Author Topic: Communism for Kids  (Read 6796 times)

Melkor

  • Posts: 783
Communism for Kids
« on: April 15, 2017, 01:04:28 PM »
https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/communism-kids

Jesus fucking christ. The former Soviet Union would only have DREAMED of publishing this level of propaganda on US soil a few decades back.
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Marc

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Yam

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Re: Communism for Kids
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2017, 01:42:36 PM »

Melkor

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Re: Communism for Kids
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2017, 01:50:19 PM »
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Antony+c+sutton

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Reece+committee

Yeah, the US made a great deal of money off of the Soviet Union by funding/supporting many of their endeavors, your point?



I DONT LIKE THEM PUTTING CHEMICALS IN THE WATER AND TURNING THE FREAKIN' FROGS GAY!!!!111
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.

MeTekillot

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Re: Communism for Kids
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2017, 04:59:22 PM »
Seize the means of production.
Where have you buried the body, MeTekillot?

boog

  • Posts: 10455
Re: Communism for Kids
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2017, 06:13:09 PM »
Maybe the kids who read this will grow into adults who know the difference between socialism, Communism, and Marxism now.

Win win.
Case: he's more likely to shoot up a mcdonalds for selling secret obama sauce on its big macs
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Melkor

  • Posts: 783
Re: Communism for Kids
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2017, 06:41:44 PM »
Maybe the kids who read this will grow into adults who know the difference between socialism, Communism, and Marxism now.

Win win.

An encyclopedia could accomplish this, without the staggering bias.
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.

Marauder Moe

  • Posts: 12518
Re: Communism for Kids
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2017, 07:03:39 PM »
Does this thing seriously offend you that much?  Like... it's just a book, man.

Melkor

  • Posts: 783
Re: Communism for Kids
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2017, 07:53:33 PM »
Does this thing seriously offend you that much?  Like... it's just a book, man.

Think, for a moment, of the number of lives which have been snuffed out by nations with communist, socialist, and Marxist socioeconomic ideologies/policies. Then think whether or not you would like your children, or your neighbor's children, growing up with a positive outlook on these ideologies fed to them in school.

Now, think about the state our country is in, when one of the most prestigious technical universities in our nation is publishing this type of propaganda with the explicit intent of teaching children that failed ideologies and policies are a good thing when they are successfully implemented; think of your children being taught such ideologies in school, when a facet of Marxist ideology regards the breakdown of the family unit in favor of the collective.
I truly hope that my children's understanding of history, and the morals instilled in them are strong enough to be able to recognize such propaganda for what it is, though I am not so arrogant as to think I will be the perfect father.

I will firmly oppose any who seek/advocate to take possession of my body, or the fruit of my labor.

Regarding the fact that it is "just a book," as you put it. Yes, it is just a book, and I am not one in favor of censorship of any kind. However, I am in favor of media, art, and ideas being judged and analyzed by the court of public opinion, and I will readily give my opinion regarding any piece of writing, art, film, or music, as it is my right to do so.
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.

boog

  • Posts: 10455
Re: Communism for Kids
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2017, 07:56:00 PM »
We should also consider the deaths that capitalism has been directly or indirectly responsible for if we're going that route.
Case: he's more likely to shoot up a mcdonalds for selling secret obama sauce on its big macs
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BadSkeelz: Whatever you say, Kim Jong Boog
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Melkor

  • Posts: 783
Re: Communism for Kids
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2017, 08:00:49 PM »
We should also consider the deaths that capitalism has been directly or indirectly responsible for if we're going that route.

Go for it. Put the death-toll from Mussolini, Hitler, Stalin, and many others, in addition to all of the european deaths found: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties

next to the evil capitalist deaths.
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.

Marauder Moe

  • Posts: 12518
Re: Communism for Kids
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2017, 08:21:26 PM »
I get it, man.  I'm no communist either.  (Though I do think we've gone too far on capitalism and need a bit more of a socialist balance to our country.)

It just seems silly to get worked up over a book.  You've done far more to expose me to it's existence than anything else.  It only seems to be a handful of right-wing news websites covering its publication.  It's got poor reviews on Amazon and is hardly flying off the shelves.

boog

  • Posts: 10455
Re: Communism for Kids
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2017, 09:23:50 PM »
We should also consider the deaths that capitalism has been directly or indirectly responsible for if we're going that route.

