Author Topic: Brainstorming  (Read 2203 times)

Evilone

  • Posts: 500
Brainstorming
« on: April 18, 2017, 09:21:38 AM »
Hey everyone. I've just been going over crazy ideas and suggestions that I feel might add to the mud. I remember when (Nyr I think it was) started a thread sorta similar like this about two years ago. A lot of ideas got bounced around, and it was actually a really good step I saw Armageddon staff take with the direction of the game, and I did see some of the ideas players proposed introduced some time later. Add your own ideas. Please try and keep it positive.

I'm going to start with the idea I kinda like the most. How to make House Tor a viable player clan once again. Ath had been asking about military clans a while back, and maybe reopening Tor. If I was to open Tor I'd make them essentially a small, semi-professional army, the Tor Legion, or just keep calling them the Tor Scorpions. Introduce an enemy, old or new, that actually -challenges- Allanak. Establish front lines, a border, give them a fort to live in, and the Tor Legion is the shield against this new enemy. They are only small in number, so obviously there will be holes the enemy can slip through and attack deeper into the Vrun. There's ten total villages I believe, 7 virtual. Make a few more of them less virtual, and more villages can be raided, defended, and so on, so the soldiers don't feel like they are just protecting sand. I'd use Tuluk again as the enemy, since the area all the way to Tuluk is actually built, but gith also make a really good enemy, even though people might be sick to death of them, because even with the mindless slaughter of NPCs, staff don't have to worry about players getting ultra loot all the time, cause it'll be stinky gith crap. Use scripts to have random times for these gith to push into the Vrun, so player patrols can randomly come across them, and won't need staff to animate. Having enemies to kill when staff aren't animating is important for off peak players too. Still keep a 2 noble cap. One a high ranking officer in the Tor legion, the other running the academy in Allanak. Have them rotate to do a tour every now and then to keep things interesting. Any criminals in Allanak that may face death in the pit or the arena that is not charged with treason or magick, may chose to join the Tor legion instead as a slave soldier. They get a slave mark and assigned a unit. If they somehow escape the fort, or flee from the unit in combat, they become wanted. No big deal. Keep it all IG. If only there was a clan that went after captured slaves? Bring back the Borsail Wyverns!

The Wyverns. If the current PC Borsail nobles want to recruit and run the Wyverns, let them. Make it all up to the PC's to recruit though. I'd rather the clan was open and there was an option, than just being denied and shut down if its having a low period of activity. Give it a cap of 5 PC's. All Wyverns could get access to work with the gladiator trainers, and train with the gladiators themselves as well, during times when there are no slaves to hunt down and capture, or any highborn to protect. Give some coded starting benefit to play a escaped slave. Have a extended subguild Escaped Gladiator Slave. Starts with slightly better bumps to combat skills, but must get slave tattoo, or even give them one advanced combat skill from the start. Downside, your name and basic description go on a Borsail board.

Noble Houses. Sometimes noble characters can live for ages, and other times they can make a big impact in a short time. I think thats good for the game either way. Nobody notices Amos the grebber go missing. Lots of people notice Amos the noble go missing, even if they are a junior noble. If nobles are dead, replace them as soon as possible, that is within an adequate time frame that doesn't spoil how they ended up dissapearing if it's not so public. The less nobles we have, hurts the game I feel. For one, there's less bigger events, as nobles have the power and capital to push such things, where normal PC's don't, nor really have a desire to. Two, there's more cause for other nobles to get bored, and lose interest, because they have no one at their level they can interact with. MCB. Screw MCB. I like CB more, and less death. Killing your enemy is so boring, but everyone has their own way of doing things. It's okay to lose sometimes. Learn from it and become stronger. You might hate your enemy when they are around, but they actually give your noble something to go against, because when they are gone, you have the downtime of having to get them replaced, which can be a while in between other role calls and such.

Oash Elites/Special OPs. I was going to say no to bringing them back since Oash does have their magickers, but screw that. Bring them back too. Maybe cap them to 3 or something though, just to keep a bit of a balance between the noble houses and the IG forces they have. Open the option at least, like I've been saying.

Open Role Calls. Make the roles such as Amber Wyverns, Oash Elites, etc. open roles, that players can app anytime as long as there is an opening? Keep the info updated on a new section on the GDB called Roles Available or something, or on the actual webpage a basic staff rolecall stating everything you'd need to include when you applied. Most of us who play lots know when a Sergeant is killed, and that there might not be anyone suitable to replace them IG. If players who want that role could just apply and get in much quicker than waiting for calls from staff, it might make for less stagnation IG. Not just replacing Sergeant roles either. Let them app in as Private rank equivalents.

