Author Topic: Gemmed Temples Idea  (Read 23133 times)

Asmoth

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Gemmed Temples Idea
« on: May 18, 2015, 08:54:09 PM »
So after following the spamcasting thread it got me thinking.

We have these elementalist temples in the gemmed quarter and x number of characters who play x elementalist at a time due to either karma limits or staff imposed limits which is totally understandable.

However, the temples seem to serve as simply gathering places and not places of teaching as they appear to be written (some npcs are supposedly teaching).  I always wondered why they didn't have groups of Elementalists that banded together like a clan?  Why isn't there a job as water witch of allanak or whatever?

If the temples actually had classes where like classed Elementalists could gather and learn from one another (pcs not npcs) then we could actually role play out how the teacher interprets their magick and effects of babyeater of doom spell effects etc?

There are tons of rp possibilities in using the temples as more than a place to cast evil magick in the city. Templars could come and give the reigning leader of the whirans a task to do x and why and that leader could then pass it down to the lower level ones to get shit done.  Merchant houses could hire a vivaduan to keep their people watered on a long trip, there could be a bullitin board where random players could seek out magickers to help them curse the necker that stole their coin pouch and so on.

The temples seem extremely dead and unused to me and it would be nice if they had a useful purpose.
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<19:14:13> "Jihelu": IT's not always /with/ animals

whitt

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Re: Gemmed Temples Idea
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2015, 09:02:26 PM »
It seems to me to you have a lot of good ideas that are potentially impossible for folks playing to respond to you about.  I'd suggest gathering these up into a character report and speaking to the AoD/Gemmed Staff about them that way.
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HavokBlue

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Re: Gemmed Temples Idea
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2015, 09:03:40 PM »
I'm confused about what you're asking for here.

If you're suggesting that people should employ mages for more odd jobs... there are avenues to do that in game, and if you don't hear about it, it's probably because A ) nobody wants to hire a dirty gick or B ) nobody wants you to know they hired a dirty gick.
All the world will be your enemy. When they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you; digger, listener, runner, Prince with the swift warning. Be cunning, and full of tricks, and your people will never be destroyed.

RogueGunslinger

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Re: Gemmed Temples Idea
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2015, 09:08:03 PM »
Well, the Gemmed have banded together as a coded clan before, they were really popular, called the Council of Allanaki Mages, were a part of lots of plots and that time is unlovingly referred to as "x-men days" because of how prominent magick and magickal plotlines were.

As for their options now, mages can Join Oash, a noble house known for housing mages and making wine.

Asmoth

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Re: Gemmed Temples Idea
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2015, 09:11:22 PM »
It seems to me to you have a lot of good ideas that are potentially impossible for folks playing to respond to you about.  I'd suggest gathering these up into a character report and speaking to the AoD/Gemmed Staff about them that way.
I've been told to use my fellow players as sounding boards and to leave staff alone.
<19:14:06> "Bushranger": Why is it always about sex with animals with you Jihelu?
<19:14:13> "Jihelu": IT's not always /with/ animals

wizturbo

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Re: Gemmed Temples Idea
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2015, 09:21:32 PM »
There's nothing OOCly stopping you from trying to foster this kind of environment.   I played a PC who managed to do some of the things you listed and I had a blast doing it, but don't expect to snap your fingers ICly and make it happen.  Even a place like the Elementalist Quarter has politics, and believe me, they can be just as lethal as other political aspects of the game.



« Last Edit: May 18, 2015, 09:36:51 PM by wizturbo »

Marauder Moe

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Re: Gemmed Temples Idea
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2015, 10:32:41 AM »
So I can't speak about how things are now, but in the past there were times where things were as you described; older gemmed PCs who were willing to teach the youngins, non-Oash groups with various levels of organization (CAM), and staff animating elders and minions of various temples giving them a will and agenda.  It all depends on the particular gemmed PCs, templar PCs, and staff around.

I think it's safe to say that a lot of temple NPCs seem to have >talk scripts.  I've also been encouraged to solo-RP lessons (covering the basic info found in the help files) with them for n00b mages who can't find a PC mentor.

Patuk

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Re: Gemmed Temples Idea
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2015, 12:26:32 PM »
Just merge the bloody temples already, seriously. It would make Gemmed in general way, way, way more playable. One bigger temple with special rooms for each element plus a meeting hall and you're done.
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Delirium

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Re: Gemmed Temples Idea
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2015, 12:30:48 PM »
I thought that was what was going to happen with the Quarter a while back (after some IC events) - one main temple for meeting and lots of freed up areas for shops/taverns/housing. I was excited.

