the elves have bloodburn on every blade, still not as scary as a dwarf with a hammer.
3/21/16 Never Forget

Dar

  • Posts: 1266
Re: Getting More People to Play (City) Elves
« Reply #127 on: August 03, 2017, 07:52:32 PM »
Getting taints and contraband etc. is one of the more enjoyable things to do with an elf.  I think an NPC vendor would ruin that part.  That said, perhaps a little /easier/ (OOCly) access to the tablelands / Red Storm might encourage more elfs-are-black-market opportunities with PCs.  Imagine an elf-only tunnel to Red Storm or the Tablelands?  Trading with your long lost cousins the SRs for taints and booze... Being an asset to the spice trade...

That doesnt compute.

Getting taints/contraband with a race that's not supposed to leave the city in any way.  The only way they're doing the getting that contraband is by dealing with Delves (when they're not turf bound), breeds, or other humans. While I do enjoy the aspect of wheeling and dealing, I find it a little ... counterproductive to claim that Celves are expert contrabandists. They're the contrabandists main customers. Not other way around.

Vex

  • Posts: 67
Re: Getting More People to Play (City) Elves
« Reply #128 on: August 05, 2017, 04:33:45 PM »
Getting taints/contraband with a race that's not supposed to leave the city in any way.  The only way they're doing the getting that contraband is by dealing with Delves (when they're not turf bound), breeds, or other humans.

Maybe, I'm mistaken, but I don't see where this is said in the documents.
"Mortals do drown so."

number13

  • Posts: 976
Re: Getting More People to Play (City) Elves
« Reply #129 on: August 06, 2017, 12:46:11 AM »
Getting taints/contraband with a race that's not supposed to leave the city in any way.  The only way they're doing the getting that contraband is by dealing with Delves (when they're not turf bound), breeds, or other humans.

Maybe, I'm mistaken, but I don't see where this is said in the documents.

C-elves can leave the cities, but they're not allowed to ride mounts or wagons, for the silly reason that they have too much pride in their running ability.

The joke being, unlike d-elves, c-elves have no running ability. So they walk around the desert, which is possible, but a dangerous and annoying to have to stop and rest.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2017, 12:49:12 AM by number13 »

Dar

  • Posts: 1266
Re: Getting More People to Play (City) Elves
« Reply #130 on: August 06, 2017, 03:18:55 AM »
I've been absent from the game way too long to recall. But I've had 'corrective' commentary made to me by staff when my Celves were wondering aimlessly through the sands.

I'd love a staffer input on this.  I dont mind inability to ride, I love the less then pique physical state of a celf. But is it normal for a Celf to wonder around the wilderness? I always understood it that Delves felt great debilitating unease inside the cities and Celves felt great debilitating unease outside of cities.

Armaddict

  • Posts: 6086
Re: Getting More People to Play (City) Elves
« Reply #131 on: August 06, 2017, 03:32:01 AM »
I've seen plenty of city elves outside the gates.  It's never been made a definitive 'no go' for me, and I think it would be silly to say it that way.

The fact of the matter is, there's nothing about them that excels out there.  It's already a fish out of water.  A 'you shouldn't even be there' would just be both excessive and overcontrolling.

I got to play a city elf that was utterly flabberghasted by the sight of the walls from the outside.  That was fun.  I don't think it's 'normal' for them to be there, but I don't think it's something needing a hardline 'DAS IST VERBOTEN' either.
She wasn't doing a thing that I could see, except standing there leaning on the balcony railing, holding the universe together. --J.D. Salinger

Hauwke

  • Posts: 1625
Re: Getting More People to Play (City) Elves
« Reply #132 on: August 06, 2017, 03:37:03 AM »
Ive had that explained away by C-elves having developed Agoraphobia by someone one time, I forget who though. Its a little wierd to say they all have it, but eh.

Bushranger

  • Posts: 1817
Re: Getting More People to Play (City) Elves
« Reply #133 on: August 06, 2017, 04:17:09 AM »
There is a habit of people pushing things to the very extremes and saying that's how it should be done.

