Author Topic: The current Prez  (Read 57832 times)

Miradus

  • Posts: 1976
Re: The current Prez
« Reply #1350 on: February 10, 2018, 03:50:39 PM »


I guess that explains the massive fucking tax blowjob the "Corporate Hegemony" got.

Is that sarcasm? Don't use sarcasm. It's not effective as a means of adult communication.

I didn't break down the tax cut into who got what. Did corporations get a larger % of a cut than individuals? I know individuals got a pretty good tax cut.

Keep in mind you're talking to someone who believes ALL taxes are theft.

tapas

  • Posts: 253
Re: The current Prez
« Reply #1351 on: February 10, 2018, 03:59:40 PM »


I guess that explains the massive fucking tax blowjob the "Corporate Hegemony" got.

Is that sarcasm? Don't use sarcasm. It's not effective as a means of adult communication.

I didn't break down the tax cut into who got what. Did corporations get a larger % of a cut than individuals? I know individuals got a pretty good tax cut.

Keep in mind you're talking to someone who believes ALL taxes are theft.

Rich folks got a massive tax cut. Corporations got a massive tax cut. They also got some brand new loopholes to exploit that nobody noticed while ramming it through.

Some of the middle class got peanuts.

Granted, when you only make 30k a year, an extra 1-2 feels amazing. But that's the reality of it on a macro scale.

Melkor

  • Posts: 1113
Re: The current Prez
« Reply #1352 on: February 10, 2018, 04:16:32 PM »
Why is it bad for rich people to make more money? I don't follow that part.
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.

tapas

  • Posts: 253
Re: The current Prez
« Reply #1353 on: February 10, 2018, 04:28:21 PM »
Why is it bad for rich people to make more money? I don't follow that part.

Rich people making money isn't really a problem in a classical economy.

There problem occurs when the rich are able to extract wealth from the economy without producing a product or an innovation of any meaningful value. This allows the very rich to manipulate the political and economic landscape in ways that are bad for democracy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rent-seeking

Melkor

  • Posts: 1113
Re: The current Prez
« Reply #1354 on: February 10, 2018, 04:58:19 PM »
A tax-break across the board is completely unrelated to rent-seeking, though.

They're not getting an unfair advantage, and they're not making more money, they're just having less taken from them.
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.

Miradus

  • Posts: 1976
Re: The current Prez
« Reply #1355 on: February 10, 2018, 05:22:21 PM »

I can't be against tax cuts for anybody so long as the load isn't shifted to someone else.

What we're collecting is normally below what we're spending anyway. Thus the deficit.

Do you realize that prior to 1913, the government didn't collect ANY federal income taxes? Yet we still had roads, schools, and a military.

On a base level, why do you think the government is entitled to a percentage of your income? Last year I paid in $34k in taxes. This year I'm on target to pay in $38k. I'm quite ready to drop back out of the system and go back to paying nothing per year.

tapas

  • Posts: 253
Re: The current Prez
« Reply #1356 on: February 10, 2018, 06:51:16 PM »
A tax-break across the board is completely unrelated to rent-seeking, though.

Except that it is.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/11/7/16618038/house-republicans-tax-bill-donors-chris-collins

Again this was a tax cut made for the donor class. And I'm a guy that favors lower taxes in general too.


I can't be against tax cuts for anybody so long as the load isn't shifted to someone else.

What we're collecting is normally below what we're spending anyway. Thus the deficit.

The load is shifted onto you though. Because higher deficit means higher interest rates. Which means inflation. Which means the wages you earn are worth less.

And I say that after suggesting earlier that debt isn't so bad. However in this case, if these cut taxes don't result in extraordinary growth, it's just going to come back to you and me.

Quote
On a base level, why do you think the government is entitled to a percentage of your income? Last year I paid in $34k in taxes. This year I'm on target to pay in $38k. I'm quite ready to drop back out of the system and go back to paying nothing per year.
Now I'm not a political philosopher. But I pay my taxes because I'm also a beneficiary of government services.

But if you would opt out, I would suggest that you do everything in your power to remove yourself from the benefits of society too.

This doesn't just mean opting out of subsidized services like energy, sewers and roads. But also opting out from goods and services that are in effect subsidized again because they were brought you using these services.

As an example, it wouldn't be enough to generate your own energy with your own generator. You also would have to purchase gasoline for that energy at an additional surcharge because that gasoline was delivered to you using a government funded road.

Miradus

  • Posts: 1976
Re: The current Prez
« Reply #1357 on: February 10, 2018, 06:59:09 PM »
You do realize I already pay for all my resources and "benefits" from society, don't you? The government didn't build them for free. They built them using money taken from people like me. They maintain them taking money from people like me.

When I buy a stick of gum, those transportation costs are already included. The roads? There were taxes included in the gasoline/diesel purchases which paid for those roads.

