Author Topic: Elves: The Thread  (Read 10811 times)

Synthesis

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Re: Elves: The Thread
« Reply #150 on: September 05, 2016, 11:31:26 AM »
'rinth-based c-elf tribes will never flourish beyond more than a flash in the pan, for a few reasons:

1.  The completely irrational berserker player response to theft of all sorts.
2.  C-elves aren't karma-restricted, which means noobs can get in and fuck everything up for everyone else.
3.  They don't have a natural non-aggro basis for interaction with the rest of the playerbase.
4.  It's far too easy for roundear bounty hunters to get deep into the eastside, murder elf PCs, then get away
5.  Crime code is brutal, and even veteran status can't prevent you from failing a dice roll every once in a while.
6.  Not being able to travel is painfully boring.
7.  City-elves are super weak when it comes to noob-status combat, and it takes a long, long time to get competitive with dwarves and strong humans.

The only time I had a successful member of the Jaxa Pah, I made it up to Voice...but it was primarily because I was playing a merchant very shortly after the mastercrafting stuff went in (no extended subguilds yet), so powerful PCs had a few decent reasons not to murder my PC: 

1. I was one of the few PCs in the game that could mastercraft Neat Stuff
2. Everyone knew OOCly that I was a merchant, so -I- certainly wasn't going to be PKing anybody or taking their stuff
3. I was trading with numerous other PCs probably to the tune of tens of thousands of 'sids per RL week, and nobody wanted to derail that gravy train

Even then...I spent very little time in the actual 'rinth.  The fact that my PC attained such a high rank was pretty much a complete stretch of the docs, to accommodate the in-game situation, because the PC was a no-tribe southsider starting out.  When I was in the 'rinth, I ran as fast as I could back-and-forth to clan-only safe spots.  The Jaxa Pah itself flourished for a little while, because even though I stored out of boredom, I had accumulated a MASSIVE stockpile of various useful things for the clan.

In order for a 'rinth-based c-elf tribe to flourish they need:
1. Karma or highly-vetted special app restriction
2. A reason for the rest of the game to interact with them that doesn't involve killing on sight
3. A real safe haven

Even if those were provided...the combination of starting out as a pathetic weakling, brutal crime-response, and static-location boredom will probably always be overwhelming, and those aren't things that are likely to be changed at all.
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RogueGunslinger

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Re: Elves: The Thread
« Reply #151 on: September 05, 2016, 11:57:19 AM »
Whew, that was close. Thanks Synth, totally cured me of my desire to make that elf.

Malken

  • Posts: 9114
Re: Elves: The Thread
« Reply #152 on: September 05, 2016, 12:40:44 PM »
I once played a pretty successful c-elf thief but that required me to pretty much not interact with the playerbase at all for like a RL month or two to practice my stealing skillz, and then I tried to interact as little as possible because I knew that the minute someone would spot me it'd be the end of my thief'ing career.

The funny thing was watching every new c-elves being branded thieves and harassed non-stop by the entire Allanaki populace because they couldn't figure out who the thief was so the natural response was that every single elf PCs spotted was probably it.

If you like being social and actual role-playing I certainly don't recommend playing a c-elf. If you play Arm for the lulz (like I've mostly been doing in the last 2 years), then c-elf pickpockets can be pretty entertaining (until you make a mistake and/or someone spots you). No amount of bribing anyone will save you.
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Armaddict

  • Posts: 6211
Re: Elves: The Thread
« Reply #153 on: September 05, 2016, 01:26:49 PM »
I'm still overwhelmingly curious when westside became not-elf only.

Several elves of mine were involved in the guild early on, and several leaders of the guild have also been elves.
She wasn't doing a thing that I could see, except standing there leaning on the balcony railing, holding the universe together. --J.D. Salinger

CodeMaster

  • Posts: 1130
Re: Elves: The Thread
« Reply #154 on: September 05, 2016, 02:26:28 PM »
Maybe someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought city elves were reasonably able to cover the distances between nearby settlements.  I know roads take less stamina than dunes and craters, and there are a few subguilds with direction sense... so it's probably possible?
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Reiloth

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Re: Elves: The Thread
« Reply #155 on: September 05, 2016, 02:32:29 PM »
I'm still overwhelmingly curious when westside became not-elf only.

Several elves of mine were involved in the guild early on, and several leaders of the guild have also been elves.

I dunno, I think it was a player mentality shift. I also remember when it was just 'The Labyrinth', and elves and humans were on both sides of the map. But I guess it was just an organic thing over time, and the Jaxa Pah certainly made it more solidified.
"You will have useful work: the destruction of evil men. What work could be more useful? This is Beyond; you will find that your work is never done -- So therefore you may never know a life of peace."

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Dresan

  • Posts: 1306
Re: Elves: The Thread
« Reply #156 on: September 05, 2016, 02:48:35 PM »
Whew, that was close. Thanks Synth, totally cured me of my desire to make that elf.

He sure makes me miss playing a merchant though.  

