Author Topic: Tuluki Shrinkinator / Tavern Restructuring Discussion  (Read 37240 times)

slvrmoontiger

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Re: Tuluki Shrinkinator / Tavern Restructuring Discussion
« Reply #75 on: May 09, 2014, 11:22:48 PM »
I honestly don't see what benefit this brings about. Shrinking Tuluk isn't going to change the fact that there are only about a dozen regular players in Tuluk and that is only during prime-time if your lucky. How is this going to inspire people to come to Tuluk? I don't see it happening. I think there should be better ways... Making half of the PC population in Tuluk nobles, really doesn't improve upon getting more people to play there. I keep asking when the number of PCs in Tuluk is going to increase and all I keep getting are response are that its being worked on. Now part of being worked on is dropping out some places that were quite nice to those of us used to playing in Tuluk. Dropping out things and putting a new shiny coat of paint on Tuluk isn't going to improve things its just going to confuse the people who are used to things.

Part of the reason I don't like playing in Tuluk is because it's too big.  I imagine other people feel the same way.  If Tuluk is smaller, more people will likely be interested in playing there.

Okay, color me confused by this response... But isn't Allanak a LOT bigger than Tuluk already? At least it always seemed that way to me... Part of the reason I hated Allanak was because it was too big.

I don't actually know how many rooms there are in nak vs how many there are in tuluk.  But the frequently populated areas of allanak are MUCH closer together, and in Tuluk I always felt vaguely depressed whenever I needed to go anywhere because I knew it would take so long and require so much spamwalking.  In Allanak I don't feel that way.  So yeah..this is a great change.

I don't know, I guess 'nak has changed since I was last there, but it always seemed like you had to go a great distance to get from one thing to another... You had to walk more than twenty rooms to get from the apartment to the market... And the market was at least a dozen rooms from the stables... Just seemed like a lot of walking... But like I said that was a long time ago... Close to a RL year ago that I was in 'nak. So maybe things have changed... The size was always an intimidating factory... I don't mind size for wilderness purposes but learning a city that you're trying to survive in shouldn't be that tough. Tuuk even after the crater was gone it didn't take that long to figure out where I needed to go for food and water and the like...

Speaking of food and water, I'm not sure if they post talking about the changes mentioned this... But I know that the Firestorm has a place to cook and if that gets taken away is something going to be available for places to cook or is everyone just going to sit around the Sanctuary eating fruits and raw meat?
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Malken

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Re: Tuluki Shrinkinator / Tavern Restructuring Discussion
« Reply #76 on: May 09, 2014, 11:33:39 PM »
Speaking of food and water, I'm not sure if they post talking about the changes mentioned this... But I know that the Firestorm has a place to cook and if that gets taken away is something going to be available for places to cook or is everyone just going to sit around the Sanctuary eating fruits and raw meat?

If your House doesn't offer one, I can think of two other firepits that will still be in the updated map and are available to anyone.

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The7DeadlyVenomz

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Re: Tuluki Shrinkinator / Tavern Restructuring Discussion
« Reply #77 on: May 09, 2014, 11:43:55 PM »
Aside from the Noble and Merchant Quarters being so far away from everything, and the Arena to a certian extent, Allanak is actually very compact. Moreover, with the exception of the routes to the Noble Quarter, there is stuff to see along the way, too.

I think Allanak could do with losing just a few rooms worth of road in the northern part of the city, where the Merchant and Noble Quarters are, but aside from that, Allanak is very close to perfect in terms of commute.

EDIT: I suppose you could shrink the Bazaar down too.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2014, 11:46:20 PM by The7DeadlyVenomz »
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slvrmoontiger

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Re: Tuluki Shrinkinator / Tavern Restructuring Discussion
« Reply #78 on: May 09, 2014, 11:44:11 PM »
Speaking of food and water, I'm not sure if they post talking about the changes mentioned this... But I know that the Firestorm has a place to cook and if that gets taken away is something going to be available for places to cook or is everyone just going to sit around the Sanctuary eating fruits and raw meat?

If your House doesn't offer one, I can think of two other firepits that will still be in the updated map and are available to anyone.

YOU SHALL PREVAIL.

Never mind I just re-read the staff announcement post and there's a cooking area off the middle-class tavern.

Where are the various apartment buildings going to be located... I mean the non-Warren's ones in particular... Like currently there are two south of the Tooth and one off from Dark Moon Road. From what this looks like is Dark Moon is going to be shortened or warped in some manner. Any sort of visualization for stuff like this would be helpful.