Go for it. Put the death-toll from Mussolini, Hitler, Stalin, and many others, in addition to all of the european deaths found: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties

next to the evil capitalist deaths.

There are very few communists up there.
Case: he's more likely to shoot up a mcdonalds for selling secret obama sauce on its big macs
Kismet: didn't see you in GQ homey
BadSkeelz: Whatever you say, Kim Jong Boog
Quote from: Tuannon
There is only one boog.

whitt

  • Posts: 1639
Re: Communism for Kids
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2017, 09:39:37 PM »
Maybe the kids who read this will grow into adults who know the difference between socialism, Communism, and Marxism now.

Win win.

I'll be satisfied for a generation that recognizes communism as an economic system and democracy as a political system.  So Communism vs Democracy... just no.
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Patuk

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Re: Communism for Kids
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2017, 09:43:16 PM »
lol
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HavokBlue

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Re: Communism for Kids
« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2017, 09:47:35 PM »
nobody tell melkor about rojava
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Is Friday

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Re: Communism for Kids
« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2017, 11:17:56 PM »
Flippin commies.
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MeTekillot

  • Posts: 9207
Re: Communism for Kids
« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2017, 11:30:45 PM »
Is the genocide of native Americans a capitalist or imperialist thing?
Where have you buried the body, MeTekillot?

Armaddict

  • Posts: 5895
Re: Communism for Kids
« Reply #18 on: April 16, 2017, 12:29:33 AM »
You should probably actually read the ideas behind it before just spewing things out.  In communist -principle-, your labor is directed, not stolen.  You maintain professions and have it retooled to benefit the whole of society.  Supply and demand still exists, it's just monitored and tweaked by the state to maintain the highest standard of living for the maximum amount of people.  This has never been carried out successfully (though mormons in early Utah actually did a pretty damn good job of it).  The purpose is more to eliminate social castes/classes than equalize pay (edit:  To clarify, wealth redistribution shouldn't exist, because the purpose of wealth is supposed to be obsolete in a well-functioning system where everyone benefits from all production and trade).  Likewise, the idea is for the arts to flourish, since there's no such thing as 'the struggling artist'.

Capitalism itself has inherent flaws and proneness to corruption/manipulation.  If you believe we have a well-functioning capitalism in the United States, you should actually read The Wealth of Nations.  Ya know.  The book by Adam Smith that describes it.  We've actually deviated pretty far from it, and it's not due to regulation, it's due to incentives for resisting the open flow of currency.  A true capitalism depends on the same drive we have to push into the life of luxury, but makes the general assumption that most will fall short but not devastatingly so.  Our current state has shifted away from production and into services that have to provide for a lot of people, allowing for amenities but also allowing for vast exploitation of the working class.  We've enjoyed a lot of success due to government spending, i.e. the government directing production and research via grants and contracts.  That's not a capitalist behavior, but it's working to our benefit.

I think capitalism is probably the greatest innovation that humanity has come up with, to date, because it rewards incentives towards individual gain which resonates with people -as they were-.  If the majority of the populace becomes more in tune with thinking of the whole, then it becomes more and more dysfunctional, as there are less people engaging in the motivations it depends on.  Really, it comes down to whether or not you trust the private sector's (and common citizen's) desire for personal gain to be more trustworthy than the state's responsibility to provide for people, and those will vary drastically with people's experiences and perceptions. (edit here: I should note that I don't support 'pushes' for socialism/communism, but I do recognize that there will be a slide in that direction as more and more people inevitably 'fall off the bottom rung' of a dysfunctional capitalism; at some point or another, there will be a change in thought as efficiency becomes the determining factor of profit.  Automation makes sense.  So does cutting down the fat on the workforce.  Entrepreneurship, the arts, and cultural endeavors all spring out of this, as long as they are taken care of during that time, which falls on either the state, the populace, or wealthy patrons.  People need to realize that historically speaking, some of the biggest leaps in our capabilities were not born from monetary incentive, but idle hands that were allowed to pursue their interests rather than someone else's.)

So really, I'm kinda meh on your distaste for the book.  People being more aware of alternatives really ain't bothering me none.  I'm pro-education in all forms, so long as you can filter through the propoganda on both sides and learn how to investigate.