I do like the idea of the guild changing to allow elves to join the ranks by being changed taking a more middle ground neutral approach to the warring sides between east and west side.  While i know the staff have stated they had a c-elf tribe idea in mind, but I too am glad nothing has come out of it. It would be diluting player resources from other stable clans for what is sadly a niche race at the moment.

Additional C-elves only clan/tribes (outside player made ones) are not good for the game.
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Armaddict

  • Posts: 6211
Re: Elves: The Thread
« Reply #157 on: September 05, 2016, 02:56:58 PM »
Quote
Additional C-elves only clan/tribes (outside player made ones) are not good for the game.

I disagree in principle, but agree that it could be very easy to implement poorly.
She wasn't doing a thing that I could see, except standing there leaning on the balcony railing, holding the universe together. --J.D. Salinger

Patuk

  • Posts: 4163
Re: Elves: The Thread
« Reply #158 on: September 05, 2016, 04:07:19 PM »
Whew, that was close. Thanks Synth, totally cured me of my desire to make that elf.
diluting player resources from other stable clans

lol
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evilcabbage

  • Posts: 1968
Re: Elves: The Thread
« Reply #159 on: September 05, 2016, 04:45:27 PM »
how um...

how does having a c-elf tribe dilute player resources from house salarr or kadius or borsail or fale or oash...

if none of them allow c-elves?
I could give a shit about wholesome.

Case

  • Helper
  • Posts: 3034
Re: Elves: The Thread
« Reply #160 on: September 05, 2016, 05:37:22 PM »
I'm still overwhelmingly curious when westside became not-elf only.

Several elves of mine were involved in the guild early on, and several leaders of the guild have also been elves.

I dunno, I think it was a player mentality shift. I also remember when it was just 'The Labyrinth', and elves and humans were on both sides of the map. But I guess it was just an organic thing over time, and the Jaxa Pah certainly made it more solidified.
It never did, it's apocrypha.

Reiloth

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Re: Elves: The Thread
« Reply #161 on: September 05, 2016, 06:58:09 PM »
I'm still overwhelmingly curious when westside became not-elf only.

Several elves of mine were involved in the guild early on, and several leaders of the guild have also been elves.

I dunno, I think it was a player mentality shift. I also remember when it was just 'The Labyrinth', and elves and humans were on both sides of the map. But I guess it was just an organic thing over time, and the Jaxa Pah certainly made it more solidified.
It never did, it's apocrypha.

Yeah...It's sort of like a few people decided that's the way it was, and it caught on I guess. I remember it becoming more of a 'thing' around 2006-08, but before that it was sort of less territorial by race, more territorial by gang/affiliation.
"You will have useful work: the destruction of evil men. What work could be more useful? This is Beyond; you will find that your work is never done -- So therefore you may never know a life of peace."

~Jack Vance~

RogueGunslinger

  • Posts: 19133
Re: Elves: The Thread
« Reply #162 on: September 05, 2016, 07:19:01 PM »
Whew, that was close. Thanks Synth, totally cured me of my desire to make that elf.
While i know the staff have stated they had a c-elf tribe idea in mind, but I too am glad nothing has come out of it. It would be diluting player resources from other stable clans for what is sadly a niche race at the moment.

Additional C-elves only clan/tribes (outside player made ones) are not good for the game.

I disagree entirely.

Dar

  • Posts: 1520
Re: Elves: The Thread
« Reply #163 on: September 05, 2016, 10:33:44 PM »
Personally, I'd be ok not having run ability. Just remove agorophobia from their mindsets.


Jaxa pah is almost exactly how it was described earlier in the thread. You've got the killers and the dealers. Their problem is that they are elves. Therefore recruitment is broken and difficult.

Dunetrade55

  • Posts: 402
Re: Elves: The Thread
« Reply #164 on: September 06, 2016, 01:02:34 PM »
I think Synthesis is spot on. It can be quite difficult to get anywhere as a c-elf for all of those reasons. You sort of have to roll the dice and hope for a particular social climate in the area of your choosing. Barring that, you have to break your city elf's comfort zone and explore other potential spots.
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Molten Heart

  • Posts: 1956
Re: Elves: The Thread
« Reply #165 on: September 06, 2016, 02:16:01 PM »
.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2018, 10:55:30 AM by Molten Heart »

nauta

  • Posts: 2335
Re: Elves: The Thread
« Reply #166 on: September 06, 2016, 02:23:15 PM »
It'd be easier to be an elf if there were an elven district or borough where elves lived. The rinth could serve as this but, currently, the rinth is treated as a place only criminals go.

An elf tribe (NPCs) is a recent addition to Southside, and they have their own building / hangout, and while criminals do like to hang out in the rinth, nothing in the help file suggests that 'only criminals' live in the rinth -- at least on my reading of it.

