Author Topic: Some Recent Thoughts Of Mine About Mages  (Read 22594 times)

Delirium

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Re: Some Recent Thoughts Of Mine About Mages
« Reply #50 on: September 11, 2015, 09:35:16 AM »
Mundanes tend to be way too black & white toward mages. It's like a dice flip between "flee;flee;flee" and "u wot m8" with very rare instances of actual nuanced interaction.

I guess this can make mages feel like they have to get the surprise jump even if the intent isn't to kill, and have the skills to not die. So it's a vicious cycle.
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Synthesis

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Re: Some Recent Thoughts Of Mine About Mages
« Reply #51 on: September 11, 2015, 09:47:16 AM »
Mundanes tend to be way too black & white toward mages. It's like a dice flip between "flee;flee;flee" and "u wot m8" with very rare instances of actual nuanced interaction.

I guess this can make mages feel like they have to get the surprise jump even if the intent isn't to kill, and have the skills to not die. So it's a vicious cycle.

I think the issue is more like...

In order for a mage not to get reel-locked and supremely fucked up by a moderately skilled and strong mundane PC in a no-law zone, they have to do some serious prepping, or be untargetable.

So...if a magicker wants to roll up on a mundane PC in a no-law zone and pursue whatever type of interaction, they tend to be either invisible or GLOWING HUMMING COVERED IN RAINBOW SPRINKLES WIELDING A GIANT FLAMING DOUBLE-HEADED DILDO.  Which...you know...kind of makes you think that dude is there to either fuck you or fuck you up.
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Delirium

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Re: Some Recent Thoughts Of Mine About Mages
« Reply #52 on: September 11, 2015, 09:49:43 AM »
Mundanes tend to be way too black & white toward mages. It's like a dice flip between "flee;flee;flee" and "u wot m8" with very rare instances of actual nuanced interaction.

I guess this can make mages feel like they have to get the surprise jump even if the intent isn't to kill, and have the skills to not die. So it's a vicious cycle.

I think the issue is more like...

In order for a mage not to get reel-locked and supremely fucked up by a moderately skilled and strong mundane PC in a no-law zone, they have to do some serious prepping, or be untargetable.

So...if a magicker wants to roll up on a mundane PC in a no-law zone and pursue whatever type of interaction, they tend to be either invisible or GLOWING HUMMING COVERED IN RAINBOW SPRINKLES WIELDING A GIANT FLAMING DOUBLE-HEADED DILDO.  Which...you know...kind of makes you think that dude is there to either fuck you or fuck you up.

Basically, yeah.
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Eyeball

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Re: Some Recent Thoughts Of Mine About Mages
« Reply #53 on: September 11, 2015, 12:15:29 PM »
Why not just create an extended "no elemental magick" zone around the silt sea and Red Storm. Blame the sea, the Sand Lord, some overpowered Nilazi, or whatever.

Then all of the magick haters can have their haven where they can feel like kings.

Delirium

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Re: Some Recent Thoughts Of Mine About Mages
« Reply #54 on: September 11, 2015, 12:18:37 PM »
That would actually be really cool.
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wizturbo

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Re: Some Recent Thoughts Of Mine About Mages
« Reply #55 on: September 11, 2015, 12:42:44 PM »
Why not just create an extended "no elemental magick" zone around the silt sea and Red Storm. Blame the sea, the Sand Lord, some overpowered Nilazi, or whatever.

Then all of the magick haters can have their haven where they can feel like kings.

Not really, the mindbenders or sorcerers will be the kings in that area then, instead of the elementalists.  I guess that'll be much more rare, because of the karma requirements...but there's plenty of people within spec app range of either class.

Is Friday

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Re: Some Recent Thoughts Of Mine About Mages
« Reply #56 on: September 11, 2015, 12:45:24 PM »
Uh. Wouldn't that make it even more awesome?
And then I sat there going "really? that was it? that's so stupid."

