Author Topic: Sponsored Roles and Role Playing - Quality... what?  (Read 21276 times)

Jingo

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Re: Sponsored Roles and Role Playing - Quality... what?
« Reply #225 on: November 26, 2016, 05:02:42 PM »
I call bullshit. One person systematically ruined multiple plotlines? Without killing several people in turn? Come on.

Either those plots were more fragile than glass, or you just gave up on them the moment you hit a speedbump.
Now you're looking for the secret. But you won’t find it because of course, you're not really looking. You don't really want to work it out. You want to be fooled.

Armaddict

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Re: Sponsored Roles and Role Playing - Quality... what?
« Reply #226 on: November 26, 2016, 05:05:18 PM »
Jingo has never had death as part of plots explained to him.

Jingo has never experienced a non-run-of-the-mill PK.

Jingo has never insistently pulled unrelated threads back to the idea of 'You guys should kill less.'

Seriously.  3rd time in this thread alone.  Stop it.
She wasn't doing a thing that I could see, except standing there leaning on the balcony railing, holding the universe together. --J.D. Salinger

Lizzie

  • Posts: 8018
Re: Sponsored Roles and Role Playing - Quality... what?
« Reply #227 on: November 26, 2016, 05:08:33 PM »
I call bullshit. One person systematically ruined multiple plotlines? Without killing several people in turn? Come on.

Either those plots were more fragile than glass, or you just gave up on them the moment you hit a speedbump.

I think you forgot to read the whole post. Here's the part you obviously missed:
Quote
Many OTHER characters were killed as either a direct or indirect result of this "enemy" character -

and by the time people finally realized someone had to get off the shitter and DO something about it, this person was considered "hands off" by the "IC powers that be" and was politically untouchable.
Talia said: Notice to all: Do not mess with Lizzie's GDB. She will cut you.
Delirium said: Notice to all: do not mess with Lizzie's soap. She will cut you.

Jingo

  • Posts: 4791
Re: Sponsored Roles and Role Playing - Quality... what?
« Reply #228 on: November 26, 2016, 05:10:12 PM »
Jingo has never had death as part of plots explained to him.

Jingo has never experienced a non-run-of-the-mill PK.

Jingo has never insistently pulled unrelated threads back to the idea of 'You guys should kill less.'

Seriously.  3rd time in this thread alone.  Stop it.

Jingo is mostly just sick of playing to lose.
Now you're looking for the secret. But you won’t find it because of course, you're not really looking. You don't really want to work it out. You want to be fooled.

Jingo

  • Posts: 4791
Re: Sponsored Roles and Role Playing - Quality... what?
« Reply #229 on: November 26, 2016, 05:12:50 PM »
I call bullshit. One person systematically ruined multiple plotlines? Without killing several people in turn? Come on.

Either those plots were more fragile than glass, or you just gave up on them the moment you hit a speedbump.

I think you forgot to read the whole post. Here's the part you obviously missed:
Quote
Many OTHER characters were killed as either a direct or indirect result of this "enemy" character -

and by the time people finally realized someone had to get off the shitter and DO something about it, this person was considered "hands off" by the "IC powers that be" and was politically untouchable.

Okay sure. I'd give you a pass given the situation.

But I know I'd be killed on day 2 if I tried to be that guy.
Now you're looking for the secret. But you won’t find it because of course, you're not really looking. You don't really want to work it out. You want to be fooled.

Lutagar

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Re: Sponsored Roles and Role Playing - Quality... what?
« Reply #230 on: November 26, 2016, 05:20:52 PM »
It's mostly knowing how to pick and choose. If you're a rude asshole to absolutely everyone you meet, then it's going to be bad, the key to being a successful asshole is befriending other assholes and knowing who to not fuck with. Err on the side of caution when possible.

Start small. Like a bynner that picks on weaker half-elven clan mates. It's low hanging fruit.. but it really does work. And other characters will respect yours for it.

650Booger

  • Posts: 596
Re: Sponsored Roles and Role Playing - Quality... what?
« Reply #231 on: November 26, 2016, 05:35:40 PM »
aaaaand /thread
"Historical analogy is the last refuge of people who can't grasp the current situation."
-Kim Stanley Robinson

Jingo

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Re: Sponsored Roles and Role Playing - Quality... what?
« Reply #232 on: November 26, 2016, 05:38:26 PM »
Yeah, not even remotely. Picking on elves and breeds is about as meaningless as it gets.

But politely informing a character they are in a place they don't belong? It's enough to put entire settlements under siege and have twinkish bullshit come at you out of the woodwork.

It's a waste of fucking time to even try.
Now you're looking for the secret. But you won’t find it because of course, you're not really looking. You don't really want to work it out. You want to be fooled.

LauraMars

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Re: Sponsored Roles and Role Playing - Quality... what?
« Reply #233 on: November 26, 2016, 06:32:44 PM »
Laura makes an excellent point (this being my understanding of it): instances of a sponsored role 'not adhering to documentation' can be made into entertaining, conflict-rich examples of the documentation in effect (that may or may not end up with the sponsored role 'losing').