Rinth. I do like the suggestions of making it bigger. I didn't find it very difficult to explore and learn actually. I didn't really find anything extremely exciting either during my time there, though I'll admit it wasn't very long, and I didn't get to develop a strong enough character to move around as I pleased without worry. I'm guessing, but I can imagine there are only 2 safe houses for the Guild? Don't answer. If there's more, great, but playing a PC Guild leader on another mud, I remember working my way from the bottom, and slowly gaining exciting new places to hang out and access. There was a recruit safe house, a senior safe house, a sewer safe house, and even a safe house in a little village out east. What does that even matter? It was rewarding to me and kept me wanting to rise in rank. You'd gain better access to gear in different places, picks, poisons, so on. I'd really like to see more merchants about the rinth, and actually give players a reason to go shopping there, instead of just selling random bits of crap no one actually buys. Loading different gear, items from Tuluki clans that can't be gotten anymore, being stolen up north and fenced in the south, only available to rinth players might be nice. I'd move the Screaming Mantis to sit in a more central position, and have it at the end of the path directly entering the rinth. Make it a completely neutral zone, with no fighting at all, enforced by tough m'f'ers. Run something like the Continental in John Wick. Add apartments to the top of it. Add a fighting pit. Add a still. Make it actually be able to be run by a PC who brews moonshine to sell? (I've always wanted a bar owner PC in ARM). Add a Akai Sjir trader that sells the clans picks and gear. Add a whorehouse. Add more creatures to the rinth. A dangerous spider nest that can't just be wiped out in five seconds, bigger and nastier rats to kill, and so on. All these places though should have loot randomly loaded in them infrequently, to represent the population being dragged to them and dying within them. Makes for dangerous, interesting exploring, if the PCs want to take the risk. Make an ultimate enemy that the Guild, and the Elves might even have to team up for on occasion to wipe out. Base them in the sewers and make them tough.

New Guilds. Do we want other role options available? We have the new upcoming Gladiator main guild. I'd like to see other guilds added that relate to roles in game as well, and set them at like 4-5 karma. 4-5 karma I feel is justified because I don't feel new players should just be able to spec app them from the beginning, as these roles should require some world knowledge and experience before stepping into them. Call the guilds: Torscorpion. Borsailwyvern. Oashelite. Bynveteran. Each would start with all skills at apprentice, and maybe three-five journeyman ranks. They would be lifesworn roles however, and would face IG punishment for rebelling. Apps would be rejected when clans were at their caps.

Staff Animations to IG Player Actions. Suggestion to players - Get over the whole idea of "Staff set out to kill me". Well maybe you shouldn't have gone around slaughtering every single NPC in the rinth like some psycho, and force a world reaction that the other people there felt the need to mob up and stop you, which just so happens that staff have to be the ones to enforce. Keep that in mind. I have a feeling a big reason staff don't animate as much as they'd like to, is because certain players just want to go about twinking without being bothered and told "No, you shouldn't be doing that." I enjoy NPC combat with staff far more than I will ever enjoy PVP. PVP is mostly just code and brief spam and death, whereas the fights with staff often come with time to react and plan, and you can be afraid or brave in such situations, as you have the time because generally staff want US to survive and come out on top. At least I hope they do!

Senate Meetings. I've read some old senate logs (I never actually witnessed one myself), and they make for a great read. I can see them involving lots of staff effort, but I wish these still happened. I really do. It'd be great if it could be done on a smaller scale. I'm not sure how exactly, but if it involved the junior nobles, their aides, I think it would be a nice event to have returned to Allanak.

Arena. Nothing really to be said except I'd like to see some mounted combat. Maybe archery as well. I'm liking the way things are developing there. Gladiator PCs. Yay.

It's Alive. More random NPCs in the game world outside of cities. I could ride all around the Vrun Draith, and unless I enter somewhere, there's not a single NPC humanoid to be found, unless animated by staff and moved. It's kind of funny cause when I actually really think about that it's true. I know we have a lot of great scripts. Having travelers just go from one place to another with minor loot and goods at different times could do wonders. It could create more interesting adventures for raiders, or even militia and soldiers, who feel the need to protect these travelers when they patrol if they find them. In so many cases, I'd rather abuse be dealt with, than there be no opportunity, and so give players the benefit of the doubt to mostly do the right thing.

Evil New Race - The Khon.
*Tall, muscular, and humanlike, with a lifespan double that of a average human. Their technological innovations are genetically engineered and made up from living organisms. Khon derive pleasure from pain, and strive to alter their physical capabilities through organ augmenting. The Khon have no ability to use psionics or the way, and while most non-psionic races were long since deceased, the Khon have been able to survive because they are also immune to psionics, having the ability to supress psionic powers in other sentient beings, and even disrupt elemental magicks. The Khon have been buried and locked away from the races of Zalanthas since the time of the first Dragon. Once evil servants of the Dragon, their civilization crumbled when the empire of the Dragon was destroyed, and it forced them deep underground into the Undercity of Subterranea. Almost two thousand years past, they have finally resurfaced, and have a thirst to crush all opposition and rule the Known World.

Lets introduce guys like these and see how Allanak and Tuluk fair against them. I'd put them breaking out in the Known from Subterranea in the Red Desert somewhere.

