Men and Women: Flirtacious Bothering

[deathkamon]

The highest trend I've seen in Armageddon so far is that yeah, male PCs/players definitely try to hit on the opposite sex a lot, and at times I've seen/taken it to really bad levels. Nevertheless, I have no need to get off to sex text. Almost, if not all of my characters have been male, and I can say that I didn't try to make every single one buy a whore for the night or get laid with the busty, thickly laid woman every time I log on. What I see by what everyone's said so far in this thread is that in Armageddon, lots of the players (the majority being males like myself) actually do get off to this, and because of that, it just makes the Arm community look like a bunch of fat snobs with nothing to do but to get off to white text on a black screen.

[nauta]

... a bunch of fat snobs with nothing to do but [to] get off to white text on a black screen.

I'm not fat.

[Dunetrade55]

I must confess to furiously masturbating in the midst of RPTs. This likely explains why most of my PCs are short lived, but I can't resist that white on black text.

[boxfullofsnakes]

If you have an mdesc that reads like a slutty romance novel and you have an sdesc that screams f-me, whelp, expect players that do that sort of thing to gravitate towards you.

My first character ever was female, and was described in a very masculine way because setting. She was hit on so often that it still became annoying. One guy even ran up to her when she was wounded, and then asked if she wanted to be his fuck-buddy. The timing of that question made me suspicious that he'd chosen her because of that. Thankfully he didn't do anything when she said no. (And I didn't know about the no-rape rule at the time, so I had no idea he wasn't allowed to press the matter if it had gone in that direction.)

It doesn't happen just to attractive characters.

[RogueGunslinger]

I once made a stunning female character. At least, I thought she was, she didn't have those f-me words, like busty or curved or anything like that, but definitely good looking. I was flirted with enough to annoy me... enough in this case was 2-3 times over about 2 IC years. That's all it took, a couple separate characters with advances in the vein of:

"Hey babe want to see my big dick?" "Are you sure? I'm a real strong lover." "Fine, I would definitely rock your known world, but whatever, bitch."

So, I was annoyed. It was very satisfying seeing those characters on the corpse pile. It sucks, but I still wouldn't make a rule saying that cheesy, stupid, lewd, persistent advances weren't allowed. I just kind of pity the people who think that might work, or that seek gratification from the game that way. It's, frankly, pathetic and reminds me off those sex chat-rooms that were popular when I was 12-13.

I don't really know what my point is. Sometimes people can do things that annoy me, but I don't think there should be a rule against it. Instead, we as a player-base, should murder the fuck out of those people..

[Lizzie]

One time in Tuluk (nuff said but I'll continue anyway)..

I created a character who had a virtual history, a virtual mom, brother, boyfriend. Living, but "behind the scenes." She had a virtual home she went to, virtual floors to clean, virtual life that happened when I was logged out of the game.

I had people insist that they needed to meet her boyfriend. They didn't ask to meet her mom, or her sibling, only her boyfriend. They were challenging the boyfriend's existence. Since he was never in the room with her when they showed up, they didn't believe she had one. I couldn't produce him, obviously, because he was virtual. But I created him *specifically* so that she had a built-in excuse to not be interested in romance. She already had romance, and her romance was fulfilling.

It didn't stop people from challenging her on it though, and THAT bugged the shit out of me.

When I play characters who are disinterested in sex, the usual response is that my character is either lying, or the other PC will take it as a personal goal to change my PC's mind.

When I play characters interested in the same sex, the usual response from males is that they will make it a goal to change my PC's mind.
When I play characters interested in the opposite sex, the usual response from females is that they will make it a goal to change my PC's mind.

Do you notice a pattern here?

There really needs to be some kind of "enough, change the subject please this is creepy on an OOC level" code-phrase or something, so that the players know that they're pushing a little too hard in that direction. There are plenty of other players you can play that kind of RP game with, who would be happy willing participants.

[Desertman]

I actually got so sick of constantly having to deal with every guy I met hitting on my characters instead of trying to do anything else with them that I tried to make a boy-like girl. It didn't work.

I want to logon and have a guy treat my female character like he respects her, maybe teach her to hunt without talking about how her hips look in that specific crouch or something.

Maybe I've just had bad luck, but I get fed up with it. I've got where I actively avoid roleplay which makes me disgusted with myself because of it.

This probably isn't going to change until men stop finding women attractive.

If you can figure out how to change that, then you will fix your problem.

Until then, you are just dealing with reality.

There's the thing. This isn't reality. This is Zalanthas, a world populated by giant bugs, elfs, and bald dwarves and then a few things from the real world.

I come here to escape reality, I don't want to logon and feel like all I did was put on some Zalanthas Goggles.

In Zalanthas men also find women attractive.

Again, the only way this is going to change is if that stops happening.

Some things are a reality both IRL, and in game.

It's like how humans in game breathe air, and in the real world, they also breathe air.

