Author Topic: What Do Elves Do!?!  (Read 2233 times)

Harmless

  • Posts: 2628
Re: What Do Elves Do!?!
« Reply #25 on: February 15, 2017, 08:09:52 AM »
I still play as elves and enjoy them. Desert or city elf. They are both good. Unlike gemmed roleplay which really does come down to "fuck you and die," the playerbase seems to "get" elves more now. They do have a place.

As for how to get rich as an elf, play as one. Wisdom and agility are pretty handy for a life as a craftsman or even as a local-city hunter as was said. Seeing as a few hundred coins can get food and water, good. Seeing as elves do tend to form groups/families then that is also good.

My one complaint over elf realism is the "two keys per apartment" rule. But fuck, at least some of the elves in the fam should learn how to pop a lock. I say c elves should branch pick eventually at a super low cap (off steal I guess), just enough to bust into a few locks in each city in the lowest tier tenements. Then you can have four or five elves all stuffed into one poor ass apartment living off ratmeat and grey water and fine elven "tea." In other words, totally badass and also realistic to the setting.
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bardlyone

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Re: What Do Elves Do!?!
« Reply #26 on: February 15, 2017, 09:06:27 AM »
My one complaint over elf realism is the "two keys per apartment" rule. But fuck, at least some of the elves in the fam should learn how to pop a lock. I say c elves should branch pick eventually at a super low cap (off steal I guess), just enough to bust into a few locks in each city in the lowest tier tenements. Then you can have four or five elves all stuffed into one poor ass apartment living off ratmeat and grey water and fine elven "tea." In other words, totally badass and also realistic to the setting.

I still remember when you could have 4 people on the lease on average. I've never gotten over this change, because in a world of wildly impoverished people, even in a world where just some people are wildly poor and it isn't "first world" living standards for commoners it makes no sense. That's not even the ability for an entire family/tribe rolecall of people to be able to live together on a lease. Or any relationship worth of people that isn't monogamous. Or a couple with a kid. Or a person and their mate and a friend. It's just kind of insane.
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Riev

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Re: What Do Elves Do!?!
« Reply #27 on: February 15, 2017, 09:22:25 AM »
Related, though, is the fact that 4 people were running full blown mini-clans out of 2room apartments because 4 people could be leased, and at the time there weren't weight restrictions (thanks dwarf in Tuluk for stowing bags on bags on bags of bone swords on your balcony!)

Nothing says you can't leave your door unlocked, and have your family sneak past the front guard, but that's a bit foolish as well. Maybe after <2> leases, you can add "visitor" flags for people that can come see you, but they don't get a key? I know I would sure as shit like being able to walk into a tenement and knock on my friend's door. The guards don't block the REAL issues as much as patrollers would, anyway.
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Molten Heart

  • Posts: 1842
Re: What Do Elves Do!?!
« Reply #28 on: February 17, 2017, 05:08:17 AM »
So you want more people in your apartment? It'd be cool if the price of rent was tied to the number of tenants, having rent increase as the number of tenants increases. Don't want to pay a lot? Just rent the place by yourself.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2017, 05:12:08 AM by Molten Heart »

Akaramu

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Re: What Do Elves Do!?!
« Reply #29 on: February 17, 2017, 07:03:42 AM »
So you want more people in your apartment? It'd be cool if the price of rent was tied to the number of tenants, having rent increase as the number of tenants increases. Don't want to pay a lot? Just rent the place by yourself.

That wouldn't make sense from a business perspective. Landlords want to make the same amount of money from the same amount of owned buildings every month. Why would anyone charge less for a nice house  because there's only one person living in it?

Molten Heart

  • Posts: 1842
Re: What Do Elves Do!?!
« Reply #30 on: February 17, 2017, 07:30:43 AM »
So you want more people in your apartment? It'd be cool if the price of rent was tied to the number of tenants, having rent increase as the number of tenants increases. Don't want to pay a lot? Just rent the place by yourself.

That wouldn't make sense from a business perspective. Landlords want to make the same amount of money from the same amount of owned buildings every month. Why would anyone charge less for a nice house  because there's only one person living in it?

I'm suggesting if there's more than one person living in an apartment, that the rent just goes up from the base price. No discounts for less tenants, just rent increases for more tenants.

Like this. If you rent an apartment for 500 for a half month. If you want to add someone, that's 200 more. Another person is 200 more. Maybe the rent increase goes up 150% per additional tenant so the third person living an apartment would cost 300 more and the 4 would be 400 more, so if you've got 4 people living an apartment the rent is 500+200+300+400=1400 a every half month.

The basic idea is that additional tenants means additional rent paid from the base.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2017, 07:38:12 AM by Molten Heart »

Lutagar

  • Posts: 263
Re: What Do Elves Do!?!
« Reply #31 on: February 17, 2017, 07:39:08 AM »
Yeah but these are Zalanthas landlords who'd rather leave a room unoccupied than rent it out to someone who dares to already have an apartment with a competitor because reasons. They don't care about what's profitable.