How long of a maintenance window are we looking at for Monday May 19? It will probably take longer than an hour for code hashing as well as walkthrough to make sure nothing is broken. Just wondering how long though.
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bracken

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Re: Tuluki Shrinkinator / Tavern Restructuring Discussion
« Reply #79 on: May 10, 2014, 12:26:20 AM »
I think it looks 90% wonderful. I'm sure it will have the desired affect. I just think you can have the same affect by moving the Firestorm to the new location rather than replacing it. Which is not as good as keeping it in the village but much better than losing it.


I'm totally with you there, Barz. I suppose we'll cry for a week and get over it.
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Old Kank

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Re: Tuluki Shrinkinator / Tavern Restructuring Discussion
« Reply #80 on: May 10, 2014, 12:33:11 AM »
Somewhere, beneath the scrublands, some of my characters just shat in their unmarked graves.

Sure, this is going to be a positive change for the playerbase, but it sounds like you guys are unnecessarily sweeping a lot of the player-driven history under the rug.

PCs fought and died for the Firestorm.  And the Old Quarter?  Let's not even talk about the Old Quarter.  The best part about Tuluk was its history.

And why does the Tooth still have brawling in a city that abhors public displays of violence?  I've never understood that one.

The7DeadlyVenomz

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Re: Tuluki Shrinkinator / Tavern Restructuring Discussion
« Reply #81 on: May 10, 2014, 12:45:19 AM »
Well, I would guess that's because brawling might be unseemly, but it's still brawling. It's just not going to get you a lot of fans.

I do agree with the old areas, though. I'd love to see anything major kept. If you have to put it behind a gate, in the Old Quarter's case, do so, but keep it. You'll find a use for it.
Wynning since October 25, 2008.

>craft newbie into good player

You accidentally snap newbie into useless pieces.


bracken

  • Posts: 168
Re: Tuluki Shrinkinator / Tavern Restructuring Discussion
« Reply #82 on: May 10, 2014, 12:48:28 AM »
Still thinking. The Red's still gets business, though it's a long way to walk, especially for its clientèle. Is a Pub in Friels truly out of the way? Close to the shopping.

No Barz. I don't want it shifted. That would warp reality and history too much.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2014, 12:52:19 AM by bracken »
That beauty and truth should pass utterly

RogueGunslinger

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Re: Tuluki Shrinkinator / Tavern Restructuring Discussion
« Reply #83 on: May 10, 2014, 12:54:12 AM »
I honestly don't see what benefit this brings about. Shrinking Tuluk isn't going to change the fact that there are only about a dozen regular players in Tuluk and that is only during prime-time if your lucky. How is this going to inspire people to come to Tuluk? I don't see it happening. I think there should be better ways... Making half of the PC population in Tuluk nobles, really doesn't improve upon getting more people to play there. I keep asking when the number of PCs in Tuluk is going to increase and all I keep getting are response are that its being worked on. Now part of being worked on is dropping out some places that were quite nice to those of us used to playing in Tuluk. Dropping out things and putting a new shiny coat of paint on Tuluk isn't going to improve things its just going to confuse the people who are used to things.

Part of the reason I don't like playing in Tuluk is because it's too big.  I imagine other people feel the same way.  If Tuluk is smaller, more people will likely be interested in playing there.

Okay, color me confused by this response... But isn't Allanak a LOT bigger than Tuluk already? At least it always seemed that way to me... Part of the reason I hated Allanak was because it was too big.

I don't actually know how many rooms there are in nak vs how many there are in tuluk.  But the frequently populated areas of allanak are MUCH closer together, and in Tuluk I always felt vaguely depressed whenever I needed to go anywhere because I knew it would take so long and require so much spamwalking.  In Allanak I don't feel that way.  So yeah..this is a great change.

I don't know, I guess 'nak has changed since I was last there, but it always seemed like you had to go a great distance to get from one thing to another... You had to walk more than twenty rooms to get from the apartment to the market... And the market was at least a dozen rooms from the stables... Just seemed like a lot of walking... But like I said that was a long time ago... Close to a RL year ago that I was in 'nak. So maybe things have changed... The size was always an intimidating factory... I don't mind size for wilderness purposes but learning a city that you're trying to survive in shouldn't be that tough. Tuuk even after the crater was gone it didn't take that long to figure out where I needed to go for food and water and the like...

Speaking of food and water, I'm not sure if they post talking about the changes mentioned this... But I know that the Firestorm has a place to cook and if that gets taken away is something going to be available for places to cook or is everyone just going to sit around the Sanctuary eating fruits and raw meat?

Nak is bigger than Tuluk, especially if you consider the Rinth, but not by a massive amount. It's also a lot denser, where Tuluk has a lot of long roads with nothing in-between. This, from what I can tell from the OP, eliminates the sprawled out nature of the city.

