Men and Women: Flirtacious Bothering

[Yam]

Way too many words Armaddict - I don't want to have to hunt to figure out what you're trying to say.

[Jingo]

I'd buy that argument, Jingo, if this thread began with the question "Why don't these PCs I flirt with put out?" The "regressive voices" only rise up when someone calls them on it. Maybe it feels good to combat, but I'd rather people filed complaints so actual disciplinary action could be taken.

As someone who plays sexually-vocal PCs I'd a thousand times prefer to be told straight up, either by a player or by staff, if I'm crossing someone's personal line. Not knowing I am but knowing that my behavior could just leaves me on eggshells.

It wasn't the op I was responding to. And I agree, sometimes boundaries are tricky and it's something I've even struggled with in the past. But if it was a small one-time problem then we probably wouldn't have a thread on it.

[BadSkeelz]

What's crossing the line, though? All this thread does, is as someone else said, is make people who aren't the source of your problem nervous about upsetting someone. Zalanthas is not your modern-day workplace. It's a brutal crapsack world where a shitty death, and being forgotten, are inevitable. You know what pisses me off? When someone kills my PC. Which, happens, frequently enough. I can't just OOC: Hey, could you disengage? Because I'm kind of enjoying my character.

I can submit a complaint, and I can tell you right now what the response would be. Zalanthas is a harsh post-apocalyptic world where you could be murdered for even a sip of water. If you can't get used to the idea, then perhaps this is not the game for you.

The motto is Murder, Corruption, Betrayal. Not Murder, Corruption, Betrayal, and Unwanted Sexual Situations. There's a difference between getting your PC killed and getting harassed. I'm happy to be accommodating on a high-emotion topic like this because at the end of the day I don't need sexual roleplay for my characters to stand on their own and be enjoyable.

I'm not going to be civil in this. In fact, I may be a little rude.


But it is completely hilarious that apparently, because I used myself as an example, this is now a thread about me whining about something.

BadSkeelz, you actually posted something in this thread when I first posted it that I agreed with, and I got it.

All I've done this entire thread is tell people what makes me feel the way I feel about something.

I am sorrrrrryyyyyyy that I have any sort of feelings whatsoever. I shall bow before this great knowledge that I shouldn't respond on a personal level to things that people have said whatsoever on this forum ever again. Because all that is happening is I'm being called a whiner for it.

I was genuinely, honestly, curious when I first made this thread about what was introduced in the opening post. And I received answers that helped me understand what I wanted to know, and then it moved a little bit into something where I said one little personal thing and I let myself  slip into talking about my own personal problems with this. I will never do that again.

Have a pleasant day, all of you.

BrokenRomance, I'm sorry if you feel I'm calling you out. I do not think your grievances are unjustified.

What I'm trying to do is to encourage you to stand up for yourself and not take the shit you've apparently had flung at you. Putting PCs in situations where sex is the only way out, or the "inevitable IC thing to do" is one of the scummiest things in this game. I honestly think bringing it to staff's attention and working to mitigate it will lead to a more enjoyable game for both yourself and the rest of us who dislike that kind of play.

[Lizzie]

I kinda get what Broken Romance is saying, and I agree with the overall sentiment; I experience similar, sometimes. It happens in clusters usually, and it doesn't matter if my PC is good looking or hideous, human or breed. And it's not even just about my PCs getting hit on. It's about the constant sexual banter that just doesn't seem to end, with some characters. It's like no matter what someone says, about anything at all, they have to turn it into a discussion about sex. And that discussion has to read like a really bad harlequin romance, or worse - a bad pulp fiction detective story.

It's not much different to me than back when I played GSIII and there were these players who always played their characters like 4-year-old cartoon characters. "Oooh let's go kill some dwarfies, yay!" >The tall burly muscular manly-man beams happily at you! >The tall burly muscular manly-man jumps around excitedly!

And you just want to tell them to stop. It's not cute, it's ridiculous, and it's a buzzkill.

The sexual stuff is like that, to me. It's not against the rules, it's not even all that offensive. It's just overdone, last Tuesday, stale coffee, and older than my mother's wrinkles.

[Dunetrade55]

I play female characters too, Broken Romance, I don't encounter this sort of shit frequently, and when I do, someone's getting their throat cut. A few jokes, barbs, heck, maybe even some pestering, fine, whatever, two can play at that game, I'm free to accept and reject as I see fit. If it ever starts to get on my PC's nerves, I'll make it clear that I'm not the one you want to fuck with. If the fucking with continues, someone's going to get the piss beaten out of them. If it still doesn't work, someone's going to bleed out.