Feco

  • Posts: 1778
Re: What Do Elves Do!?!
« Reply #32 on: February 17, 2017, 07:41:56 AM »
I feel like people don't say this enough when it comes to suggestions:

I'm happy the way it is.
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Miradus

  • Posts: 1758
Re: What Do Elves Do!?!
« Reply #33 on: February 17, 2017, 07:47:28 AM »

I'm happy I'm not the guy living in the apartment below 43 dwarves who come in from grebbing all day and sing drinking songs all night.

Akaramu

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Re: What Do Elves Do!?!
« Reply #34 on: February 17, 2017, 08:28:52 AM »

I'm suggesting if there's more than one person living in an apartment, that the rent just goes up from the base price. No discounts for less tenants, just rent increases for more tenants.

Like this. If you rent an apartment for 500 for a half month. If you want to add someone, that's 200 more. Another person is 200 more. Maybe the rent increase goes up 150% per additional tenant so the third person living an apartment would cost 300 more and the 4 would be 400 more, so if you've got 4 people living an apartment the rent is 500+200+300+400=1400 a every half month.

The basic idea is that additional tenants means additional rent paid from the base.

Then a lot (and I mean a LOT) of VNPCs would be homeless. The only reason they can afford a roof over their heads is because they share the costs for the base rent.

Molten Heart

  • Posts: 1842
Re: What Do Elves Do!?!
« Reply #35 on: February 17, 2017, 08:42:34 AM »
I don't think it's fair to apply the same standards of PCs to VNPCs. If we did, VNPCs would currently only be allowed two people per unit.

bardlyone

  • Posts: 725
Re: What Do Elves Do!?!
« Reply #36 on: February 17, 2017, 08:52:01 AM »
rather leave a room unoccupied than rent it out to someone who dares to already have an apartment with a competitor because reasons.

Not really the case. Do you know of any apartment building in game that isn't owned by Nenyuk outside of whatever possible hovels there are in the Rinth? Because I don't. In that case, it's not really a competitor, is it?
Quote from: Maester Aemon Targaryen
What is honor compared to a woman’s love? ...Wind and words. Wind and words. We are only human, and the gods have fashioned us for love. That is our great glory, and our great tragedy.

Lutagar

  • Posts: 263
Re: What Do Elves Do!?!
« Reply #37 on: February 17, 2017, 08:57:15 AM »
Do you know of any apartment building in game that isn't owned by Nenyuk outside of whatever possible hovels there are in the Rinth?

yes
« Last Edit: February 17, 2017, 08:59:12 AM by Lutagar »

Riev

  • Posts: 4724
Re: What Do Elves Do!?!
« Reply #38 on: February 17, 2017, 09:41:24 AM »
If you get down to it, Nenyuk probably doesn't want to rent more than one room to you, because if you're renting two apartments in one of their complexes, CLEARLY you need to rent out one of their fine Warehouses to supply your needs. Which are more expensive and come with a lot more restrictions.

I feel most of Nenyuk's coin comes from dead PCs that leave shit in their accounts anyways. But this is all tangential to the elf situation, where it kinda would be nice if they all had a hovel they could live in, and some changes Southside KIND of make a semi-Warrens situation manageable. I'm not saying all elves should live on rooftops, but there are a few areas that could kinda be 'claimed' if only we could rationalize a save room.
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Harmless

  • Posts: 2628
Re: What Do Elves Do!?!
« Reply #39 on: February 17, 2017, 09:46:18 AM »
All elves need teh climb skill!!

Okay and nenyuk can charge for extra keys.

Give me everything I want :p
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bardlyone

  • Posts: 725
Re: What Do Elves Do!?!
« Reply #40 on: February 17, 2017, 09:51:25 AM »
All elves need teh climb skill!!

Okay and nenyuk can charge for extra keys.

Give me everything I want :p

+1
Quote from: Maester Aemon Targaryen
What is honor compared to a woman’s love? ...Wind and words. Wind and words. We are only human, and the gods have fashioned us for love. That is our great glory, and our great tragedy.

Cind

  • Posts: 1276
Re: What Do Elves Do!?!
« Reply #41 on: February 17, 2017, 02:46:36 PM »
Elf-only cheap apartment building with old cheap locks, fuck breeds, bring your own furniture. Poorer people work with less money. They could partner their rent with a non pure elf or other race, even human, but those might be wise to choose somewhere else to live. Include a shadowy storage room with no door that isn't used anymore (from the building's previous purpose) that is perfect for someone with even a hide subguild to watch people from as they enter and go to their apartment.

Right now you can rent a cheap place in Allanak, but there's nowhere that -feels- 'shady' or 'undesirable' or 'you'd be wise not to live here.' The ones that come closest are cheap, spartan places, a little dusty, one out of eighteen of which has a bloodstain on the floor that's been there since before you were alive.
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Miradus

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Re: What Do Elves Do!?!
« Reply #42 on: February 17, 2017, 04:12:05 PM »

I am going to roll up a sleazy breed who sells Nenyuk timeshares.

Riev

  • Posts: 4724
Re: What Do Elves Do!?!
« Reply #43 on: February 20, 2017, 11:07:49 AM »

I am going to roll up a sleazy breed who sells Nenyuk timeshares.

