Author Topic: Release Note discussion!  (Read 133615 times)

AdamBlue

  • Posts: 884
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #1025 on: September 21, 2019, 12:04:55 PM »
Supposed to represent a gritty world far removed from our own. Real life influencing a game world in any way shouldn't be applicable, 's all.

rinthrat

  • Posts: 215
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #1026 on: September 21, 2019, 12:09:37 PM »
I'd just like to know what happens with existing PCs.

LindseyBalboa

  • Posts: 169
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #1027 on: September 21, 2019, 12:35:54 PM »
It is a gritty world far removed from our own. One on which people turn adults at sixteen, not thirteen like at some point in some cultures on our own world. There are still children about and all over, PCs just aren't playing them anymore.

LindseyBalboa

  • Posts: 169
Re: Release Notes and finger tats!
« Reply #1028 on: September 21, 2019, 01:05:53 PM »
Also I love the finger tat locs! Yet having used two of the new finger slots, I'd suggest making them line up with existing wear locs (right index finger, right middle finger, right ring finger, right pinkie, right thumb) instead of "right finger, right finger 1, right finger 2, etc." I'm not really sure which finger is which, and I can also have a tattoo on my 'right finger 2' and also ring items on all my fingers and also a missing digit on 'right finger 3' as it is. Thanks!

Veselka

  • Posts: 1115
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #1029 on: September 21, 2019, 01:18:57 PM »
SICK UPDATE
Live your life as though your every act were to become a universal law.

--Immanuel Kant

Barsook

  • Posts: 8231
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #1030 on: September 21, 2019, 02:09:54 PM »
Arm is just getting better and better! Kudos to the staff!

Lutagar

  • Posts: 299
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #1031 on: September 21, 2019, 02:56:21 PM »
-syntax: threaten <character> [bluff|bash|subdue|kill]

Love this change. Is there any chance we could get this expanded to threaten <character>  [backstab|sap|bluff|bash|subdue|kill]?

Enforcers would certainly benefit from the option.

Jihelu

  • Posts: 2839
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #1032 on: September 21, 2019, 02:57:01 PM »
-syntax: threaten <character> [bluff|bash|subdue|kill]

Love this change. Is there any chance we could get this expanded to threaten <character>  [backstab|sap|bluff|bash|subdue|kill]?

Enforcers would certainly benefit from the option.
Sap + backstab have delays, so by the time they actually trigger I'm pretty sure the person would be gone (Assuming they walked out of the room).

Lutagar

  • Posts: 299
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #1033 on: September 21, 2019, 03:04:56 PM »
There's two ways I could see this being delt with.

-Buff threaten so that walking out of the room causes a delay based on skill.
-Remove the delay for threaten induced backstabs/sap. If someone's used threaten bs/sap then they've already given up the the coded advantage by not just having used sap/backstab from stealth, and I don't think they should be punished for that.

Namino

  • Posts: 480
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #1034 on: September 21, 2019, 03:11:30 PM »
There's two ways I could see this being delt with.

-Buff threaten so that walking out of the room causes a delay based on skill.
-Remove the delay for threaten induced backstabs/sap. If someone's used threaten bs/sap then they've already given up the the coded advantage by not just having used sap/backstab from stealth, and I don't think they should be punished for that.

Though they're often used pretty loosey goosey in this regard, backstab and sap are supposed to be surprise attacks. You can't threaten someone openly and then surprise them after that fact when they're100% aware of your intentions and presumably watching you approach, unless you're visualizing a DBZ teleport nothing personnel kid karate chops to the nape of the neck.

Which I guess would be funny.

« Last Edit: September 21, 2019, 03:15:12 PM by Namino »

Lutagar

  • Posts: 299
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #1035 on: September 21, 2019, 03:15:49 PM »
The helpfile for backstab describes it as a critical hit. You can backstab someone that's currently in a fight, aware of your presence and the immediate danger they're in, that's not an oversight, it's a feature.

Namino

  • Posts: 480
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #1036 on: September 21, 2019, 03:19:02 PM »
Quote
Needless to say - this has prompted a lot of discussion on the staff side of things.

