Author Topic: Widespread Literacy (The Way sub-idea)  (Read 13557 times)

Desertman

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Widespread Literacy (The Way sub-idea)
« on: June 25, 2014, 02:14:06 PM »
Giving this its own thread since everyone seemed to like the concept and it was recommended that it should be given its own post not in the RAT thread.


Going in another direction here.

When are we going to see more widespread literacy in Armageddon?

I know it was going to be a feature more readily available to the common classes in the 2.0 discussions of yore.

I think it would add a lot to the game and make for a lot of interesting situations.

I would love to see the following:

Introduction of widespread literacy.

The Way:

Someone in Allanak can contact most everyone in Allanak and in the deserts surrounding Allanak. Maybe as far as Redstorm but not quiet as far as Luir's.

Someone in Tuluk could contact everyone Tuluk and the surrounding scrub/forests near Tuluk, but not quite all of the way to Luir's.

Newbies who need to get in touch with employers etc in their city would still be able to. Friends who want to meet for drinks/talks would still be able to. It would really just do away with the "instant-message across the entire world" concept.

That sort of change.

It would let people who need to meet up with each other easily communicate meeting up with each other, but also create a system that promotes the idea of couriers and written letters etc...

... and allow people to actually disappear, if they flee far enough into the wastes... no more "gee I wonder if Amos is still alive, >contact Amos"

Would make things smoother on a continuity level, too. "Oh, yeah, I was traveling with my gang way out yonder, that's why you couldn't find me last week."

The most compelling argument, for me, is wondering just how many IC stories are lost because nobody can tell them. What if they were more often and easily found IC?

plus I want to play Croaker from the Black Company.

I like that Way idea.

These are good ideas.  I like the idea of geographical or regional limitations to the Way.  It would make spying for another city state -way- more difficult, too - you'd actually have to travel to deliver messages to your employer.  Or write encrypted letters (I am also for more widespread literacy).

I'm so with this all. So with it.

I love the idea of Way changes. Messengers and people disappearing would actually be a thing, and the value of psionicists might increase a bit as well, seeing as I imagine they'd not have these limitations apply to them.

Absolutely yes! It could be introduced this way too; sale of the right to commoners. Say it's not officially legal, but some commoner who has served his city well and can pay a fee of ten large to some templar or noble sponsor can learn to read and have it overlooked as long as it isn't flaunted around too much.

I just realized if we had widespread literacy....we could actually have people who make a living as authors, in game...

You could actually write and sell books, in Zalanthas.

I know that has to appeal to about 90% of you.

Poets too.

Could you imagine finding journals.

Deep caves with skeletons and tiny books that have some long lived PC's entire tale written out.

Maybe this could be the next chapter of the Known's History.  Mass learning how to read and write takes over!

Short of the templarates killing you (which should happen anyway in the struggle for Literacy), is there anything really stopping this from occurring now? Isn't literacy a skill that can be taught like any other? A few rogue scribes could get this ball rolling.

That would be fun, if it became more prominent while still being heretical. Allanak could have book burnings, apartment busts for treasonous material, ect.

Edit: Not that there isn't treasonous items already but, I mean, books would be a bit more spy/traitorish than spice or something.

New focus: Teach the rest of the Known how to read/write

Could you imagine finding journals.

Deep caves with skeletons and tiny books that have some long lived PC's entire tale written out.

I really dig this. When your PC dies you could have the option to drop your journal or not. Which would contain the bios that you've written for your character... and everyone has at least one, which is their initial background. Would also provide more player pay-off for spending the time writing bios and could perhaps get more people into writing bios at all or at least regularly. Or, if releasing your bios to the Known upon your pc's death is something is not a popular notion, another option could be to have a separate journal option, like bios, that you can enter from the website, this way you could put in your journal exactly what you would want others to know upon your pc's death.

Edit: Just thinking about this gives me tons of ideas for playability and plots and things. What's in your journal doesn't have to necessarily be truthful ;) and even things such as treasure "maps" and cryptic messages can be written into them.

I dig this too!

I took the liberty of grabbing all posts/replies to the original topic and putting them here for any further discussion.
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Fujikoma

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Re: Widespread Literacy (The Way sub-idea)
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2014, 03:04:28 PM »
First they're demanding literacy! Next thing you know, freedom of the press! I'm telling you, Lord Amos Fale, if we don't keep the common man down and in his proper place, we're in for a world of shit!
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QuillDipper

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Re: Widespread Literacy (The Way sub-idea)
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2014, 03:06:31 PM »
I like the idea of the journal entry thing dropped on death, but only if it's an OOC concept. Real journals read ICly should be written ICly.
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Re: Widespread Literacy (The Way sub-idea)
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2014, 03:08:19 PM »
I don't like it.
And then I sat there going "really? that was it? that's so stupid."

