Author Topic: Widespread Literacy (The Way sub-idea)  (Read 16059 times)

Patuk

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Re: Widespread Literacy (The Way sub-idea)
« Reply #25 on: June 25, 2014, 05:55:03 PM »
I have a solution. A glorious solution.

Elves.

Humans have it better than elves do, sirihish is a language everyone speaks, and one of which the writing the templarate can crack down on.

Elves do not have such issues.

 - Allundean is not a language under the templarate's 'control.' Sirihish isn't spoken by the free, whereas there are many, many elves with no sorceror-king to bow to.

 - Elves are a tribal peoples who are prone to being shifty and distrustful of outsiders. To devise a language on your own is hard, but for a family of people to do so is doable. Knowing you'll have each other's backs and being able to cover your secret language is an added bonus.

 - Elves don't have as much to lose as humans do, and are much too proud for their own good. It is in-character for them to elevate themselves above the human filth by knowing to read.

Fuck cavilish, fuck sirihish, and all your other languages. Screw the idea of entire ruling classes overturning thousand-year traditions. Have these people wrest control of literacy themselves.
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Fujikoma

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Re: Widespread Literacy (The Way sub-idea)
« Reply #26 on: June 25, 2014, 05:59:38 PM »
I have a solution. A glorious solution.

Elves.

Humans have it better than elves do, sirihish is a language everyone speaks, and one of which the writing the templarate can crack down on.

Elves do not have such issues.

 - Allundean is not a language under the templarate's 'control.' Sirihish isn't spoken by the free, whereas there are many, many elves with no sorceror-king to bow to.

 - Elves are a tribal peoples who are prone to being shifty and distrustful of outsiders. To devise a language on your own is hard, but for a family of people to do so is doable. Knowing you'll have each other's backs and being able to cover your secret language is an added bonus.

 - Elves don't have as much to lose as humans do, and are much too proud for their own good. It is in-character for them to elevate themselves above the human filth by knowing to read.

Fuck cavilish, fuck sirihish, and all your other languages. Screw the idea of entire ruling classes overturning thousand-year traditions. Have these people wrest control of literacy themselves.

FUCK YEEEEAAAAAAH!!!
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valeria

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Re: Widespread Literacy (The Way sub-idea)
« Reply #27 on: June 25, 2014, 06:01:25 PM »
I don't approve of widespread literacy.  Less cloistered literacy, sure.  It could be done by expanding access to written Cavilish (which is not actually a "writing system").  But I definitely wouldn't approve of literacy for the masses.  Absolutely not.  Doesn't feel Zalanthan to me.
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Patuk

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Re: Widespread Literacy (The Way sub-idea)
« Reply #28 on: June 25, 2014, 06:02:30 PM »
Sweet mother of pageroll, you have never treated me as well as you have today, and for that I thank thee.
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HavokBlue

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Re: Widespread Literacy (The Way sub-idea)
« Reply #29 on: June 25, 2014, 06:07:42 PM »
I've always wondered why desert elves don't get RW allundean.
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BadSkeelz

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Re: Widespread Literacy (The Way sub-idea)
« Reply #30 on: June 25, 2014, 06:10:01 PM »
For what it's worth, the gith apparently have the strongest writing tradition in the Known, having developed in response to short lifespans and harsh conditions. So I wouldn't be too terribly surprised to see elves pulling similar tricks.

I don't think widespread literacy should be legal for the masses. I do think there is room for underground literacy to exist. I also strongly suspect that the means for accomplishing this are already in the game.
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Patuk

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Re: Widespread Literacy (The Way sub-idea)
« Reply #31 on: June 25, 2014, 06:15:39 PM »
I could write another thread-assay on the subject like I have about armies before, but I'd rather keep it brief.

Historically, writing developed in urban societies rather than agricultural or nomadic ones, due to the added emphasis on logistics, services and trade.

Delves are not urban, they are nomadic.