  • ALL Humans should treat ALL Elves as the WORST scum and shun them at all costs!
  • EVERYONE should treat ALL Gemmed as the WORST scum and shun them at all costs!
  • ALL City Elves exist solely in the City and NEVER leave!

I find this unfortunate as nothing is ever this. People secretly seek out gemmed services - it's even written about in the room descriptions of a certain temple. Some humans have worked with some elves - elves even have tests of loyalty for humans, dwarves and even half-elves. Some city elves do leave the city - they join the T'zai Byn, they slip out to scavenge from the dead near the city wall or steal from the nearby farms. I don't think everyone should go to the extremes with every character but should rather take these as the normative guidelines.

Specifically regarding City Elf leaving the city: The desert is as fearsome to them as it is to any other race who has lived their entire life in the city. They've heard the animals, raiders and monsters who kill. They'e heard the description of the bleak, dry landscape with nary a wall to hide behind or a pocket to pick! They've also heard that there are other cities/towns and some brave or lucky people have managed to get to them.
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Miradus

  • Posts: 2052
Re: Getting More People to Play (City) Elves
« Reply #134 on: August 06, 2017, 08:44:48 AM »

There are already plenty of limitations on city elves. Can't ride means their mobility outside of cities is pretty limited. If one of them manages to walk his way out into the grasslands to live in a cave and arouse gick suspicion as well as the base elf suspicion, then let them do it. Not enough of them are going to do it to ever be a problem and the odd one or two who might would be just interesting deviations from the norm.

Last thing we need is MORE restrictions on roleplay for any character type.

Riev

  • Posts: 5159
Re: Getting More People to Play (City) Elves
« Reply #135 on: August 06, 2017, 07:20:14 PM »
An elf being outside the city is fine.

An elf being outside the city acting as a hunter is fine.

An elf being outside the city because they rolled elf assassin and thats the 'easier' way to skill up, and they don't even have an ability to skin, nor are producing any reason to have GONE outside? Thats a paddlin'.
Masks are the Armageddon equivalent of Ed Hardy shirts.

daiden

  • Posts: 5
Re: Getting More People to Play (City) Elves
« Reply #136 on: November 25, 2017, 02:29:56 PM »
Just popped in here to say that this was a really fun read with a lot of really great discussion. Even if I wasn't enthralled with the city elf plight before now, I would be. :D (added smiley to indicate sincerity)

I love the struggle. I come from a lifetime of cyberpunk street level gaming where the system is basically built against you. It makes any sort of accomplishment that much more rewarding.


650Booger

  • Posts: 533
Re: Getting More People to Play (City) Elves
« Reply #137 on: November 25, 2017, 06:13:57 PM »
city elves are gnarcore.  everything else is just carebear stares  0.o

also nice necro-bump, I liked this thread too. 
"Historical analogy is the last refuge of people who can't grasp the current situation."
-Kim Stanley Robinson

Grapes

  • Posts: 416
Re: Getting More People to Play (City) Elves
« Reply #138 on: November 25, 2017, 06:57:14 PM »
Go city elf or go home.
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If you ever hassle me IC for not playing much that means that I'm going to play even less or I'll forever write you off as a neckbeard chained to his computer. So don't be a dick.

Dakota

  • Posts: 1224
Re: Getting More People to Play (City) Elves
« Reply #139 on: January 01, 2018, 08:27:37 PM »
My Nekka,

I won arm as a scumbag, loner c-elf a few times over not that long ago... C-elf is hard mode. But it's the best mode.

Play to their strengths. They dont have many but the main asset is you get a lot of wealth in terms of character arc / concept in general. You dont need a tribe or a gaggle of PC elves or some coded clan if you come up w. something solid.

some cheat codes for a decent c-elf archtype / concept that keeps you city / scumbaggy but broadens your play area a bit (i.e. interact w. other races and could be played / based outside the Rinth...just no breeds).

Make a poison smith
Make a MCer spec'ing in stabby weapons. Everyone will want them if you keep 'em simple but savage.
Make a smuggler w. a class where you MC items w. hidden compartments... Swords that have ident sdesc but are not weapons...
Make a MCer who counterfits goods...
Make a spice cooker w. some MC class where you could make your own spice or brew up Arm crack...
Make a fence (bar is set high here)

Just play them all w. a 'f u' attitude. Make it about the con and make the con about the long game.

