Author Topic: Coder Transparency - Bandages  (Read 5601 times)

nessalin

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Coder Transparency - Bandages
« on: May 23, 2017, 03:40:07 PM »
The following represents a working feature branch based largely on a discussion staff-side over the last three months, but including recent posts by players in the code forum.  It is currently in testing and may go out as early as next week.  This does not represent the totality of the changes, only the ones that are likely to make it into help files and other player facing documentation.



Bandages are going to undergo a change from instant heal to a healing affect that increases the likelihood of healing happening on tick and how much is healed.

The considerations on healing will be how injured the patient is, how skilled the healer is, and what quality the bandage is.  The intersection of these values will be used to determine the duration the affect stays in place and what benefits the bandage gives.

Looking at someone will indicate if they have been bandaged with a message after their description. Assessing someone will do the same but also relate to characters with the bandage skill how effective the bandage is and roughly how long until it will last.

Bandage affects will not stack.  Applying a bandage to someone that already has one will remove the old bandage first.  Good if you're applying a better bandage or by a more skilled healer than the prior healer. Not good, otherwise.

Vigorous activity such as fighting, running, climbing, falling, etc... will lower the duration of the bandage, but not its effectiveness.

Anyone will be able to attempt to use a bandage on a patient, but only those with the 'bandage' skill on their skill-list will be able to advance from failures.   Failure when bandaging will result in damage that decreases as the skill of the healer goes up, to the point that it may be 1 hit point at the highest levels.

Additionally almost any injury will be capable of being bandaged.

Finally, using assess on bandage items will relate to the user how it matches up against their skill, letting them know if the bandage is overkill for their ability or if it is wanting.  There is always a benefit to using the best bandage that you can acquire, offsetting the difficulty of treating more serious wounds, but ultimately your character's skill will come into play in determining just how much aid is given.
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Riev

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Re: Coder Transparency - Bandages
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2017, 04:02:02 PM »
Interesting idea for the project. Will honestly be nice to see "bandage" not just being "mundane heal spell". I'm excited to see how it works. On other people.

Not on me.

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whitt

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Re: Coder Transparency - Bandages
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2017, 04:16:59 PM »
Will a (well?) bandaged person heal faster than a sleeping person that did not receive any treatment?

Otherwise, I'm loving this change!  Yay for being injured mattering and as Riev pointed out, bandages not being Vivaduans in scrap form.
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nessalin

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Re: Coder Transparency - Bandages
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2017, 04:36:12 PM »
A high enough quality bandage applied by a sufficiently skilled hand will result in a healing rate comparable to a non-bandaged sleeping patient.
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James de Monet

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Re: Coder Transparency - Bandages
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2017, 05:16:37 PM »
Interesting!  I like the healing over time.  Much more RPable.

One thing I wasn't quite clear about from your description, is the benefit of any given bandaging limited by the minimum between the bandage quality and the bandager's skill?  Or would a master bandager using a novice-level bandage still expect to grant more benefit than an apprentice bandager with the same novice-level bandage?
You know I think if James simply retitled his thread "Cheese" and apologized for his first post being off-topic, all problems would be solved.

Feco

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Re: Coder Transparency - Bandages
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2017, 07:55:31 PM »
Sounds cool!
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Pale Horse

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Re: Coder Transparency - Bandages
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2017, 08:07:48 PM »
Death by bandage is still a thing?
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Hauwke

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Re: Coder Transparency - Bandages
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2017, 08:22:11 PM »
Well technically it was never death by bandage, I always treated it as death by bloodloss.

James de Monet

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Re: Coder Transparency - Bandages
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2017, 11:00:20 PM »
Well technically it was never death by bandage, I always treated it as death by bloodloss.

Save it for the malpractice court, you quack.  ;)
You know I think if James simply retitled his thread "Cheese" and apologized for his first post being off-topic, all problems would be solved.

nessalin

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Re: Coder Transparency - Bandages
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2017, 10:19:02 AM »
Death by bandage is still a thing?

