Don't worry about the slippery slope argument...

[Heade]

Governing Body: We, the government of the people, for the people, hereby declare that you have nothing to worry about. Just because we are stifling and suppressing this one idea that we don't agree with doesn't mean that other things will be stifled and suppressed in the future. Heck, most of you don't care about this issue anyhow.

Citizen #1: Long live the governing body!

Citizen #2: Wait just a moment. I dissent. If you're going to step all over this idea, even if you say it won't spread to other things, what stops you in the future if we don't stand up for this now? What guarantee do we have that you won't try t silence us when we disagree on something else?

Governing Body: Thread Locked.

[Rathustra]

I'm not sure what this is in aid of, but the discussion thread was closed because the 'discussion' had degraded into 'x is a bigot', 'y is a facist' and what-have-you.

Also I don't consider myself part of a 'governing body' any more than I consider the head of MAD Magazine to be a member of a governing body.

[evilcabbage]

That thread needed to be locked because it became a lot of people badmouthing other people, which in turn led to the thread being locked. Maybe if people could be nicer and more civil, it wouldn't have happened.

[Zoan]

I'm pretty sure there's a Law similar to that one about Hitler and online discussion that given enough time, all threads devolve into mudslinging and need to be locked, if they go unchecked.

[mansa]

In my opinion, there already are rules we follow that affect our decisions of roleplay and limit what we can do.

a) you can`t play a new character and make friends with your old character`s friends.
b) you can`t bring sexual discrimination into the game.
c) you must follow the world and not bring in anachronistic items

There are many example of this that are already limiting the actions you can do within the game world.


Adding to it won`t cause the game to stop working.  It will further limit roleplay options.  

I`m okay with this new limit being introduced, though.

[Cutthroat]

Slippery slope is a fallacy when there is no proof that the slope exists. In fact, those arguing slippery slope in that thread couldn't cohesively define what the slope actually was.

- "Staff are going to ban all plots that could potentially offend other people's sensibilities." (Fallacious because torture plots would have been banned years ago.)
- "Staff are going to ban all plots that they do not have the manpower to oversee." (Fallacious because political/murder/war/etc plots would have been banned years ago.)

The whole "I did not speak up because I was not a Communist" thing is very noble, but I think at this point you should think about what battles you are picking, actually look and see if staff have demonstrably shown that they have a habit of doing what you are accusing them of doing.

[LauraMars]

Governing Body: We, the government of the people, for the people, hereby declare that you have nothing to worry about. Just because we are stifling and suppressing this one idea that we don't agree with doesn't mean that other things will be stifled and suppressed in the future. Heck, most of you don't care about this issue anyhow.

Citizen #1: Long live the governing body!

Citizen #2: Wait just a moment. I dissent. If you're going to step all over this idea, even if you say it won't spread to other things, what stops you in the future if we don't stand up for this now? What guarantee do we have that you won't try t silence us when we disagree on something else?

Governing Body: Thread Locked.

Any private organization has the right to allow or disallow whatever kind of discussion it wants.  Your right to free speech protects you from the GOVERNMENT...Armageddon is not the Government.  Please stop comparing it to the government or any kind of political entity, ideology, or movement.  It is none of those things.

[Zoan]

I'm Australian, we talk about whatever we goddamn feel like, and if someone takes offense we have emu duels, similar to the game Joust!

We're pretty rad, Australia.

[Narf]

Governing Body: We, the government of the people, for the people, hereby declare that you have nothing to worry about. Just because we are stifling and suppressing this one idea that we don't agree with doesn't mean that other things will be stifled and suppressed in the future. Heck, most of you don't care about this issue anyhow.

Citizen #1: Long live the governing body!

Citizen #2: Wait just a moment. I dissent. If you're going to step all over this idea, even if you say it won't spread to other things, what stops you in the future if we don't stand up for this now? What guarantee do we have that you won't try t silence us when we disagree on something else?

Governing Body: Thread Locked.

I feel like you're actually playing two role playing games now. One where you pretend to fight to survive in a brutal to totalitarian regime with bone swords, and the other where you pretend to fight against oppression in a totalitarian regime with boisterous forum posts.

[Adhira]

I'm Australian, we talk about whatever we goddamn feel like, and if someone takes offense we have emu duels, similar to the game Joust!

We're pretty rad, Australia.

Says you. I'm going to use my oppressive totalitarian regime to totally crush Australia.

[FreeRangeVestric]

- "Staff are going to ban all plots that could potentially offend other people's sensibilities." (Fallacious because torture plots would have been banned years ago.)

You could make the argument that the two topics most offensive to peoples' sensibilities, slavery and then rape, have been banned in that order, and that the pattern could continue. That said, I know slippery slopes are generally a logical fallacy people commit instead of an actual thing.

My stance as strongly against this censorship remains, however, no matter how slippery said slope is, or if it even exists.

[Zoan]

I'm Australian, we talk about whatever we goddamn feel like, and if someone takes offense we have emu duels, similar to the game Joust!

We're pretty rad, Australia.

Says you. I'm going to use my oppressive totalitarian regime to totally crush Australia.

With what standing army? The All Blacks?

...Actually that does sound kind of terrifying.

[Morgenes]

- "Staff are going to ban all plots that could potentially offend other people's sensibilities." (Fallacious because torture plots would have been banned years ago.)

You could make the argument that the two topics most offensive to peoples' sensibilities, slavery and then rape, have been banned in that order, and that the pattern could continue. That said, I know slippery slopes are generally a logical fallacy people commit instead of an actual thing.