That said, for none of them at all to be able to write is doubtful as well, and is something I'd love to see altered.
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BadSkeelz

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Re: Widespread Literacy (The Way sub-idea)
« Reply #32 on: June 25, 2014, 07:26:23 PM »
Let me amend my previous statement to "I'd not be surprised to see City elves pulling similar tricks."
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HavokBlue

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Re: Widespread Literacy (The Way sub-idea)
« Reply #33 on: June 25, 2014, 07:58:31 PM »
what city elves

badum-tish
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Desertman

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Re: Widespread Literacy (The Way sub-idea)
« Reply #34 on: June 25, 2014, 08:23:20 PM »
I see nothing that would be lost with implementing more common literacy and Desertman's proposal for the Way to be limited by distance.

I see many things that could be gained from them.

Why not? Could someone tell me why not?

This is kind of my argument too.

I don't see any negatives. I see a lot of potential for new and interesting things/situations/concepts. I can't think of anything about it that says, "This would ruin the game." or, "That would destroy my ability to A/B/C.".
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Armaddict

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Re: Widespread Literacy (The Way sub-idea)
« Reply #35 on: June 25, 2014, 10:54:42 PM »
I'm on the fence.  Like I said in RAT, not really sold on it, but I am not against it, either.

I like the idea of communication becoming more limited.  I like that messages might -actually- be intercepted, and I like the idea of dark hand-off meetings.  I like the idea of being able to hide out in deep wilderness without everyone knowing you're still alive.  I like the idea of being able to disappear.  I like the idea, pretty much.

Problem is...after this long, I still feel kinda like ShaLeah over there, where I'm so used to it being the way it is that the change seems kinda wrong, somehow.

However...writing is underutilized as is.  Even between nobles and templars.  The Way...just too efficient and easy.
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Reiloth

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Re: Widespread Literacy (The Way sub-idea)
« Reply #36 on: June 25, 2014, 11:17:10 PM »
What I said on the RAT was that I like the idea of the Way becoming harder to use with more distance between you and the target, to the point of not working.

I don't really like the idea of wide-spread literacy.

The lack of literacy provides immediate control by the Templarate over its subjects, both in Allanak and in Tuluk. History and truth become subjective. What one person says is 'fact' becomes 'legend' and more importantly, 'myth'.

By making literacy widespread, you have the ability to dissent. This is something the Templarates have seemed to not want, and for good reason.

I don't think that doesn't allow for some wiggle room -- Rogue literacy sounds like a cool concept. But I don't like the idea of it being 'wide spread'. As a facet that can be included in a special app, or given to prestigious scribe slaves/employees...That makes sense. And if the Templarate finds out you leaked that precious, precious knowledge...Say goodbye.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2014, 11:19:30 PM by Reiloth »
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Molten Heart

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Re: Widespread Literacy (The Way sub-idea)
« Reply #37 on: June 26, 2014, 12:10:47 AM »
Limiting the range of using the Way to contact someone is a good idea.

Sometimes one would use written communication instead of using the Way for more sensitive details, even if it'd be easier.  Sometimes the intended recipient isn't online at the same time.  Written communication would be useful here for clans leaders to exchange notes and for bosses to give underlings orders.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2014, 09:28:56 AM by Molten Heart »

QuillDipper

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Re: Widespread Literacy (The Way sub-idea)
« Reply #38 on: June 26, 2014, 12:16:48 AM »
It'd be kind of hilarious if sometimes you just kind of picked up other people's Way messages, like a radio.
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bracken

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Re: Widespread Literacy (The Way sub-idea)
« Reply #39 on: June 26, 2014, 04:11:48 AM »
On the game side, I like the idea of limiting the way, and using messengers to carry messages, either in their heads or on paper. The way does feel too much like a cell phone , sometimes.

The way however exists for OOC reasons.  The reality is, we do need to speed things up to make it playable. The nightmare that comes to mind is trying to organize a Byn contract  when the clients are the other side of the Known. Though this is possible to do through PMs, I think  it is still preferable to negotiate  and abuse mind to  mind.