When you figure out how to change something like that, you will have fixed your problem.

Until then, that's the reality you are in both in the game and in real life..

[Yam]

 

[LucildaHunta]

All I really want to say is, I understand where BR is coming from. I really wish this thing wasn't so polarizing, because it's more complex than that. It's not really a thing where it happens all the time or it's as simple as report it or kill the offending character. It's right there in the title, flirtacious bothering. It just can be a nuisance sometimes.

Think of it this way, how would you feel if some random guy said certain sexual things to your mother or sister? Now extend that to Zalanthas where some random guy can invade your mother or sister's mind with certain sexual things. Uncomfortable yet? I understand that yes, you're playing a creep or a lech, that's fine. But really, one or two times is all you really need to get that across. More than that and it starts to become a thing that feels a little uncomfortable on an ooc level.

I don't think anybody is saying don't do it if it's a part of your character. Just have enough empathy for the person on the other side of the screen to do it sparingly.

[flurry]

In Zalanthas men also find women attractive.

Again, the only way this is going to change is if that stops happening.

Attraction and harassment aren't the same thing. It is possible to roleplay attraction without being creepy about it.

[Yam]

No it isn't they are both like breathing.

[Desertman]

I played a male character (more than one actually that had this happen, but this one specifically more than most) who had a lot of women hit on him. A lot.

I had multiple House family women try and bed this commoner.

I had a noble women suggest it might be a thing she was looking for with him.

The number of common women I had try and bed this character I can't even remember them all.

In more than one instance....they tried for RL months at a time.

He couldn't have business conversations with them, and he was in a position where he basically had to, regularly, without them suggesting he should finally give in and give them the dick.

He also had several female employees....probably more often than not actually....try to bed him. (And he had easily dozens in his lifetime.)

I just never gave them the dick. Not once. (With the exception of one, a single time, as part of a business deal, and of course it was a fade scene.)


Some of them were very persistent.

I will say I found it a bit annoying. The character I was playing was very much into fucking women. In fact, he was a horndog. But, I kept that part of him virtual and came up with IC excuses for why that part of him was always more or less kept virtual. It didn't stop women from throwing repeated advances at him, but, it is what it is.

I know the number of female PC's I had to turn down was AT LEAST in the triple digits, several of them more than once over the life of that character.

It's not like I'm arguing from the position of the guy who wants to creep on your text-vaginas. I don't care about them. I'm not going to come creep on them anytime soon.


My point is this:

This is a video game. It's a video game where for a very long time rape roleplay was allowed with consent. It wasn't until just in recent history that went away. Even then, it did NOT go away because of a question of morality or "feelings". It went away because the playerbase stopped handling it responsibly and it became too much of a workload for staff. It was a staff workload issue. Nothing else. That was clearly stated. That's the game you are playing.

Staff will absolutely step in to fix a situation to the best of their ability if you somehow become OOC'ly threatened by another player's intentions in the game that go beyond just IC, but so long as you are just being IC'ly threatened (and aren't harmed behind your keyboard), and it's not specifically RAPE (not harassment, RAPE), then you just have to toughen up a bit and realize what game you volunteered to play.

By all means, submit requests. Do what you feel you need to do. But understand the game that you are playing and where it comes from.


(One day I will post the report I sent to staff where I basically said, "Holy shit can the vagina stop trying to eat me.", more or less. It was a pretty good one.)

[Yam]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DW--7ZmXrXo

[Desertman]

No it isn't they are both like breathing.

That's not what is being said, and you know that. That's the only response this bait is going to get.

[Yam]

Sorry I just find this awkward and try to combat it with humor.

[Desertman]

Sorry I just find this awkward and try to combat it with humor.

No worries. I'm trying my best to explain "That I don't want the game to get softer.", without looking like some weirdo creepy rapist wanna-be, which as you can see, is awkward as shit.

That's my only goal and my only point really. It has little to do with sexual harassment.

[Dunetrade55]

Yeah, I can see how those examples could get quite annoying. Possibly the most annoying thing for me was playing a rinthi c-elf pursued by the Arm, gemmers, and just about EVERYONE who should be looking the other way because getting caught would be a death sentence... honestly I was too busy laughing at the sillyness of it all and finding creative ways to say "Um, not just no, but HELL no." to get pissed off. You send the tall, muscular man a psionic message "Put down the spice pipe, Amos, or at least give up on the agross, because there's NO way that's happening."

Generally, those problems seem to sort themselves, not always, but seems to be the case the majority of the time. In the meantime, sorry it bothers you, but some players will do and say things of better quality than others. This goes not just for being propositioned, but anything really. Can't think of any non-sexual annoyances I've seen to mention without needlessly calling a player or three out who've likely improved and stepped up their game, or moved on, or vaguebooking more recent characters, which isn't very fair or considerate to those players. Some players who routinely get on people's nerves have, once I've included them in on what I'm doing, have turned out to make for surprisingly interesting story elements. It's not simple enough for me to look at one act, or even a set of actions, and determine if I should condemn them just because there's something off-putting about it.