My stance as strongly against this censorship remains, however, no matter how slippery said slope is, or if it even exists.

Actually, in both cases, staff has said that the reason this was changed was due to issues with the administration of slave and rape.  Never did we say either of them had anything to do with our convictions over the topics.

It's pretty simple, we are still a game where the decisions about how it is administered are made by the staff.  We try and listen to what players have to say, and weight it with our own knowledge and make the decisions that we feel fit the game.

Heade, I'm sorry you are unhappy with the direction you've found the game going.  The fact of the matter is, you are not paying anything to play this game (and at your own admission you haven't been playing the game), and so you are complaining about what the volunteer staff of a game that you don't play is doing.  So, you have a choice, you can play the game, and positively contribute, possibly even becoming staff and making the change you want to see, or you can continue to stay away from the game.

[FreeRangeVestric]

Actually, in both cases, staff has said that the reason this was changed was due to issues with the administration of slave and rape.

I was already aware of what was said in both cases. It doesn't change the fact that the two things that were banned happened to be the two things that generally offend our players' (people in general, really) sensibilities the most.

Also, from the original announcement,

While we regret having to outright ban an avenue of play from the game this topic continues to create a large workload for staff, as well as being a controversial point for players and staff alike.

It seems like both were a factor in the decision, going off of that.

[Adhira]

Yes but controversial for staff was more - the controversy of how much this area is worth our time, vs other things and so on.  Not necessarily that staff have personal issues with said topics.

[Norcal]

I'm Australian, we talk about whatever we goddamn feel like, and if someone takes offense we have emu duels, similar to the game Joust!

We're pretty rad, Australia.

Says you. I'm going to use my oppressive totalitarian regime to totally crush Australia.

With what standing army? The All Blacks?

...Actually that does sound kind of terrifying.

The All Blacks.....Pleeeaaaase...NZ could not even get the Hobbit right could they?  I am thinking more like rabbits. It's worked pretty well in the past.

[ghostymudy]

10/10.

This thread was a fantastic drinking night ender.

Top lel.

[Heade]

Any private organization has the right to allow or disallow whatever kind of discussion it wants.  Your right to free speech protects you from the GOVERNMENT...Armageddon is not the Government.  Please stop comparing it to the government or any kind of political entity, ideology, or movement.  It is none of those things.

Actually, the staff of Armageddon IS a government. See below.

gov·ern·ment

/ˈgəvər(n)mənt/

noun: government; plural noun: governments

1. the governing body of a nation, state, or community.

So, you have a choice, you can play the game, and positively contribute, possibly even becoming staff and making the change you want to see, or you can continue to stay away from the game.

I am going to continue to play the game. I love you guys. I'm just an idealist who will always argue for the ideal situation, even if said ideal situation is harder to manage. To any staff who read this thread, please don't take offense. The opening post was designed to generate buzz and controversy, not necessarily to be accusatory.



P.S. You're welcome ghosty.

[FantasyWriter]

They don't govern us, the community. They govern their property, the game, the same way that the CEO or management governs nearly ever private business in the world.

[Heade]

They don't govern us, the community. They govern their property, the game, the same way that the CEO or management governs nearly ever private business in the world.

When they hold the power to make you no longer a member of said community, they govern you and your behavior within that community. At this point, I feel like you're grasping at straws here. They fit the definition of government. Period.

[evilcabbage]

Either way the decision was made, and as far as I've seen has had no actual negative impact on the game. In fact, it may have a positive impact on the retention of players who might otherwise have been leery of joining the game because rape plots were allowed to begin with, and might have been afraid that their character would have been the subject of a rape plot, or forced to be involved in such a plot, or heard about such a plot that would have made them incredibly uncomfortable.

There are consent rules for torture. Rape is harder to enforce because someone can go ahead and accuse somebody else Ig of rape, and it EXPLODES into this huge thing where everybody in a single region gets affected, and the playerbase has shown on many occasions that it does not have the clout to properly handle it in a zalanthan way. And that's only PART of it.

The other part is the obvious thing from before:  it makes people uncomfortable. It might bring up memories for somebody else, it might make them relive those moments, it takes a HUGE amount of effort for staff to review every single report of a rape plot to MAKE SURE that consent was explicitly granted. That is why it was gotten rid of, and I for one am coming to accept (and have even already come to accept) the decision, based on my understanding of why this was done.

[BleakOne]

Seeing as how I'm pretty much Citizen #1 on the threads related to this topic, I wanted to post something...

Unfortunately, my internet is still acting all crabby on me, so I will have to be brief.

Glory to Astotzka!

[MeTekillot]

They don't govern us, the community. They govern their property, the game, the same way that the CEO or management governs nearly ever private business in the world.

When they hold the power to make you no longer a member of said community, they govern you and your behavior within that community. At this point, I feel like you're grasping at straws here. They fit the definition of government. Period.

they govern us but they aren't the fucking government oh my god they aren't the nazis

[Inks]

I personally liked Heade's contributions to the discussions about rape being banned, I found them to be sane and not snipey.

I am glad they unlocked the thread. Thank you for that.

[Synthesis]

They don't govern us, the community. They govern their property, the game, the same way that the CEO or management governs nearly ever private business in the world.

When they hold the power to make you no longer a member of said community, they govern you and your behavior within that community. At this point, I feel like you're grasping at straws here. They fit the definition of government. Period.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equivocation