I approve of more illegal literacy, though there  seems to be a suggestion that all we need is more literacy seeking stumps  in game to be the change.
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Patuk

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Re: Widespread Literacy (The Way sub-idea)
« Reply #40 on: June 26, 2014, 05:21:06 AM »
I kinda think these ideas need to be addedin conjunction with each other in order to work.

Without extra literacy, limiting Way distance becomes an annoyance more than anything.

Without limiting Way distance, extra literacy is both ICly and OOCly unnecessary.

If you add more literacy, the cons of limiting Way distance become less pronounced, as it'll be possible to deliver messages.

If you limit Way distance, more literacy becomes useful, since something to replace theultra-safe system that is the Way will be needed.

Also, elves.
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Redheart

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Re: Widespread Literacy (The Way sub-idea)
« Reply #41 on: June 26, 2014, 07:27:54 AM »
Something that I was thinking about that I don't know if was mentioned in DMan or anyone else's ideas... I think in combination with the limited regional way the further away someone is the harder it is to contact, even if you have the skill on master. Then once waying say you're in tuluk and the other person is in Luirs, the more stun points it uses to way back and forth with someone that is at the far end of the regional range from where you are. And then also perhaps there would be some interference... Words or letters from words lost in a difficult, faraway communication. Kinda like a scribble that's been sitting for a little bit.

Desertman

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Re: Widespread Literacy (The Way sub-idea)
« Reply #42 on: June 26, 2014, 10:04:29 AM »
The way however exists for OOC reasons.  The reality is, we do need to speed things up to make it playable. The nightmare that comes to mind is trying to organize a Byn contract  when the clients are the other side of the Known. Though this is possible to do through PMs, I think  it is still preferable to negotiate  and abuse mind to  mind.

The Faithful Lord/Chosen Lady says to the dusty courier, "I need you to ride down to Allanak, or one of the villages outside of Allanak and either find the Byn Sergeant's mind or deliver this message to him in person. I need to speak with him about a contract. Here's some coins for your service."

Problem solved. Suddenly what would have been a instant-cellphone-Way-message has now become an actual mission/task for another player handed out by a Templar or a noble.

I see only gains.
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Desertman

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Re: Widespread Literacy (The Way sub-idea)
« Reply #43 on: June 26, 2014, 10:07:43 AM »
Something that I was thinking about that I don't know if was mentioned in DMan or anyone else's ideas... I think in combination with the limited regional way the further away someone is the harder it is to contact, even if you have the skill on master. Then once waying say you're in tuluk and the other person is in Luirs, the more stun points it uses to way back and forth with someone that is at the far end of the regional range from where you are. And then also perhaps there would be some interference... Words or letters from words lost in a difficult, faraway communication. Kinda like a scribble that's been sitting for a little bit.

I do believe this has already been changed. If they are further away, it is harder to contact them.

However, once you have mastered The Way (which everyone does by five days play typically if they aren't a social hermit), I don't really ever see any issues finding their minds. It still works almost every time even if they are across the Known.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2014, 10:18:22 AM by Desertman »
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The7DeadlyVenomz

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Re: Widespread Literacy (The Way sub-idea)
« Reply #44 on: June 26, 2014, 10:13:32 AM »
The way however exists for OOC reasons.  The reality is, we do need to speed things up to make it playable. The nightmare that comes to mind is trying to organize a Byn contract  when the clients are the other side of the Known. Though this is possible to do through PMs, I think  it is still preferable to negotiate  and abuse mind to  mind.

The Faithful Lord/Chosen Lady says to the dusty courier, "I need you to ride down to Allanak, or one of the villages outside of Allanak and either find the Byn Sergeant's mind or deliver this message to him in person. I need to speak with him about a contract. Here's some coins for your service."

Problem solved. Suddenly what would have been a instant-cellphone-Way-message has now become an actual mission/task for another player handed out by a Templar or a noble.