I still think the best closure you get in Armageddon is just moving on to the next character.

Eyeball

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Re: Some Recent Thoughts Of Mine About Mages
« Reply #57 on: September 11, 2015, 01:46:30 PM »
Why not just create an extended "no elemental magick" zone around the silt sea and Red Storm. Blame the sea, the Sand Lord, some overpowered Nilazi, or whatever.

Then all of the magick haters can have their haven where they can feel like kings.

Not really, the mindbenders or sorcerers will be the kings in that area then, instead of the elementalists.  I guess that'll be much more rare, because of the karma requirements...but there's plenty of people within spec app range of either class.

Except we don't get repeated threads of people hating mindbenders and sorcerers and wanting them gone or nerfed into oblivion.

BadSkeelz

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Re: Some Recent Thoughts Of Mine About Mages
« Reply #58 on: September 11, 2015, 01:54:42 PM »
Anything bad you want to say about Elementalists can also be said about sorcerers. It's why I prefer the use of "Magick" and "Magicker."

Mindworms also don't tend to reach the same level of world-challenging power and danger that elementalists and (old, full power) sorcerers can. They're also much harder to skill up.
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wizturbo

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Re: Some Recent Thoughts Of Mine About Mages
« Reply #59 on: September 11, 2015, 02:12:43 PM »

Except we don't get repeated threads of people hating mindbenders and sorcerers and wanting them gone or nerfed into oblivion.

That's just because most people don't realize they're out there because the whole, keep your secret or die thing :)

Sorcerers and Mindbenders also don't tend to PK using their powers, because 1)  if you take a swing and miss, your cover is blown.  2)  If you take a swing and hit, OOCly you have to hope the victim keeps their experiences secret...and given how long it takes to level up either class, that's a lot to risk.  You see people willing to take that risk with elementalists because they're less time intensive to skill up, and more importantly, their magickal abilities aren't forbidden everywhere in the known.  If people learn they're secretly a Whiran, so what?  That's an evolution of the character, or...in many cases they don't bother to keep it a secret at all.  If sorcerers were permitted a single safe haven in the world, you'd see a change in the number of aggressive sorcs out there.

bardlyone

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Re: Some Recent Thoughts Of Mine About Mages
« Reply #60 on: September 11, 2015, 03:04:46 PM »
I have never PKd using magick. I have never attacked another players character with magick unless attacked first.
I would have to assume that the amount of magicker on mundane attacks is greatly overshadowed by mundane on magicker attacks.

Out of about... 150 or so mages and 4 or so sorcerers... about 30% of them were pked.

1 magicker used magick 1 time to kill another magicker. They were going to pk a mundane who was involved with someone they liked, but the mundane ran into the next room and got killed by an npc.

About 9 of 10 times being pked was a desert elf doing it.

The straggling odd numbers were human, mostly soldiers or templars.

I'm inclined to say that the pk numbers depend on the playstyle of the one running the pc. Because I just don't tend to pk people. If it wasn't for the 1 person being responsible for about a dozen acquaintances and so on's deaths, that person never would've died. But then you have other people who genuinely would kill someone for their shoes. And if they play magickers, their magickers probably aren't much different than their mundanes.
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Jingo

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Re: Some Recent Thoughts Of Mine About Mages
« Reply #61 on: September 11, 2015, 03:36:42 PM »
Why not just create an extended "no elemental magick" zone around the silt sea and Red Storm. Blame the sea, the Sand Lord, some overpowered Nilazi, or whatever.

Then all of the magick haters can have their haven where they can feel like kings.

There is stuff like that in place right now... le Find out le IC. It would be neat plot to create expansive no magick zones though.
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Is Friday

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Re: Some Recent Thoughts Of Mine About Mages
« Reply #62 on: September 11, 2015, 03:38:22 PM »
I have never PKd using magick. I have never attacked another players character with magick unless attacked first.
I would have to assume that the amount of magicker on mundane attacks is greatly overshadowed by mundane on magicker attacks.