Anyway. I've had my fun. I was bored.
Death is only the beginning...

Melkor

  • Posts: 706
Re: Brainstorming
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2017, 09:28:20 AM »
A lot of really cool ideas, Evilone. I am sure lots of people would be on-board with them.

The main problem I see, with most of them, is the current playerbase is too small to continue to stretch thinner with more houses, more races, more locations, etc.
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.

Synthesis

  • Posts: 9342
Re: Brainstorming
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2017, 02:13:25 PM »
A lot of combat role ideas.

I'd like to know what percentage of the playerbase is actually playing a warrior, though.  My guess is that it's...not many, and it's already barely enough to cover the Byn and the AoD.  Rangers and assassins are just so much more versatile that it's hard not to keep playing them over and over again...but nobody wants to take their "combat clan" assassin or ranger into a 5v5 PvE situation where it's 5 NPC warriors vs. 2 PC warriors and 3 miscellaneous scrubs.
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BadSkeelz

  • Posts: 8173
Re: Brainstorming
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2017, 02:34:21 PM »
There's a fair bit of warriors in Kurac too, don't forget. My personal experience with combat clans is that they're never more than 1/3rd warriors, with Rangers and Assassins filling out the rest. Assassins are particularly common in the AoD (which leads to super frustrating hilarious expeditions whenever a Templar tried to march us across the Red desert). The other clans tilt towards Rangers. Indies are a whole other story in regards to Warrior utility.

But that's all a digression. I'm skeptical of adding new clans, new rooms, new anything because without something to do with it all of it just becomes toys for the sake of toys. I think Armageddon needs a more robust, vibrant, and sustained metaplot in order to grab and keep player interest. North vs South War, political violence within the City, mass turbulence anywhere. Something to convince us that things are happening and that we might get swept up in events at any moment. This is particularly true outside of Allanak where you don't really have anything to look forward to but getting ganked by one spam-caster/sparrer/archer or another. In Zalanthas nothing changes then you die.

I hear there's kind of more interesting things going on in Allanak but they're not broadcasted very far (in-game or out) so it's easy for me to play other games under the impression that I'm not missing anything in Arm.

I have great gear, good skills and AHMAZIGN STATS but don't really feel like doing anything with any of it.
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Malken

  • Posts: 8941
Re: Brainstorming
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2017, 03:05:17 PM »
I hear there's kind of more interesting things going on in Allanak but they're not broadcasted very far (in-game or out) so it's easy for me to play other games under the impression that I'm not missing anything in Arm.
“When I was a fighting man, the kettle-drums they beat;
The people scattered gold-dust before my horse’s feet;
But now I am a great king, the people hound my track
With poison in my wine-cup, and daggers at my back.”

Armaddict

  • Posts: 5832
Re: Brainstorming
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2017, 04:06:15 PM »
tl;dr
-------------
If you don't read the whole thing, you probably won't understand the summary at the bottom.  It's a long read, I know, but it's built mostly as a demonstration.


Please don't nitpick at the code ideas and such themselves.  While this is the presentation of an idea, it's more of a demonstration framework for creating content for the playerbase in a way that promotes player activity as a full on 'background' to interact with in way that promotes player-to-player interaction, conflict, and character-sensible motivation.  I understand this would be a ton of coding, but it's also a foundation for coding that is based on promotion of content versus features and roleplay congregations.  Simply put, creating events for people to gather at but with no real goal in mind can be fun, but under repetition, becomes non-stimulating.

I'm very code-oriented, because I think that the code-based nature of Armageddon is what separates it from an IRC roleplay chatroom, or a MUSH, neither of which are preferred roleplay experiences for many people who end up choosing Armageddon.  It isn't that one way is better than other, it's that by building based on ideas like this, you actually elevate the game for everyone as the effects climb up the ladder of those roleplaying within that coded atmosphere.


The First Example (This is massive, and Allanak-Centric)
-------------------------------
Step One:  Non-virtualize portions of the Economy.

The Clay Camp.  Obsidian Mines.  Farming Villages.  They all exist, but for all intents and purposes, don't really do much aside from function as a prop.  Change this.  Add counters to the game world that keeps track of in-game time.  Set a rate.  Set a delivery time.  This builds into Caravans, below.  You could make it so that an actual stockpile is being built, but I'm not sure if that would utterly bog down the system or not.  Anyway, point is, make this non-virtual; have them actually collecting resources.

Two:  Some new objects!

Caravan- On the delivery date set for each resource, spawn a wagon object.  Attach an escort to it (in the case of Allanaki resources, a small entourage of soldiers is likely).  Have it travel along a set route, with tested movement-rates that make sense for the cargo/average size of shipment.  Each should have it's own delivery 'room', where when it's reached, the 'amount' determined by the counter from the Resource Camp is added to the 'stockpile' of that area.  The items become virtual again.  The stockpile amount is tracked.