Sadly, yes.  So long as you're willing to stick your hands into the squirming guts of someone on death's door without really knowing what you're doing, death by bandage will still be a thing.  The higher the healer's bandage skill, the less chance of doing damage and the less damage will be done, however, so we should see less of this.
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Riev

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Re: Coder Transparency - Bandages
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2017, 10:21:57 AM »
You mentioned that bandaging will be possible at "any level" to allow for a regeneration effect to be applied.

Is the 55% no-heal threshold still going to be a thing? Like, we may still need to 'sleep off' some higher damage counts, its just that we can bandage after the first "solid" hit and either fail for skill, or succeed for higher standing regen?
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nessalin

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Re: Coder Transparency - Bandages
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2017, 10:22:22 AM »
Interesting!  I like the healing over time.  Much more RPable.

One thing I wasn't quite clear about from your description, is the benefit of any given bandaging limited by the minimum between the bandage quality and the bandager's skill?  Or would a master bandager using a novice-level bandage still expect to grant more benefit than an apprentice bandager with the same novice-level bandage?

There are two primary concerns related to the affect of being bandaged.

The duration of the bandage, which is mostly a constant but gets a slight boost from skilled healer's.

The effectiveness of the bandage, which is the lower of the quality of the bandage or the healer's skill.


Bandage quality is tied to the success of applying the bandage so it is always beneficial to use the highest quality bandage you can acquire even if its quality outstrips your skill.
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nessalin

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Re: Coder Transparency - Bandages
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2017, 10:32:07 AM »
You mentioned that bandaging will be possible at "any level" to allow for a regeneration effect to be applied.

Is the 55% no-heal threshold still going to be a thing? Like, we may still need to 'sleep off' some higher damage counts, its just that we can bandage after the first "solid" hit and either fail for skill, or succeed for higher standing regen?

All but the smallest of injuries can be bandaged, everything else is fair game.

Wounds so serious they require sleep can be healed by bandages, but only if the quality of the bandage and the skill of the healer are high enough.

Being bandaged will halt bleeding out even if the bandage affect is not strong enough to let the patient heal while awake.
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Molten Heart

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Re: Coder Transparency - Bandages
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2017, 10:36:44 AM »
.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2018, 10:05:58 AM by Molten Heart »

Pale Horse

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Re: Coder Transparency - Bandages
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2017, 10:55:31 AM »
Death by bandage is still a thing?

Sadly, yes.  So long as you're willing to stick your hands into the squirming guts of someone on death's door without really knowing what you're doing, death by bandage will still be a thing.  The higher the healer's bandage skill, the less chance of doing damage and the less damage will be done, however, so we should see less of this.

Excellent.
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nessalin

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Re: Coder Transparency - Bandages
« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2017, 10:57:27 AM »
If someone is significantly injured and then bandaged and then sustains a similar level injury, will the new injury need to be rebandaged to heal w/o sleeping?
No.  Although being in combat will lower the remaining duration of a bandage affect.

Also to consider is that when you are fully healed, your bandage affect is removed.

Also, will bandage still be able to cure some poisons as described in the help file?

Quote from: Bandage Skill Help File
A truly talented individual, using high quality bandages may even be able to cure some poisons through skilled first aid.

Yes.
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Melkor

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Re: Coder Transparency - Bandages
« Reply #16 on: May 28, 2017, 01:22:06 AM »
This all sounds great. Kudos, staff.
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FantasyWriter

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Re: Coder Transparency - Bandages
« Reply #17 on: May 30, 2017, 09:32:05 AM »
Will the patient receive some sort of echo when their "bandage effect" wears off?
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nessalin

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Re: Coder Transparency - Bandages
« Reply #18 on: May 30, 2017, 09:53:09 AM »
Will the patient receive some sort of echo when their "bandage effect" wears off?

Yes.
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Delirium

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Re: Coder Transparency - Bandages
« Reply #19 on: June 05, 2017, 09:01:09 PM »
I'm looking forward to seeing this in action.

I have a question:

"   -Prevents them from bleeding to death."

Does this mean there is now bloodloss code, or does this specifically refer to when someone is critically wounded?
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nessalin

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Re: Coder Transparency - Bandages
« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2017, 09:07:48 PM »
I'm looking forward to seeing this in action.

I have a question:

"   -Prevents them from bleeding to death."