Side note:  You brought up Stalin, because he was an absolute travesty.  I'm not sure you're aware of how distasteful he was to the proponents of socialism/communism at the time, and how hard Lenin actually worked in his final years to try to prevent him from coming to power.  Using him as the poster child actually equivocates to using Mussolini as a poster child for capitalism, because you again seem to be mixed up: Fascist states are capitalist dictatorships.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2017, 01:24:46 AM by Armaddict »
She wasn't doing a thing that I could see, except standing there leaning on the balcony railing, holding the universe together. --J.D. Salinger

Melkor

  • Posts: 783
Re: Communism for Kids
« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2017, 04:14:21 AM »
I get it, man.  I'm no communist either.  (Though I do think we've gone too far on capitalism and need a bit more of a socialist balance to our country.)

It just seems silly to get worked up over a book.  You've done far more to expose me to it's existence than anything else.  It only seems to be a handful of right-wing news websites covering its publication.  It's got poor reviews on Amazon and is hardly flying off the shelves.

Too capitalist? Our economy is more socialistic than ever. We have welfare, wic, food stamps, medicare, medicaid, subsidized EVERYTHING. We are taxed when we earn money. We are taxed when we spend money. We are taxed for land that WE OWN.
Not only that, we don't have a damned say on where this money is spent.

I understand your implication that sensationalism is providing more publicity than it would normally attract. I do not care if people buy the book. However, if this book is found in your child's school one day, I hope you take notice.

There are very few communists up there.

If you read the statement to which you replied with amassing death-tolls, I clearly stated:
Think, for a moment, of the number of lives which have been snuffed out by nations with communist, socialist, and Marxist socioeconomic ideologies/policies.

nobody tell melkor about rojava

Why? It is known that Communism and Socialism work well in homogeneous tribes. Shit, Socialism worked great for the Nazi Party. Have you ever seen Adolf Hitler's speeches on German Socialism? It sounds fucking beautiful. Good luck achieving that with a melting-pot of cultures, races, and ideologies. Also, good luck having a leader/senate/mob who's will is not to cause harm.

Is the genocide of native Americans a capitalist or imperialist thing?
Hmmmm. That is debatable. I mean, the initial explorers and conquistadors were acting under order of their respective Monarch... However, you know for damned sure they (the royals and the explorers/conquerers) knew they would get paaaaaid.

Let us say, for argument's sake, that the genocide of the Native American people was caused by Capitalism. After all, greed, amirite guise?

So, how many dead Natives were slaughtered by other (communist) Natives long before we arrived?


You should probably actually read the ideas behind it before just spewing things out.  In communist -principle-, your labor is directed, not stolen.  You maintain professions and have it retooled to benefit the whole of society.  Supply and demand still exists, it's just monitored and tweaked by the state to maintain the highest standard of living for the maximum amount of people.  This has never been carried out successfully (though mormons in early Utah actually did a pretty damn good job of it).  The purpose is more to eliminate social castes/classes than equalize pay (edit:  To clarify, wealth redistribution shouldn't exist, because the purpose of wealth is supposed to be obsolete in a well-functioning system where everyone benefits from all production and trade).  Likewise, the idea is for the arts to flourish, since there's no such thing as 'the struggling artist'.

Capitalism itself has inherent flaws and proneness to corruption/manipulation.  If you believe we have a well-functioning capitalism in the United States, you should actually read The Wealth of Nations.  Ya know.  The book by Adam Smith that describes it.  We've actually deviated pretty far from it, and it's not due to regulation, it's due to incentives for resisting the open flow of currency.  A true capitalism depends on the same drive we have to push into the life of luxury, but makes the general assumption that most will fall short but not devastatingly so.  Our current state has shifted away from production and into services that have to provide for a lot of people, allowing for amenities but also allowing for vast exploitation of the working class.  We've enjoyed a lot of success due to government spending, i.e. the government directing production and research via grants and contracts.  That's not a capitalist behavior, but it's working to our benefit.