Raiding Camp- Randomly spawn. Make it populate with a -small- number of NPC's bearing the 'raider' flag.  One guard, one leader, one member.  Randomly select two raiding days.  Each raiding day, 1 leader takes the henchmen out on a randomly generated path of a certain number of rooms, then when it reaches the end, it generates the shortest path back to their camp location.  Any beasts they encounter, they fight and skin.  Any humanoids they encounter, they attack with similar effect as the 'rinth mugger code; not -meant- to be lethal, but accidents happen, and the intent is to strip them of items.  On return to the camp, items with a value of <300 (arbitrary amount) become virtually sold. Valuable items are stored (after value is added to the camp).  'Camp value', based on what they've 'earned', is tracked, and on milestones they gain new henchmen, new leaders, and new guards.  'Raiders' will attack other raiders if their campID is different, if possible.  Thus, they will grow depending on location and success.

Tribe/Family Camp- Randomly spawn.  Populate with 'forager' NPC's.  Three guards, three foragers, two hunter. Select hunting days.  Every day, foragers find a location within a certain radius to forage for a random resource type.  On hunting days, hunters go out and look for beasts to fight and skin.  Everything is brought back.  Items with value <40 (arbitrary number) become virtual and contribute their value to 'Camp Value'.  The rest are stored within the camp (after having their value contribute as well).  Every <amount of IC time>, a check is made against camp-value to see what milestone they are above.  Camp grows.  Ratio of guards is very low.

City Foragers- Random spawn, but at the gates.  Some go to salt.  Some go to look for obsidian mines.  Some hunt.  Some forage for stone.  Same idea, they return, they turn in their finds, but they contribute to the 'stockpile value' of the city.

Three:  Bring in the Clans!

Arm of the Dragon: Templar wages are impacted by the 'stockpile' value of the city, which is reset each pay period.  Thus, protecting the city's interests influences their pay, regardless of whether someone else is helping them facilitate a plot.  At any given point, they have things that they could be working on because they're already always happening.  A raiding camp has gotten big and started intercepting some caravans?  Protect the caravan, or go try to wipe out the camp.  That spider infestation is suddenly more important, when it's intercepting that obsidian shipment, which has the highest ratio of returns for the templars.  That other templar, though, has alternative incomes from his own intrigue, and so he's not so concerned with it, much to the frustration of that templar who hasn't fostered political connections.

House Borsail: Noble wages are impacted by the number of slaves returned to the city by Borsail Wyverns.  People clanned with Borsail gain a single command that allows them to 'chain up' those with the 'raider' and 'forager' flags.  They turn them in to increase Borsail's income on the next pay period.  This gives the House back its military side, and they once again have things to offer to the templarate as boons, as well as a personal PC force that innately has things to do as well as work on the noble's personal interests, i.e. "I want you guys to protect this person for me" or "If you can, I want this person eliminated.  If you can't do it, I'll contract the guild."  Nobles will innately have people that they want dead, because...

House Oash:
Insert the very small chance of a camp's new henchmen being a mage of a random type.   Insert new behavior in the camp based on if it has a mage and of what type, i.e. Rukkian means the raiding group goes out with buffs, Vivaduan types mean they gain more raiding days, krathi joins the raiding group, etc etc.  Have the Arm receive a bonus to income for executing rogues, have Oashi nobles have the bonus of income from gemming the rogue mages (they become virtual after this).

House Tor:
Much smaller bonuses, but much more consistent.  If Tor helps clear it, the one leading the raid gets prompted on whether or not Tor helped.  Tor might not know it, but if someone isn't getting Tor credit for their assistance, they will be displeased and become obstructionist rather than helpful.  If they find out.  Or some other sort of functionality.

And so on.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Gist of It:  Coded interests and boons provide constant goals and motivations of leaders and provide constant background activity for their underlings.  It brings back 'the recruiting drive' where different houses need -and- want more employees.  Through providing this for the 'go getters' and 'action oriented' people, intrigue and social drive and status become more prevalent once again.  A short-lived character with more involvement can be far more prestigious and valuable than someone who trains all day to become long lived.  People get to choose between cooperation and obstruction with various groups based on their current needs and social standing.  The above is a skeleton:  You could add all sorts of scripts to this to make it more effective, more immersive, more intelligent, etc etc.


While most of them will be large projects, they are also projects that innately -provide content-, and even if there are no players, it makes the world change by small degrees that if players get involved, they can have impacts.  It also takes a lot of work up front, but removes the burden of content generators on both player side and staff side.  There are innate, built in goals to be worked around, and staff can move in and out gracefully to provide alternate goals, or use this system as an indicator of progress (i.e. Oh, as a templar, you could work on that building project if you chose.  Step one is to get labor slaves, which you'll have to either pay Borsail for, work out an arrangement for them to allocate this many slaves, etc etc).

