Author Topic: And with it, David slew the giant.  (Read 8268 times)

RogueGunslinger

  • Posts: 18725
Re: And with it, David slew the giant.
« Reply #25 on: April 17, 2016, 03:14:11 PM »
I don't think there's a problem with slingshots existing in the game. You can make a slingshot with stone-age materials. It's going to suck, just like slingshots in the game suck.

The slingshots in game don't suck, imo. A slingshot made from stone-age materials? Nope, not buying it. There's no way it would work better than just throwing a rock. And I can't begin to imagine what you'd use for the elastic part. Such an invention would never even be considered when slings, bows, and crossbows exist.

I also hate how slings use the archery skill. It should be based on the throw skill, or a skill of its own.

hyzhenhok

  • Posts: 1634
Re: And with it, David slew the giant.
« Reply #26 on: April 17, 2016, 04:24:10 PM »
I don't think there's a problem with slingshots existing in the game. You can make a slingshot with stone-age materials. It's going to suck, just like slingshots in the game suck.

The slingshots in game don't suck, imo. A slingshot made from stone-age materials? Nope, not buying it. There's no way it would work better than just throwing a rock. And I can't begin to imagine what you'd use for the elastic part. Such an invention would never even be considered when slings, bows, and crossbows exist.

I also hate how slings use the archery skill. It should be based on the throw skill, or a skill of its own.

There's a difference between "not better than throwing or using a bow/sling/crossbow" and "literally impossible."

RogueGunslinger

  • Posts: 18725
Re: And with it, David slew the giant.
« Reply #27 on: April 17, 2016, 05:40:38 PM »
You haven't even provided an example of this hypothetical stone-age rock slinging device you're calling a slingshot. So I'm finding it hard to argue with your idea that something I can't imagine can sling a rock well enough to be defined as a slingshot. You seem to be describing some sort of device that has no useful function, which is why I brought up that bow/sling/crossbow comparison and why such a thing would never even be thought of.

hyzhenhok

  • Posts: 1634
Re: And with it, David slew the giant.
« Reply #28 on: April 17, 2016, 07:03:16 PM »
You haven't even provided an example of this hypothetical stone-age rock slinging device you're calling a slingshot. So I'm finding it hard to argue with your idea that something I can't imagine can sling a rock well enough to be defined as a slingshot. You seem to be describing some sort of device that has no useful function, which is why I brought up that bow/sling/crossbow comparison and why such a thing would never even be thought of.


I don't see why we should assume ancient/Zalanthan people would share your failure of imagination.

There are plenty of items in the game, weapons and armor especially, that are realistically "devices that serve no useful function." A sword that is a solid bar of obsidian, for example. I don't see why we need a heightened standard of realism to apply to slingshots.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2016, 07:04:52 PM by hyzhenhok »

manipura

  • Posts: 1448
Re: And with it, David slew the giant.
« Reply #29 on: April 17, 2016, 07:19:58 PM »
You haven't even provided an example of this hypothetical stone-age rock slinging device you're calling a slingshot. So I'm finding it hard to argue with your idea that something I can't imagine can sling a rock well enough to be defined as a slingshot. You seem to be describing some sort of device that has no useful function, which is why I brought up that bow/sling/crossbow comparison and why such a thing would never even be thought of.


I don't see why we should assume ancient/Zalanthan people would share your failure of imagination.

There are plenty of items in the game, weapons and armor especially, that are realistically "devices that serve no useful function." A sword that is a solid bar of obsidian, for example. I don't see why we need a heightened standard of realism to apply to slingshots.

I don't think it's a failure of imagination?  I think it's more that you specifically said a slingshot can be made with stone-age materials...and since slingshots rely on elastic materials...which aren't stone-age...RGS was wondering just how this hypothetical slingshot of yours was going to exist and function, evenly poorly.

Armaddict

  • Posts: 5786
Re: And with it, David slew the giant.
« Reply #30 on: April 17, 2016, 08:18:39 PM »
You could invent a hand-catapult!  That doesn't require elastic material, just a flexible, large stick to get the same potential energy as an elastic substance!

But yeah.  Nothing elastic enough on Zalanthas that I've seen to make a slingshot.  You'd be able to pull sinew back maybe a couple inches, if you're lucky...and when you release the pocket, the rock will hurt your foot. (It won't be propelled anywhere.)
She wasn't doing a thing that I could see, except standing there leaning on the balcony railing, holding the universe together. --J.D. Salinger

hyzhenhok

  • Posts: 1634
Re: And with it, David slew the giant.
« Reply #31 on: April 17, 2016, 08:25:40 PM »
Sorry, I forgot I was posting on DoItYourselfStoneAgeWarrior.com where you need pictures of working prototypes and patent documentation. For some reason I thought this was a discussion board about a fantasy video game and surely I would not need to preface every single post with a caveat that I am in fact discussing the game, and not trying to make a general proposition about the real world.

