Author Topic: It's 2016, why are we assuming gender?  (Read 4857 times)

Reiloth

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Re: It's 2016, why are we assuming gender?
« Reply #50 on: December 15, 2016, 05:33:15 PM »
If people lodge complaints about something that's not against policy, the target of the complaint shouldn't hear anything.

Personally I just chalk anything physically weird up to "mutations", the rest to Zalanthas' particular gender roles (or lack thereof) and roll with it. This doesn't need to be a big deal. Don't worry how others play, just worry how about how your character ought to react.

Yarp.
"You will have useful work: the destruction of evil men. What work could be more useful? This is Beyond; you will find that your work is never done -- So therefore you may never know a life of peace."

~Jack Vance~

Fathi

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Re: It's 2016, why are we assuming gender?
« Reply #51 on: December 15, 2016, 05:49:01 PM »
I love the idea of being able to choose your gender presentation like half-elf presentation, but in the meantime the method Nergal described is fine for me.

As a player, I always, always, always err on the side of RP. If something seems ambiguous and there's no roleplayed reason my PC would know the truth of something--from gender to whether someone's a magicker to whether they're a dangerous wanted criminal--then I always err on the side of making my character a dipshit because the game is way more fun that way.
And I vanish into the dark
And rise above my station

LauraMars

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Re: It's 2016, why are we assuming gender?
« Reply #52 on: December 15, 2016, 06:35:15 PM »
It may interest people to know that there are androgynous/hermaphroditic npcs in the game, with documentation and everything. There's just, unfortunately, no real coded way to handle them other than giving them the gender neutral/sort of offensive 'it' pronoun.

I'd like more options for display/presentation, myself. I won't die without it, and there's ways to work around the code, but I think it would still be kinda nice. It has nothing to do with being politically correct, and everything to do with being interesting and increasing appeal (how many games - even roleplaying games - let non-binary people represent themselves?) Besides, having more interplay with genders is just cool from a writing perspective, and it feels appropriate for the "anything goes" nature of the game.
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A voice whispers, "Read the tales upon the walls."

Reiloth

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Re: It's 2016, why are we assuming gender?
« Reply #53 on: December 15, 2016, 06:41:16 PM »
Hmmmmm. Even having an option at chargen that is like, super liberal forward thinking.

What is the gender your PC was born as? (Male/Female)

What gender do they present as? (Male/Female)

That might be too many steps for people not familiar with gender roles...Or who don't care about them, though.

EDIT:
Oh, someone already posted this on the last page.

I'm also fine with the way Nergal has presented it, that's how I already do it, too.

Then again...I'm not exactly sure why 'male/female' is attached to facewraps. I guess because the rest of your body is visible? But it does seem like an unneccesary thing to add. If you want to figure out if the facewrap was a male/female, you should have to read their mdesc and figure it out. If it's ambiguous from the mdesc...Uh...Then I guess too bad?
« Last Edit: December 15, 2016, 06:43:24 PM by Reiloth »
"You will have useful work: the destruction of evil men. What work could be more useful? This is Beyond; you will find that your work is never done -- So therefore you may never know a life of peace."

~Jack Vance~

boog

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Re: It's 2016, why are we assuming gender?
« Reply #54 on: December 15, 2016, 06:43:13 PM »
Hmmmmm. Even having an option at chargen that is like, super liberal forward thinking.

What is the gender your PC was born as? (Male/Female)

What gender do they present as? (Male/Female)

That might be too many steps for people not familiar with gender roles...Or who don't care about them, though.

Yeah. I guarantee you if anyone in a rural part of NC decided to give Armageddon a whirl and saw that, they'd immediately go, 'what the fuck is a gender presentation?'
Case: he's more likely to shoot up a mcdonalds for selling secret obama sauce on its big macs
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Reiloth

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Re: It's 2016, why are we assuming gender?
« Reply #55 on: December 15, 2016, 06:43:52 PM »
Hmmmmm. Even having an option at chargen that is like, super liberal forward thinking.

What is the gender your PC was born as? (Male/Female)

What gender do they present as? (Male/Female)

That might be too many steps for people not familiar with gender roles...Or who don't care about them, though.

Yeah. I guarantee you if anyone in a rural part of NC decided to give Armageddon a whirl and saw that, they'd immediately go, 'what the fuck is a gender presentation?'

They might be in for a surprise when they get in game, tho...
"You will have useful work: the destruction of evil men. What work could be more useful? This is Beyond; you will find that your work is never done -- So therefore you may never know a life of peace."

~Jack Vance~

bardlyone

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Re: It's 2016, why are we assuming gender?
« Reply #56 on: December 15, 2016, 06:50:03 PM »
I'd be happy with this instead, and the understanding that it does not determine a gender role or biological sex, but instead JUST the pronouns used with targets and commands to refer to your pc.

