Author Topic: The Gem  (Read 6664 times)

The Lonely Hunter

  • Posts: 770
Re: The Gem
« Reply #25 on: November 04, 2016, 05:01:10 PM »
Well.
Scribble is kind of crappy.
Same with being unable to hide the gem.

That doesn't give people the liberty to make up their own ways around the code - like giving sparring weapons to NPCs and forcing them to spar.
"People survive by climbing over anyone who gets in their way, by cheating, stealing, killing, swindling, or otherwise taking advantage of others."
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Jihelu

  • Posts: 2580
Re: The Gem
« Reply #26 on: November 04, 2016, 09:02:10 PM »
Well.
Scribble is kind of crappy.
Same with being unable to hide the gem.

That doesn't give people the liberty to make up their own ways around the code - like giving sparring weapons to NPCs and forcing them to spar.
There's a large difference between that and using arrange on a dagger.
Shade, profits, and George Bush did 9/11

evilcabbage

  • Posts: 1878
Re: The Gem
« Reply #27 on: November 04, 2016, 09:49:32 PM »
there is an immense difference between wearing a scarf on your neck that would REALISTICALLY be able to be draped over a gem, and giving sparring weapons to an npc to spar with them.

stop trying to pretend like they're breaking some kind of rule just because they're using tdesc AS IT IS INTENDED TO BE USED in situations where their gear may be arranged in a specific manner.
I could give a shit about wholesome.

Narana

  • Posts: 24
Re: The Gem
« Reply #28 on: November 04, 2016, 10:16:57 PM »
I find myself agreeing with a cabbage.

What a day.
Counting all the assholes in the room...

                                                     Well...
                                                                       Im definitely not alone!

Hauwke

  • Posts: 1241
Re: The Gem
« Reply #29 on: November 05, 2016, 01:18:56 AM »
Ive never has the oppurtunity to even wear one of the gems IG, i plan to in the near future if the karma gods are good to me or I can spec app something nice.

Back on topic:
Perhaps we do in fact need a way to codedly hide it if people get so very upset about tdesc being used the way I see it as meant to be used.

Re: The Gem
« Reply #30 on: November 05, 2016, 02:38:30 AM »
You can app a pc who isn't a witch but was tricked somehow into believing they were and got gemmed. Go ahead and try it, then hide that shit all day long.
Do yourself a favor, and play Resident Evil 4 again.

evilcabbage

  • Posts: 1878
Re: The Gem
« Reply #31 on: November 05, 2016, 02:51:18 AM »
i don't think that is necessarily a good idea, but i think i heard about it happening once before?
I could give a shit about wholesome.

Jihelu

  • Posts: 2580
Re: The Gem
« Reply #32 on: November 05, 2016, 02:55:11 AM »
There is a very obvious way to see if you are an actual witch when you have a gem.
That is all.
Shade, profits, and George Bush did 9/11

manipura

  • Posts: 1499
Re: The Gem
« Reply #33 on: November 05, 2016, 04:32:50 AM »
there is an immense difference between wearing a scarf on your neck that would REALISTICALLY be able to be draped over a gem, and giving sparring weapons to an npc to spar with them.

stop trying to pretend like they're breaking some kind of rule just because they're using tdesc AS IT IS INTENDED TO BE USED in situations where their gear may be arranged in a specific manner.

Sometimes my issue isn't so much with tdesc being used to realistically describe something obscuring the gem...it's when someone's actions and equipment in no way imply there is something covering the gem, but the tdesc says there is.
I've seen tdescs implying that a scarf is over someone's gem...and looking at them their neck slot is open.  They don't even have a scarf or bandana in their inventory that they're using.  Or they have a necklace or some other neck item that they are actively emoting with (usually a necklace or some kind of trinket) ...but their tdesc implies something is draped over the entire area obscuring things.

If you want to be hiding your gem, that's fine...get a scarf or bandana or some sort of wrap and wear it around your neck.  If what you can track down isn't actually wearable around your neck, have it in your inventory or something.  Then make your tdesc explain that an item around your neck is draped to obscure the gem around your throat.  When there are common items in game to serve the purpose you're describing, I think it's reasonable to expect someone to use those items.  And when I see someone who has made an effort to use items to support their more elaborate tdesc, I'm more inclined to go along with things.

path

  • Posts: 1434
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Re: The Gem
« Reply #34 on: November 05, 2016, 11:53:56 AM »
I think it's sort've like a bindi. Particularly if you're Allanaki, you're culturally highly likely to take note of it, even at first glance.