In fact, I'd say it happens to my male PCs almost as frequently. Which is to say, not all that much, and from both genders. But then, I don't play with the fme desc or anything near typical. Not saying it SHOULD happen more frequently with the fme desc, but when you write up an fme desc you have to understand that it sets you outside the norm, makes you exceptional, and therefor more desirable to (some) other characters. It has nothing to do, most times, with being female. Some of my descs focus on being horribly grotesque, mutilated, and/or mutated. People are drawn to my RP and seek to stick around and see how my PC handles relationship issues and yes, it's not always a fade. When it's not a fade it gets a little tedious but eh, helps define the character I'm playing a little better.

Is it not documented that sex is one of the few forms of entertainment, aside from throat slitting, that exist in Zalanthas? Are the views toward it not outlined somewhere? I could swear I read it somewhere but I may be misremembering.

[Armaddict]

Way too many words Armaddict - I don't want to have to hunt to figure out what you're trying to say.

Forgive me for there being a lot to say about a very nuanced and complex topic.  Because oversimplifying it results in things being read the wrong way, which is why some people are even in this thread, apparently.

Basically, you suggested that we said there was no problem, when I made it very clear where my boundary was, and I find it a sensible boundary based on expectation of adult reactions to adult situations, aside from those situations that are pushed into an area of full on discomfort.

I've pushed that same thought over and over with different wording because it keeps being countered in a way that makes it sound as if I'm saying 'Tough luck, deal with it'.  I haven't said that at all.  The only thing similar that I've said that I keep trying to clarify is that there are situations where disgusting things are said, but that doesn't mean the player saying them is in violation of the 'fellow player' pact for enjoyment, and that distinction is an important one.  It seems that saying oversensitivity to it exists (without even attributing it to someone else - Broken Romance, I wasn't trying to cheapen your opinion, just using it as a springboard for my own) is in itself something that doesn't sit well with some, which is, perhaps, the source of why my presentation isn't coming across as well.

As far as having to hunt?  It's text.  If you read it from beginning to end, it has information in it.  When you try to find small tidbits to reply to without reading the whole, that may be another reason misunderstandings are popping up.

[SuchDragonWow]

I'd personally be thrilled if there was just nothing sexual about the game, and I think it'd actually be a lot more interesting if the needle dicks who can only focus on sex had to glom onto something original.  But that ain't the game.  I get what BR is saying, though.  It'd be awesome to have cool scenes without some kid turning into the wind and getting an erection, but again, that ain't the game.  To be fair, though, it's not horrendously off putting, at least from my male perspective, and there are many nice stories that come out of this game that aren't sexual in nature.  So hey, it's not all that bad.

[Raptor_Dan]

Jesus, what did I walk into.


Nevermind.

[Gilgamesh]

I'm not going to be civil in this. In fact, I may be a little rude.


But it is completely hilarious that apparently, because I used myself as an example, this is now a thread about me whining about something.

BadSkeelz, you actually posted something in this thread when I first posted it that I agreed with, and I got it.

All I've done this entire thread is tell people what makes me feel the way I feel about something.

I am sorrrrrryyyyyyy that I have any sort of feelings whatsoever. I shall bow before this great knowledge that I shouldn't respond on a personal level to things that people have said whatsoever on this forum ever again. Because all that is happening is I'm being called a whiner for it.

I was genuinely, honestly, curious when I first made this thread about what was introduced in the opening post. And I received answers that helped me understand what I wanted to know, and then it moved a little bit into something where I said one little personal thing and I let myself  slip into talking about my own personal problems with this. I will never do that again.

Have a pleasant day, all of you.

You take things too personally. No one is insulting you.

[SuchDragonWow]

Welcome to the GDB, raptor Dan!!  

[Dar]

Out of curiosity. Those who play female characters and are experiencing all that sexual banter. How often do you experience this banter from male dwarves?

[flurry]

Every time this topic comes up (which is often), the complaints about the harassing behavior are dismissed as overreactions. Literally every time for well over a decade.

When I had another player OOCly harassing me by private message, I did complain and the staff did take action. But when it's IC behavior that (as people are so quick to point out) is technically within the rules, suggestions to report it kind of miss the point.

[MeTekillot]

There is no c in flirtatious.

[Case]

There is no c in flirtatious.

but there is an i in you

[Talia]

You guys, I have had my staff avatar that the dude player couldn't even see hit on. (Giant spiders are super hot, tho.)

That statement is mostly for comic relief, though it's 100% true.

We get a lot of argument over topics like this. I appreciate Brokenromance for bringing it up. I do think it's a rather prevalent problem for female players, AND the discussion is beneficial because we can all use a good look at our own behavior sometimes. We should consider these things, and see if they apply to us.