Nekhbet

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Re: Tuluki Shrinkinator / Tavern Restructuring Discussion
« Reply #84 on: May 10, 2014, 01:05:15 AM »
For clarification purposes only, the Firestorm Pub closing down is IC.

The resizing of the streets is OOC.

The7DeadlyVenomz

  • Posts: 8889
Re: Tuluki Shrinkinator / Tavern Restructuring Discussion
« Reply #85 on: May 10, 2014, 01:19:09 AM »
Thanks, Nekhbet, for a clarifying FIRST!!!! post.
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You accidentally snap newbie into useless pieces.


Dakota

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Re: Tuluki Shrinkinator / Tavern Restructuring Discussion
« Reply #86 on: May 10, 2014, 03:32:45 AM »
Over / Under UnderTuluk gets put back in, in some fashion?

Am I understanding that the warrens will be changed a bit in a different update?
Czar of City Elves.

bracken

  • Posts: 168
Re: Tuluki Shrinkinator / Tavern Restructuring Discussion
« Reply #87 on: May 10, 2014, 03:42:06 AM »
Thanks Nekhbet. Of course. I think Nyr mentioned that too. I'm sorry I overreacted at the thought of losing my precious realities.
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Dakota

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Re: Tuluki Shrinkinator / Tavern Restructuring Discussion
« Reply #88 on: May 10, 2014, 03:46:42 AM »
And why does the Tooth still have brawling in a city that abhors public displays of violence?  I've never understood that one.

b/c it gives some players hope that maybe one day a bar brawl in the ghetto will happen without the city going apeshit.
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Evilone

  • Posts: 523
Re: Tuluki Shrinkinator / Tavern Restructuring Discussion
« Reply #89 on: May 10, 2014, 04:44:22 AM »
Won't someone please think of the children!

Btw, I like the idea in theory. Can't wait to see if it works out IG. *fingers crossed*

Thanks for the work.
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slvrmoontiger

  • Posts: 1446
Re: Tuluki Shrinkinator / Tavern Restructuring Discussion
« Reply #90 on: May 10, 2014, 09:41:42 AM »
I'm not too happy about the changes. I will mean completely re-learning Tuluk, which will take a bit of time. I've grown accustomed to here's how far and what direction I need to walk in to get from here to there. Now I'm going to have to re-learn it and that might take more time than just walking the distance. Comments and feedback seem mostly positive, which holds promise. I hope this change brings in new players to Tuluk because just shortening up the distances between people isn't going to fix the problem of seeing 50 some odd players logged in besides myself and my character walks the stretch between public areas and only finds 3 other PCs to RP with. The only fix for that is more players to play Tuluk. If there population isn't there no matter how many shrinking of streets you do isn't going to change the fact that the populations ISN'T there. Time will only tell. I'm still looking forward to knowing where essential buildings are going to be like apartments and how to get to and from them to other places. As far as the population increasing only time will tell if this causes that to happen. I'm hoping it does.
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ShaLeah

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Re: Tuluki Shrinkinator / Tavern Restructuring Discussion
« Reply #91 on: May 10, 2014, 10:02:00 AM »
I know what will make Tuluk better!

The Highlord Tektolnes taking His rightful place again! Muahahahahaaaaaa!
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Thunkkin

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Re: Tuluki Shrinkinator / Tavern Restructuring Discussion
« Reply #92 on: May 10, 2014, 10:09:39 AM »
Righto! If the Firestorm is IC and the result of player plots and conflicts, then huzzah and onward! If it was an OOC thing, I was having trouble wrapping my brain around it.
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slvrmoontiger

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Re: Tuluki Shrinkinator / Tavern Restructuring Discussion
« Reply #93 on: May 10, 2014, 10:30:13 AM »
I know what will make Tuluk better!

The Highlord Tektolnes taking His rightful place again! Muahahahahaaaaaa!

NOT!
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Nyr

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Re: Tuluki Shrinkinator / Tavern Restructuring Discussion
« Reply #94 on: May 10, 2014, 10:35:07 AM »
Removing interesting little quirks seems to make the game generic and foreign, removing the nostalgia and fond memories I've had in these virtual places.

We'll have nostalgia in a few spots I think.
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Nyr

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Re: Tuluki Shrinkinator / Tavern Restructuring Discussion
« Reply #95 on: May 10, 2014, 10:38:52 AM »
Looking at the map, I do hope it won't be too confusing for newbies.  The smaller size will help.  But the North Road seems to let in directly (essentially) to the Red Sun Commons.  Rather than having a street lead into the heart of the town from gate, which is fairly easy to remember.

The Red Sun Commons will be the heart of the town.  Go north to get to your shops and the tribal market.  Go south to get to the Warrens.  And right down the north road, you'll see the Pyramid.  All roads lead to Utep, praise his name. 