There are several parties involved and they're all responsible for different parts of the equation:

The catalyst: the sponsored role who wants to play counter to documentation.
Their responsibilities:
- understand they are playing counter to documentation
"My noble is having sexual relations with this elf/gemmed/mutant PC. I'm aware that this is abnormal and that my noble would be concerned and secretive about this, and would have a powerful internal response to it."

- develop and present this exceptional aspect of their character in a compelling, coherent way to other players and staff
"I need to render this relationship to anyone participating in or watching the scene, such that they understand it's an exceptional circumstance, and such that my character's unique motives and emotions are informing my RP."

- accept that there may be an IC backlash, and be willing to accept the consequences.
"If my noble gets caught having sex with this elf/gemmed/mutant, I understand that they may be killed, or the House may ensure they can't damage the family's reputation anymore (storage). I accept that staff may have to inflict these consequences on my PC."

or

"I didn't think I was going against documentation, but staff contacted me and we had a discussion about how
this behavior was an example of it. I have to accept that I won't get to play out this storyline exactly how I imagined it before. The virtual world will have a response to it if I continue and I'm discovered."

- remember that you signed up to play the embodiment of an example. When you signed up to play Lord Tor, you signed up to represent documented aspects of House Tor to the game and playerbase. If you didn't mention <documentation-breaking behavior> in your approved application, are you upholding your end of the bargain if the behavior prevents your character from being that example?

Sometimes, maybe it won't. Sometimes, maybe it will. All I'm saying is,  honestly ask yourself that question before you proceed.

- give staff the benefit of the doubt, that they're trying to administrate the game in good faith for everyone's benefit

Staff:
- give the player the benefit of the doubt, that they're trying to play the game and their role in good faith

- clearly communicate to the player that their choice is counter to documentation, and that it will have IC consequences if discovered

"Hey, player, we noticed that your noble PC has been having sexual relations with a elf/gemmed/mutant character. <discussion in which both parties talk about the documentation and how this situation relates>"

- once it's determined that the player understands how their choice fits into the documentation, allow the player to make their choice, and then apply a virtual response appropriate for the situation, in a compelling and coherent way

"This player has been informed about the consequences of their noble PC having sexual relations with a elf/gemmed/mutant character. They continued to do it, and were discovered. The House has learned of the sexual relations through IC means.

<staff executes a plot for the players involved, during which the virtual world asserts itself, perhaps to their peril>

Other players, especially those directly involved with the catalyst sponsored role:
- give the player the benefit of the doubt, that they're trying to play the game and their role in good faith

- give staff the benefit of the doubt, that they're trying to administrate the game in good faith for everyone's benefit

- react appropriately for your character, who is likely following documentation on the issue at hand

- be willing to weather the storm of consequences of the sponsored role's choices; if you're standing too close to them, you might get hurt.



If all of the above are followed, nobody feels shafted, and an engaging story has a good chance to result.

However, a caveat: consider how it could become tiresome if every other noble had sex with elf/gemmed/mutant characters, even if all the above were followed in each instance. The dramatic oomph is lessened. It becomes the Same Old Thing.

Further, if there are enough challenges to documentation, it eventually becomes unrepresentative of the game we're playing. This is usually a bad thing. The documentation is our setting.

When you're making the choice to be the exception to documentation, try to ensure it's going to increase the fun of yourself and those around you, and improve the game and our shared story. Which is not to say don't do it; just think about it, and think about how you're going to do it, before you do it.

Everyone read this.
Child, child, if you come to this doomed house, what is to save you?

A voice whispers, "Read the tales upon the walls."

Patuk

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Re: Sponsored Roles and Role Playing - Quality... what?
« Reply #234 on: November 26, 2016, 06:47:02 PM »


The breeds, elves, and the gemmers all go to the Gaj, where it's not all that uncommon for normal humans/dwarves/half-giants to be outnumbered by those who are "outcasts".



Don't elves make up like half the virtual population of allanak?  I don't see them as outcasts.

No, they do not.  I think it's around 25% at most, I cannot seem to find the docs we had on it.  Humans have the majority, elves are next up on that list though.  Half-elves are supposed to be considered rare because both races despise them, and their creation is supposed to also be very rare.  Either way, this is getting off topic.

I gotcha.

Quote
Tuluk (350,000)
219,000 humans (50% are slaves) (62.6% of total)
108,500 elves (10% are slaves) (31% of Total)
3,500 dwarves (65% are slaves) (1% of Total)
3,500 half-giants (80% are slaves) (1% of Total)
7,000 half-elves (40% are slaves) (2% of total)
1,500 muls (98% are slaves) (0.4% of total)
7,000 unknown/other/mutant (25% are slaves) (2% of Total)


Allanak (481,880)
310,000 humans (50% are slaves) (150,000 free) (64.3% of total)
150,000 elves (10% are slaves) (135,500 free) (31.1% of total)
7,500 dwarves (65% are slaves) (2,600 free) (1.8% of total)
3,800 half-giants (20% are slaves) (3,150 free) (0.8% of total)
5,800 half-elves (40% are slaves) (3,400 free) (1.3% of total)
1980 muls (99% are slaves) (18 free) (0.4% of total)
2,800 unknown/other/mutant (40% are slaves) (1,400 free) (~0.6% of total)

Given these statistics, Elves are, indeed, not half of Allanak's population. They are pretty close to half of Allanak's free population, however, being about 40% of that. Things like this post:

[...]