If you're from elsewhere, you might not even know what the gem means. That's probably how I would play it. When in doubt, I up my character's ignorance.

evilcabbage

  • Posts: 1878
Re: The Gem
« Reply #35 on: November 06, 2016, 08:11:30 AM »
at this point everybody knows what the gem is because it has been around for so long that almost nobody has any reason not to know.

particularly since the gemmed presence is literally almost everywhere. they go all over. that people wouldn't know of the gem only speaks to them being new to the game.

someone else can say otherwise (staff), but until then... if you've played the game at all, you kind of know what the gem is by now.
I could give a shit about wholesome.

Lizzie

  • Posts: 7490
Re: The Gem
« Reply #36 on: November 06, 2016, 09:17:17 AM »
cabbage that is completely not true. There exists an entire city, where the vast majority of its citizens might have heard "gem" exists, but have never seen one and wouldn't recognize that's what it was if they saw it. They might think it's just some unattractive jewelry. Most PCs who start out in Morins are either Tuluk citizens, or northern-born citizens, who again - might certainly have heard of the gem, but have never actually seen one and wouldn't recognize that's what it was if they saw it.

Some tribals might have heard of "the gemmed" of Allanak but have zero idea of what it means, and wouldn't know it involved a chunk of obsidian hanging from a rope around someone's neck. Afterall, obsidian isn't a gem. It's a hunk of hardened lava. It's not even technically a rock, it's glass. Anyone living near the volcano would absolutely not recognize the obsidian chunk around someone's neck as a gem. They wouldn't equate the two. They might think - oh, what a stupid use for this rock, they make better arrowheads - but I'm not seeing anyone with a diamond around their neck so where's the gemmed guy I was warned about?

The universal knowledge of the gem is an OOC knowledge, not an IC knowledge. Anyone from Allanak would know. Anyone from Red Storm would know. Anyone -from- Luir's would know, but only some who *visit* Luir's would know. Beyond that, it's not "universal" knowledge that "the obsidian chunk hanging from the guy's neck is the "gem" I've heard about."
Talia said: Notice to all: Do not mess with Lizzie's GDB. She will cut you.
Delirium said: Notice to all: do not mess with Lizzie's soap. She will cut you.

evilcabbage

  • Posts: 1878
Re: The Gem
« Reply #37 on: November 06, 2016, 09:43:59 AM »
you mean an entire city where the vast majority of the citizens are told of the horrors of the allanaki gemmed and the awful magick they employ, and how to identify said gemmed so they can report them to their local templar or eliminate them immediately? because that seems more likely than an entire city -not- knowing that allanak employs a force of terror that caused untold destruction to their beloved city.
I could give a shit about wholesome.

Lizzie

  • Posts: 7490
Re: The Gem
« Reply #38 on: November 06, 2016, 10:31:54 AM »
you mean an entire city where the vast majority of the citizens are told of the horrors of the allanaki gemmed and the awful magick they employ, and how to identify said gemmed so they can report them to their local templar or eliminate them immediately? because that seems more likely than an entire city -not- knowing that allanak employs a force of terror that caused untold destruction to their beloved city.

No, most people in/from the city are -not- told how to identify the gem. Most are told "there is no threat, everything is fine, move along, citizen" and their Legions are told how to identify the gem. Most people in/from the city are not Legionairres. In fact, most people in/from the city aren't even employed by any of the noble houses. Most are just commoners. And most PCs who are in/from the north, inked northerners, are -not- employees of any northern house, and aren't born from parents who are employees of any northern house, so even their own parents are not likely to have learned how to identify the gem. They would've certainly learned that Allanak employs a force of terror, but the events you refer to occurred before some of them were born, and many of them were too young to understand what was going on.