Another example either later today or tomorrow.  But if we use Armageddon's advantage, which is the best roleplayers in the text-based world (pretty much) + a robust code that allows players to work on things on their own and influence things, I think you'll see a big spike in activity and interest from pretty much every demographic of roleplayer.


Edit:  I forgot to add.  Player clans.  Under such systems, they have a lot more opportunities to contribute, especially if you make player-foragers contribute to stockpiles.  They can be mercenaries.  They can turn in resources.  They can build supplies needed by various groups.  They can be caravan guards.  So on and so on.  But first and foremost, eliminating the idea that player clans shouldn't compete with real clans is something that has to be done; if they find a way to not compete, they'll likely thrive, but if they want to compete with other clans in their roles, that only -increases- the motivation for players to react to the actions of other players, making the web of interaction more complete and interesting.  If you have a blanket turn-in place in Red Storm, it will even promote PC raider groups.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2017, 04:16:48 PM by Armaddict »
She wasn't doing a thing that I could see, except standing there leaning on the balcony railing, holding the universe together. --J.D. Salinger

Melkor

  • Posts: 706
Re: Brainstorming
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2017, 05:01:25 PM »
Quote
Caravan- On the delivery date set for each resource, spawn a wagon object.  Attach an escort to it (in the case of Allanaki resources, a small entourage of soldiers is likely).  Have it travel along a set route, with tested movement-rates that make sense for the cargo/average size of shipment.  Each should have it's own delivery 'room', where when it's reached, the 'amount' determined by the counter from the Resource Camp is added to the 'stockpile' of that area.  The items become virtual again.  The stockpile amount is tracked.

Raiding Camp- Randomly spawn. Make it populate with a -small- number of NPC's bearing the 'raider' flag.  One guard, one leader, one member.  Randomly select two raiding days.  Each raiding day, 1 leader takes the henchmen out on a randomly generated path of a certain number of rooms, then when it reaches the end, it generates the shortest path back to their camp location.  Any beasts they encounter, they fight and skin.  Any humanoids they encounter, they attack with similar effect as the 'rinth mugger code; not -meant- to be lethal, but accidents happen, and the intent is to strip them of items.  On return to the camp, items with a value of <300 (arbitrary amount) become virtually sold. Valuable items are stored (after value is added to the camp).  'Camp value', based on what they've 'earned', is tracked, and on milestones they gain new henchmen, new leaders, and new guards.  'Raiders' will attack other raiders if their campID is different, if possible.  Thus, they will grow depending on location and success.

Tribe/Family Camp- Randomly spawn.  Populate with 'forager' NPC's.  Three guards, three foragers, two hunter. Select hunting days.  Every day, foragers find a location within a certain radius to forage for a random resource type.  On hunting days, hunters go out and look for beasts to fight and skin.  Everything is brought back.  Items with value <40 (arbitrary number) become virtual and contribute their value to 'Camp Value'.  The rest are stored within the camp (after having their value contribute as well).  Every <amount of IC time>, a check is made against camp-value to see what milestone they are above.  Camp grows.  Ratio of guards is very low.

City Foragers- Random spawn, but at the gates.  Some go to salt.  Some go to look for obsidian mines.  Some hunt.  Some forage for stone.  Same idea, they return, they turn in their finds, but they contribute to the 'stockpile value' of the city.

Brilliant ideas. 100% on board with these.
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.

Synthesis

  • Posts: 9342
Re: Brainstorming
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2017, 05:20:48 PM »
NPC raiders would be alright, but there'd have to be a bunch of anti-powergaming factors built in.

E.g.

1.  No gear that PCs can get rich off of (similar to gith gear).
2.  Not acting like dummies vs. ranged attacks.
3.  Not acting like dummies vs. magick.

However, I have a feeling that eventually players would just realize that crit-wounding without killing the raider NPCs will result in them not respawning, so over an uptime, the game world will become progressively more littered with camps full of mortally-wounded naked raiders.

Overall, it sounds like a lot of fun, don't get me wrong.  But whew...I can't even imagine the code trickery required to get all those moving parts to actually work together without shit getting straight retarded.
Quote from: WarriorPoet
I play this game to pretend to chop muthafuckaz up with bone swords.
Quote from: Smuz
I come to the GDB to roleplay being deep and wise.
Quote from: Vanth
Synthesis, you scare me a little bit.

Armaddict

  • Posts: 5832
Re: Brainstorming
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2017, 05:23:53 PM »
I'm not really in to argue the ins and outs of the example.

I'm more involved in the principal of additions to the game being 'base level' code that is actual content generation for players to take a bite out of and incentivizes them into activity, as well as providing roles for people to play from various different goal-oriented perspectives.  I think this kind of approach to modifications of the game is more healthy than content removal.