Quote
Having a road like that is also a standard defensive setup.  IC'ly, that looks completely indefensible, with three ways to go just inside the gates, one of which is into an internal, open area of the city with multiple ways out of it.  I hope some thought will be given to the IC defensiveness of the gates and city perimeter.

Virtual and lore/city defensibility doesn't necessarily have to match up with PC playability and ease of movement from place to place.

Quote
Criminals.  If each of those squares is a room, which I am guessing how that should be interpretted...

Not at all, it's a generic visual representation.  Mentioned earlier, but it doesn't cover every possible room inside.
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Nyr

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Re: Tuluki Shrinkinator / Tavern Restructuring Discussion
« Reply #96 on: May 10, 2014, 10:40:09 AM »
Lastly - I realize the Undertuluk won't be the Undertuluk again (RIP - funnest spot evar in the North, IMO), but maybe if the Warrens could actually reflect more of the atmosphere hinted at in the room descriptions and occasional echoes (which also dates back many many years to another era of Northern life), that'd be terrific.

Yep, mentioned above but that's a project requiring a larger amount of work and would be separate from this.
Paint on a mustache and be a dude for a day. Stuff some melons down my shirt, cinch up a corset and pass as a girl.

With appropriate roleplay of course.

Nyr

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Re: Tuluki Shrinkinator / Tavern Restructuring Discussion
« Reply #97 on: May 10, 2014, 10:44:22 AM »
With the gardens, tribal-quarter and Poet's abreast one another as the map shows - how will that work to safeguard certain cultures from non-Citizens that may or may not currently be barred to them as is?

It's a top-level view, it does not show every room, chokepoint, or the existing tattoo checkers.
Paint on a mustache and be a dude for a day. Stuff some melons down my shirt, cinch up a corset and pass as a girl.

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Nyr

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Re: Tuluki Shrinkinator / Tavern Restructuring Discussion
« Reply #98 on: May 10, 2014, 10:52:05 AM »
Speaking of food and water, I'm not sure if they post talking about the changes mentioned this... But I know that the Firestorm has a place to cook and if that gets taken away is something going to be available for places to cook or is everyone just going to sit around the Sanctuary eating fruits and raw meat?

If your House doesn't offer one, I can think of two other firepits that will still be in the updated map and are available to anyone.

YOU SHALL PREVAIL.

Never mind I just re-read the staff announcement post and there's a cooking area off the middle-class tavern.

Where are the various apartment buildings going to be located... I mean the non-Warren's ones in particular... Like currently there are two south of the Tooth and one off from Dark Moon Road. From what this looks like is Dark Moon is going to be shortened or warped in some manner. Any sort of visualization for stuff like this would be helpful.

There's only one apartment building that will have to be moved.  We'll find a good spot for it.

Quote
How long of a maintenance window are we looking at for Monday May 19? It will probably take longer than an hour for code hashing as well as walkthrough to make sure nothing is broken. Just wondering how long though.

This is why we have test ports.  We've already been testing the script to move stuff.  Honestly, from what I understand, we can do all of the back-end work before the date arrives and then do a maintenance reboot to put it in live.
Paint on a mustache and be a dude for a day. Stuff some melons down my shirt, cinch up a corset and pass as a girl.

With appropriate roleplay of course.

Nyr

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Re: Tuluki Shrinkinator / Tavern Restructuring Discussion
« Reply #99 on: May 10, 2014, 10:59:25 AM »
PCs fought and died for the Firestorm.  And the Old Quarter?  Let's not even talk about the Old Quarter.  The best part about Tuluk was its history.

PCs found and died for the Battle of Tyn Dashra and all they got was a volcanic caldera.

The best part of Tuluk might have been its history, but the worst part was the unwieldy size of the city.  It gets wrecked, it gets ruins, great--and then what do you do with those ruins?  Expand more stuff into them, replace them with new nice stuff that is also pretty far from the city center?  Turning the Old Quarter (ostensibly a "ruin") into "virtual space that has either been reclaimed or made virtual" works fine for now.

There are several things not shown on the map that people think are part of the Old Quarter/the descs might even say that, yet they aren't being removed per the scripting I've reviewed.  The outrage over tons of history being removed seems to stem from Firestorm being touched in any way.  I can understand attachment to it, but...it'll be okay.

Quote
And why does the Tooth still have brawling in a city that abhors public displays of violence?  I've never understood that one.

God forbid a dive bar has a bar fight.
Paint on a mustache and be a dude for a day. Stuff some melons down my shirt, cinch up a corset and pass as a girl.

With appropriate roleplay of course.