Changes made to how offense, defense, weapon proficiency, and twohanded increase

[najdorf]

best improvement to combat mechanics in a long time while keeping things still balanced

[BadSkeelz]

Sounds like a great change, especially for the military clans.

[Chettaman]

Genos did it.
I wonder what it's like to have master weapons skills....

[Majikal]

*approval stamp*

[IAmJacksOpinion]

I'm definitely glad to see this issue getting addressed, but I'm still hesitantly in the camp of thinking this was more of a cure for the symptom instead of the disease... My head's in the same place Synth's is.

Either way, definitely going to have to do a Tour d' Byn in the near future and kick the tires on this update.

[Dresan]

I think if all branching ever gets lowered to low to mid advanced instead of needing the skills mastered, we'd be in a good place in addition to this change.

[RogueGunslinger]

I kind of like branching where it is. If anything they branching order just needs revised.

[Dresan]

Its half the reason the feeling of grind exists. The first reason is because sometimes you need to branch to be effective. #PickpocketWoes. And the second because skills like hide/sneak aren't that reliable at lower levels. 

[Riev]

The branches are fine, in that being a "master" at a weapon skill SHOULD be pretty significant. If we're talking a 0-100 scale, the difference of 40-50 points, to me, is like a +4 or +5 on your D20.

I think where people get frustrated is that when you DO branch a higher weapon skill, your offense/style is so high that you honestly aren't ever going to get that secondary skill to a level that is significant, simply by how the combat system works. You're much better staying a Master Swordsman than you are, say, trying to become a polearm master.

[John]

Its half the reason the feeling of grind exists. The first reason is because sometimes you need to branch to be effective. #PickpocketWoes.

I've looked at burglars/assassins and pickpockets and I'm just waiting for Adhira to start that thread on feedback for the guilds.

And the second because skills like hide/sneak aren't that reliable at lower levels.  

I dunno. I think the whole "you have to grind so hard and so long to be effective" gets thrown around a bit too much. And for that I do blame the fact the ranks are now visible. It doesn't seem (to me) like advancing in some skills requires dedicated practice, but instead simply requires normal behaviour that someone whose trying to provide for themselves would carry out in a balanced manner.

I think where people get frustrated is that when you DO branch a higher weapon skill, your offense/style is so high that you honestly aren't ever going to get that secondary skill to a level that is significant, simply by how the combat system works. You're much better staying a Master Swordsman than you are, say, trying to become a polearm master.

From what I've heard you don't need to get those skills high to be effective. I don't know how much the code works is being openly discussed these days (certainly more than there was a few years ago! I've gone to report a few posts only to see staff quote those posts and discuss the points the post raised even further!). But I think having even entry level in those advanced weapon skills will make you someone to be feared.

[Dresan]

You try committing a crime before hide/sneak hits advance and see how that works out for you.  


Sadly weapon skills are the only skills that seem to come into people's minds when branching is concerned. Master slashing weapon skill is great, but warriors should have the option to move on to bigger and better a bit sooner and then get to decide if they want to invest the time to master that basic weapon skill like that ranger is doing.

By allowing people to branching sooner, it would mean that with skill bump invested (3 times per year special app), you will eventually branch without needing to twink. I'm okay with it still being for people without skill bumps to get weapons skills to master and then advanced weapons higher after due to offense skill being so high.

 

[John]

You try committing a crime before hide/sneak hits advance and see how that works out for you.  

Have and it's not that bad if you're careful.

As for twinking being required to branch: it's not. Given twinking is against the rules (if we define it as acting unrealistically for coded advantage) I completely reject the idea that the majority of players do it. Although maybe I'm wrong and you guys are a bunch of twinks.Personally I think people just need to calm down and focus on their character, not their skill list. Unless your only talking about advanced weapon skills. In which case getting those branched is a lifetime achievement. I personally like it like that because it means those who get them are truly masters of fighting that very few other people can ever hope to equal. If you make razors easier to get then everyone is going to complain how uber powerful warriors are and how there's no point anyone else bothering to play non-magical combat characters. Keep it rare and those who do branch them ICly and OOCly become things of legend.