If you're from the north and you see someone wearing a gem, it is POSSIBLE BUT NOT LIKELY that you would recognize its significance. If you do recognize its significance, you should make sure your character has reason to know, because recognition of a gem is likely to attract the attention of the local law enforcement. "How do you know it's a mage's gem? You've seen them before eh? How many gemmers have you hung out with? Are you sleeping with one? You must've gotten pretty close to them to be able to tell it wasn't just some carved black necklace, but instead, a mage's gem. How close DID you get to this person, anyway?"
Talia said: Notice to all: Do not mess with Lizzie's GDB. She will cut you.
Delirium said: Notice to all: do not mess with Lizzie's soap. She will cut you.

evilcabbage

  • Posts: 1878
Re: The Gem
« Reply #39 on: November 06, 2016, 10:51:18 AM »
"for thousands of years these gemmed have existed, many hundreds upon thousands of hunters have seen them and noted their existence to cities and merchants near and far, but this entire city experiences a five-hundred year mindwipe to ensure nobody ever remembers the bounties places on gemmed or the hunters who talked about gem-wearing folks harassing those outside the city".

sound preposterous? it kind of does to me too. i don't really buy into your theory or explanation of things. something that big would be known by most everybody because it's been so prevalent and discussed all over the place. it's almost impossible to 'not' know something like that.
I could give a shit about wholesome.

Raptor_Dan

  • Posts: 313
Re: The Gem
« Reply #40 on: November 06, 2016, 02:34:59 PM »
"for thousands of years these gemmed have existed, many hundreds upon thousands of hunters have seen them and noted their existence to cities and merchants near and far, but this entire city experiences a five-hundred year mindwipe to ensure nobody ever remembers the bounties places on gemmed or the hunters who talked about gem-wearing folks harassing those outside the city".

sound preposterous? it kind of does to me too. i don't really buy into your theory or explanation of things. something that big would be known by most everybody because it's been so prevalent and discussed all over the place. it's almost impossible to 'not' know something like that.

For above average intelligence? Maybe, maybe, but I live in a place where 'Muslims' are ostracized, attacked, demands to deport them come from everywhere, and they're murdered. Hell, down here in the south, they still set black churches on fire. But for all of this muslim hate, few people actually know the difference between eastern indian and middle-eastern, the turban one nationality wears, and the turban a specific religion wears.

I get that there isn't as much diversity and culture IG as out in the RL, but people are still jack-headed, ignorant idiots. In fact, ignorance is kind of one of those things people actively enforce and promote.

I've been playing for years, and ooc'ly, I still don't recognize some clan insignia. I'd like to think it's okay if my PC's don't, either. Same with the gem. I do get your point, though, I just think it's close to the line.
I'm just looking for a general consensus. Or Moe's opinion. Either one generally can be accepted as canon.

Armaddict

  • Posts: 5940
Re: The Gem
« Reply #41 on: November 06, 2016, 02:49:42 PM »
I agree that there would be a fair mix of people who are aware, and people who are unaware to a degree.  There's information mixing based on who your social circles are, and the VNPC population that the PC population rises out of can be pretty diverse and self-centered on their own struggle against the known.

I don't think hiding it would be unusual given how the gemmed are treated, but I think that it being hidden would make for a lot more fucked up reactions (having things kind of sprung on you like that can be weird, but settle into a nice internal conflict story) upon discovery.  There's a lot of influences on how things go, and I consider the documentation to be the 'base position' for -most- starting PC's, but then with IC experiences shaping them from thereon out, with obvious filtered lenses applied as necessary to the character.  I also think proud servants of the templarate would probably not hide it due to the company they keep (if it can be bent into an attempt to deceive in some fucked up way, the templarate/noble/upper crust crowd is not the people you want accusing you of such.  Better to just take the treatment of gemmers than have it insinuated you're trying to fool them).

I don't think it would be odd to play someone from outside of allanak who is less aware of things, though I always find the ones who have no stigma attached to magick altogether to be a little jarring.  Whether it be positive or negative, I think all cultures of Zalanthas have some idea of how they view magick, and as cabbage said, people with access to 'civilized, non-tribal' parts of the Known probably have at least heard of the gem, though it may be much different visually in their head.  I do not, however, think that it should be instantly recognizeable to everyone all the time the further away from Allanak you get.  I was involved in a tribal scene once where a gemmed was explaining their relationship to the gem with a small group of elves where they had their own magickers, and the idea of gemming them was a strange concept when the gem's purpose was described.  Fun things.
She wasn't doing a thing that I could see, except standing there leaning on the balcony railing, holding the universe together. --J.D. Salinger

Jihelu

  • Posts: 2580
Re: The Gem
« Reply #42 on: November 06, 2016, 05:42:27 PM »
Lets see.