If you guys are volunteering to scrub the game of every obsidian-bar sword and other unrealistic weapon, sure, let's get rid of the sinew and vine slingshots. But a vine or sinew that is elastic enough to work in a slingshot is not any different from a bar of obsidian strong and flexible enough to serve as the base material for a sword.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2016, 08:28:05 PM by hyzhenhok »

Armaddict

  • Posts: 5786
Re: And with it, David slew the giant.
« Reply #32 on: April 17, 2016, 08:33:21 PM »
Sorry, I forgot I was posting on DoItYourselfStoneAgeWarrior.com where you need pictures of working prototypes and patent documentation. For some reason I thought this was a discussion board about a fantasy video game and surely I would not need to preface every single post with a caveat that I am in fact discussing the game, and not trying to make a general proposition about the real world.

If you guys are volunteering to scrub the game of every obsidian-bar sword and other unrealistic weapon, sure, let's get rid of the sinew and vine slingshots. But a vine or sinew that is elastic enough to work in a slingshot is not any different from a bar of obsidian strong and flexible enough to serve as the base material for a sword.

I think you're taking it a little personally that people are saying slings are much more viable than slingshots and that we should change the sdescs to accurately portray the difference between the two.

Does the removal of the one or two actual slingshots actually upset you so much that you're saying if we did it, we would have to remove all the obsidian swords, too?
She wasn't doing a thing that I could see, except standing there leaning on the balcony railing, holding the universe together. --J.D. Salinger

hyzhenhok

  • Posts: 1634
Re: And with it, David slew the giant.
« Reply #33 on: April 17, 2016, 10:28:50 PM »
Sorry, I forgot I was posting on DoItYourselfStoneAgeWarrior.com where you need pictures of working prototypes and patent documentation. For some reason I thought this was a discussion board about a fantasy video game and surely I would not need to preface every single post with a caveat that I am in fact discussing the game, and not trying to make a general proposition about the real world.

If you guys are volunteering to scrub the game of every obsidian-bar sword and other unrealistic weapon, sure, let's get rid of the sinew and vine slingshots. But a vine or sinew that is elastic enough to work in a slingshot is not any different from a bar of obsidian strong and flexible enough to serve as the base material for a sword.

I think you're taking it a little personally that people are saying slings are much more viable than slingshots and that we should change the sdescs to accurately portray the difference between the two.

Does the removal of the one or two actual slingshots actually upset you so much that you're saying if we did it, we would have to remove all the obsidian swords, too?

Yes, I take it personally when someone ignores my actual argument and the context to play "I'm Right On the Internet." If you had actually read what I had written, you'd see that

Quote
I think you're taking it a little personally that people are saying slings are much more viable than slingshots and that we should change the sdescs to accurately portray the difference between the two.

is something I said I agreed with.

RogueGunslinger

  • Posts: 18725
Re: And with it, David slew the giant.
« Reply #34 on: April 17, 2016, 10:38:08 PM »
I'm not trying to win anything or "be right on the internet." I'm just saying slingshots should not be in the game and I've clearly explained why. I don't think pistols should be in the game and we invented those hundred of years before slingshots. Your only explanation for why it should exist is "other things that make no sense exist".

hyzhenhok

  • Posts: 1634
Re: And with it, David slew the giant.
« Reply #35 on: April 17, 2016, 10:48:49 PM »
I'm not trying to win anything or "be right on the internet." I'm just saying slingshots should not be in the game and I've clearly explained why. I don't think pistols should be in the game and we invented those hundred of years before slingshots. Your only explanation for why it should exist is "other things that make no sense exist".

I don't believe I ever said slingshots should exist in the game. Just that their presence is not very offensive.

At any rate, inconsistencies with Real Earth Stone Age Science is an extremely weak reason why something should be excluded from a fantasy video game set in another universe.

RogueGunslinger

  • Posts: 18725
Re: And with it, David slew the giant.
« Reply #36 on: April 17, 2016, 11:37:30 PM »
A weak reason? That's just your opinion. It's a weak reason if you dismiss the motivation behind not liking something due to "realism". Which isn't just "It's not real so it shouldn't exist." but also "I have no idea how to imagine it in my head thus it breaks the shit out of my immersion." A game needs to have internal consistencies otherwise it doesn't feel i like it is believable. As is, any mundane means of making a slingshot just doesn't jive with me with Zalanthas' technology. It doesn't even seem to be particularly jiving with you either...