I would buy that timeshare.


(Heh. In my mind, I'm imagining an elf who 'stands guard' at some broken down house, and just picks the lock for people who are "on the list" to get in. Until the real owners come to check, at which point they bolt).
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Tisiphone

  • Posts: 3626
Re: What Do Elves Do!?!
« Reply #44 on: February 20, 2017, 12:27:22 PM »

I am going to roll up a sleazy breed who sells Nenyuk timeshares.

I would buy that timeshare.


(Heh. In my mind, I'm imagining an elf who 'stands guard' at some broken down house, and just picks the lock for people who are "on the list" to get in. Until the real owners come to check, at which point they bolt).

This is actually a beautiful example of elfish behaviour that nevertheless doesn't lead to the complete absurdity of no-one seeing any reason to ever interact with you because you'll just screw them. In this example, the elf is selling a real good, and the buyers are buying a real good. The people the elf is screwing are not directly part of the transaction, and the buyers know (or probably suspect) what they're getting into - but have a real incentive for going with it anyway, because otherwise they'll never get into those nice apartments on Merchant's.

In my mind, elves aren't Snidely Whiplash and 'curse your unforeseen but inevitable betrayal!' Instead, most of the time they're like sleazy pawn-shop owners. A sleazy pawn shop will sell you a real good that probably does work as advertised, and so you'll really want it. You're not informed of the whole story, and that might come back to bite you, but then again, it might be worth it. A hot gun still works as a gun. A Rolex is still a Rolex, even if it came off the wrist of a lawyer with a gambling habit and bad taste in friends.

And maybe the elf runs an honest front - a real pawn shop - while also acting as a small-time fence for less-than-savory clientele. If you walk in off the street, you aren't going to get screwed - he'll cut you an honest (though hard) deal if all you want is that vintage N64 in the window. He's just involved in darker business, too.

So an elf will sell you a nice necklace for cheap, and just omit to mention that he got it from one of his East-side buddies who ganked a merchant and needed to move his stock. Or an elf will carry out a robbery for you in order to hurt your political rivals, and just carry off a little for himself, too. Or an elf will faithfully and accurately spy for you, and just also pass the info on to his family. None of which makes elves untouchable; it just means you don't trust them. But you still might hire them to do the job.

It's a much better model than, "I'm an elf, which means I have to try to rip off everybody always regardless of the upside."
There is no general doctrine which is not capable of eating out our morality if unchecked by the deep-seated habit of direct fellow-feeling with individual fellow-men. -George Eliot

Miradus

  • Posts: 1758
Re: What Do Elves Do!?!
« Reply #45 on: February 20, 2017, 12:29:25 PM »

I would think elves would also have the mentality that sometimes a regular little is greater than a one-time lot.

As me ol' Pops used to say, "You can shear a sheep as many times as you want, but you can only skin it once."

There would be advantages to being a somewhat reliable scumbag.

Tisiphone

  • Posts: 3626
Re: What Do Elves Do!?!
« Reply #46 on: February 20, 2017, 12:30:39 PM »

I would think elves would also have the mentality that sometimes a regular little is greater than a one-time lot.

As me ol' Pops used to say, "You can shear a sheep as many times as you want, but you can only skin it once."

There would be advantages to being a somewhat reliable scumbag.

You and me, we should play elves together.

Except I'm terrible at it.
There is no general doctrine which is not capable of eating out our morality if unchecked by the deep-seated habit of direct fellow-feeling with individual fellow-men. -George Eliot

Miradus

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Re: What Do Elves Do!?!
« Reply #47 on: February 20, 2017, 12:36:25 PM »

I'm terrible at it too.

But sometimes I have the most fun being terrible.

Tisiphone

  • Posts: 3626
Re: What Do Elves Do!?!
« Reply #48 on: February 20, 2017, 12:43:46 PM »
Four elves in a family.
Three mug people in dark alleys and take their stuff, being sure to target rich-ish commoners, but never anybody important.

The fourth sells the stuff from a dingy shop-front in the Commoners Quarter for cut-rate prices that're 80% of the standard market rate. No tricks; you actually get what you actually paid for.

Meanwhile, the family kicks back enough monthly coin to the local Templarate that, so long as they aren't bothering anyone important too often, nothing much happens. Occasionally the AoD blows through, delivers a light beating and trashes the place a little, just so it's clear who's boss.

The elves are named Vince, Dmitri, Jaden, and Diego.

A girl can dream.
There is no general doctrine which is not capable of eating out our morality if unchecked by the deep-seated habit of direct fellow-feeling with individual fellow-men. -George Eliot

nauta

  • Posts: 2187
Re: What Do Elves Do!?!
« Reply #49 on: February 20, 2017, 01:26:47 PM »
I'm going to wax nostalgic a bit on the family of rinth elves we had in the last year, which had a really fun run, and to tie it into another discussion -- we were pursuing the MMH option.

Also, city elves are Ferengi:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quark_(Star_Trek)

Also, second to the awesomeness of rooftops.   That be elf territory, Kah!
as IF you didn't just have them unconscious, naked, and helpless in the street 4 minutes ago