Code: [Select]
What name do you wish to call yourself?
What is your character's sex? (M/F/N)
Quote from: Maester Aemon Targaryen
What is honor compared to a woman’s love? ...Wind and words. Wind and words. We are only human, and the gods have fashioned us for love. That is our great glory, and our great tragedy.

Marauder Moe

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Re: It's 2016, why are we assuming gender?
« Reply #57 on: December 15, 2016, 07:03:37 PM »
What is the gender your PC was born as? (Male/Female)

What gender do they present as? (Male/Female)

The former would have zero coded relevance, though, so why bother?

Malken

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Re: It's 2016, why are we assuming gender?
« Reply #58 on: December 15, 2016, 07:04:49 PM »
No, you either look female or you look male. Pick one. That's your game sex. Nobody cares afterward if you have a penis or not. If you look neither male nor female, exactly 50% 50%, then you're a special snowflake and you need to special app.

OP was talking about facewraps and such - this is a totally different topic.
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flurry

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Re: It's 2016, why are we assuming gender?
« Reply #59 on: December 15, 2016, 07:14:11 PM »
In addition - "they" and "their" indicate plural. If you are twins, or multiple personalities, it fits. If you are not twins, or multiple personalities, it doesn't fit. If you want to play gender neutral, then use a gender neutral pronoun: it. And possessive pronoun its. And contracted "it is" to it's.

If you're not him or her, you're it.

Let's test that one out.

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"Oh yeah? What did it say?"
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bcw81

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Re: It's 2016, why are we assuming gender?
« Reply #60 on: December 15, 2016, 07:35:16 PM »
'They' would work in that sentence.

they
T͟Hā/Submit
pronoun
1.
used to refer to two or more people or things previously mentioned or easily identified.
"the two men could get life sentences if they are convicted"
2.
used to refer to a person of unspecified sex.
"ask someone if they could help"
« Last Edit: December 15, 2016, 07:37:48 PM by bcw81 »

Quote
A female voice says, in sirihish:
     "] yer a wizard, oashi"

Reiloth

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Re: It's 2016, why are we assuming gender?
« Reply #61 on: December 15, 2016, 07:50:02 PM »
The They wearing a grey, sandcloth facewrap is standing here.
"You will have useful work: the destruction of evil men. What work could be more useful? This is Beyond; you will find that your work is never done -- So therefore you may never know a life of peace."

~Jack Vance~

Orin

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Re: It's 2016, why are we assuming gender?
« Reply #62 on: December 15, 2016, 07:56:48 PM »
It seems to me it would be pretty easy to simply modify the code to remove the male/female options in the sdesc when someone wears a facewrap.  When wearing a hood you already don't have to worry about it, you appear as a figure.

The figure in a dark, desert-sandcloth facewrap

/end of thread
You notice: A war beetle squeezes out an Orin-sized ball of dung.

Lizzie

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Re: It's 2016, why are we assuming gender?
« Reply #63 on: December 15, 2016, 08:00:28 PM »
You could go the Octavia Butler route and check out the ooloi stuff. I don't remember how they referred to themselves, or how others referred to them, but I'm pretty sure it was "it." It was the third sex. There was male, female, and ooloi. Him, her, it.

Also, the facewrap thing - I give you exhibit A:

The buxom, curvy woman.

Wearing a facewrap.
And a bra.
And a tight pair of pants.

The code should hide the fact that it's a female just because she's covering the bottom half of her face? Seriously?

And don't suppose that this is an isolated incident. There lots of buxom, or curvy, or wide-hipped, or otherwise OBVIOUSLY female-written PCs in the game. Often. The code should absolutely positively NOT hide their gender just because the lower half of their face is covered. If they're wearing a cloak, then the cloak is obscuring the most obvious features. If they're wearing a cowl - it isn't obscuring them and I don't think those should hide their gender either.

Things that cover the head, but not the rest of the body, should NOT hide gender.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2016, 08:10:05 PM by Lizzie »
Talia said: Notice to all: Do not mess with Lizzie's GDB. She will cut you.
Delirium said: Notice to all: do not mess with Lizzie's soap. She will cut you.

Raptor_Dan

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Re: It's 2016, why are we assuming gender?
« Reply #64 on: December 15, 2016, 08:08:17 PM »
Oh lord.

*tries desperately to close pandora's box*
I'm just looking for a general consensus. Or Moe's opinion. Either one generally can be accepted as canon.

LauraMars

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Re: It's 2016, why are we assuming gender?
« Reply #65 on: December 15, 2016, 08:17:36 PM »
*cheerfully dropkicks pandora's box*

In my dream world I'd be able to set what coded gender I'm presenting as at will. Paint on a mustache and be a dude for a day. Stuff some melons down my shirt, cinch up a corset and pass as a girl.