Out of about... 150 or so mages and 4 or so sorcerers... about 30% of them were pked.

1 magicker used magick 1 time to kill another magicker. They were going to pk a mundane who was involved with someone they liked, but the mundane ran into the next room and got killed by an npc.

About 9 of 10 times being pked was a desert elf doing it.

The straggling odd numbers were human, mostly soldiers or templars.

I'm inclined to say that the pk numbers depend on the playstyle of the one running the pc. Because I just don't tend to pk people. If it wasn't for the 1 person being responsible for about a dozen acquaintances and so on's deaths, that person never would've died. But then you have other people who genuinely would kill someone for their shoes. And if they play magickers, their magickers probably aren't much different than their mundanes.
What numbers are you pulling from here? Your own 150 magicker/sorcs?
And then I sat there going "really? that was it? that's so stupid."

I still think the best closure you get in Armageddon is just moving on to the next character.

bardlyone

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Re: Some Recent Thoughts Of Mine About Mages
« Reply #63 on: September 11, 2015, 03:48:02 PM »
I have never PKd using magick. I have never attacked another players character with magick unless attacked first.
I would have to assume that the amount of magicker on mundane attacks is greatly overshadowed by mundane on magicker attacks.

Out of about... 150 or so mages and 4 or so sorcerers... about 30% of them were pked.

1 magicker used magick 1 time to kill another magicker. They were going to pk a mundane who was involved with someone they liked, but the mundane ran into the next room and got killed by an npc.

About 9 of 10 times being pked was a desert elf doing it.

The straggling odd numbers were human, mostly soldiers or templars.

I'm inclined to say that the pk numbers depend on the playstyle of the one running the pc. Because I just don't tend to pk people. If it wasn't for the 1 person being responsible for about a dozen acquaintances and so on's deaths, that person never would've died. But then you have other people who genuinely would kill someone for their shoes. And if they play magickers, their magickers probably aren't much different than their mundanes.
What numbers are you pulling from here? Your own 150 magicker/sorcs?

There were only roughly 4 sorcerers. But yes. I've been playing nearly a decade.
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Delirium

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Re: Some Recent Thoughts Of Mine About Mages
« Reply #64 on: September 11, 2015, 04:02:54 PM »
12 years, 30 characters... I can't decide if I'm doing something very wrong, or right.

Anyway, everyone's playstyle is different. I'll (try to) PK the hell out of someone who deserves it, or acts like they deserve it, or if I'm being paid, or if there's a (wo)man....



As long as it's motivated by solid in-character reasons, it's okay in my book. I used to be a lot more hesitant to PK, but honestly, the game gets stagnant otherwise.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2015, 04:05:55 PM by Delirium »
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bardlyone

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Re: Some Recent Thoughts Of Mine About Mages
« Reply #65 on: September 11, 2015, 04:15:24 PM »
As long as it's motivated by solid in-character reasons, it's okay in my book. I used to be a lot more hesitant to PK, but honestly, the game gets stagnant otherwise.

Yeah, I have no problem with doing so when the story is improved by it, not remotely. It's more a question of how much story for each person at the keyboard, I think? There were several instances that could have ended more violently, for sure, but did not.

As to character #s... I tend to go through 2-10 characters between longer lived ones. A lot of pcs, I like the concept of it until it's time to play it, then find myself just totally unenthused about, or they wind up dying to stupid crap like hidden aggro mobs, while out exploring, and then there's ones that die to poison... a not insignificant amount.
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musashi

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Re: Some Recent Thoughts Of Mine About Mages
« Reply #66 on: September 11, 2015, 04:57:09 PM »
... I'd guess that no PC warrior -ever- (who wasn't staff-modified) has actually been "better" with an advanced weapon skill than they were with the weapon skill they branched it from.