Does this mean there is now bloodloss code, or does this specifically refer to when someone is critically wounded?

Being bandaged will prevent characters below 0 hit points from losing more hit points.
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Dar

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Re: Coder Transparency - Bandages
« Reply #21 on: June 06, 2017, 12:40:09 AM »
Will it be possible to soak a bandage in a poison to inflict a patient with it?

:D

Harmless

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Re: Coder Transparency - Bandages
« Reply #22 on: June 06, 2017, 01:20:39 AM »
this is great. The insta-heal effect was never realistic. the ability to spam cheapass bandages for full or nearly full heal was never realistic. this is a major fix to a feature that will overall improve gameplay and reduce silly code abuse. kudos!
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Riev

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Re: Coder Transparency - Bandages
« Reply #23 on: June 06, 2017, 08:47:13 AM »
I'm looking forward to seeing this in action.

I have a question:

"   -Prevents them from bleeding to death."

Does this mean there is now bloodloss code, or does this specifically refer to when someone is critically wounded?

Being bandaged will prevent characters below 0 hit points from losing more hit points.
If this works how I'm thinking, I like the idea that "anyone" can attempt to at least stabilize someone, and get them to someone with a better handle on things.

Maybe they take you to a magicker to heal you because they're the only one online. Maybe they don't. But its better than bleeding to death for 30minutes because nobody is online.
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John

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Re: Coder Transparency - Bandages
« Reply #24 on: June 06, 2017, 09:21:55 AM »
Maybe they take you to a magicker to heal you because they're the only one online. Maybe they don't. But its better than bleeding to death for 30minutes because nobody is online.
Wield dagger has always been a quick solution to that conundrum as well. I always say it's better to end it quick than let them suffer.
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Nathvaan

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Re: Coder Transparency - Bandages
« Reply #25 on: June 06, 2017, 11:22:20 AM »
If this works how I'm thinking, I like the idea that "anyone" can attempt to at least stabilize someone, and get them to someone with a better handle on things.

Maybe they take you to a magicker to heal you because they're the only one online. Maybe they don't. But its better than bleeding to death for 30minutes because nobody is online.
Yeah, as long as we are clear.  Anyone can ATTEMPT to bandage but that's not to say they will be very good at it.  It just means it will let you try!

Riev

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Re: Coder Transparency - Bandages
« Reply #26 on: June 06, 2017, 11:34:08 AM »
If this works how I'm thinking, I like the idea that "anyone" can attempt to at least stabilize someone, and get them to someone with a better handle on things.

Maybe they take you to a magicker to heal you because they're the only one online. Maybe they don't. But its better than bleeding to death for 30minutes because nobody is online.
Yeah, as long as we are clear.  Anyone can ATTEMPT to bandage but that's not to say they will be very good at it.  It just means it will let you try!

Oh. Yeah. Absolutely, you aren't stabilizing someone in critical condition if you've been a dung shoveler your whole life, but who knows? Maybe with the right bandages and situation, you can at least stop them from dying.

I'm sure it hasn't happened OFTEN, but to be at negative HPs and you can only wait and hope the NPC doesn't kill you, or that your HP hits positive, is boring and nervewracking at the same time. At least with this, anyone CAN at least try to help, instead of borrowing a knife from John.
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Miradus

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Re: Coder Transparency - Bandages
« Reply #27 on: June 06, 2017, 01:42:56 PM »

I've killed rather a lot of people on accident with mercy on just because they went incapped and I couldn't bandage them.

I, and my future victims, think this is a great change.

nessalin

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Re: Coder Transparency - Bandages
« Reply #28 on: June 06, 2017, 02:16:08 PM »
If your droog is laying there with their chest cracked open breathing their last, couldn't hurt to shove a few wads of bandages into the opening, pray one up to Shai-Hulud, and hope for the best.  Fair chance you'll end up killing them. Might be that was going to happen, anyway.
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helix

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Re: Coder Transparency - Bandages
« Reply #29 on: June 07, 2017, 02:22:45 PM »
Not sure if this is the proper place for feedback for this change, however...