For example, in Allanak, there is only one elf bar that I'm aware of - and it's in the Labyrinth, which is fairly dangerous. Granted, it seems like most city elves are 'rinthers.

The breeds, elves, and the gemmers all go to the Gaj, where it's not all that uncommon for normal humans/dwarves/half-giants to be outnumbered by those who are "outcasts".

[...]

.. speak of the documentation clearly not being translated well at all in the playerbase proper. There is a veritable ton of city-elves in Allanak right now, but it's still not very clear to 40%. Additionally, speaking of outcast elves but dwarves/half-giants being somehow 'normal' is an actual case of the world being upside down: both of these are so rare that even the half-elves are more numerous. Notably, dwarves and half-giants both come in at less than a single percent of the population each, making them more uncommon than real-world groups like homosexuals, who fit the outcast bill we're talking about much better.

(Go play a celf, it's the best possible time to do so.)

Outcasts are dwarves, half-giants, magickers, foreigners, mutants, and half-elves who can't 'pass', because there's so few of them. Elves, OTOH, are just too numerous.
Quote
You take the last bite of your scooby snack.
This tastes like ordinary meat.
There is nothing left now.

Kalden

  • Posts: 866
Re: Sponsored Roles and Role Playing - Quality... what?
« Reply #235 on: November 26, 2016, 11:32:48 PM »
Where do those population numbers come from? That's really cool.

Well, this is kind of veering off, but I'll try to defend my position on the social status of city elves because I think my perspective is valid and largely correct:

If the metric is population size, African-Americans would have never been outcasts: not when they were slaves and especially not when when they had only nominal rights to vote in many states, and so on. Even now, the place where they have some of the highest population such as the American South is where they face the most discrimination and segregation. And there's plenty of other examples throughout history. Keep in mind that Zalanthas is actually supposedly a wee bit harsher than the real world and especially a place like the United States, which had all these high-minded principles about people's rights and such codified in a constitution.

The social status of elves in the docs is perhaps not super-clear (the City Elf Roleplay only mentions the "problems they cause for the rest of the occupants of the city"), but having played a couple long-lived city elves and many more desert elves, I can't see how such an alien race with a proud culture of thievery wouldn't face widespread discrimination and suspicion. Imagine this: if you grew up in Zalanthas and interacted regularly with elves, you've probably been swindled by them at least once.

And yes, there's always risks to treating people poorly. Same in real-life: when white people refused service to black people in the South, sometimes that came back to haunt them. Except when a discriminated person reacts, the law gets involved. And how many of the Militia are elves? Compare that to how many of the Militia are, say, half-giants, and the policy on accepting other races such as dwarves.

When you think about this and imagine a lifetime growing up in this world, you get a sense for a system which is RIGGED against certain population segments - where you are typically the scapegoat when problems arise. And I think that trying to immerse yourself in that world is FUN, regardless of which side you are on. It's fun to imagine growing up in a world where you are different and the odds are stacked against you, just as it's a different type of fun to imagine the opposite.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2016, 11:39:33 PM by Kalden »

Dunetrade55

  • Posts: 402
Re: Sponsored Roles and Role Playing - Quality... what?
« Reply #236 on: November 27, 2016, 01:01:51 AM »
I... can't comment on the RPing an asshole thing, other than to say every PC I play is an asshole somehow. I can say Lizzie is spot on in that sometimes when you let shit slide and DON'T kill someone, it kicks you in the butt again, and again, and all you can think is good christ why did i not kill this fucker before?.. sometimes, though, the guy you're wishing was dead isn't actually a shit roleplayer though, you just got the short end of the stick several times.

My body is craving sugar something fierce.... I'm going to down a bottle of pancake syrup at this rate.
I'm asking for evidence, not telling you all to fuck off.

No, I'm telling you to fuck off, now, because you're being a little bitch.

Is Friday

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Re: Sponsored Roles and Role Playing - Quality... what?
« Reply #237 on: November 27, 2016, 02:13:14 AM »
Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread. I enjoyed reading it. Lots of great suggestions for an idyllic way to handle staff/player interactions in the case of sponsored roles.
And then I sat there going "really? that was it? that's so stupid."

I still think the best closure you get in Armageddon is just moving on to the next character.

Ath

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Re: Sponsored Roles and Role Playing - Quality... what?
« Reply #238 on: November 27, 2016, 03:37:18 AM »
As there was no questions for staff that I could see and we're getting on a slight derail, I'm closing this one up.  Thanks for all the great feedback and some excellent posts.

This topic hit the nail on the head with what I was hoping for, so I appreciate it.  I'm very glad to see that people are okay with us being strict on Sponsored Roles, but at the same point, keep open communication with the players that are playing in this role.  If anything, this will help us look at our current documentation and improve upon it.
Ourla:  You're like the oil paint on the canvas of evil.