People in Luir's, unless this is some ic info or something then just edit it but it seems like something you'd probably know, let gemmed/magickers run around if they know you are a magicker so they can watch your ass.
So the gem would work there.
So that checks off Luir's.

People up north religiously hate magick and are at war/were at war with the south.
I imagine that people in the Levy saw gemmed in fights, people who were throwing magick.
I imagine it would be common knowledge so you can avoid/kill them if you see them.
Where there goes the North.


Tribals:
Varies.

Redstorm:
I imagine it's pretty obvious since most of them hate Nak.

Cenyr:
Lel

Everything else:
Dunno.


I feel like explaining what the gem does, as a gemmed, to someone clueless would be an easy way to make friends, especially if they are tribal and accepting of gemmed.
"Oh yeah, it just means I have magick and that people in the city know I have magick so they wont be scared of me/leave me alone"
tribal: "Oh cool we have magick to lets be friends" and then they skip away.

I'm not really sure where I'm going with this but I feel like the Gem = More identifiable than noble house markings.
Shade, profits, and George Bush did 9/11

The Lonely Hunter

  • Posts: 770
Re: The Gem
« Reply #43 on: November 07, 2016, 08:57:25 AM »
"...they wont be scared of me/leave me alone"

I'm sorry but it is hard to tell - was this meant as sarcasm? If so, please ignore the rest of this post.

 I don't believe that having a gem would make a commoner less frightened of them. The gem is direct conformation that this person is a dangerous abomination that can cause:

-you to loose at gambling
-your neighbor's cousin disappear
-you to suffer from various physical ailments
-you to be swallowed up by the ground
-to be overly thirsty
-you to have a training accident

...and that is without even trying. Imagine if they didn't like you. Now your junk is falling off, a sandstorm is ripping the flesh from your bones, your home burns down, your family gets silt-lung, or you die some other horrible way. There is absolutely no reason to trust a magicker or not be afraid of them. They are not your buddies, they are evil and want to eat your entrails or steal your children. I heard the argument before that "if they sit at the bar with me for days on end I'll get less afraid of them because they proved that they aren't a threat". That is complete BS. If you are sitting at the bar with someone you -know- is a magicker...you're doing it wrong.

Of course, there may be exceptions. Just like there are IRL - perhaps you are the equivalent to that rare albino siamese twin with six fingers on each hand.

If you find a reason to trust or be nice to magickers please feel free to point it out in the documentation and correct me. Perhaps a current staff member could chime in on this thread as well.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2016, 09:00:37 AM by The Lonely Hunter »
"People survive by climbing over anyone who gets in their way, by cheating, stealing, killing, swindling, or otherwise taking advantage of others."
-Ginka

"Don't do this. I can't believe I have to write this post."
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Lizzie

  • Posts: 7490
Re: The Gem
« Reply #44 on: November 07, 2016, 09:11:43 AM »
Lonely Hunter, I disagree with you on the general principal of your post (not the specifics). This is an INTERACTIVE MULTIPLAYER game. It isn't a single-shooter. Showing up in a bar as a gemmed mage shouldn't be considered out of the ordinary. There are VNPC gemmed mages already in the bar, and VNPC non-mages relaxing, enjoying their drinks. If you feel so strongly that you should NEVER intentionally hang out in the same room as a gemmed mage, then maybe you should stop bringing your characters into ANY public places, except perhaps Red's, the Atrium, and the Arboretum. And even with Red's there are times when gemmed mages are tolerated there.

The Gaj has northerners, rinthis, half-elves. The scum of the planet hangs out at the Gaj on a regular basis. No reason to expect to NOT see a gemmed mage at any given moment. Your character knows the gemmed is an abomination, but your character ALSO knows that the gemmer knows he is under the Highlord's strict control and if he pulls any shenanigans he will pay for it with his life.

An uneasy truce, perhaps - is what you should expect at the very worst, in the Gaj or any other public place (except perhaps Red's, the Atrium, and the Arboretum). Begrudging acceptance of their existence is the most likely result of public interaction, with the very rare occurrence of actively "getting along."
Talia said: Notice to all: Do not mess with Lizzie's GDB. She will cut you.
Delirium said: Notice to all: do not mess with Lizzie's soap. She will cut you.