Re: recruitment (mentioned in the previous post): A city elf clan wouldn't recruit any more than a desert elf clan does.  That's part of what makes a city elf tribe so interesting to RP and interact with -- whereas lonefoot city elves will (and must) cultivate friends where and however they can, the tribed city elf (like the tribed desert elf) doesn't care about friends, at least not to such an extent -- and this is true even if the 'tribe' is virtual.  If the tribe is coded, then recruitment would happen -- just as with desert elves -- from new PCs out of chargen.  (I'm not sure, but there are certain situations where a desert elf tribe might 'recruit' a PC in-game, but these are very rare, at least in the one clan I'm familiar with that does so.)
« Last Edit: September 06, 2016, 02:25:22 PM by nauta »
as IF you didn't just have them unconscious, naked, and helpless in the street 4 minutes ago

Molten Heart

  • Posts: 1956
Re: Elves: The Thread
« Reply #167 on: September 06, 2016, 02:36:40 PM »
.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2018, 10:55:21 AM by Molten Heart »

Molten Heart

  • Posts: 1956
Re: Elves: The Thread
« Reply #168 on: September 06, 2016, 02:43:31 PM »
.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2018, 10:55:14 AM by Molten Heart »

Molten Heart

  • Posts: 1956
Re: Elves: The Thread
« Reply #169 on: September 06, 2016, 02:51:08 PM »
.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2018, 10:55:06 AM by Molten Heart »

Dresan

  • Posts: 1306
Re: Elves: The Thread
« Reply #170 on: September 07, 2016, 11:28:48 PM »
how um...

how does having a c-elf tribe dilute player resources from house salarr or kadius or borsail or fale or oash...

if none of them allow c-elves?

But Byn and Kurac do allow elves, and humans and everything in between. These are actual clans, that offer different jobs and allow multiple roles to join,  not like noble houses which consist of a noble and an aide or two. Leaving aside that this c-elf clan would need people to specifically roll elves, want to join this c-elf only clan as opposed to another(again kurac and byn), we would have yet another competing clan for the same limtied playerbase. How fun is it to have one leader and one or two people if you are lucky in a clan? Its the same reason I think Salarr/Kadius should merge into one clan, they practically offer the same hunter/crafter roles in the city.  

I'm not really going to argue this point very hard, mostly because I think its moot. I have yet to see one implemented well  and its not all the staff's fault, its the playerbase that usually creates the conditions to make the staff close it down.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2016, 11:44:20 PM by Dresan »
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BrokenRomance

  • Posts: 176
Re: Elves: The Thread
« Reply #171 on: September 07, 2016, 11:46:17 PM »

But Byn and Kurac do allow elves, and humans and everything in between. These are actual clans, that offer different jobs and allow multiple roles to join,  not like noble houses which consist of a noble and an aide or two. Leaving aside that this c-elf clan would need people to specifically roll elves, want to join this c-elf only clan as opposed to another that allows a greater variety of roles already, we would have yet another competing clan for the same limtied playerbase. How fun is it to have one leader and one or two people if you are lucky in a clan? Its the same reason I think Salarr/Kadius should merge into one clan, they practically offer the same hunter/crafter roles in the city.  

I'm not really going to argue this point very hard, mostly because I think its moot. I have yet to see one implemented well  and its not all the staff's fault, its the playerbase that usually creates the conditions to make the staff close it down.

What if they did merge? There is now like ten players having to hope to find something else to become.

Honestly if you're going to advocate not making a celf tribe on the grounds of cutting down player spread so more positions get filled, and then talk about other groups should just get removed too, maybe you need to stop and think about the real player spread.  It would be totally detrimental.
All I see turns to brown, as the sun burns the ground
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Dar

  • Posts: 1520
Re: Elves: The Thread
« Reply #172 on: September 07, 2016, 11:50:54 PM »
Regarding the whole dilution of players.

Within the last 12 months I've played a relatively public role in Allanak, before that, I had a pretty long lived tribal, after the public role, I played a recluse, but present role in the rinth. After that ended, instead of choosing to recreate in an area that I've already been to recently, I've chosen to .... take a break for a month, so my experiences with the arena would wane a little bit.

My point is that if you remove too many options and areas, and clans, in order to bring the playerbase together, you're running the risk of players choosing not to play for awhile, instead of jumping into some area they've been in recently already.

BrokenRomance

  • Posts: 176
Re: Elves: The Thread
« Reply #173 on: September 07, 2016, 11:52:19 PM »
Regarding the whole dilution of players.

Within the last 12 months I've played a relatively public role in Allanak, before that, I had a pretty long lived tribal, after the public role, I played a recluse, but present role in the rinth. After that ended, instead of choosing to recreate in an area that I've already been to recently, I've chosen to .... take a break for a month, so my experiences with the arena would wane a little bit.

My point is that if you remove too many options and areas, and clans, in order to bring the playerbase together, you're running the risk of players choosing not to play for awhile, instead of jumping into some area they've been in recently already.

+1
All I see turns to brown, as the sun burns the ground
And my eyes fill with sand, as I scan this wasted land
Trying to find, trying to find where I've been.

Dresan

  • Posts: 1306
Re: Elves: The Thread
« Reply #174 on: September 08, 2016, 12:08:19 AM »
At the very least, c-elves should be made more viable/less fustrating in the clans they can currently join, before opening additional tribe/clans just for them.

Again I don't see people complaining half-elves don't have enough clans to join.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2016, 12:09:59 AM by Dresan »
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