[Asanadas]

Things of legend.

I remember a Tuluki soldier branching pikes in less than 5 days played.

That's like a joke to me. 

In my opinion, lower the .go-on values and in fact take some skills out of the branching order entirely. Merchant is a great example of a hair-pulling tedious process not to become useful, but to become relevant.

Hopefully with the guild lookings at eventually coming, the decision to streamline this archaic design will come through. I'm available for Q/A if you need some design tips, staffers.

[John]

Things of legend.

I remember a Tuluki soldier branching pikes in less than 5 days played.

That's like a joke to me. 

In my opinion, lower the .go-on values and in fact take some skills out of the branching order entirely. Merchant is a great example of a hair-pulling tedious process not to become useful, but to become relevant.

Hopefully with the guild lookings at eventually coming, the decision to streamline this archaic design will come through. I'm available for Q/A if you need some design tips, staffers.

Well this either demonstrates that (1) Twinking isn't required or (2) Twinking gets you an unreasonably big advantage.

Either/or, twinking isn't necessary.

[Delirium]

Code abuse isn't required... what is required: patience, the willingness to regularly train, and experience with how the code works.

[Nergal]

(1) Twinking isn't required or (2) Twinking gets you an unreasonably big advantage.

Both of those used to be true - hopefully this change will close the gap on (2), not so much by nerfing the common twinking methods but by closing the gap between twinks and regular training.

[Riev]

(1) Twinking isn't required or (2) Twinking gets you an unreasonably big advantage.

Both of those used to be true - hopefully this change will close the gap on (2), not so much by nerfing the common twinking methods but by closing the gap between twinks and regular training.

So. The entire purpose, hopefully, is that the 'quicker' new PCs can learn their skills from the established fighters in a clan, the faster the established fighters will start fighting someone more equal, and thus getting more skill?

I want to believe in it, so hard, because I hate being a dirty independent PC with no help or backing. However, I've BEEN the established warrior, fighting a relatively equal warrior, and the sitting there... blocking and parrying and etc etc... when slashing gloves were taken away I was convinced it was Jet Li fighting Jet Li. Nobody wins.

[Nergal]

(1) Twinking isn't required or (2) Twinking gets you an unreasonably big advantage.

Both of those used to be true - hopefully this change will close the gap on (2), not so much by nerfing the common twinking methods but by closing the gap between twinks and regular training.

So. The entire purpose, hopefully, is that the 'quicker' new PCs can learn their skills from the established fighters in a clan, the faster the established fighters will start fighting someone more equal, and thus getting more skill?

Essentially, yes.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I just want to make a quick note: skilling up isn't the same as twinking. Just because someone finds even a thin excuse to go and fight X and Y because they know it will help them doesn't mean they are twinking. Twinking is when they go do all of that and there is no roleplay or consideration of anything beside for skilling up. There is a difference.

I am quite pleased with this change, by the way.

[John]

When I'm a bit unsure how to construct my character's activities I typically start with something that resembles the Byn schedule:
Dawn: Get to area for Activity 1
Early Morning: Activity 1
Late Morning: Actviity 1
High Sun: Rest
Early Afternoon: Variable Activity
Late Afternoon: Variable Activity
Dusk: Go somewhere to socialise (if previous activity was outside the city then I typically make sure I'm in the city by Dusk),
Late at Night: Rest
Before Dawn: Rest

What these activities are of course varies from character to character, as does the exact times. But it's essentially two IC hours of one activity, have a break and then another two IC hours of ideally a different activity (my newbie salt foragers for example need to dedicate the full 4ish hours to gathering salt simply to not starve or die of thirst each day).

While I find this is a good starting point, I also find it tends to go out the window once my character starts getting to know people and get involved in plots and such.