Alas, the temples themselves were just rebuilt to be grungier.

Back in the day, everyone would just gather at the Vivaduan temple anyway. Until we got kicked out by angry NPCs for crowding up the place.

Then we just moved to the plaza area, which wasn't as central but it was fine.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2015, 12:33:29 PM by Delirium »
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nauta

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Re: Gemmed Temples Idea
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2015, 12:33:22 PM »
Just merge the bloody temples already, seriously. It would make Gemmed in general way, way, way more playable. One bigger temple with special rooms for each element plus a meeting hall and you're done.

There's already a meeting place in the Quarter.  

I'd like two things:

o a message board (the same as the one outside the Quarter, so gemmed don't have to leave to figure out what's the talk of the town)

o a private (lockless) hovel-style meeting spot (for, um, betrayal, yeah.)


« Last Edit: May 19, 2015, 12:40:24 PM by nauta »
as IF you didn't just have them unconscious, naked, and helpless in the street 4 minutes ago

Pale Horse

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Re: Gemmed Temples Idea
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2015, 12:41:26 PM »
I thought that was what was going to happen with the Quarter a while back (after some IC events) - one main temple for meeting and lots of freed up areas for shops/taverns/housing. I was excited.

Alas, the temples themselves were just rebuilt to be grungier.

Such was my hope, too.

I may be miss-remembering, but I could have sworn the reason for keeping the elemental temples separated is/was per Staff policy of some sort.  Maybe it was just a Staff member chiming in with their own, personal explanation...Anyway!  Keeping all the gemmed in a single location would make it too easy to remain segregated from the rest of the playerbase.  Gemmed are supposed to be an iso role, but darn it!  Get out of the Quarter and be the source of loathing/fear/social-stigma and shunning/whipping boy for everyone else!

Since I can't pinpoint the source, I take back what I said about this being Staff policy; I do not want to do them a disservice.  This view is more than likely my own impressions as to why the temples are not consolidated.  It doesn't really make the role that appealing for those who might enjoy social role-play beyond being the outcast, and I sympathize, but not every role is for everyone.
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Delirium

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Re: Gemmed Temples Idea
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2015, 12:45:12 PM »
It's a weird catch-22. The impression I get is they don't want all of the gemmed to be too buddy-buddy, but they also don't want too much exposure to the mundanes to prevent the feeling of the game being over-saturated with (supposedly rare) magickal characters.

I think the assumption was that if you let everyone congregate, it'd turn into a cuddle-puddle, but that's doing a disservice to the amazing conflict and social/political roleplay I've seen out of certain eras of gemmed mages. Throwing everyone together isn't going to result in lifelong best friends, though it may result in character collaboration and cooperation - those things don't have to be done with a smile and a song.

Mages need to be comfortable with solo roleplay, but they also need (want, hope) to interact and cross storylines with others.
"There are no happy endings, because nothing ends." - Schmendrick

nauta

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Re: Gemmed Temples Idea
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2015, 01:04:50 PM »
Mages need to be comfortable with solo roleplay, but they also need (want, hope) to interact and cross storylines with others.

I actually think the current layout establishes the right balance - it allows you a private spot to escape (temples/apartments) and a public spot to meet (Den).  There's a lot of political stuff among the gemmed, and the Oash/AoD/Guild plotlines seep into the Quarter.  I admit I was a little frustrated by how underdocumented "temple life" is too, but this just leaves room for PCs to invent the atmosphere together.

One thing that I've noticed is that the plots that gemmed tend to get involved in are what you might call tool-for-the-job plots (which, I guess is supported by the docs): the gick gets helicoptered into the plot, gets told to cast a spell, then helicoptered out of the plot, never really seeing those involved again.

as IF you didn't just have them unconscious, naked, and helpless in the street 4 minutes ago

Delirium

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Re: Gemmed Temples Idea
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2015, 01:14:26 PM »
Well, you can fix that with a little ingenuity and usefulness - but the role of a gemmed is very much a behind the scenes support role.

Gemmed are tools. Particularly useful tools might be used more often. Particularly flexible, creative tools might be used in more situations.

You are what you make of yourself, but never forget: matter how valuable the tool, another one can always be found.