Yeah, but there was this one class ... that you can't play anymore ... that started with an advanced weapon skill, so you could max it before you got too buff to gain anymore ... and it was fucking amazing.  :D
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FantasyWriter

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Re: Some Recent Thoughts Of Mine About Mages
« Reply #67 on: September 11, 2015, 05:43:19 PM »
So basically, in the last year, we have lost being able to play Bruce Lee, neigh invincible psions, and full sorcerers.  Two of those, I will always regret not getting a chance to play eventually, the other... good residence.

Seriously though, those who want a less supernaturally dominant game. Your agenda's gotten a lot of traction recently.
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Inks

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Re: Some Recent Thoughts Of Mine About Mages
« Reply #68 on: September 11, 2015, 06:19:25 PM »
Okay "ONE WEIRD TRICK-WARRIORS HATE HIM" Made me laugh.

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wizturbo

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Re: Some Recent Thoughts Of Mine About Mages
« Reply #69 on: September 11, 2015, 07:00:09 PM »
Seriously though, those who want a less supernaturally dominant game. Your agenda's gotten a lot of traction recently.

Yup, I hope the pendulum swings a little bit back in the other direction.  I strongly believe the anti-magick sentiment is a small, vocal minority on the GDB and not an accurate representation of the playerbase.  Past survey's have hinted as much.

musashi

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Re: Some Recent Thoughts Of Mine About Mages
« Reply #70 on: September 11, 2015, 07:09:38 PM »
Like I said, my thoughts are given in a constructive light. I love playing mages. Just suggesting stuff I think would make the experience more immersive and less prone to twinkery.

I've twinked out on mages before myself so I'm not trying to stand on a soapbox about it. But as I matured as a player blah blah blah fuck mages.  >:(


 :-*
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Inks

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Re: Some Recent Thoughts Of Mine About Mages
« Reply #71 on: September 11, 2015, 07:11:04 PM »
I enjoy playing mages too. Especially if I don't have much time to skill up.
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Re: Some Recent Thoughts Of Mine About Mages
« Reply #72 on: September 11, 2015, 07:52:05 PM »
Seriously though, those who want a less supernaturally dominant game. Your agenda's gotten a lot of traction recently.

Yup, I hope the pendulum swings a little bit back in the other direction.  I strongly believe the anti-magick sentiment is a small, vocal minority on the GDB and not an accurate representation of the playerbase.  Past survey's have hinted as much.

I strongly believe some variant "eh? *shrug*" sentiment is the strongest in the general player base, which leaves the two minorities to slug it out.

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Feco

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Re: Some Recent Thoughts Of Mine About Mages
« Reply #73 on: September 11, 2015, 09:41:33 PM »
I'm happy with supernatural balance of the game at the moment.

A third of my characters have been mages, though, if that says anything about my preferences.
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Erythil

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Re: Some Recent Thoughts Of Mine About Mages
« Reply #74 on: September 12, 2015, 06:36:57 AM »
For my money, the only overpowered magic combo in the game was the dreaded fly/invis/summon triangle.  Being able to use that to kill just about anyone was un-fun.  But combine the breaking of that triad with the new protections inside of cities and I think the balance of magic is in a fairly reasonable place.  I'd be okay with some light nerfs to nil, maybe making it so you couldn't get your last few power words without more practical experience, but to be honest, it wouldn't be hard to find low-value gurth targets to go nuke with your flamestrike up to mon anyway.  Magic isn't designed to be a long-term grind like weapon skills are.

It feels to me like people have internalized the anti-magical hate of the setting a bit much and want to enforce it from a metagame perspective.  This is a game based on D&D.  It has powerful wizards, elementals, skeletons, dragons, and shit cooked right into the basics of the setting.  It is not Mad Max with swords.  I enjoy these high fantasy elements and they're already heavily gated behind a karma grind that can take years.  Staff will not give karma to players that they do not think deserve it.  This has sometimes included myself.

I came in after the supposed dark age of the CAM and I feel like the game's collective OOC community is still overreacting to whatever horrible over-the-top things were supposedly going on then.