I still think the best closure you get in Armageddon is just moving on to the next character.

lordcooper

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Re: Widespread Literacy (The Way sub-idea)
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2014, 03:25:00 PM »
I feel that widespread literacy would serve to empower commoners too much.  It'd naturally lead to greater technological innovations and scientific understanding.  We don't need no industrial revolution.


http://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/28ngyt/til_it_took_early_humans_110000_generations_of/
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ShaLeah

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Re: Widespread Literacy (The Way sub-idea)
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2014, 03:32:27 PM »
This doesn't feel Zalanthas to me. I dislike these ideas.
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Molten Heart

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Re: Widespread Literacy (The Way sub-idea)
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2014, 03:34:51 PM »
I feel that widespread literacy would serve to empower commoners too much.  It'd naturally lead to greater technological innovations and scientific understanding.  We don't need no industrial revolution.


http://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/28ngyt/til_it_took_early_humans_110000_generations_of/

Or more so, what if texts detailing sorcerery became available.  We don't need no sorcerer revolution.  Think of the carnage..... think of children.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2014, 03:36:36 PM by Molten Heart »

Patuk

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Re: Widespread Literacy (The Way sub-idea)
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2014, 03:38:45 PM »
I feel that widespread literacy would serve to empower commoners too much.  It'd naturally lead to greater technological innovations and scientific understanding.  We don't need no industrial revolution.


http://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/28ngyt/til_it_took_early_humans_110000_generations_of/

This article uses the post ergo propter fallacy. Also, Zalanthas has literacy just fine. Come up with something better.
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Molten Heart

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Re: Widespread Literacy (The Way sub-idea)
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2014, 03:41:10 PM »
It'd be cool if maybe literacy were not illegal in at least one of the city states.  Maybe in Tuluk, making those there more educated as a whole, but only with the 'right kind of education'.  Also, scrolls and texts might make a good hiding place for secret and clandestine things.  Restrict literacy to something only citizens can posses, just an idea.

Molten Heart

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Re: Widespread Literacy (The Way sub-idea)
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2014, 03:55:35 PM »
All I'd ever use widespread literacy for is to draw a bunch of ASCII dicks on parchment scrolls and leave them all over the city.

#sorrynotsorry

You have scribble for that! (And honestly, it's probably not that unrealistic, but I have a feeling staff might not adore the idea)

Some kind of subversive literature or something goes contrary to supporting the ruling class is going to cause controversy.  IMO controversy is good.  It's not like the template wouldn't (on an OOC level) enjoy rooting this kind of thing out.  And short of a printing press or a room full of scribes churning out copies, a single or small number of subversive documents aren't going to get much circulation before being destroyed.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2014, 04:42:39 PM by Molten Heart »

Desertman

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Re: Widespread Literacy (The Way sub-idea)
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2014, 04:03:45 PM »
This doesn't feel Zalanthas to me. I dislike these ideas.

If it had always been in, it would.

It hasn't always been in, so it doesn't.

Change is scary.
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Desertman

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Re: Widespread Literacy (The Way sub-idea)
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2014, 04:04:42 PM »
I feel that widespread literacy would serve to empower commoners too much.  It'd naturally lead to greater technological innovations and scientific understanding.  We don't need no industrial revolution.


http://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/28ngyt/til_it_took_early_humans_110000_generations_of/

You have to remember, we have an entire staff devoted to making sure things don't get out of hand. Take your "early humans", and implement blocks like, "There are only about 300 of them, and they are being watched over by a handful of IMM's who will not allow this to happen.", then see if the science/history would still hold true.

If they don't want this to lead to an industrial revolution, it won't. It isn't that they would have to actively prevent it. It is that they would be required to do things to even make it codedly/ic'ly happen. All they would have to do, is not do those things for the players who might be attempting it.

It's that simple.
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Desertman

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Re: Widespread Literacy (The Way sub-idea)
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2014, 04:08:43 PM »
I feel that widespread literacy would serve to empower commoners too much.  It'd naturally lead to greater technological innovations and scientific understanding.  We don't need no industrial revolution.


http://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/28ngyt/til_it_took_early_humans_110000_generations_of/

Or more so, what if texts detailing sorcerery became available.  We don't need no sorcerer revolution.  Think of the carnage..... think of children.

It would be kind of fun for Templars and soldiers to actively stamp that out.

I think this is actually an argument "for" widespread literacy, as that sounds like some awesome interaction.
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Re: Widespread Literacy (The Way sub-idea)
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2014, 04:11:45 PM »
Man I honestly just cannot see this being used for more than passing middle school notes between aides.

Sorry, I've lost my faith in players creating drama that isn't borderline Gossip Girl.
And then I sat there going "really? that was it? that's so stupid."

I still think the best closure you get in Armageddon is just moving on to the next character.

Fujikoma

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Re: Widespread Literacy (The Way sub-idea)
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2014, 04:12:44 PM »
I think it's a wonderful idea. Too many stories simply vanish because there's no one to tell them.

EDIT:
Man I honestly just cannot see this being used for more than passing middle school notes between aides.