The Lonely Hunter

  • Posts: 770
Re: The Gem
« Reply #45 on: November 07, 2016, 09:18:23 AM »
An "INTERACTIVE MULTIPLAYER game" that happens to be a RPI where magickers are distrusted and hated. When I referenced the 'bar' I didn't mean the building itself, I assume there are some who visit the Gaj. I meant at the actual bar. If magickers vNPCs are in the Gaj I imagine they are sitting alone or with other gemmed (in pairs or trios, larger groups would likely make people too nervous) at some dark table in the back.
"People survive by climbing over anyone who gets in their way, by cheating, stealing, killing, swindling, or otherwise taking advantage of others."
-Ginka

"Don't do this. I can't believe I have to write this post."
-Rathustra

nauta

  • Posts: 2206
Re: The Gem
« Reply #46 on: November 07, 2016, 09:32:26 AM »
Not to take sides -- I'm not sure where the disagreement is here -- but just FYI, there is an echo in the Gaj that states that a gemmed figure sits at the bar, and when she does other patrons grumble and leave the bar for other tables.

I find it jarring to see gemmed and non-gemmed interacting without any display of fear or distrust.  As well, I find it very odd to see a gemmed get upset at someone for being afraid/distrusting/avoiding them.  (But I don't know who I agree with between LH and Lizzie.)
as IF you didn't just have them unconscious, naked, and helpless in the street 4 minutes ago

Riev

  • Posts: 4793
Re: The Gem
« Reply #47 on: November 07, 2016, 09:32:55 AM »
An "INTERACTIVE MULTIPLAYER game" that happens to be a RPI where magickers are distrusted and hated. When I referenced the 'bar' I didn't mean the building itself, I assume there are some who visit the Gaj. I meant at the actual bar. If magickers vNPCs are in the Gaj I imagine they are sitting alone or with other gemmed (in pairs or trios, larger groups would likely make people too nervous) at some dark table in the back.

And often times, when the PC attention shifts as it always does, AoD will come in and tell that gemmed to get off -their- bar stool, or some rough and tumble Bynner will berate them and threaten calling a Templar because that gemmed is trying to curse the food.

Its the "If you're sitting at a bar with a known gemmed you're doing it wrong" that is the incendiary comment. The Gaj is for everyone. If the gemmed is sitting at the bar, and you are too, you are well within your rights to ignore them, move your seat further away, decide you want to leave, decide you want to hit them, or anything.

But I think you'll get a lot of reaction on the "you're doing it wrong" portion. Most especially when considering that some of these gemmed are KNOWN to work for the Templarate or even the Highborn Nobility. Who are you to decide that House Oash, those noble few, are 'wrong' or 'disgusting' for using the gemmed the way they do?
Masks are the Armageddon equivalent of Ed Hardy shirts.

Jihelu

  • Posts: 2580
Re: The Gem
« Reply #48 on: November 07, 2016, 09:39:29 AM »
@ Hunter
I meant in the few scenarios in which you meet a tribal that
A: Doesn't know about the gem AND
B: Probably has a tribe that has magickers of their own.
Also probably
C: Doesn't hate Nak
Shade, profits, and George Bush did 9/11

nauta

  • Posts: 2206
Re: The Gem
« Reply #49 on: November 07, 2016, 09:56:10 AM »
@ Hunter
I meant in the few scenarios in which you meet a tribal that
A: Doesn't know about the gem AND
B: Probably has a tribe that has magickers of their own.
Also probably
C: Doesn't hate Nak

While it is possible to be part of a non-coded tribe (and less possible in the coded tribes) to not know what the gem is, at least in the coded tribes I've been in there are plenty of stories of nasty things that those that wear the gem have done, so this knowledge -- what the gem is, what it represents, and what it looks like -- would be part of the background.  That said, it's possible to play a character as part of a non-coded tribe, or even from the rinth, or from Morin's, who does not know much about what the gem is or how to recognize it.

My original question, however, was more about the -look- of the gem itself -- if, say, in a storm or a dimly lit bar, this would be something that 'stands out' on the gemmed (provided they have no tdesc otherwise masking it).  It sounds like the answer is that the gem is sort of noticeable (being all light-absorbing) but not in an in-your-face sort of way, so you could play it either way: maybe you didn't notice the gem that encounter, and maybe you did the next.

I also think that a tdesc masking a gem, providing you have the equipment to back it up, is 100% kosher.
as IF you didn't just have them unconscious, naked, and helpless in the street 4 minutes ago