No matter how lonely it gets, don't get pally w. a half-elf.
No matter how great you think it might get, don't mudsex anything but an elf.
You're a elf. A city elf. The Lambo of Arm races. Play that to your advantage.

Get money. Get hot, long-legged Nekker babes (or dudes). Rule a corner in arm.
Czar of City Elves.

AdamBlue

  • Posts: 781
Re: Getting More People to Play (City) Elves
« Reply #140 on: January 02, 2018, 07:43:41 AM »
Elves are just shit, we should genocide them entirely off the game whenever possible.

Strongheart

  • Posts: 205
Re: Getting More People to Play (City) Elves
« Reply #141 on: January 04, 2018, 03:48:14 AM »
Gotta go with Adam on this one. Elves are worse than Rebel scum, and there is nothing worse than Rebel scum.
Die gedanken sind frei.

ShaLeah

  • Posts: 5150
Re: Getting More People to Play (City) Elves
« Reply #142 on: January 04, 2018, 10:13:29 AM »
Elves are just shit, we should genocide them entirely off the game whenever possible.
Gotta go with Adam on this one. Elves are worse than Rebel scum, and there is nothing worse than Rebel scum.

Ditto. Me three. The elves can go fuck a tree.  Everyone knows this to be an absolute truth.  Walking vermin.
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tapas

  • Posts: 273
Re: Getting More People to Play (City) Elves
« Reply #143 on: January 19, 2018, 02:54:30 PM »
My Nekka,

I won arm as a scumbag, loner c-elf a few times over not that long ago... C-elf is hard mode. But it's the best mode.

Play to their strengths. They dont have many but the main asset is you get a lot of wealth in terms of character arc / concept in general. You dont need a tribe or a gaggle of PC elves or some coded clan if you come up w. something solid.

some cheat codes for a decent c-elf archtype / concept that keeps you city / scumbaggy but broadens your play area a bit (i.e. interact w. other races and could be played / based outside the Rinth...just no breeds).

Make a poison smith
Make a MCer spec'ing in stabby weapons. Everyone will want them if you keep 'em simple but savage.
Make a smuggler w. a class where you MC items w. hidden compartments... Swords that have ident sdesc but are not weapons...
Make a MCer who counterfits goods...
Make a spice cooker w. some MC class where you could make your own spice or brew up Arm crack...
Make a fence (bar is set high here)

Just play them all w. a 'f u' attitude. Make it about the con and make the con about the long game.

No matter how lonely it gets, don't get pally w. a half-elf.
No matter how great you think it might get, don't mudsex anything but an elf.
You're a elf. A city elf. The Lambo of Arm races. Play that to your advantage.

Get money. Get hot, long-legged Nekker babes (or dudes). Rule a corner in arm.

Kinda what the problem is. C-Elves have been pigeon holed into one very narrow role. You're some sort of criminal backstabber that might have a crafting skill.

Which is fine if you like the role. But you're SOL if you want anything else or don't really like the 'rinth.

Half-giants are able to play more roles than city elves.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2018, 02:58:59 PM by tapas »

Molten Heart

  • Posts: 1956
Re: Getting More People to Play (City) Elves
« Reply #144 on: January 19, 2018, 03:06:28 PM »
.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2018, 03:47:40 AM by Molten Heart »

Armaddict

  • Posts: 6086
Re: Getting More People to Play (City) Elves
« Reply #145 on: January 19, 2018, 04:25:02 PM »
I had all sorts of little contentions with that particular post, but at the same time, he -does- play good elves, sooo...

I'd say follow the word long enough that you get truly comfortable playing elves until you can deviate from its narrower scope.  It isn't that things are wrong in it, it's that they're pretty absolute.  You'll trend away from the absolute as the psychology becomes more second nature.

You aren't playing the stereotype is the big deal.  Play the elf.  Let everyone else try to cram you into the stereotype and suffer from bad predictions on your character, let them struggle with reconciling between their expectation and your action.  Everything is more fun that way.  But playing the stereotype instead of the documentation is boring.  The documentation makes room for a lot of things and interpretations, when read with an inquisitive mind.