No naming names or pointing fingers, but I don't think there's anyone on either side of the argument here who really has a problem with in-game behavior that crosses any lines. Overall we've got a pretty mature and respectful playerbase. The people who are causing issues aren't posting in this thread, is what I'm saying, after looking over the posts again.

[Dunetrade55]

All I have to say is some of my more epic plots STARTED with someone crossing the line with me. I wouldn't trade that for any sort of feel-good policy in the world. I understand it may be upsetting because of RL events, or maybe you're just not the slightest bit interested in that side of your character's life, if you're not OOCly interested, or even just curious what your PC will be doing, you can fade. If the advances are unwelcome? Fuck 'em up, get your murder, corruption and betrayal on, perfect excuse. This polarization that PCs having relations is all about sex, though, is a fallacy.

One PC, who'd murdered my previous PC, pretty much, straight out of chargen, drug my next PC off, didn't say a word, just grabbed him, shoved coins into his hand, and made him his bitch, and it was an excellent way to get slam-dunked right into the character, and acquire contacts and resources. Think there were a couple times we didn't fade, other than that? Was just something our PCs did. Now, if I saw this scene, right there, and said, no, this isn't appropriate, there's a very strong chance nothing down the road would have gone as it did. Don't assume that just because the first thing you're propositioned for is sex,that that's all their is to the other character.

[BrokenRomance]

All I have to say is some of my more epic plots STARTED with someone crossing the line with me. I wouldn't trade that for any sort of feel-good policy in the world. I understand it may be upsetting because of RL events, or maybe you're just not the slightest bit interested in that side of your character's life, if you're not OOCly interested, or even just curious what your PC will be doing, you can fade. If the advances are unwelcome? Fuck 'em up, get your murder, corruption and betrayal on, perfect excuse. This polarization that PCs having relations is all about sex, though, is a fallacy.

One PC, who'd murdered my previous PC, pretty much, straight out of chargen, drug my next PC off, didn't say a word, just grabbed him, shoved coins into his hand, and made him his bitch, and it was an excellent way to get slam-dunked right into the character, and acquire contacts and resources. Think there were a couple times we didn't fade, other than that? Was just something our PCs did. Now, if I saw this scene, right there, and said, no, this isn't appropriate, there's a very strong chance nothing down the road would have gone as it did. Don't assume that just because the first thing you're propositioned for is sex,that that's all their is to the other character.

That isn't what anyone is saying here. Nobody is saying that sex is all these characters have to them. It might feel like that to myself and perhaps others at times though, and that is what is being discussed here.

I'd love to have seen the actual depth of some of the PCs I have begun to avoid because they just wanted to boink me, but I'm not going to put my character in a situation my character doesn't want just for it. You make the mistake of thinking that this is about the fact that we aren't OOCly like that, but riddle me this.

I have had a character state quiet strongly that she is attracted to women. I have had her publicly flirt with women. I have gone to great lengths to have their be no doubt that she was attracted to women. What am I supposed to do? Bend over and let these men that won't take no do as they please because that is their character? Am I not allowed to ask them to stop ICly? Ask them OOCly when it has come to a point I no longer feel comfortable with logging on that character? I don't care in the least if I can just fade. That. Is. Not. My. Character.

[Dunetrade55]

Broken, I've had a character that seduced a woman who hated men, despised them utterly. It led to a silly, though ill-fated romp, that was a character defining moment that resonated for quite some time with my PC. Had my male PC not persisted, this would have never taken place. It wasn't because she was a woman, but because she had sids and my PC was looking to get them, and she was fun to RP with, so I had to carve out a niche in the market. In the end, it was never about the sex, at all. Well, maybe a smidge, but it was MORE about the story, the intimacy was simply PART of that story.

I had to cross that line, though. And not in a skeezy way, but just the right way. My character's survival depended on it. I don't think I ever faded with her, but I would have been totally willing to do so if asked, never was though.

[Dunetrade55]

That said, my male PCs usually leave women PCs alone (and male PCs, for that matter, and most of my female PCs do the same) if they're vocal about their preferences, there's been a few exceptions but eh, it all made for a better story in the end. I think there's a strong difference between don't do that, and, do NOT do that. It's not like I had to flex or strut about to do it, would have been counter-productive that way. My only point, and one you likely already understand by now, don't lump all seeming horn-dogs into one group. Some of them are just staying IC, some are just skeezbags looking for text-sex. I prefer to think most of those who can handle Zalanthas are the former.

EDIT: Then there's my breeds that try to hit on people, then run somewhere quiet to cry about how unwanted they are.

[Majikal]

Pretty much anytime mudsex/rape/sexual harassment comes up in a thread I just shake my head. I've not seen this taken to extremes, I play many females, I also play sexually active female pc's (remember that shit next time you wanna mudsex creepers). I've never been the victim of anything silly that made me feel jarred out of my immersions. However, I'm pretty thick-skinned when it comes to conflict in the game and it's many shapes and sizes. I'll hack you in the throat with a bone sword... but I think I said that earlier.