Those types of taxes are called consumption taxes. When you buy something, there's an additional cost which goes to something. Those are generally legit and even hardcore anarchists like myself don't mind paying them. Why? Because they're largely opt-out if you want. In theory, the benefit someone is getting from the roads is equal to their consumption of fuel and the consumption tax ATTACHED to fuel.

What most of us are against is the income taxes, where I earn something and then it's taken away from me by the threat of violence. There's no opt out. If a dollar in my services changes hands, the government is there to take a percentage of it.

You should read: "Whatever Happened to Penny Candy" by Richard Mayberry. I think after that you'd have a better understanding of the economics of taxes, plus inflation.


tapas

  • Posts: 253
Re: The current Prez
« Reply #1358 on: February 10, 2018, 07:40:10 PM »
You do realize I already pay for all my resources and "benefits" from society, don't you? The government didn't build them for free. They built them using money taken from people like me. They maintain them taking money from people like me.

People like you, arn't you. If you fail to pay your taxes, why should they subsidize you?

Quote
When I buy a stick of gum, those transportation costs are already included. The roads? There were taxes included in the gasoline/diesel purchases which paid for those roads.

False. You're factoring in freight costs but not the cost of maintaining the road the freight travels on. Specifics seem to vary, but it seems like fuel taxes and user fees only cover about 50% of road costs.

Quote
Those types of taxes are called consumption taxes. When you buy something, there's an additional cost which goes to something. Those are generally legit and even hardcore anarchists like myself don't mind paying them. Why? Because they're largely opt-out if you want. In theory, the benefit someone is getting from the roads is equal to their consumption of fuel and the consumption tax ATTACHED to fuel.

Consumption taxes arn't bad. But they don't cover everything. And amusingly, if income tax was shifted entirely onto the consumption tax then consumer spending would vastly decrease or shift to black markets and the economy would collapse.

Miradus

  • Posts: 1976
Re: The current Prez
« Reply #1359 on: February 10, 2018, 07:46:15 PM »

I can tell you didn't read the book yet by the *stuff* you just posted.

I'm not going to offer a rebuttal. I already gave you the means to educate yourself. That you're choosing not to is on you.

tapas

  • Posts: 253
Re: The current Prez
« Reply #1360 on: February 10, 2018, 07:53:17 PM »

I can tell you didn't read the book yet by the *stuff* you just posted.

I'm not going to offer a rebuttal. I already gave you the means to educate yourself. That you're choosing not to is on you.

I've already taken intermediate macro. I should be good.

Melkor

  • Posts: 1113
Re: The current Prez
« Reply #1361 on: February 14, 2018, 12:51:38 PM »
I love you all bigly, and hope you all get 3 scoops.





« Last Edit: February 14, 2018, 01:00:49 PM by Melkor »
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.

Is Friday

  • Posts: 6327
Re: The current Prez
« Reply #1362 on: February 15, 2018, 03:52:10 PM »
www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-us-canada-43071710

Awful. Wonder what's to be done.
And then I sat there going "really? that was it? that's so stupid."

I still think the best closure you get in Armageddon is just moving on to the next character.

Sayyadina

  • Posts: 383
Re: The current Prez
« Reply #1363 on: February 15, 2018, 05:23:21 PM »
<link to news item on the mass shooting in a Florida school yesterday>

Awful. Wonder what's to be done.

Thoughts and prayers, mostly.

“No more should you doubt this, my prince – my sisters and I shall not wait ten-and-seven years for our vengeance.”

--Lady Nymeria Sand, A Feast for Crows

Is Friday

  • Posts: 6327
Re: The current Prez
« Reply #1364 on: February 15, 2018, 05:31:33 PM »
Progress would assume a middle ground exists, I guess.
And then I sat there going "really? that was it? that's so stupid."

I still think the best closure you get in Armageddon is just moving on to the next character.

Sayyadina

  • Posts: 383
Re: The current Prez
« Reply #1365 on: February 15, 2018, 06:23:43 PM »
Progress would assume a middle ground exists, I guess.

What do you think would be a reasonable middle ground?
“No more should you doubt this, my prince – my sisters and I shall not wait ten-and-seven years for our vengeance.”

--Lady Nymeria Sand, A Feast for Crows

BadSkeelz

  • Posts: 8335
Re: The current Prez
« Reply #1366 on: February 15, 2018, 06:39:50 PM »
www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-us-canada-43071710

Awful. Wonder what's to be done.

Blame the victims?
https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-says-florida-students-done-150722680.html

In Florida, you probably could get away with shooting disturbed persons and claiming you were proactively defending yourself. As long as you aren't black, that is.

janeshephard: You really think BadSkeelz understands the concept of Wine In Front of me? This guy shot me as a townie when he felt threatened. The man's a neandrathal.

Miradus: He's not some weird mental abomination. He's just a guy on the internet.

