Author Topic: Release Note discussion!  (Read 44121 times)

Veselka

  • Posts: 727
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #350 on: December 16, 2017, 06:49:09 PM »
Very cool addition. Can't wait to try it out (and have it tried out on my PCs).
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--Immanuel Kant

Eyeball

  • Posts: 816
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #351 on: December 16, 2017, 06:49:55 PM »
I hope that the 'threaten' command will be delayed in the same way that many commands are when moving between rooms. It shouldn't be possible to just teleport up to people and threaten them. The converse of danger when fleeing is being able to see people approaching you before they are within striking distance, something that is a lot easier in reality than in the game.

WarriorPoet

  • Posts: 4590
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #352 on: December 16, 2017, 07:58:45 PM »
E (charging up, weapon at the ready); threaten badguy

This is an awesome addition. I recently had an encounter where it would have come in handy.

Question:

Is there a delay?
We were somewhere near the Shield Wall, on the edge of the Red Desert, when the drugs began to take hold...

nessalin

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Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #353 on: December 16, 2017, 08:20:10 PM »
Question:

Is there a delay?

As per the help file, the delay comes after.
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evilcabbage

  • Posts: 1947
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #354 on: December 16, 2017, 08:20:16 PM »
after


edit: god damnit nessalin i was gonna answer it ;_;
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Dresan

  • Posts: 1167
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #355 on: December 16, 2017, 10:44:39 PM »
This is a good skill, glad to see it being implemented.

However, I am curious what happens if the first command the victim types is 'flee self'. Will the victim fail or be stopped from fleeing, or combat will start and the victim flees anyways? The raider is delayed after using the threaten skill so its easy for the victim to get away.

I can't help but think that chase should also be made a skill, allowing a chance to chase through flee (depending on chase skill vs flee skill). I've always been a fan of making the flee skill more important. Unfortunately, I digress, this is probably another thread all together.

Either way good addition and an improvement to the over all experience.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2017, 10:58:03 PM by Dresan »
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nessalin

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Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #356 on: December 16, 2017, 11:10:31 PM »
This is a good skill, glad to see it being implemented.

However, I am curious what happens if the first command the victim types is 'flee self'. Will the victim fail or be stopped from fleeing, or combat will start and the victim flees anyways? The raider is delayed after using the threaten skill so its easy for the victim to get away.

I can't help but think that chase should also be made a skill, allowing a chance to chase through flee (depending on chase skill vs flee skill). I've always been a fan of making the flee skill more important. Unfortunately, I digress, this is probably another thread all together.

Either way good addition and an improvement to the over all experience.

Raider uses the threaten command on Merchant.
Raider is now threatening Merchant.
Raider is now lagged from the threaten command.

Merchant types 'flee self'
Raider's threaten has a 35% chance of succeeding.

Threaten succeeds:
  Raider immediately attacks Merchant
  Raider is still lagged from threaten, however, so none of Raider commands will go through until that ends.

Threaten fails:
  Merchant flees.
  Raider is still lagged from threaten and cannot give chase until the threaten lag wears off.
"I wanna be an architect"

Kialae

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Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #357 on: December 16, 2017, 11:23:18 PM »
I would assume combat begins immediately, but any subsequent input commands (kick, bash, flee) would be after the delay.

Edit: Yep, I either didn't notice, or I got ninja'd, by Ness.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2017, 11:28:13 PM by Kialae »

SlaughterHouse5

  • Posts: 34
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #358 on: December 17, 2017, 12:18:54 AM »
If the threaten succeeds and you do attack in a crimcoded area, you'll still become Wanted, right?
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stark

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Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #359 on: December 17, 2017, 08:41:31 AM »
I don't suppose this resolves the "raider" making the demand for coins, the "merchant" paying it, and then still being killed by the "raider".
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Rathustra

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Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #360 on: December 17, 2017, 08:57:43 AM »
I don't suppose this resolves the "raider" making the demand for coins, the "merchant" paying it, and then still being killed by the "raider".

What's to resolve here? This is a classic example of the scorpion and the fox.

Grapes

  • Posts: 416
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #361 on: December 17, 2017, 09:04:47 AM »
backstab rathustra

EDIT: Wasn't it the frog and the scorpion?

EDIT2:
« Last Edit: December 17, 2017, 09:11:40 AM by Grapes »
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KankWhisperer

  • Posts: 1528
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #362 on: December 17, 2017, 02:51:31 PM »
Would threaten trigger crim code in the city or in front of soldiers immediately?

Would the attack go through before or after the action they are threatening against? If it's before you can even draw a weapon I think that 'combat' types should have some skill to get their weapon out before the attack at least.

Grogerif

  • Posts: 63
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #363 on: December 17, 2017, 03:48:44 PM »
backstab rathustra

EDIT: Wasn't it the frog and the scorpion?

EDIT2:

Some versions of the story replace the frog and/or scorpion with other animals.  The moral is the same.

Dresan

  • Posts: 1167
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #364 on: December 17, 2017, 03:59:23 PM »
There doesn't seem to be any additional lag to the victim so even after a successful threaten skill, they can just type flee again (assuming the first command of the victim is stopped?) and be on their way. This isn't a necessarily a bad thing, of course.

My original concern here was the flee command would still go through immediately, even though threaten started an attack. In the past I had an experience where I attacked someone, and they would flee instantly. I think they had flee triggered/macro because they would flee so quickly, my character didn't even have a chance to attack even once after starting the fight.

