Author Topic: Coder Transparency - Cure/Poison Crafting  (Read 4145 times)

nessalin

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Re: Coder Transparency - Cure/Poison Crafting
« Reply #75 on: July 13, 2017, 02:55:54 PM »
#12 and #31 are the hardest parts to get.  Focus on those and the rest should fall in place quickly.

purpledragon

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Re: Coder Transparency - Cure/Poison Crafting
« Reply #76 on: July 14, 2017, 10:09:11 AM »
hi nessalin,
It was finally when I thought I had a good understanding of the new system, but your statment confused me again:

"The brew command uses a purely dynamic system (an object with certain qualities is considered a valid ingredient) while the craft command uses a purely static system (only exact objects can be used in specific recipes).  The cure/poison crafting brings the dynamic nature of the brew command into the crafting system."

In which do you imply that with the new CRAFT code, only exact objects can be used in specific recipes, meaning that, in order to build a cure X, only specific objects (herbs, whatever) can be used. This is different than what I perceived. I thought cure X can be crafted with a different combination of different objects (based on their qualities)

I am still pretty sure that if the old brew is removed today, 90% of playerbase will die to common poisons. It seriously is complicated, and the combinations are (not going to reveal much, but based on what I have found) incredibly high. (around quarter million, in combinations of 1,2,3,4 and 5)

Feel free to delete parts you find sensitive, sorry

Delirium

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Re: Coder Transparency - Cure/Poison Crafting
« Reply #77 on: July 14, 2017, 10:21:14 AM »
Actually he's saying the opposite. The new brew crafting can accept multiple recipes for the same result.

So fluffberries and elfbark might make cure #1... but fuzzleaf and kittyflower also makes cure #1. Because fluffberries and fuzzleaf, and elfbark and kittyflower, have similar properties.

The rest I highly encourage you to figure out through experimentation, it's fun!

Tip: use the 'assess' and 'taste' command on herbs.
"Our whole lives are just stories." - Vikings

you've seen more than they could ever know
no matter what they say, you've earned the right to be so bold

nessalin

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Re: Coder Transparency - Cure/Poison Crafting
« Reply #78 on: July 14, 2017, 10:30:55 AM »
Thanks for the feedback.

After a few months of watching the new code being used I'm starting to think it's overly complicated, more so than the magic code prior to the addition of the symbol command.

Molten Heart

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Re: Coder Transparency - Cure/Poison Crafting
« Reply #79 on: July 14, 2017, 11:05:17 AM »
The most difficult part for me seems to be finding test subjects to experiment on.

Lizzie

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Re: Coder Transparency - Cure/Poison Crafting
« Reply #80 on: July 14, 2017, 11:09:33 AM »
We could throw out a sponsored role app for Dasari slaves, to undertake a grand experiment by the noble. That way it'd be in the same game world as the rest of the playerbase works out of, but with enough relative isolation that no one gets interrupted/pked by politics. Short-term experimental player-run PCs, without having to store our current PCs.
Talia said: Notice to all: Do not mess with Lizzie's GDB. She will cut you.
Delirium said: Notice to all: do not mess with Lizzie's soap. She will cut you.

Molten Heart

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Re: Coder Transparency - Cure/Poison Crafting
« Reply #81 on: July 14, 2017, 11:13:02 AM »
We could throw out a sponsored role app for Dasari slaves, to undertake a grand experiment by the noble. That way it'd be in the same game world as the rest of the playerbase works out of, but with enough relative isolation that no one gets interrupted/pked by politics. Short-term experimental player-run PCs, without having to store our current PCs.

I have a less elaborate plan in mind but it requires some set-up on my part first.

purpledragon

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Re: Coder Transparency - Cure/Poison Crafting
« Reply #82 on: July 14, 2017, 11:17:25 AM »
I agree with Lizzie that is is quite fun.
It is extremely! Despite the complications, I would feel so disappointed if it's reverted back :( (Some players have invested so much so far I believe)

The only recommendation I can have could be to include more HINTS at plant helpfiles, but not on individuals, the COMBINATIONS.
If it is mentioned in helpfiles as such "These leaves are reputed to cleanse the blood, when used alongside .... and ...."

From there, players can link herbs to tastes, and discover pieces of puzzles while having a great fun.