I found it to be an interesting challenge - coming up with ways to keep your superiors pleased and willing to keep you around.
"There are no happy endings, because nothing ends." - Schmendrick

wizturbo

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Re: Gemmed Temples Idea
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2015, 01:37:30 PM »
Many Gemmed are helicoptered in and out of plots because they hold up in their Temple and aren't particularly useful for anything except their spell list.  They don't know what's going on in the world, don't know many people, and thus are shut out of many player driven plots by default.  If you view your character like a spell toolbox, don't be surprised if people treat them that way.   If you want to be included, get out there and interact! 

Delirium

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Re: Gemmed Temples Idea
« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2015, 01:51:14 PM »
"Get out there and interact" is a bit simplifying it - they have to interact in a very behind the scenes way, to avoid pissing off players and staff alike. Gemmed *are* tools of the templarate, though that's not to mean they should treat their character as nothing but a toolset of skills.

Interact, yes, interact mindfully to avoid over-saturating the game with magick and to reinforce your character's place in the world - yes.

A gemmed is a challenging role, though the reward is that you can get yourself involved in high-level things which most mundanes cannot.
"There are no happy endings, because nothing ends." - Schmendrick

wizturbo

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Re: Gemmed Temples Idea
« Reply #16 on: May 19, 2015, 01:57:49 PM »
Interact, yes, interact mindfully to avoid over-saturating the game with magick and to reinforce your character's place in the world - yes.

I guess what my post was trying to encourage was to get out there and interact in a non-magicky way.  Make friends (pro-tip, not all friendships have to be overt.  Plenty of people may secretly be willing to deal with a Gemmed, but would absolutely refuse in public).  Travel.  Learn things that are useful that may not have a coded skill behind them.  It is a challenging role, that's for sure, but it doesn't have to be nearly as isolated as people think.

Delirium

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Re: Gemmed Temples Idea
« Reply #17 on: May 19, 2015, 02:03:16 PM »
Okay, so we're saying the same thing, just in different ways!
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FantasyWriter

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Re: Gemmed Temples Idea
« Reply #18 on: May 19, 2015, 08:26:16 PM »
Players' perceptions of/opinions about/arguments over gemmed elementalists on the GDB is probably the reason I don't play gemmed elementalists.
No one ever think's you're 'doing it right.'
You're either spam casting, sitting in bars too much, trying to get people to like you too much, being too reclusive to be a contributive character, being too much of an asshole, being too nice, being too uppity, spend all your time mudsexxing, are overpowered, get too much templar attention, don't get enough templar abuse, and on and on and on and on.

That said, I did have a really good time as a gemmer.... once. Because he wasn't human (dwarf), it separated him in a way that seems easier than being an elementalist, but I believe that was at a time where I decided to completely forgo the GDB.
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Agent_137

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Re: Gemmed Temples Idea
« Reply #19 on: May 19, 2015, 10:32:31 PM »
Players' perceptions of/opinions about/arguments over gemmed elementalists on the GDB is probably the reason I don't play gemmed elementalists.
No one ever think's you're 'doing it right.'
You're either spam casting, sitting in bars too much, trying to get people to like you too much, being too reclusive to be a contributive character, being too much of an asshole, being too nice, being too uppity, spend all your time mudsexxing, are overpowered, get too much templar attention, don't get enough templar abuse, and on and on and on and on.

That said, I did have a really good time as a gemmer.... once. Because he wasn't human (dwarf), it separated him in a way that seems easier than being an elementalist, but I believe that was at a time where I decided to completely forgo the GDB.

Yeah i think the key is your last point. If i've learned anything about this game over the years, is that it's the most fun when you ignore the GDB (except for clan forums) and focus on your character and the docs.

that said, i love the GDB when i'm not playing.


Molten Heart

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Re: Gemmed Temples Idea
« Reply #20 on: May 19, 2015, 10:52:37 PM »
I believe the Council of Allanaki Mages was intended to serve a few of these spot but somewhere along the way went beyond and became sort mercenary group made up of elementalists. I think it'd be cool if there were some form of elementalists community center where mages got together and did social things. The primary concern being they'd eventually group up into a powerful group, which is fine as long as those elementalists splinter off into their own group and don't co-op the elementalists quarter's community/resources and re-purpose them to their own ends, even if it takes a templar stepping in and saying "Easy now... we don't need another volcano eruptin, or something worse..... But when we do, well send you to Tuluk."