If you have an mdesc that reads like a slutty romance novel and you have an sdesc that screams f-me, whelp, expect players that do that sort of thing to gravitate towards you. While not of the popular opinion, sadly, I wish mudsex was fade-only, If only because week-old lovers spawning jealously plots and committing suicide over dumb shit makes me wanna dropkick my computer. I also know that if mudsex was fade-only in Armageddon, we'd lose half of our playerbase.

[Dunetrade55]

I think I made ONE revenge character, who ended up wanting to settle down with an elf and have nothing to do with twinking their skills. I was just like, ICly, eh, screw revenge.

EDIT: I was probably wanting to murder Armaddict but then I was like, this is lame, got better things to do.

[Jihelu]

Pretty much anytime mudsex/rape/sexual harassment comes up in a thread I just shake my head. I've not seen this taken to extremes, I play many females, I also play sexually active female pc's (remember that shit next time you wanna mudsex creepers). I've never been the victim of anything silly that made me feel jarred out of my immersions. However, I'm pretty thick-skinned when it comes to conflict in the game and it's many shapes and sizes. I'll hack you in the throat with a bone sword... but I think I said that earlier.

If you have an mdesc that reads like a slutty romance novel and you have an sdesc that screams f-me, whelp, expect players that do that sort of thing to gravitate towards you. While not of the popular opinion, sadly, I wish mudsex was fade-only, If only because week-old lovers spawning jealously plots and committing suicide over dumb shit makes me wanna dropkick my computer. I also know that if mudsex was fade-only in Armageddon, we'd lose half of our playerbase.

I know Majikal.
Thats why I mudsex so much.
IN HOPES IT IS YOU

[Majikal]

Pretty much anytime mudsex/rape/sexual harassment comes up in a thread I just shake my head. I've not seen this taken to extremes, I play many females, I also play sexually active female pc's (remember that shit next time you wanna mudsex creepers). I've never been the victim of anything silly that made me feel jarred out of my immersions. However, I'm pretty thick-skinned when it comes to conflict in the game and it's many shapes and sizes. I'll hack you in the throat with a bone sword... but I think I said that earlier.

If you have an mdesc that reads like a slutty romance novel and you have an sdesc that screams f-me, whelp, expect players that do that sort of thing to gravitate towards you. While not of the popular opinion, sadly, I wish mudsex was fade-only, If only because week-old lovers spawning jealously plots and committing suicide over dumb shit makes me wanna dropkick my computer. I also know that if mudsex was fade-only in Armageddon, we'd lose half of our playerbase.

I know Majikal.
Thats why I mudsex so much.
IN HOPES IT IS YOU

Fun fact. It's ALWAYS me. 

[Reiloth]

You guys, I have had my staff avatar that the dude player couldn't even see hit on. (Giant spiders are super hot, tho.)

That statement is mostly for comic relief, though it's 100% true.

We get a lot of argument over topics like this. I appreciate Brokenromance for bringing it up. I do think it's a rather prevalent problem for female players, AND the discussion is beneficial because we can all use a good look at our own behavior sometimes. We should consider these things, and see if they apply to us.

No naming names or pointing fingers, but I don't think there's anyone on either side of the argument here who really has a problem with in-game behavior that crosses any lines. Overall we've got a pretty mature and respectful playerbase. The people who are causing issues aren't posting in this thread, is what I'm saying, after looking over the posts again.

Posting to be in thread.

[Dunetrade55]

Pretty much anytime mudsex/rape/sexual harassment comes up in a thread I just shake my head. I've not seen this taken to extremes, I play many females, I also play sexually active female pc's (remember that shit next time you wanna mudsex creepers). I've never been the victim of anything silly that made me feel jarred out of my immersions. However, I'm pretty thick-skinned when it comes to conflict in the game and it's many shapes and sizes. I'll hack you in the throat with a bone sword... but I think I said that earlier.

If you have an mdesc that reads like a slutty romance novel and you have an sdesc that screams f-me, whelp, expect players that do that sort of thing to gravitate towards you. While not of the popular opinion, sadly, I wish mudsex was fade-only, If only because week-old lovers spawning jealously plots and committing suicide over dumb shit makes me wanna dropkick my computer. I also know that if mudsex was fade-only in Armageddon, we'd lose half of our playerbase.

I know Majikal.
Thats why I mudsex so much.
IN HOPES IT IS YOU

Fun fact. It's ALWAYS me.  

HAWT!

EDIT: It's usually me though, thanks for inspiring Jihelu to mudsex indiscriminately.