Author Topic: Release Note discussion!  (Read 37144 times)

JohnMichaelHenry

  • Posts: 41
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #700 on: July 04, 2018, 08:15:40 PM »
I don't remember exactly what thread it was but staff was very specific about the listen skill and the merchant guild that if you choose the right subguild you could be both master crafter and master spy and that combination was just too OP.  In fact, I'm fairly certain the new classes.were structured so that the master spy/merchant would no longer be an available option.

“Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited to all we know and understand, while imagination embraces the entire world, and all there ever will be to know and understand.”
― Michael Scott, The Warlock

hyzhenhok

  • Posts: 1661
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #701 on: July 05, 2018, 12:39:11 AM »
...that sounds more like an issue with having a subguild that allowed you to tack perfect stealth onto any class, rather than an issue with merchant.

I always thought Merchant + Slipknife and Merchant + Outdoorsman were ridiculous combos, but the problem is Slipknife and Outdoorsman giving you all the skills you need to be competent in their domain. Compare to the combat extended subguilds.

Maybe once the subclasses are rebalanced staff will feel comfortable taking another look at the heavy mercantile.

hyzhenhok

  • Posts: 1661
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #702 on: July 05, 2018, 01:21:33 AM »
Can we get an update to help mastercrafting that explains the new rules in one place? I'm still not clear exactly on it.

stoicreader

  • Posts: 124
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #703 on: July 05, 2018, 09:12:33 AM »
Can we get an update to help mastercrafting that explains the new rules in one place? I'm still not clear exactly on it.

I agree its confounding.
Meh

nessalin

  • Board Administrator
  • Posts: 406
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #704 on: July 05, 2018, 10:45:18 AM »
Friendly reminder that we all get to decide how we spend our free time.  This includes people who spend their's being staff on the game.  I wouldn't expect anyone to play the game if they don't enjoy it - likewise I wouldn't expect anyone to work on staff if they aren't enjoying it.

Riev

  • Posts: 5149
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #705 on: July 05, 2018, 10:58:29 AM »
Friendly reminder that we all get to decide how we spend our free time.  This includes people who spend their's being staff on the game.  I wouldn't expect anyone to play the game if they don't enjoy it - likewise I wouldn't expect anyone to work on staff if they aren't enjoying it.

As staff, a new initiative was proposed in the form of new Classes.
Within that initiative, a policy regarding custom crafting was re-worked, but never finalized.
Rather than finalize that policy, the class initiative was rolled out, with classes/subclasses built around the proposed changes.
Players are now confused because no guidance has been given.
Staff will submit the help files when someone decides that is how they will spend their free time.

Would anyone accept this behavior from anywhere else? Would this behavior be ethically acceptable from any organization providing a good or service?




Masks are the Armageddon equivalent of Ed Hardy shirts.

Medena

  • Posts: 1191
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #706 on: July 05, 2018, 11:37:20 AM »

Would anyone accept this behavior from anywhere else? Would this behavior be ethically acceptable from any organization providing a good or service?

What the heck?

A mild and politely worded request for more information was expressed followed by a mild and polite reminder that staff are volunteers.  I am betting that an invective like this makes the staff feel a little less likely to want to spend their free time on the game.
Quote from: J S Bach
If it ain't baroque, don't fix it.

JohnMichaelHenry

  • Posts: 41
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #707 on: July 05, 2018, 11:40:17 AM »
With the new classes, a zero-karma subguild is offered that will allow you to custom craft any item that coincides with your crafting skills list. If you want to custom craft any item you must have this subguild (custom crafter) You no longer have to be master in the skill, you can submit a custom craft at any point.

I ask this sincerely, not to be snarky, even though it may sound that way. Did I miss something? This seems pretty straightforward to me.
“Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited to all we know and understand, while imagination embraces the entire world, and all there ever will be to know and understand.”
― Michael Scott, The Warlock

Brokkr

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 398
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #708 on: July 05, 2018, 11:59:08 AM »
Would anyone accept this behavior from anywhere else? Would this behavior be ethically acceptable from any organization providing a good or service?

Yes.  Yes.

Customer service and the customer experience aren't ethical obligations, even from organizations selling you a good or service, unless it is explicitly laid out in the contract that these are included in what is being sold to you.  I'm sure there are folks that have such a sense of entitlement that they believe they are, but that does not make it so.

I've been busy because my job and family take priority, but I will get to stuff when I can.

JohnMichaelHenry

  • Posts: 41
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #709 on: July 05, 2018, 12:28:23 PM »
I haven't suicided yet! But now when I look at options, I can no longer see the same choices that were there previous. Half-giant has disappeared from race, and many of the magicker subclasses I could see before are gone, as well as some of the extended subguilds. It seems random, because some are still the same costs. It does say I have max karma, so maybe there is something not right here?