If you want sling-shots that use magickal thread or some sort of Zalanthas only spider-web then fine, I guess. But I don't think that's very consistent with the world of Zalanthas as it is. I would rather they were just removed entirely instead of patched up with mystical hand-waving.

I don't believe I ever said slingshots should exist in the game. Just that their presence is not very offensive.

I don't find them offensive. I find them illogical and hard to imagine. Also, you may have never said "slingshots should exist" verbatim but you were certainly implying it when you said things like this:

I don't think there's a problem with slingshots existing in the game.

The entire premise of your disagreement was based on "slingshots can be made with stone-age tools." Before it was pointed out as BS and you decided to morph your argument into "Other unrealistic things exists." and finally "slingshots aren't offensive." ...Alrightythen.jpg

hyzhenhok

  • Posts: 1634
Re: And with it, David slew the giant.
« Reply #37 on: April 18, 2016, 12:33:23 AM »
I don't see any point arguing about how easy it is to suspend disbelief about something. You win.

evilcabbage

  • Posts: 1733
Re: And with it, David slew the giant.
« Reply #38 on: April 19, 2016, 04:27:54 AM »
nigh-unbreakable obsidian swords exist in game.

swords are made out of bone and nothing but bone.

a fantastical elastic vine with the ability to launch rocks?

absolutely





you are taking this far too seriously. the slingshot exists. the items called slingshots that are slings should be renamed. bug them, then. or typo them. probably typo. typo is better.
I could give a shit about wholesome.

RogueGunslinger

  • Posts: 18725
Re: And with it, David slew the giant.
« Reply #39 on: April 19, 2016, 07:59:00 AM »
Your only explanation for why it should exist is "other things that make no sense exist".


evilcabbage

  • Posts: 1733
Re: And with it, David slew the giant.
« Reply #40 on: April 19, 2016, 08:29:13 AM »
and? big deal.

lots of things exist in this game that don't make any sense at all.

cloaks made entirely of wool in a land that is almost perpetually warm to hot?

-coats- made of wool in a land that is almost perpetually warm to hot?

again, swords made entirely of obsidian that don't break, somehow set into handles made of bone that also don't break.

armor held together with threads of -giants hair-?

the idea that there might be a fairly elastic vine that you can use to make a slingshot isn't all that big a deal to me.


if you want to make the game more realistic, you might want to start looking at the entirety of it instead of picking apart one piece.
I could give a shit about wholesome.

Desertman

  • Posts: 9490
Re: And with it, David slew the giant.
« Reply #41 on: April 19, 2016, 08:43:33 AM »
and? big deal.

lots of things exist in this game that don't make any sense at all.

cloaks made entirely of wool in a land that is almost perpetually warm to hot?

-coats- made of wool in a land that is almost perpetually warm to hot?

again, swords made entirely of obsidian that don't break, somehow set into handles made of bone that also don't break.

armor held together with threads of -giants hair-?

the idea that there might be a fairly elastic vine that you can use to make a slingshot isn't all that big a deal to me.


if you want to make the game more realistic, you might want to start looking at the entirety of it instead of picking apart one piece.

I'm fine with this if staff wants to put in a vine that is commonly known to be so incredibly elastic it would actually work for a slingshot.

As it stands the slingshots I know of in the game don't use said vine. They use a normal common vine not known to be any more elastic than any other vine.

I think it would be sort of neat if a very elastic animal sinew from "insert animal" was discovered and people could incorporate that into crafts.

I don't think anyone is against, "Slingshots existing.", I just think they don't like the idea of the following:

A) Items described in the game as slings having the sdesc of "slingshot".....which for some reason they do.
B) The slingshots in game having magical elastic properties assigned to materials that in no other instance have said properties.


The slingshots in the game having their common non-elastic materials assigned elastic properties just for that item for no reason is the issue. It makes about as much sense as that super hard obsidian being assigned the fabulous ability to float for an airship item because someone decided they wanted to make an obsidian airship.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2016, 08:46:12 AM by Desertman »
My phone now autocorrects "damn" to Dman.
The young daughter has been filled.

RogueGunslinger

  • Posts: 18725
Re: And with it, David slew the giant.
« Reply #42 on: April 19, 2016, 09:14:51 AM »
and? big deal.