Molten Heart

  • Posts: 1924
Re: The current Prez
« Reply #1367 on: February 16, 2018, 12:49:48 PM »
I wonder if there's a more effective way to address violence in the US. Is it even possible? The US is fairly violent, culturally. Would stronger families and communities help stave off violent individuals from taking extreme measures that result in the death or injury of others? What can be done?

These are the kinds of things I think about when mass killings happen.

BadSkeelz

  • Posts: 8335
Re: The current Prez
« Reply #1368 on: February 16, 2018, 12:53:39 PM »
I wonder if there's a more effective way to address violence in the US. Is it even possible? The US is fairly violent, culturally. Would stronger families and communities help stave off violent individuals from taking extreme measures that result in the death or injury of others? What can be done?

These are the kinds of things I think about when mass killings happen.

Every time there's a mass shooting, have it so an equal number of congressmen and -women are randomly selected and also shot.

Could restrict it to those who accept money from the gun industry but I'd like to give the opposition some motivation too.
janeshephard: You really think BadSkeelz understands the concept of Wine In Front of me? This guy shot me as a townie when he felt threatened. The man's a neandrathal.

Miradus: He's not some weird mental abomination. He's just a guy on the internet.

Molten Heart

  • Posts: 1924
Re: The current Prez
« Reply #1369 on: February 16, 2018, 01:09:15 PM »
I wonder if there's a more effective way to address violence in the US. Is it even possible? The US is fairly violent, culturally. Would stronger families and communities help stave off violent individuals from taking extreme measures that result in the death or injury of others? What can be done?

These are the kinds of things I think about when mass killings happen.

Every time there's a mass shooting, have it so an equal number of congressmen and -women are randomly selected and also shot.

Could restrict it to those who accept money from the gun industry but I'd like to give the opposition some motivation too.

How will this reduce violence? Wouldn't this just increase the violence?

BadSkeelz

  • Posts: 8335
Re: The current Prez
« Reply #1370 on: February 16, 2018, 01:16:10 PM »
It would increase violence in the short term. The goal's to give political leadership the proper motivation to tackle the issue. It's easy to limit yourself to "thoughts and prayers" when you're protected by one of the largest security apparatuses in the world, and have excellent and free healthcare in case a bullet does happen to make it through.

One of the big problems with modern society at the elite level is lack of personal responsibility. I think Congress should have to play Russian roulette whenever our kids are murdered like this for the same reason that CEOs of bailout companies should have to commit suicide: so that the next batch know they have to improve the situation to save their own skin. Fear and greed are the only motivators of human behavior and right now we do not have enough fear at the top.
janeshephard: You really think BadSkeelz understands the concept of Wine In Front of me? This guy shot me as a townie when he felt threatened. The man's a neandrathal.

Miradus: He's not some weird mental abomination. He's just a guy on the internet.

lordcooper

  • Posts: 7876
Re: The current Prez
« Reply #1371 on: February 16, 2018, 02:34:23 PM »
You're hopefully joking, but taking your suggestion at face value would cause problems.  Not least the fact that you'd run out of congressmen to shoot really quickly.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2018, 02:36:14 PM by lordcooper »
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

fuck authority smoke weed erryday

oh and here's a free videogame.

Is Friday

  • Posts: 6327
Re: The current Prez
« Reply #1372 on: February 16, 2018, 03:10:07 PM »
It would increase violence in the short term. The goal's to give political leadership the proper motivation to tackle the issue. It's easy to limit yourself to "thoughts and prayers" when you're protected by one of the largest security apparatuses in the world, and have excellent and free healthcare in case a bullet does happen to make it through.

One of the big problems with modern society at the elite level is lack of personal responsibility. I think Congress should have to play Russian roulette whenever our kids are murdered like this for the same reason that CEOs of bailout companies should have to commit suicide: so that the next batch know they have to improve the situation to save their own skin. Fear and greed are the only motivators of human behavior and right now we do not have enough fear at the top.
The sepukku policy.
And then I sat there going "really? that was it? that's so stupid."

I still think the best closure you get in Armageddon is just moving on to the next character.

Melkor

  • Posts: 1113
Re: The current Prez
« Reply #1373 on: February 16, 2018, 03:24:56 PM »
So, the general consensus is: "Something needs to be done."

What should be done? The problem I see is, the laws I would approve of would not accomplish anything regarding mass shootings (i.e. stronger background checks, smaller magazines, etc.), and the laws that might, I am wholly opposed to (Confiscation).

I'm asking earnestly. What should be done?
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.

Is Friday

  • Posts: 6327
Re: The current Prez
« Reply #1374 on: February 16, 2018, 03:28:33 PM »
Except for how much it would cost... tightening up security in every public school seems like the most effective course of action.
And then I sat there going "really? that was it? that's so stupid."

I still think the best closure you get in Armageddon is just moving on to the next character.