HavokBlue

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Re: Gemmed Temples Idea
« Reply #21 on: May 19, 2015, 11:12:05 PM »
when i think of a gemmed community center

Code: [Select]
The sun-burnt, krath-haired man asks, in sirihish:
     "Alright guys, who's ready for game night?"

The slender, wind-tossed youth says, in sirihish:
     "Did you remember the izdari set this time?"

The stone-faced, granite-haired man says, in sirihish:
     "It was your turn to bring the izdari set!"

The pale, drov-eyed man shifts uncomfortably in the back corner.

In a hushed tone, the pale, drov-eyed man says, in sirihish:
     "I wanted to play Tek's Tower this time..."
All the world will be your enemy. When they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you; digger, listener, runner, Prince with the swift warning. Be cunning, and full of tricks, and your people will never be destroyed.

nauta

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Re: Gemmed Temples Idea
« Reply #22 on: May 19, 2015, 11:13:32 PM »
when i think of a gemmed community center

Code: [Select]
The sun-burnt, krath-haired man asks, in sirihish:
     "Alright guys, who's ready for game night?"

The slender, wind-tossed youth says, in sirihish:
     "Did you remember the izdari set this time?"

The stone-faced, granite-haired man says, in sirihish:
     "It was your turn to bring the izdari set!"

The pale, drov-eyed man shifts uncomfortably in the back corner.

In a hushed tone, the pale, drov-eyed man says, in sirihish:
     "I wanted to play Tek's Tower this time..."

Hey!  Keep the IC stuff off the GDB!
as IF you didn't just have them unconscious, naked, and helpless in the street 4 minutes ago

Fathi

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Re: Gemmed Temples Idea
« Reply #23 on: May 20, 2015, 03:12:29 AM »
From an OOC perspective I think it's a good thing that there isn't an official Gemmed Clan with leaders to teach people and other stuff. Maybe that wouldn't be so unfeasible now that Allanak is the main playable city, but I think minimising the number of clans that require leader roles or sponsored roles is a good thing. If the gemmed were like the Byn and everything had to go through a 'Sergeant' type I could see how that would be really frustrating for players of templars and players of gemmed who don't play when the leader does.

I know that isn't exactly what OP suggested, but in the past, that was how the Council of Mages "leaders" tended to start acting once they'd been around a while. I remember being asked to hold off on an unscheduled spontaneous multi-clan event because the "master firemage" wasn't around, so the PC Krathis who were online didn't think they were allowed to participate.

Even if a "mentor" type role was established, I don't think it would be too long before we saw people try to treat it as more than that. Not because players are power hungry jerks or anything, but because it's very natural for PCs to defer to the more experienced character and start to treat them as more of a leader than they are.

I may be miss-remembering, but I could have sworn the reason for keeping the elemental temples separated is/was per Staff policy of some sort.  Maybe it was just a Staff member chiming in with their own, personal explanation...Anyway!  Keeping all the gemmed in a single location would make it too easy to remain segregated from the rest of the playerbase.  Gemmed are supposed to be an iso role, but darn it!  Get out of the Quarter and be the source of loathing/fear/social-stigma and shunning/whipping boy for everyone else!

Since I can't pinpoint the source, I take back what I said about this being Staff policy; I do not want to do them a disservice.  This view is more than likely my own impressions as to why the temples are not consolidated.  It doesn't really make the role that appealing for those who might enjoy social role-play beyond being the outcast, and I sympathize, but not every role is for everyone.

I got told to stop chilling out in the Vivaduan temple as a newb fire mage because according to the docs fire and water are opposing elements and my character would have been uncomfortable there. That didn't even occur to me at the time because literally every magicker hung out at the Vivaduan temple like 100% of the time. Is that maybe what you're remembering?

--

IC-wise, I don't think the templarate would want gemmed mages organising themselves much. There are plenty of instances in game history of gemmed groups trying to (or succeeding at) murdering templars or "beloved" and "loyal" mages turning on the templarate for money or power or out of some perceived slight. While the gemmed are very much a tool that the templarate uses because they are beneficial, I think the templarate also uses them to foster loyalty and keep them in check. I can't speak for staff's opinion on what the higher reaches of the templarate would think, but on the Blue Robe level I think keeping your mages from getting too buddy-buddy with each other is a concern.
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Beethoven

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Re: Gemmed Temples Idea
« Reply #24 on: May 20, 2015, 07:23:40 AM »
Are fire and water supposed to be opposed according to the docs? I mean, it sounds right, but I thought I remembered that the helpfiles said fire and shadow were the ones that don't get along.