Everyone's doing a great job.  I appreciate the work of staff, and the contributions of players.  But the direction we've been moving in does kind of make me feel like I'm playing Skyrim with poor AI and the Greybeards, instead of shouting 'DO-VAH-KEEEEN', shouting 'TEA PARTY AT WIIIIINTERHOOOOLD'.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2017, 05:25:29 PM by Armaddict »
She wasn't doing a thing that I could see, except standing there leaning on the balcony railing, holding the universe together. --J.D. Salinger

Harmless

  • Posts: 2616
Re: Brainstorming
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2017, 06:07:17 PM »
Back in the day there was more to do in a lot of clans because of a constant feeling of competing with other players. Everything had an opposite or competing parallel side to it: even within GMHs, there were north and south divisions, there were competing allanaki military divisions (arm AND wyverns or tor) tuluki military divisions (militia vs legion) multiple tribal humans, elves.. and then those multigroups could form alliances, say sun runners and arabeti both hating on gypsies (random example) or militia from tuluk making ties with some Kuracis that the legionnaires are too stuck up to bother with.

A lot of EvilOne's suggestions are good arguments for why reopening those clans (every major clan role has both a "frienemy" and true enemies) would really stimulate more interest in the roles themselves. Being more likely to interact is nice, but if we all end up feeling forced to be allies or simple enemies because of a lack of diversity within role types to create this less than friendly competition, then the interactions become more bland and predictable.

As for the playerbase, we don't have to try all of them at once, and staff could probably use their oversight to herd us into the right places more often than not. Facilitating ooc communication enough to enable planning for roles more openly would ensure that roles get filled, rather than the current "surprise, now you can be this, but you have to store your character now, and your buddy who wanted to do this role with you last year is currently unavailable" kinda thing.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2017, 06:18:28 PM by Harmless »
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Akaramu

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Re: Brainstorming
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2017, 07:45:51 PM »
Full elementalists.

Full elementalists.

Full elementalists.

Maybe I can think of something else later.  :P

Melkor

  • Posts: 706
Re: Brainstorming
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2017, 07:52:32 PM »
Full elementalists.

Full elementalists.

Full elementalists.

Maybe I can think of something else later.  :P

My old friend, known here as Briar, has expressed that the change to magick classes are a major reason why she has no interest in playing/staffing anymore.
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.

Akaramu

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Re: Brainstorming
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2017, 06:27:14 AM »
Full elementalists.

Full elementalists.

Full elementalists.

Maybe I can think of something else later.  :P

My old friend, known here as Briar, has expressed that the change to magick classes are a major reason why she has no interest in playing/staffing anymore.

I enjoy my current PC, but I don't know if I'll keep playing after that one.

Cind

  • Posts: 1221
Re: Brainstorming
« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2017, 06:51:36 AM »
"An actual enemy that challenges Allanak." What about a rogue, perhaps a duo or trio, that has somehow gotten ahold of immortality (or at least not dying, perhaps becoming very old and just staying like that, like immortals in the Fable games.) Or just normal raiders (to increase hiring capabilities.) These would be npcs who have a bone to pick with the city, occasionally sojourn to Storm for supplies and perhaps recruits, and just in general are so good at hiding that they never get caught?

But their subordinates, the pc rogues (secret or no, depending) and human traitors and muls, they'd get caught, big-time. But they'd at least have more interaction (for the rogues anyway) and more fun for longer.

In reality, the group would be run by what amounts to assistant managers. They answer to the Top Two or Top Three, but they are the leadership presence that pcs deal with.

No bribing the city. It should be theoretically possible for a raiding group to exist for more than a year without having to bribe the city.

Another thing this would add is Storm actually being more to Allanak than a weak-fisted, generic "them" that offers good prices for flour. Antagonism between the two regions feels like it has no teeth. Storm backing a group that poses a genuine threat to Allanak would be more fitting for the vibes. That's why I say take away the bribes. Find some sort of metagame-proof foundation for the raiders to stand on that doesn't involve bowing to the might of Allanak.
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Lizzie

  • Posts: 7359
Re: Brainstorming
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2017, 08:33:21 AM »
Once upon a time, there was a raider group of NPCs that decided to wreak havoc near Allanak. Within a couple of RL months it was destroyed by PCs. The end.

That's pretty much how antagonist NPC groups go. It's great for a little while, but once it's gone, there's that typical let-down feeling of "this was just another contrived plotline to give us something to do, because there really isn't anything to do." That isn't really how it is, but it is how it feels when those types of plotlines end.

Then there was the shooting star thing. Was that related to the elemental guild split? If it was related to anything else, I still am clueless and again - just seems like an attempt at a big, bold deus ex machina to a mysterious, obscure plot. If it was related to the guild split, I would've loved to have heard the temple NPCs talking about it when I played a mage during that time. Surely they would've had something to say to their students/adherents.

As for "spreading the game too thin" by adding more clans, I don't think that'll happen. Our *active* playerbase was around the same 15 years ago as it is now, and there were lots more clans, and there was lots more happening. Granted, the staff was lots more "hands on" and drove lots more of the plotlines. But I don't see why that should be a problem. That's what storytellers are for. To tell the stories that the players can run with.