Having played with this for the last couple of days, and having needed to be bandaged several times during those days, I do like how this is working much better than the old system. Haven't experienced any issues, yet.

FantasyWriter

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Re: Coder Transparency - Bandages
« Reply #30 on: June 13, 2017, 02:07:15 PM »
I, also, really like how this is working so far.
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Grapes

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Re: Coder Transparency - Bandages
« Reply #31 on: October 16, 2017, 02:41:52 PM »
Been toying with this some as of late. Sleeping seems more or less required with certain levels of wounded-ness (with lowest quality bandages, though) even at higher levels of skill. Will need to play with it more.
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gotdamnmiracle

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Re: Coder Transparency - Bandages
« Reply #32 on: October 19, 2017, 05:23:43 PM »
Additionally almost any injury will be capable of being bandaged.

When will the code be fixed to allow a PC to bandage NPCs back from near-death again?
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zztri

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Re: Coder Transparency - Bandages
« Reply #33 on: November 24, 2018, 05:50:34 AM »
I never saw the old bandage code. I loved its current version. It's pretty realistic. Just one question;

Logically bandaging someone else should be easier than bandaging yourself. Is it accounted for in the code?

gotdamnmiracle

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Re: Coder Transparency - Bandages
« Reply #34 on: December 01, 2018, 03:02:47 AM »
I never saw the old bandage code. I loved its current version. It's pretty realistic. Just one question;

Logically bandaging someone else should be easier than bandaging yourself. Is it accounted for in the code?

It is.
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X-D

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Re: Coder Transparency - Bandages
« Reply #35 on: December 01, 2018, 04:05:41 AM »
Not a real fan of new bandage code...But meh, fine.

One part I REALLY do not like is the pass fail on combat vs bandages. As it stands, no matter how well you are bandaged, if you enter combat with anything at all, they fall off. This IMO, is wrong. Poorly bandaged with scraps...Meh, fine, But expertly bandaged with high end bandages...it should take a LOT to make them come off.

As it sits, your 50 day warrior gets into a fight with a rat, something that cannot touch him and he will kill in 2 rounds...BOOM, bandages gone.

Oh, I can move, run, ride, craft, but if I swat a fly...BLAMMO...bandages give way.

Yeah...that should be fixed.
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The7DeadlyVenomz

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Re: Coder Transparency - Bandages
« Reply #36 on: December 01, 2018, 09:20:28 AM »
Haha. Yeah, that should certainly be fixed.
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gotdamnmiracle

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Re: Coder Transparency - Bandages
« Reply #37 on: December 01, 2018, 09:47:15 AM »
If I recall correctly running is out of the window too. Which is pretty silly for your elf PCs who are essentially trapped stationery until they're topped off. But my experience with this I was using crappy lengths of cloth.
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Vex

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Re: Coder Transparency - Bandages
« Reply #38 on: December 01, 2018, 08:11:54 PM »
Quote
Being in combat causes your bandages to loosen.
A striped sand-raptor narrowly evades your charge.

DELETED>
Being in combat causes your bandages to loosen.
You <DELETED> a striped sand-raptor's arm.
Being in combat causes your bandages to loosen.
A striped sand-raptor slashes at you, but you dodge out of the way.

DELETED>
Being in combat causes your bandages to loosen.
Your bandages tear loose and fall off.
A striped sand-raptor slashes at you, but you dodge out of the way.

This was from earlier.

Skill level Master, at maxed or very near it. I used a regular white bandage, made from linen. I don't have a capture of it, but, with with one of the best bandages in the game, the bandage remained in place for several combat rounds, and remained in place when I'd killed my opponent.

With the same character, at the same level, just now, I was able to run five rooms, with bandages progressively loosening, before the bandage fell off (when attempting to run into a 6th room). The same level of skill, same type of bandage.

I have not tried running with the "best" bandages, however, evidence indicates, it'll behave in a similar manner.

Working as intended, and in a reasonable manner, imo.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2018, 08:18:33 PM by Vex »
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Re: Coder Transparency - Bandages
« Reply #39 on: December 02, 2018, 10:20:53 PM »
Shrug, if so, I have just never seen it....every time, off first round of combat. No matter quality/skill.
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