[Beethoven]

I think a lot of us are talking past each other. I am totally cool with some IC sexual bothering. It's just when it starts to turn into your character and your RP being used as someone's OOC sex toy and there's not much you can realistically do about it, that's when it's iffy for me. Not so iffy that I think there should be a hard and fast rule about it, necessarily. Just iffy enough that it's worth having a dialogue about.

[Yam]

I don't think anyone is advocating for a softer game world here. Hell I advocate murdering anyone who annoys you in character. I think Beethoven put it pretty well. Paraphrasing, there's a difference between being ICly forward and being OOCly creepy.

I'm a female. As I said before, I play both sexes.

There are PCs who hit on my characters. That's fine. I do not need to be coddled and protected from my characters being flirted with, even aggressively.

Then there are players who seem to play the game only to get off, and they have put my characters in RP situations where they cannot realistically escape from being sexualized and used for that player's gratification. That's when I feel sexually harassed. When I dread logging in because I know I'm going to get sucked into somebody's sexual banter and games and I do not feel comfortable with it but ICly I feel it is not realistic to do anything about it, that's where the line is for me.

[Desertman]

I don't think anyone is advocating for a softer game world here. Hell I advocate murdering anyone who annoys you in character. I think Beethoven put it pretty well. Paraphrasing, there's a difference between being ICly forward and being OOCly creepy.

I'm a female. As I said before, I play both sexes.

There are PCs who hit on my characters. That's fine. I do not need to be coddled and protected from my characters being flirted with, even aggressively.

Then there are players who seem to play the game only to get off, and they have put my characters in RP situations where they cannot realistically escape from being sexualized and used for that player's gratification. That's when I feel sexually harassed. When I dread logging in because I know I'm going to get sucked into somebody's sexual banter and games and I do not feel comfortable with it but ICly I feel it is not realistic to do anything about it, that's where the line is for me.

I'm not sure what to tell this player other than they aren't being raped, and if they are, they should report it so whoever is doing it can get banned.

If the other player who is making them uncomfortable isn't breaking any rules, they aren't breaking any rules. I don't care if it's sexual harassment, murder, or just being annoying....no rules have been broken.

That's the game you volunteered to play.

Submit a request, maybe staff will champion your personal cause, and maybe they won't, but who you are complaining about isn't as of now the issue, because they haven't broken a single rule.

And my point is that I don't want further rules implemented going down the rabbit hole of, "We need to ensure people who need a softer environment get a softer environment.".

[Beethoven]

I did actually murder the PC who was doing this to me. I still wonder if it was justified ICly. Certainly it felt OOCly good and it made the game worth playing again.

[Desertman]

I did actually murder the PC who was doing this to me. I still wonder if it was justified ICly. Certainly it felt OOCly good and it made the game worth playing again.

If IC'ly your character didn't like it.....or your character liked their boots.....or your character just woke up feeling in a bad mood....then yes....stab away with gusto. 

[Desertman]

In Zalanthas men also find women attractive.

Again, the only way this is going to change is if that stops happening.

Attraction and harassment aren't the same thing. It is possible to roleplay attraction without being creepy about it.

I don't disagree. I'm not sure if you are trying to disagree with me....because if you are....you are disagreeing with something I never said....or if you are just making a statement of your own.

Either way, I absolutely agree with you?   

[Beethoven]

I don't think there should be a rule. I just think it's something that could be talked about with certain players. I know I've played a lecherous cad before that constantly hit on people, male or female, whatever. (I think it kind of gained me a reputation of being mudsex-obsessed, which I'm really not.) I don't think I did anything wrong, although I'm sure I annoyed some people. So that's not what I'm talking about.

I believe it's worth discussing because there are some players out there who do bridge that OOC line and make players feel harassed. I don't think it's against the rules and I don't think a rule could be made that effectively separates the people just being IC and the people being OOC creepers. In my opinion those players should listen and make an effort to be respectful to other players.

[Nergal]

Flirting to the extent that it acquires sexual overtones could fall under the consent rule. Whether it does or not will depend on individual situations and how "far" it goes. Most likely it usually won't except in the most extreme cases. Clearly one can see how an overarching judgment on this phenomenon would get muddled as every situation is different. In the future, to those who feel unsure or uncomfortable, submit a player complaint and we'll look into it on a case-by-case basis. Describing recent IC situations here does no one any good.

In general, try to be cognizant of other players. Yes, the rules let PCs treat each other however they want. However it does not let players treat each other however they want. If what your PC is doing to another PC is meant to affect that PC's player, then it's against the spirit of the game. We have established this through the consent rule, through prohibiting revenge PCs, banning the use of the OOC command for frivolous reasons, and other things. Staff make the final decision on whether behavior was directed toward the PC or the player.