My first character ever in Arm:  Veddi Muark was - Veddi Muark. Pearl wasn't yet Lord Borsail's aide, she was still with what's-his-name the Red, and spewing custom silk clothing out of her ass by the dozens. I don't think Quick the First had been invented yet. My newbie burglar was immediately taken under the wing of another commoner, who just happened to serve a templar. Templar hired my girl as an Aide. She ended up overseeing a kid who was turned into a slave for doing some kind of thing I can't even remember anymore, some other player new to Armageddon. Meanwhile, Tuluk was JUST destroyed, the Rebellion was hella active, Sargax Kurac was running Luir's, and a staff-run Guild boss convinced my gullible noob self to take a walk with him. He invised and floated her into the Rinth, inducted her, and told her that she's his bitch now. Templar she worked for ran off, she was now working for Oash, which had several mages and a couple of elites in it. Tor also was active with a noble, a couple of Scorpions, and a gemmed drovian. Kadius was mostly up in what was left of Tuluk, up in Freil's Rest.

My girl got whacked by her guild boss eventually. Pretty sure Kurac contracted that PK. Either way it was my most memorable and favorite death.

My next character was with Kurac, got a reputation for being a super scary assassin even though she'd never killed anyone.  She was hired just before Danu (Seeker's first character) was hired.  She was also a member of their Special Ops and had all kinds of insane experiences including secret meetings with a secret mindbender who was based out of Allanak. She was assassinated by her boyfriend, who was an Outrider, per orders of either Sargax or the Kurac Senior Somethingorother.

The reason I mention all of this is to show how EASY it was for a brand new player to get involved in all kinds of crazy shit, from the moment they stepped out of chargen, back when there weren't any more players than there are now, but there were a lot more clans, and secret clans-within-clans, ready and waiting to "snatch the newbie" into their clan and groom them for greatness (or destruction).

I'm not seeing much of that these days. I'd like to see more of it, but that would require going back to certain things we had then, that we don't have now. Like - more opened clans, some secret clans-within-clans, full elementalist guilds, full-sorcs (even if they're secret staff-picked sponsored roles), full Nilaz guild. My experience proves to me that the negative connotation of "diluting the clans" by making more of them with a limited playerbase, isn't a thing at all.
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BadSkeelz

  • Posts: 8173
Re: Brainstorming
« Reply #15 on: April 19, 2017, 01:29:46 PM »
Once upon a time, there was a raider group of NPCs that decided to wreak havoc near Allanak. Within a couple of RL months it was destroyed by PCs. The end.

That's pretty much how antagonist NPC groups go. It's great for a little while, but once it's gone, there's that typical let-down feeling of "this was just another contrived plotline to give us something to do, because there really isn't anything to do." That isn't really how it is, but it is how it feels when those types of plotlines end.

Then there was the shooting star thing. Was that related to the elemental guild split? If it was related to anything else, I still am clueless and again - just seems like an attempt at a big, bold deus ex machina to a mysterious, obscure plot. If it was related to the guild split, I would've loved to have heard the temple NPCs talking about it when I played a mage during that time. Surely they would've had something to say to their students/adherents.

As for "spreading the game too thin" by adding more clans, I don't think that'll happen. Our *active* playerbase was around the same 15 years ago as it is now, and there were lots more clans, and there was lots more happening. Granted, the staff was lots more "hands on" and drove lots more of the plotlines. But I don't see why that should be a problem. That's what storytellers are for. To tell the stories that the players can run with.

The shooting star didn't really have anything to do with magick (despite appearances) and certainly not anything to do with the Mage Guild split. I could speculate on what it was actually about, what the goal was and what the OOC/IC fallout has been but it's only been eight months. It certainly wasn't an errant nuclear missile launch from the Vestric Space Station.

But maybe they should have been related. Plots that give IC justification to the world evolving help keep people invested in the end game narrative, rather than caught up in the OOC machinations behind such changes. Seidhr once said "Arm is about the journey instead of the destination" but right now I don't feel like there's much journeying to be done in game. The game world doesn't seem to be going anywhere.
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Molten Heart

  • Posts: 1745
Re: Brainstorming
« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2017, 02:32:59 PM »
Sometimes it seems that the means to maintain the status quo strangles off conflict. And the problem with this is that the game thrives on conflict. I think a welcome addition to the game would be more conflict that doesn't rely on players to initiate (being the change) because players shouldn't be required to put their characters at risk by being the lynchpin to an upstart conflict, putting a target on their back. Players being the change and initiating their own things make the game much better, but it should be supplementary sources of conflict.

The conflict could be something that any player could take sides on (even secretly) and be involved with without having to have special connections (though they'd certainly help). Something that players both wouldn't be required to participate in, and something that's going to be institutional enough it isn't easily squashed by another group in the game.