We're in a bind, however - as this is 'virgin territory' - the use of the backstab skill in such a way isn't something we've experienced a lot over the history of Armageddon. Mostly due to the difficulty in raising such a skill and the novelty of having a class/subclass combination that can pull off such actions.

The overall feeling is that the skill's utility outside of a "sneak attack" needs to be re-evaluated. We also need to more closely monitor how PCs are using these skills to find out ways to restrict them codedly instead of having to introduce an 'honour system' players need to follow.

Just because it's possible to backstab someone actively fighting you does not mean it was intended that way.

LindseyBalboa

  • Posts: 169
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #1037 on: September 21, 2019, 03:27:29 PM »
You can definitely threaten someone openly and then 'critically' strike them without them being ready for it. Being aware of an incoming strike doesn't mean someone is always aware of a strike from a different direction, even coming from the same fighter. Misdirection is the basis of sparring, and a solid touch when someone is focused on you striking them another way or in another place can put someone unconscious or terribly off-balance.

Namino

  • Posts: 480
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #1038 on: September 21, 2019, 03:34:26 PM »
You can definitely threaten someone openly and then 'critically' strike them without them being ready for it. Being aware of an incoming strike doesn't mean someone is always aware of a strike from a different direction, even coming from the same fighter. Misdirection is the basis of sparring, and a solid touch when someone is focused on you striking them another way or in another place can put someone unconscious or terribly off-balance.

That's not the intended function of those skills. The fact that staff have discussed ways to curtail the ability to backstab people who are aware of your hostile intentions is ample evidence of that.

LindseyBalboa

  • Posts: 169
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #1039 on: September 21, 2019, 03:55:35 PM »
You can definitely threaten someone openly and then 'critically' strike them without them being ready for it. Being aware of an incoming strike doesn't mean someone is always aware of a strike from a different direction, even coming from the same fighter. Misdirection is the basis of sparring, and a solid touch when someone is focused on you striking them another way or in another place can put someone unconscious or terribly off-balance.

That's not the intended function of those skills. The fact that staff have discussed ways to curtail the ability to backstab people who are aware of your hostile intentions is ample evidence of that.

I was responding to the assertion that one would need to be in an anime to strike someone without them expecting it, even if they were aware that they were being threatened.

As it is, the help file contradicts any assumption that someone cannot be aware of you as an entity. Talking on the boards doesn't change the established rules in the help file. You do not need to be hidden. You can attack people fighting, at a difficulty increase. Threatening someone with a backstab or sap could be as simple as the threatener letting the victim think they called their bluff and letting them walk on - before striking them in the side of the head. As someone noted, you've already given up your surprise there by letting your victim know you intend to attack them - and opening yourself up to pre-emptive violence or action.

Namino

  • Posts: 480
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #1040 on: September 21, 2019, 04:03:20 PM »
The reason you can backstab while vis is because it allows for socially engineered surprise attacks (reaching for my coinpurse.... oh wait it was a shiv! *stick*) rather than exclusively restricting the skill to a jump outta the shadows batman move.

Unfortunately there's no current coded metric to gauge how aware of your hostile intentions another PC is. The whole 'it's a strike coming from a direction they're not anticipating' is less true than it being a strike they're not anticipating at all.

If it was simple misdirection then you could backstab while codedly in combat instead of having to disengage stab disengage Stab for the current cheese against an occupied target.

Misdirection is part of sparring. Namely it's probably already part of auto fighting unless you want me to think our characters are going "swinging left to right at your head now get reeeeeeady" during their normal attacks. Backstab is when your target isn't mounting any defense because they don't even realize they're under attack, be it because they don't know you're there or because they don't know you have hostile intent.

Dune Bunny

  • Posts: 79
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #1041 on: September 21, 2019, 06:17:38 PM »
Finger tats is awesome!

Any chance we'll ever see arms/forearms as left arm/right arm, left forearm/right forearm for tattoo locations? Gotta have one arm for the faces of slain enemies, and the other for slain friends. (Hey, sometimes they do cross, but not always!)