With appropriate roleplay of course.
Child, child, if you come to this doomed house, what is to save you?

A voice whispers, "Read the tales upon the walls."

Reiloth

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Re: It's 2016, why are we assuming gender?
« Reply #66 on: December 15, 2016, 08:20:40 PM »
*cheerfully dropkicks pandora's box*

In my dream world I'd be able to set what coded gender I'm presenting as at will. Paint on a mustache and be a dude for a day. Stuff some melons down my shirt, cinch up a corset and pass as a girl.

With appropriate roleplay of course.

Completely 100% agree. I have wanted to RP Mrs. Doubtfire and Aladdin scenes and, due to code, cannot.

I'm serious that isn't sarcastic!
"You will have useful work: the destruction of evil men. What work could be more useful? This is Beyond; you will find that your work is never done -- So therefore you may never know a life of peace."

~Jack Vance~

BadSkeelz

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Re: It's 2016, why are we assuming gender?
« Reply #67 on: December 15, 2016, 08:25:16 PM »
In my dream we would have a scale of obscuring for clothing

Masks, facewraps, bandanas, etc hide the sdesc but NOT the sex
Hooded robes, abas, cloaks and the like would hide the sdesc AND the sex

I'd also like the the detail of an sdesc to drop depending on distance.

So there.
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bardlyone

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Re: It's 2016, why are we assuming gender?
« Reply #68 on: December 15, 2016, 08:27:09 PM »
*cheerfully dropkicks pandora's box*

In my dream world I'd be able to set what coded gender I'm presenting as at will. Paint on a mustache and be a dude for a day. Stuff some melons down my shirt, cinch up a corset and pass as a girl.

With appropriate roleplay of course.


Not going to lie, if neutral pronouns existed, 95% of the time, I'd be down for using those, especially if the gender thing was removed from facewrap/cloak stuff, so I could do this very thing. Genderfluidity ftw.
Quote from: Maester Aemon Targaryen
What is honor compared to a woman’s love? ...Wind and words. Wind and words. We are only human, and the gods have fashioned us for love. That is our great glory, and our great tragedy.

Lizzie

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Re: It's 2016, why are we assuming gender?
« Reply #69 on: December 15, 2016, 08:32:39 PM »
I like both LauraMars' and BadSkeelz' take on it. When you think your character is appearing, or vocalizing, more like a female than a male, then your pronoun can toggle back and forth. Downside to that is the same as the downside to movement/talk aliases - if you forget to re-toggle appropriately you end up being the bald female with the male voice and mustache, or the male with melon-sized knockers. Also, the sdesc morphing to a "figure" as you gain distance from whoever you're looking at.
Talia said: Notice to all: Do not mess with Lizzie's GDB. She will cut you.
Delirium said: Notice to all: do not mess with Lizzie's soap. She will cut you.

Orin

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Re: It's 2016, why are we assuming gender?
« Reply #70 on: December 15, 2016, 08:34:45 PM »
Sounds like a decent compromise.
You notice: A war beetle squeezes out an Orin-sized ball of dung.

MeTekillot

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Re: It's 2016, why are we assuming gender?
« Reply #71 on: December 15, 2016, 09:06:43 PM »
I wish shouting and talking in the dark just pulled from a voice description you could set at chargen and in description change requests instead of being male/female/whatever.

BadSkeelz

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Re: It's 2016, why are we assuming gender?
« Reply #72 on: December 15, 2016, 09:12:20 PM »
Code: [Select]
The tall muscular man kicks you in the pelvis, making you see stars!

Your voice changes from Deep to High.

>change voice deep

You can't do that yet, you're in too much pain.
janeshephard: You really think BadSkeelz understands the concept of Wine In Front of me? This guy shot me as a townie when he felt threatened. The man's a neandrathal.

Miradus: He's not some weird mental abomination. He's just a guy on the internet.

bardlyone

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Re: It's 2016, why are we assuming gender?
« Reply #73 on: December 15, 2016, 11:18:02 PM »
I wish shouting and talking in the dark just pulled from a voice description you could set at chargen and in description change requests instead of being male/female/whatever.

That would also be sweet.
Quote from: Maester Aemon Targaryen
What is honor compared to a woman’s love? ...Wind and words. Wind and words. We are only human, and the gods have fashioned us for love. That is our great glory, and our great tragedy.

boog

  • Posts: 10734
Re: It's 2016, why are we assuming gender?
« Reply #74 on: December 16, 2016, 12:29:29 AM »
the really loud half-italian woman shouts, 'you fuckin' idiots ate all my meatballs!' from the south
Case: he's more likely to shoot up a mcdonalds for selling secret obama sauce on its big macs
Kismet: didn't see you in GQ homey
BadSkeelz: Whatever you say, Kim Jong Boog
Quote from: Tuannon
There is only one boog.