I mean, max karma for me....

Edit: Not random. As the others below stated, karma does not match karma options. Do I have to die first? Cuz I will. :)
« Last Edit: July 05, 2018, 10:07:28 PM by JohnMichaelHenry »
“Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited to all we know and understand, while imagination embraces the entire world, and all there ever will be to know and understand.”
― Michael Scott, The Warlock

BrainySmurf

  • Posts: 43
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #710 on: July 05, 2018, 12:51:35 PM »
Would anyone accept this behavior from anywhere else? Would this behavior be ethically acceptable from any organization providing a good or service?


Miradus

  • Posts: 2028
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #711 on: July 05, 2018, 02:52:35 PM »
Anyway, I'm digging the new classes. While I was very wary of this sweeping of a change, there's several which actually support my playstyles much better than before. Some provide everything I want (crafting AND wilderness) before I ever even add a subguild.

The missing documentation is just going to take time to come together. I get that. But I'd like to ask, because I don't use Discord, that any big explanations of how stuff works which isn't yet in a helpfile maybe get cross-posted to the forum for posterity?  Doesn't even have to be done by staff ... just let the players pick it up there and bring it back here.

sleepyhead

  • Posts: 473
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #712 on: July 05, 2018, 02:57:03 PM »
I haven't suicided yet! But now when I look at options, I can no longer see the same choices that were there previous. Half-giant has disappeared from race, and many of the magicker subclasses I could see before are gone, as well as some of the extended subguilds. It seems random, because some are still the same costs. It does say I have max karma, so maybe there is something not right here?

I mean, max karma for me....

I'm having the same issue. Pressing O tells me that I have 2/2 karma, but I can only see the 0 and 1-karma options on my list.

X-D

  • Posts: 5511
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #713 on: July 05, 2018, 03:15:52 PM »
Yup, My race and guild options are not matching my karma level at all either.
A gaunt, yellow-skinned gith shrieks in fear, and hauls ass.
Lizzie:
If you -want- me to think that your character is a hybrid of a black kryl and a white push-broom shaped like a penis, then you've done a great job

Nao

  • Posts: 1907
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #714 on: July 05, 2018, 03:49:54 PM »
Yup, My race and guild options are not matching my karma level at all either.

Yup.
A rusty brown kank explodes into little bits.

Someone says, out of character:
     "I had to fix something in this zone.. YOU WEREN'T HERE 2 minutes ago :)"

Cowboy

  • Posts: 519
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #715 on: July 05, 2018, 04:50:59 PM »
Same here.  Mine was correct yesterday. incorrect today.
I'd rather be lucky than good.

Scrumpkin

  • Posts: 143
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #716 on: July 06, 2018, 10:37:38 AM »
Friendly reminder that we all get to decide how we spend our free time.  This includes people who spend their's being staff on the game.  I wouldn't expect anyone to play the game if they don't enjoy it - likewise I wouldn't expect anyone to work on staff if they aren't enjoying it.

As staff, a new initiative was proposed in the form of new Classes.
Within that initiative, a policy regarding custom crafting was re-worked, but never finalized.
Rather than finalize that policy, the class initiative was rolled out, with classes/subclasses built around the proposed changes.
Players are now confused because no guidance has been given.
Staff will submit the help files when someone decides that is how they will spend their free time.

Would anyone accept this behavior from anywhere else? Would this behavior be ethically acceptable from any organization providing a good or service?

With regards to providing a good service, I highly doubt that the game is here to provide ANY service though I speak only for myself and not staff, and from a non-staff member looking at staff and what is accomplished I am compelled to say that we as players have to be patient and deal with the curves of the road ahead.  We as players need to understand that just like some players, staff have real lives that need attending, and some things have to take a place on the back burner.  So let's all just deal with it constructively, be patient, and give the staff some space to accomplish the many things that they have to, in the order they see fit.  It could be construed as a service, but generally services reap rewards that benefit the servicer as well as the servicee.   I personally appreciate all the hard work that goes into the game by the staff, and understand that I am owed nothing, but instead owe a few attributes to the game and player base, such as: contributing as high of a level of RP as possible, being patient, reporting bugs and problems I see in a passive manner, thus as a player I am not entitled to anything, but granted it.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2018, 10:55:13 AM by Scrumpkin »

Nathvaan

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 399
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #717 on: July 06, 2018, 10:38:56 AM »
I am looking into this.  Seems that fixing one bug did indeed introduce another! 

I hope to have this resolved shortly.  Your options are still correct they are just displaying in properly.

I'll update here when I have more information and an expected resolution time.  Thanks for letting us know!