Sorry, I've lost my faith in players creating drama that isn't borderline Gossip Girl.

Could have fun stamping this out, too.
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QuillDipper

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Re: Widespread Literacy (The Way sub-idea)
« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2014, 04:16:05 PM »
I don't think it should be common in the slightest.

I do think there should be more chances for something like illegal writings to happen or more a place for it as an issue that a city state's templars have to deal with.
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Re: Widespread Literacy (The Way sub-idea)
« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2014, 04:18:22 PM »
I think the older I get, the more I realize that most others in this playerbase prefer melodrama to drama. I hate it.
And then I sat there going "really? that was it? that's so stupid."

I still think the best closure you get in Armageddon is just moving on to the next character.

Desertman

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Re: Widespread Literacy (The Way sub-idea)
« Reply #17 on: June 25, 2014, 04:25:25 PM »
I'm afraid I just don't see what that has to do with this topic. I could just be missing it.

Have faith IF, there is drama out there. I promise. I will be more dramatic for you. I swear.
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Eyeball

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Re: Widespread Literacy (The Way sub-idea)
« Reply #18 on: June 25, 2014, 04:41:28 PM »
Why is literarcy illegal in Luir's, anyhow? Those merchants will sell anything for the right price.

Fujikoma

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Re: Widespread Literacy (The Way sub-idea)
« Reply #19 on: June 25, 2014, 04:42:37 PM »
Think of the poetry that would be inscribed on the walls of the Byn latrine.
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Dead elves can ride wheeled ladders just fine.
Quote from: bcw81
"You can never have your mountainhome because you can't grow a beard."
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Molten Heart

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Re: Widespread Literacy (The Way sub-idea)
« Reply #20 on: June 25, 2014, 04:57:44 PM »
If literacy were legal, it'd still be something for the privileged, it wouldn't just be limited to nobility.  I don't think the common person would really have a need to be literate, especially if others around them were.  They could just have things read to them or have someone write something for them if any real need arose.

What if literacy made more available to players right of character generation?  Maybe through extended subguilds or tacked on using CGPs (when that becomes available).  IC reasons would have to exist to explain their literacy (schooling, tutoring, unusual circumstances, etc).  If literacy were illegal, this ability would need to be kept secret (like sorcerey, mindbender abilities, and hidden elementalism).  If literacy were legal, this would be an easy way to have a literate character without going through the process of learning in game.

Desertman

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Re: Widespread Literacy (The Way sub-idea)
« Reply #21 on: June 25, 2014, 05:00:39 PM »
If literacy were legal, it'd still be something for the privileged, it wouldn't just be limited to nobility.  I don't think the common person would really have a need to be literate, especially if others around them were.  They could just have things read to them or have someone write something for them if any real need arose.

What if literacy made more available to players right of character generation?  Maybe through extended subguilds or tacked on using CGPs (when that becomes available).  IC reasons would have to exist to explain their literacy (schooling, tutoring, unusual circumstances, etc).  If literacy were illegal, this ability would need to be kept secret (like sorcerey, mindbender abilities, and hidden elementalism).  If literacy were legal, this would be an easy way to have a literate character without going through the process of learning in game.

I would like to see it as part of the CGP system. That would work well I think.

I think it would be "legal", but still only something those with the proper/privileged backgrounds would have access to.

Having it CGP restricted would also ensure the power to write things that stay permanently in the game world would not fall into the hands of newbs who are going to roam around writing stupid shit like Naruto fan fiction or something not applicable to the setting. (Though our playerbase is responsible enough that anything like that would just get junked upon discovery anyways. It wouldn't be game breaking.)
« Last Edit: June 25, 2014, 05:02:42 PM by Desertman »
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Cabooze

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Re: Widespread Literacy (The Way sub-idea)
« Reply #22 on: June 25, 2014, 05:23:01 PM »
Scholar extended subguild.

Is a master of all commonly known languages through research or teachings, be it legal or not. Starts with the 'literacy' skill at apprentice. Has a smattering knowledge of lesser-known languages such as Anyar and Heshrak. Later in their careers they are able to learn Tatlum, Kentu and after rigorous work, Nrizkt.

Eh? EH?!
« Last Edit: June 25, 2014, 05:24:34 PM by Cabooze »

HavokBlue

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Re: Widespread Literacy (The Way sub-idea)
« Reply #23 on: June 25, 2014, 05:40:31 PM »
For the record, literacy is not a blanket skill. Each language has it's own specific reading/writing skill.

A lot of what has been mentioned in this thread is represented/obtainable in game if you play your cards right.



That said, I think it would be neat if literacy remained illegal but was available as a CGP option.
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Re: Widespread Literacy (The Way sub-idea)
« Reply #24 on: June 25, 2014, 05:52:27 PM »
I see nothing that would be lost with implementing more common literacy and Desertman's proposal for the Way to be limited by distance.

I see many things that could be gained from them.

Why not? Could someone tell me why not?
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