I am not telling to reveal all out for the deadliest of poison crafts, but for the common 3-4 cures.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2017, 11:26:25 AM by purpledragon »

Delirium

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Re: Coder Transparency - Cure/Poison Crafting
« Reply #83 on: July 14, 2017, 11:29:10 AM »
I like the idea of some sort of "lore" command. You could roll a lot of things into it, but based on your skill level in brew, you could type "lore brewing" and see what recipes your character would have figured out.

Maybe that makes it too simple?
"Our whole lives are just stories." - Vikings

you've seen more than they could ever know
no matter what they say, you've earned the right to be so bold

sleepyhead

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Re: Coder Transparency - Cure/Poison Crafting
« Reply #84 on: July 14, 2017, 11:35:12 AM »
Thanks for the feedback.

After a few months of watching the new code being used I'm starting to think it's overly complicated, more so than the magic code prior to the addition of the symbol command.

You're right that it's complicated and difficult, but I think it'd be okay if there was more of an indication about what your typical herbs do in the helpfiles, representing some common herbal lore. Right now I don't know where to even start learning what does what. I'm completely lost and it's very hard to test things out and find out IC in this case.

nessalin

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Re: Coder Transparency - Cure/Poison Crafting
« Reply #85 on: July 14, 2017, 11:43:03 AM »
The inability to test the results of a poison/cure attempt is the leading problem that's come up with the system being used so far.  Some questionable hoops have been jumped through to justify testing (which is fine, really, it's new and we're all seeing what works and what doesn't).

Armaddict

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Re: Coder Transparency - Cure/Poison Crafting
« Reply #86 on: July 14, 2017, 12:08:24 PM »
I, for one, like more complex systems in this kind of thing.  Not because of hard-mode, but because in my mind, more complex systems have more room for future development.

In other words...complex leads me to believe that poison crafting, poisoning, and medicine will all be very viable professions.

In the past, with simplicity, it just wasn't, because everyone and their gortok was pumping those things out like mad, and it was so transparent for -everyone- to understand everything that it was...well...gimmicky.
She wasn't doing a thing that I could see, except standing there leaning on the balcony railing, holding the universe together. --J.D. Salinger

Molten Heart

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Re: Coder Transparency - Cure/Poison Crafting
« Reply #87 on: July 14, 2017, 12:10:46 PM »
Eventually, some recipes will become common knowledge and we'll be back pretty much where we were before with maybe three or four cures being somewhat well known. However, the mechanics of the new system is complex enough to allow for many new possibilities that the older simpler system couldn't.

For the time being it's going to be more difficult until some recipes become more wildly known through the player base, which I'm sure the people doing the work to discover will keep a closely guarded secret to protect their efforts, which I think is fun.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2017, 12:14:41 PM by Molten Heart »

sleepyhead

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Re: Coder Transparency - Cure/Poison Crafting
« Reply #88 on: July 14, 2017, 12:21:06 PM »
One difficulty is that there isn't really an IC reason for medicines to suddenly be harder to figure out, so it's kind of weird that all of a sudden no one knows the medicinal effects of common plants anymore.

Delirium

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Re: Coder Transparency - Cure/Poison Crafting
« Reply #89 on: July 14, 2017, 03:15:16 PM »
The helpfiles do give some hints already, but I think going through the plant helpfiles and updating them would be a good solution.
"Our whole lives are just stories." - Vikings

you've seen more than they could ever know
no matter what they say, you've earned the right to be so bold

James de Monet

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Re: Coder Transparency - Cure/Poison Crafting
« Reply #90 on: Today at 04:18:31 AM »
So, I've had more time to play with this, and I have two new questions:
  • Is it expected behavior that two items of the same type might have different (or might change their) herbal values?  I had some stuff happen that seemed kinda weird when tasting two things of the exact same (stackable) type.  Namely, I got two different messages.  Not sure if it's a bug, or expected.
  • Should we be treating mash cures like transitory things?  (Are they transitory things?)  So, for example, should we consider it unrealistic to have a bagful of puffy balls of powder, or whatever?  Taking the chance that tablet crafting will destroy a perfectly functional mash cure seems a little like gluttony for punishment, otherwise.
You know I think if James simply retitled his thread "Cheese" and apologized for his first post being off-topic, all problems would be solved.