X-D

  • Posts: 5755
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #1042 on: September 22, 2019, 11:24:10 AM »
I think the age thing is mildly amusing...I mean, I don't really care what actual number it is set at...as long as the coded affects of age when starting a PC remains the same for say a 16 year old as if they had started at 13. Because the age number is meaningless.

Also, By the math, if you assume that the zalanthan hour is the same as an earth hour then even a 16 year old is only 11 earth years old. Of course it could be the other way around and a 13 year old zalanthan might be 22 earth years old. The entire beginning premise was mildly silly and all of it pointless. But hey, likely took staff a few seconds to fix something that was drawing stupid complaints/comments...So I guess to that I am for it.

Just think, If you were born on mars and 26 earth years old you would not even be 13 yet. :)

I am more interested on the "how game treats manifested verses unmanifested mages" I was unaware that being manifested or not was a coded thing.
Where is that documented?
A gaunt, yellow-skinned gith shrieks in fear, and hauls ass.
Lizzie:
If you -want- me to think that your character is a hybrid of a black kryl and a white push-broom shaped like a penis, then you've done a great job

Lutagar

  • Posts: 299
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #1043 on: September 22, 2019, 11:28:52 AM »
I am more interested on the "how game treats manifested verses unmanifested mages" I was unaware that being manifested or not was a coded thing.
Where is that documented?

It's not a coded thing, it just means you're playing a character with an elementalist subclass that's unaware they have magick.

Since they're not aware no one else can be aware either so you can grind your mundane skills to a survivable level before the hunting inevitably starts.


Nevermind. I see what you mean. This is a guess, but maybe certain interactions with magic behave differently if you've never casted before?
« Last Edit: September 22, 2019, 11:31:12 AM by Lutagar »

Nathvaan

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 425
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #1044 on: September 22, 2019, 12:44:34 PM »
I am more interested on the "how game treats manifested verses unmanifested mages" I was unaware that being manifested or not was a coded thing.
Where is that documented?

It's not a coded thing, it just means you're playing a character with an elementalist subclass that's unaware they have magick.

Since they're not aware no one else can be aware either so you can grind your mundane skills to a survivable level before the hunting inevitably starts.


Nevermind. I see what you mean. This is a guess, but maybe certain interactions with magic behave differently if you've never casted before?

A change was made some time ago to codedly indicate manifestation in order to give options to a player who wishes to play without the possibility of being 'outed by the code' as a magicker until they manifest their abilities. There are a few fringe cases we have run into in the past that unfairly outed characters as magickers. 

This bug fix was to include the manifested state for when a character chooses to get an Allanak gem before entering the game when getting gear.  This indicates that in the character's past they went to a templar to 'register' as a caster therefore consider themselves a magicker.

Nao

  • Posts: 2021
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #1045 on: September 22, 2019, 12:59:59 PM »
What happens when someone manifests IG, but has not cast a single spell yet? It seems common enough that people just manifest by emoting some cantrips, especially inside of cities.
A rusty brown kank explodes into little bits.

Someone says, out of character:
     "I had to fix something in this zone.. YOU WEREN'T HERE 2 minutes ago :)"

X-D

  • Posts: 5755
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #1046 on: September 22, 2019, 04:37:40 PM »
So...this is a state a player has to ask for before aping PC? IE request tool?
A gaunt, yellow-skinned gith shrieks in fear, and hauls ass.
Lizzie:
If you -want- me to think that your character is a hybrid of a black kryl and a white push-broom shaped like a penis, then you've done a great job

LindseyBalboa

  • Posts: 169
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #1047 on: September 22, 2019, 04:40:28 PM »
It's just a toggle specifically for whether or not you're entering the game already wearing a gem, ie, declared as manifested.

Nameless Face

  • Posts: 422
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #1048 on: September 22, 2019, 05:52:11 PM »
I am confuzzled.

Hauwke

  • Posts: 2201
Re: Release Note discussion!
« Reply #1049 on: September 22, 2019, 06:23:10 PM »
There are ways of stuff, and this prevents that stuff from being a thing that happens if it should not happen.

This is my understanding of it.