Essentially this would need to be something that would fall within the realm of the story of Zalanthas. Something that happens simultaneously that isn't just the sum of all the player stories interacting, but also the active story of the virtual world, while entangling and encompassing the stories of the players, it exists independently and continues on consistently even without interaction with players (even though it's goal would be for players to involve themselves, which is going to happen.)

nauta

  • Posts: 2113
Re: Brainstorming
« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2017, 02:58:02 PM »
Tell beautiful stories.
as IF you didn't just have them unconscious, naked, and helpless in the street 4 minutes ago

Dresan

  • Posts: 1149
Re: Brainstorming
« Reply #18 on: April 22, 2017, 06:37:34 PM »
The economy was mentioned so just going to throw this in here.

In less than 30 mins after a crash all shops buying scrab legs are already stocked full.

I won't argue the 5 limit per shop thing, but would still love to see a 1-5 sid per item bits and bites shop. It would also solve the issue with guts and hides littering the floors.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2017, 07:25:31 PM by Dresan »
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Barsook

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Re: Brainstorming
« Reply #19 on: April 22, 2017, 06:53:47 PM »
but would still love to see a 1-5 sid per item bits and bites shop. It would also solve the issue with guts and hides littering the floors.

Cind

  • Posts: 1221
Re: Brainstorming
« Reply #20 on: April 25, 2017, 03:32:55 AM »
A shop in Allanak that sells coffee beans, tea leaves, teapots, percolators (an old-fashioned coffee brewer) and cups. You'd think this would be a thing for people who could afford plant-juice. I know I've seen espresso before.

Fleshing out the rinth. Making it possible to survive just in the rinth without having to be a Guild member. (I've never played, but I imagine they get sent out sometimes anyway.) Seeing rinthis out hunting and grebbing kind of feels a little weird. Maybe its just me. I've seen people post this one before. Honestly, the only reason half of them aren't salting and mining sid/glass is probably because they'd have to give it to the city. If someone is living in the rinth and never leaving, and they aren't in a gang, you're going to start suspecting them of being a witch.
Look, a petting tregil.  So silky...Feel him.

Armaddict

  • Posts: 5832
Re: Brainstorming
« Reply #21 on: April 25, 2017, 03:07:20 PM »
Quote
Seeing rinthis out hunting and grebbing kind of feels a little weird.

The vast majority of 'commerce' in the 'rinth is based on business and ventures outside of the alleys.  If you want to be totally isolationist, it is entirely possible given what's there, but as far as those who never wander out, that's kind of a role for the vNPC's.

Not that I disagree with fleshing out the labyrinth, but only if it's done in a way that fights the mentality that the labyrinth is a rebel state of Allanak rather than the unpatrolled, redheaded stepchild slum of it.  The difference is that one is the state saying it doesn't care and shirking it, and so it learns to govern itself.  The other makes it some aggressively defended faction, which is not true to history.  The moment people started expecting 'rinthers to play as isolated characters that were traitors if they brought in coin from elsewhere, the narrative got pretty skewed.
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Cind

  • Posts: 1221
Re: Brainstorming
« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2017, 05:21:33 AM »
The idea of 'what rinthis should be doing' has always been unclear in my mind.

A stall to which you can sell anything from chaltons, vultures and silt hawks for pittances, like an official last stop shop, which then turns around and crafts different items from the objects for a cheap or medium price since those things are so common and easy to hunt.

You could throw in a few things already made in the database like the ivory strigil, and have other things like chalton gloves (which I have -never- seen), chalton boots, chalton armor, feather jewelry. I always liked those twists of two different color feathers. Black vulture and grey hawk feather twists should be relatively common among hunters but I've never ever seen it.

This shop would take five each of item every real-life day, rather than every reboot. Materials made from those animals alone should be more widespread, I think, and their cost should endear them more to a poor people who might not be able to afford salt worm teeth and mekillot hide.
Look, a petting tregil.  So silky...Feel him.

Cind

  • Posts: 1221
Re: Brainstorming
« Reply #23 on: April 26, 2017, 06:01:24 AM »
What I mean by a pittance is like what someone else suggested; 1-5 sids per take, with most items being one or two sids and perhaps ivory being five. This might make it the place to go to unload ivory but it should be considered valuable. Maybe toss in scrab legs; but not scrab shell, because they don't deal in good stuff like that.

My thinking is that the city is large enough to accommodate the leavings of all the pc hunters playing, even though the city feels smaller because most of it is virtual.
Look, a petting tregil.  So silky...Feel him.

Cind

  • Posts: 1221
Re: Brainstorming
« Reply #24 on: April 26, 2017, 02:40:01 PM »
Racial crafting.

Its not really racial, its culture-based, but with the strong racism in the game they are practically the same thing.

If you are an elf, you can make elf-specific crafts if you have the right crafting skills. Humans, human. Half-elves can choose whether they want to know more about human or elven crafting, so that secret breeds can stay secret and you can guess who raised the half-elf from what they can craft. I'm not sure dwarves are common enough to have a solid culture with actual trends.
Look, a petting tregil.  So silky...Feel him.