The threaten skill is basically a good RP tool. Even at 100 percent of threaten skill success there would be no issue since it would still give a chance to RP the situation. Similar as a raider running in and typing kill merchant since the kill command is also 100 percent chance of success but gives no chance for RP.

I wouldn't mind seeing characters that can master threaten skill get a chance to delay their victim when the victim performs their first command. The delay on the victim side would be shorter than that of the raider, however, it would make people think twice about whether or not fleeing is a good enough option versus trying to RP it out. Though this might skew things in favor of the raider side of things, lets not forget anyone outside the walls leaves understanding the many dangers and should be coming prepared. 
« Last Edit: December 17, 2017, 04:25:14 PM by Dresan »
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Grapes

  • Posts: 416
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #365 on: December 17, 2017, 04:23:58 PM »
The threaten command is pretty neat, imo. Have yet to see it used, but think some should be able to get it to master (once it's properly tested), particularly, raiders and thugs.
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Riev

  • Posts: 5160
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #366 on: December 18, 2017, 09:23:13 AM »
I cannot wait to use threaten, at least it will be a way to codedly represent "I am here to raid you and willing to RP out the scene, not just attack immediately. Stand down."

I have similar concerns about the legalities of threaten that I'm SURE I'll find out ICly.

My worry is that if someone tries to flee from a threaten, and the raider successfully attacks, there is still no lag on the person BEING threatened, who can just spam "flee self" and run away immediately after, while the raider is still recovering and "positioning" from their threatening behavior.

I also wonder if threaten can be used OUT of hide... like hide;sneak;e;threaten merchant to kind of "pop out of the shadows, a blade extended" kind of threatening.
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Armaddict

  • Posts: 6127
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #367 on: December 18, 2017, 02:27:18 PM »
Quote
My worry is that if someone tries to flee from a threaten, and the raider successfully attacks, there is still no lag on the person BEING threatened, who can just spam "flee self" and run away immediately after, while the raider is still recovering and "positioning" from their threatening behavior.

I'm okay with this.  There is no 'you -can't- escape' mode that I would support; this is the closest it comes, I think.  This is where you position, and immediately it comes to your strength and skill making it.  If the flee triggers attacks of opportunity on the way out as well, there will probably be a few cases of insta-ko's that we hear about (I'm not sure if they do.  Threaten 'engages', then the flee happens?  So attacks of opportunity should happen there if the flee skill isn't high, at least sometimes, right?  That's a lot of free attacks.)
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Riev

  • Posts: 5160
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #368 on: December 18, 2017, 03:11:03 PM »
That's a fair point. The chance of attack for them trying to flee, added onto the Attack of Opportunity reaction would at least be enough to say "be careful next time" or administer poison, or in fact do enough damage to drop them.

I'm okay with it.
Masks are the Armageddon equivalent of Ed Hardy shirts.

Veselka

  • Posts: 727
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #369 on: December 18, 2017, 03:34:59 PM »
It also at once seems to encourage threatening (and traveling) with groups of people, as to avoid the consequences in either respect of traveling or threatening on ones own.
Live your life as though your every act were to become a universal law.

--Immanuel Kant

Armaddict

  • Posts: 6127
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #370 on: December 18, 2017, 03:43:06 PM »
One question I'd have, less about the code itself and more about it's use (from other players)...

Threaten vs Guard:
Is guard now something you use only for generic use while idle, or for nonspecificity?  For stopping groups?  It seems drastically more effective for all cases to just threaten off the bat to restrict movement, rather than guard entry into or out of an area.
She wasn't doing a thing that I could see, except standing there leaning on the balcony railing, holding the universe together. --J.D. Salinger

Riev

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Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #371 on: December 18, 2017, 03:50:20 PM »
I would assume that Threaten is just to auto-initiate combat, right out the gate. Conversely, Guard is to prevent someone from moving past in a non-threatening manner.

So you can guard your employer, and step in in case they ARE attacked, or you can overtly threaten someone who MIGHT attack, and intercept them that way.

My concern is: If you're guarding someone, and threaten a third person, do you stop guarding? If you fail the Threat Intercept, does your guard still check?

I'm sure its find out IC, but that's a good question.
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Armaddict

  • Posts: 6127
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #372 on: December 18, 2017, 04:26:48 PM »
Maybe guard should hard-counter threaten?

I.e. 'You move to threaten so and so, but his guard moves between you and so and so.' or 'You move to attack him for moving west, but the guard there moves inbetween you and him.'

She wasn't doing a thing that I could see, except standing there leaning on the balcony railing, holding the universe together. --J.D. Salinger

nessalin

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Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #373 on: December 18, 2017, 06:15:04 PM »
Maybe guard should hard-counter threaten?

I.e. 'You move to threaten so and so, but his guard moves between you and so and so.' or 'You move to attack him for moving west, but the guard there moves inbetween you and him.'

This is already coded.

If the Merchant is guarded by Guard, then Raider will get a fail message when they attempt to 'threaten merchant'.

"You move to threaten a weak-chinned merchant but a broad-chested guard steps in the way!"
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Hauwke

  • Posts: 1643
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #374 on: December 18, 2017, 06:55:00 PM »
I just love those descriptions of the people.

Serious:
I for one foresee a lot of use with raiding, but there is another aspect that has yet to be mentioned, Soldiers.

A soldier could threaten 'bad guy' to effectively, at least somewhat, detain a guy without actually physically holding the dude down, and I think that would be a good thing.