Riev

  • Posts: 5149
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #718 on: July 06, 2018, 11:11:33 AM »
As a general note, I find it distasteful that its assumed I don't appreciate the work staff do, just because I hold them to a higher standard and expect more from them. Nobody has a monopoly on "appreciating" work.

Also related:
With the display bug as it is right now, if I were to make a new character while I am at zero karma, but the system is displaying 1karma options, could I make a character with the 1karma option? Does the system know I can't select it, and its JUST a display bug?
Masks are the Armageddon equivalent of Ed Hardy shirts.

BrainySmurf

  • Posts: 43
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #719 on: July 06, 2018, 11:44:50 AM »
As a general note, I find it distasteful that its assumed I don't appreciate the work staff do, just because I hold them to a higher standard and expect more from them. Nobody has a monopoly on "appreciating" work.

Well, I tried to bite my tongue on this and failed. So I apologize in advance for the derail, because this has nothing to do with release notes:

Your distaste is noted, Riev. It would be an extraordinary effort on everyone's part to fail to note your distaste.

The staff and playerbase, I believe, can be excused for making this distasteful assumption, however. Every scrap of evidence you offer via your forum post and discord communiques is supportive of a systematic and thorough lack of appreciation, shot through with a persistent vein of entitlement. 90% of your input into everything is derisive, both in content as well as language. You do not come across as a martyr draped on the altar of 'holding staff to a higher standard'. You come across as an unceasing font of vitriol and bile directed at both fellow players and the staff, determined to attribute to malice that which is easily explained by differing priorities.

Maybe that's presumptive of me. But if you find the assumptions of your fellow players and staff distasteful, perhaps you should reflect on the portion of the interface you are responsible for, rather than insinuating that you're being treated unfairly.

Scrumpkin

  • Posts: 143
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #720 on: July 06, 2018, 11:45:41 AM »
As a general note, I find it distasteful that its assumed I don't appreciate the work staff do, just because I hold them to a higher standard and expect more from them. Nobody has a monopoly on "appreciating" work.

Also related:
With the display bug as it is right now, if I were to make a new character while I am at zero karma, but the system is displaying 1karma options, could I make a character with the 1karma option? Does the system know I can't select it, and its JUST a display bug?

I was not assuming anything or saying anything about you Riev, I was merely stating my opinion on how I look at things.  Never once did I include that you do not appreciate, nor point a finger at you.  On the other hand, I see all the input that you give in the forums, and I have played under you, and I highly think that you are far more beneficial in anything that you do, or discuss.  Even if it's bringing up something I don't agree with, I'm comfortable doing it because I know I will get a good discussion.  That's why we have these discussions I would assume, so don't get any distaste, please.   :P

Cowboy

  • Posts: 519
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #721 on: July 06, 2018, 11:49:56 AM »
Agree with both of the last posts. 
I'd rather be lucky than good.

sleepyhead

  • Posts: 473
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #722 on: July 06, 2018, 01:29:14 PM »
The problem is fixed for me now. Thanks!

Lizzie

  • Posts: 7660
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #723 on: July 06, 2018, 01:50:21 PM »
I had the same problem with the karma options list, I asked about it last night and was assured it'd be investigated.

I just checked, and it's all fixed now, less than 15 hours later. Given that even people on the other side of the world has experienced "typical sleep-time" at some point within the last 15 hours, and everyone in the USA experienced MOST of their 6-8 hours of sleep in the last 15 hours, I'd say they investigated and fixed it in damned good time.

Thanks!

Love,
Lizzie ("i can haz karmas?") the Irk
Talia said: Notice to all: Do not mess with Lizzie's GDB. She will cut you.
Delirium said: Notice to all: do not mess with Lizzie's soap. She will cut you.

JohnMichaelHenry

  • Posts: 41
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #724 on: July 06, 2018, 02:14:14 PM »
I had the same problem with the karma options list, I asked about it last night and was assured it'd be investigated.

I just checked, and it's all fixed now, less than 15 hours later. Given that even people on the other side of the world has experienced "typical sleep-time" at some point within the last 15 hours, and everyone in the USA experienced MOST of their 6-8 hours of sleep in the last 15 hours, I'd say they investigated and fixed it in damned good time.

Thanks!

Love,
Lizzie ("i can haz karmas?") the Irk


+1 Thanks a lot staff. You guys spend a lot of personal, unpaid time to keep my main source of entertainment going and it is appreciated!

Oh yea. Anyone notice that the heavy crafters -start- with armormaking? I like that!
« Last Edit: July 06, 2018, 05:22:37 PM by JohnMichaelHenry »
“Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited to all we know and understand, while imagination embraces the entire world, and all there ever will be to know and understand.”
― Michael Scott, The Warlock