I think capitalism is probably the greatest innovation that humanity has come up with, to date, because it rewards incentives towards individual gain which resonates with people -as they were-.  If the majority of the populace becomes more in tune with thinking of the whole, then it becomes more and more dysfunctional, as there are less people engaging in the motivations it depends on.  Really, it comes down to whether or not you trust the private sector's (and common citizen's) desire for personal gain to be more trustworthy than the state's responsibility to provide for people, and those will vary drastically with people's experiences and perceptions. (edit here: I should note that I don't support 'pushes' for socialism/communism, but I do recognize that there will be a slide in that direction as more and more people inevitably 'fall off the bottom rung' of a dysfunctional capitalism; at some point or another, there will be a change in thought as efficiency becomes the determining factor of profit.  Automation makes sense.  So does cutting down the fat on the workforce.  Entrepreneurship, the arts, and cultural endeavors all spring out of this, as long as they are taken care of during that time, which falls on either the state, the populace, or wealthy patrons.  People need to realize that historically speaking, some of the biggest leaps in our capabilities were not born from monetary incentive, but idle hands that were allowed to pursue their interests rather than someone else's.)

So really, I'm kinda meh on your distaste for the book.  People being more aware of alternatives really ain't bothering me none.  I'm pro-education in all forms, so long as you can filter through the propoganda on both sides and learn how to investigate.


Side note:  You brought up Stalin, because he was an absolute travesty.  I'm not sure you're aware of how distasteful he was to the proponents of socialism/communism at the time, and how hard Lenin actually worked in his final years to try to prevent him from coming to power.  Using him as the poster child actually equivocates to using Mussolini as a poster child for capitalism, because you again seem to be mixed up: Fascist states are capitalist dictatorships.


It will take a few moments, so I'll reply to you after work. I clock in at 5:00, I clock out at 18:00-19:00.
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.

Synthesis

  • Posts: 9368
Re: Communism for Kids
« Reply #20 on: April 16, 2017, 04:27:55 AM »
Quote from: John Rogers
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.
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Melkor

  • Posts: 783
Re: Communism for Kids
« Reply #21 on: April 16, 2017, 04:40:59 AM »
Quote from: John Rogers
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.

Lol.

You are only partially right, friend. The Lord of the Rings changed my life, but I read it in 4th and 5th grade. I could never bring myself to get far into Atlas Shrugged.
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.

Armaddict

  • Posts: 5895
Re: Communism for Kids
« Reply #22 on: April 16, 2017, 05:46:42 AM »
Quote
It will take a few moments, so I'll reply to you after work. I clock in at 5:00, I clock out at 18:00-19:00.

It should be noted that socialism/communism is kinda hard to really talk about because of how many versions there are of them.  They tend to be talked about more in philosophy than economics despite being economic platforms because they're more of a paradigm/perspective shift than something you're supposed to 'implement', due to their requiring everyone to have a mindset for it to work (much the same way capitalism depends on you to be self-interested over group-interested, something that's only been overcome in the past by group hardship and tribe mentalities).

Marx himself once said he was not a marxist, because the marxist movement was a political one and he wasn't into politics.  But Hegel's early work kind of started the flame of the idea, and can be summed up here with neato sound effects.

She wasn't doing a thing that I could see, except standing there leaning on the balcony railing, holding the universe together. --J.D. Salinger

boog

  • Posts: 10455
Re: Communism for Kids
« Reply #23 on: April 16, 2017, 09:13:41 AM »

There are very few communists up there.

If you read the statement to which you replied with amassing death-tolls, I clearly stated:
Think, for a moment, of the number of lives which have been snuffed out by nations with communist, socialist, and Marxist socioeconomic ideologies/policies.

But... The Nazis were as socialist as North Korea is a Democratic Republic.

They weren't.

Facsism is on the other side of the political spectrum. Nazis hated communism.

Edit: Clearly, this is what I was replying to:

We should also consider the deaths that capitalism has been directly or indirectly responsible for if we're going that route.

Go for it. Put the death-toll from Mussolini, Hitler, Stalin, and many others, in addition to all of the european deaths found: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties

next to the evil capitalist deaths.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2017, 10:36:29 AM by boog »
Case: he's more likely to shoot up a mcdonalds for selling secret obama sauce on its big macs
Kismet: didn't see you in GQ homey
BadSkeelz: Whatever you say, Kim Jong Boog
Quote from: Tuannon
There is only one boog.

8bitgrandpa

  • Posts: 314
Re: Communism for Kids
« Reply #24 on: April 16, 2017, 09:59:20 AM »
This was very fun to read during my breakfast  ;D
Patuk, you and 8bit are my favorite.