I realize that sounds condescending, it's not intended that way.  I just kinda mean that there's a lot more that can be put into the characters than they're often given credit for, and I'm hoping to reach some people who wouldn't normally play it and help them find some interesting facets.
She wasn't doing a thing that I could see, except standing there leaning on the balcony railing, holding the universe together. --J.D. Salinger

Cind

  • Posts: 1548
Re: Getting More People to Play (City) Elves
« Reply #146 on: January 22, 2018, 07:06:20 AM »
I think a lot of the ic fear of elves is that a lot of players, maybe more than not, assume that the average elf -will- steal when given an easy opportunity to do so. As far as I can tell from the docs, this isn't the case. Stealing is something they admire to the point of cult worship--- but not everyone is a thief. Some are just unscrupulous merchants, or knifemakers who hope their children grow up to be master thieves. I haven't actually seen the docs in a while but honestly, if -every single member of a group- tried to steal on occasion, most of that group would be dead after a few years because of how hard people are on even petty crimes in Armageddon, and how hard they are on elves especially.
Look, a petting tregil.  So silky...Feel him.

Speciation

  • Posts: 60
Re: Getting More People to Play (City) Elves
« Reply #147 on: January 22, 2018, 11:04:02 AM »
I think a lot of the ic fear of elves is that a lot of players, maybe more than not, assume that the average elf -will- steal when given an easy opportunity to do so. As far as I can tell from the docs, this isn't the case. Stealing is something they admire to the point of cult worship--- but not everyone is a thief. Some are just unscrupulous merchants, or knifemakers who hope their children grow up to be master thieves. I haven't actually seen the docs in a while but honestly, if -every single member of a group- tried to steal on occasion, most of that group would be dead after a few years because of how hard people are on even petty crimes in Armageddon, and how hard they are on elves especially.

All elves are thieves in their mind, though to the other races that "theft" may not be stealing or a crime. Agreed that when you play an elf everyone always watches you and expects you to commit a crime even though there are usually a ton of other virtual elves around, you get singled out instantly. Also, to an elf stealing something isn't about value, it's about challenge, so if you're overly cautious and show that you are afraid of elves stealing from you, then you just made yourself a mark really. Stealing something from an unconscious guy isn't very impressive but could be fun to wave in his face once he wakes up. Stealing from a Templar, now that's some beautiful art. City elves I've played haven't had a very high coded skill in stealing or lock picking but have "stole" plenty in their own way.

In the 7 months I have been playing I've only seen a total of maybe 9 city elves. Which makes sense to me since playing a city elf is worse than playing a half-elf in the sense that most people automatically hate you and target you but as a city elf you're less useful since you are at such a massive disadvantage outside the city. I get that city elves aren't rangers but even people who live in the city leave to work or travel a bit. Even though there is no physical difference between desert elves and city elves, city elves are just weaker humans that can't ride mounts when it comes down to it. I wish there was something that let city elves rest faster if they are inside a building or a tent just to make slightly bearable. Right now it's 2 mins of walking and RPing then 5 mins of resting. Just as a city elf I'm not sure why I'm so proud of my running, sure I'm good at running in the city but why would I refuse to ride a mount when I have nothing to be proud of outside the city? I mean, other than cultural taboos and such.

Cind

  • Posts: 1548
Re: Getting More People to Play (City) Elves
« Reply #148 on: January 23, 2018, 06:23:52 AM »
Maybe we just need to advertise city elves as playing hard mode. Put in the bottom of the doc page, 'Elves are considered one of the hardest roles to play in the game,' and add that sometimes beyond hardship lies accomplishment.

Some people have stated that they like city elves better for how hard they are to play, so maybe we should keep it like it is.
Look, a petting tregil.  So silky...Feel him.

zealus

  • Posts: 155
Re: Getting More People to Play (City) Elves
« Reply #149 on: January 23, 2018, 06:51:25 AM »
Reading this thread makes me want to elf it out.
Time to write an elf next :D