And it's a horrible argument. I'm fine where mystical things fill in gaps that would otherwise make no sense or throw someone off: Giant hair being a very strong, or obsidian being strong so every sword doesn't shatter instantly is there for playability reasons. Everything else I would want removed just like I want slingshots gone.

I am against slingshots existing because the "magickal vine" sounds like eye-rolling horseshit I'd find in a typical fantasy setting, like some Elvish gift from Elrond. Fluff there to serve no purpose than to hand-wave someones 15 year old code addition that was inspired by Dennis the Menace.

And it isn't a big deal. I couldn't give a shit if it's actually removed, I'm perfectly fine ignoring them and suspending disbelief. But this is a discussion thread about slingshots, so, you know. Giving my opinion on slingshots. Trying to diminish my opinion as overblown just because you disagree doesn't give your horrible argument any more weight.

Armaddict

  • Posts: 5786
Re: And with it, David slew the giant.
« Reply #43 on: April 19, 2016, 04:49:46 PM »
I think the prospect of fixing a few slingshot objects is also drastically different than revamping a major component for arms and armor as a whole, too. The comparison between the two is like cleaning a children's sandbox versus cleaning an entire coastline.

In the end, this is a very small number of objects. We are very talented at turning not big things into big things on this board. Does someone actually care if we changed slingshot to slings and no longer had slingshot, or are we just arguing for the he'll of it?
She wasn't doing a thing that I could see, except standing there leaning on the balcony railing, holding the universe together. --J.D. Salinger

Molten Heart

  • Posts: 1706
Re: And with it, David slew the giant.
« Reply #44 on: April 19, 2016, 05:25:07 PM »
On second thought slingshots are pretty bitchin'. Why would anyone not want one?

Inks

  • Posts: 1057
Re: And with it, David slew the giant.
« Reply #45 on: April 19, 2016, 09:02:03 PM »
I think the prospect of fixing a few slingshot objects is also drastically different than revamping a major component for arms and armor as a whole, too. The comparison between the two is like cleaning a children's sandbox versus cleaning an entire coastline.

In the end, this is a very small number of objects. We are very talented at turning not big things into big things on this board. Does someone actually care if we changed slingshot to slings and no longer had slingshot, or are we just arguing for the he'll of it?


Yeah. Pretty much this. Would take a few minutes to fix once approved by Imms. Also I miss Jave. WHERE IS HE?
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Vositus

  • Posts: 396
Re: And with it, David slew the giant.
« Reply #46 on: April 21, 2016, 09:07:14 PM »
Relevant video if you have 10 minutes to spare. The speed it snaps outta there is pretty damn impressive.


Miradus

  • Posts: 1554
Re: And with it, David slew the giant.
« Reply #47 on: June 08, 2016, 01:34:23 PM »
Cool biblical info:

We are told David took five stones to go out and face Goliath. Why? Did he think he might miss?

No. Goliath the giant of Gath was known to have four sons who were present on the field of battle and were expected to come to the defense of their father.

David went out not expecting to have to fight ONE giant, but FIVE.

Desertman

  • Posts: 9490
Re: And with it, David slew the giant.
« Reply #48 on: June 08, 2016, 03:13:59 PM »
Cool biblical info:

We are told David took five stones to go out and face Goliath. Why? Did he think he might miss?

No. Goliath the giant of Gath was known to have four sons who were present on the field of battle and were expected to come to the defense of their father.

David went out not expecting to have to fight ONE giant, but FIVE.

I like the jawbone of the ass one better. I have played Sampson in-game, minus the super human Hercules strength bit, and used a cilops jaw as my weapon....I didn't accomplish much but I did like emoting slaying things with a jawbone. Hehehe.
My phone now autocorrects "damn" to Dman.
The young daughter has been filled.

Miradus

  • Posts: 1554
Re: And with it, David slew the giant.
« Reply #49 on: June 08, 2016, 03:30:36 PM »
The jawbone of an ass in the Samson discussions is pretty peculiar. Samson was more or less a Jewish superhero and I'm not sure how much of his exploits we are supposed to believe. (I am not one of the Christians who believe in the complete inerrancy of the Bible). I think it's supposed to be a statement indicating how potent Samson was when the power of God came upon him that he could slay thousands of men with such an unlikely instrument.

As to the whole "jawbone of a cilops" ... isn't a cilops just a big insect? Insects do not have bones. It should be "mandible" or something, shouldn't it?

I think we should just acknowledge the setting in Arm is just a hodge-podge of crap that various people over the decades have found cool and not take it really that seriously or consider it too realistic. Better that than trying to understand how the desert elves developed a Nepalese kukri, a distinct tool for chopping through brush and dense forest.