I see only gains.
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Molten Heart

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Re: Widespread Literacy (The Way sub-idea)
« Reply #45 on: June 26, 2014, 10:53:36 AM »
On the game side, I like the idea of limiting the way, and using messengers to carry messages, either in their heads or on paper. The way does feel too much like a cell phone , sometimes.

The way however exists for OOC reasons.  The reality is, we do need to speed things up to make it playable. The nightmare that comes to mind is trying to organize a Byn contract  when the clients are the other side of the Known. Though this is possible to do through PMs, I think  it is still preferable to negotiate  and abuse mind to  mind.


I approve of more illegal literacy, though there  seems to be a suggestion that all we need is more literacy seeking stumps  in game to be the change.

It'd open up a legitimate role for messengers (as others have said).  They could station themselves in Luir's, making themselves readily available and in range of those of both city states.

Desertman

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Re: Widespread Literacy (The Way sub-idea)
« Reply #46 on: June 26, 2014, 11:01:33 AM »
On the game side, I like the idea of limiting the way, and using messengers to carry messages, either in their heads or on paper. The way does feel too much like a cell phone , sometimes.

The way however exists for OOC reasons.  The reality is, we do need to speed things up to make it playable. The nightmare that comes to mind is trying to organize a Byn contract  when the clients are the other side of the Known. Though this is possible to do through PMs, I think  it is still preferable to negotiate  and abuse mind to  mind.


I approve of more illegal literacy, though there  seems to be a suggestion that all we need is more literacy seeking stumps  in game to be the change.

It'd open up a legitimate role for messengers (as others have said).  They could station themselves in Luir's, making themselves readily available and in range of those of both city states.

It would open up a lot of things.

Messages would have to be carried between cities. This is a given.

Someone has to guard those messengers. Suddenly there are more escorts happening.

Someone has to guard those spies.

Someone has to find out what happened to that messenger who fell between cities, and of course, get that secret scroll containing all of muh sekrits back!

Someone has to kill that messenger who decided to change sides with my secret messages in hand! Damn him/her!

Someone has to ride out into the distant wilderness where that traitor is rumored to have disappeared to and confirm if they are actually there, or if they are actually dead.

Someone has to be that raider who occasionally rides in from the distant wastes where his camp is at to raid before disappearing back out there, where nobody can find his mind eighty five times a day to confirm if he still alive to keep hunting him.

Someone has to take that aide that changed sides and committed treason out to a remote location and occasionally bring them supplies and keep them hidden until everyone forgets they existed and they won't just be able to use The Way to keep stalking them until their death.

Someone has to do a lot of things and create a lot of roleplay and plotlines that currently just don't exist because we all have super-instant-smartphones-in-our-heads that work throughout the Known without fail.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2014, 11:04:49 AM by Desertman »
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Barsook

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Re: Widespread Literacy (The Way sub-idea)
« Reply #47 on: June 26, 2014, 11:02:57 AM »
Indeed, more plot elements can be created.

Desertman

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Re: Widespread Literacy (The Way sub-idea)
« Reply #48 on: June 26, 2014, 11:44:24 AM »
You know that scene with Gage Gritshaw and Sharlo Kadius torturing that woman? (The log is in the submissions.)

All of that happened apparently because one scroll that was written by someone got intercepted/lost and Sharlo Kadius was trying to get it back/find out what happened to it.

Imagine if messages were constantly sent that way instead of just being "magic insta-Wayed" for everything.
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Desertman

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Re: Widespread Literacy (The Way sub-idea)
« Reply #49 on: June 26, 2014, 11:49:59 AM »
I also recall being paid once to carry a message from a certain merchant House in the north to a noble House in Allanak in regards to happenings during the Copper War.

I have no idea what was in that message. But it was apparently extremely important as the noble House in question started marching out in the next couple of IC days after.

I will never forget that. Even though I didn't really do anything, I played an important part in whatever was going on there and it was great.
My phone now autocorrects "damn" to Dman.
The young daughter has been filled.