Author Topic: How do you feel about PC killing?  (Read 59443 times)

Wastrel

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Re: How do you feel about PC killing?
« Reply #200 on: July 05, 2013, 01:47:33 AM »
You can kill all day everyday but at least emote a scene.

Otherwise fuck off.

RogueGunslinger

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Re: How do you feel about PC killing?
« Reply #201 on: July 05, 2013, 02:02:56 AM »
It really depends.

Wastrel

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Re: How do you feel about PC killing?
« Reply #202 on: July 05, 2013, 02:22:42 AM »
Nah, it really doesnt. If there are extenuating circumstances, like if your character is begging to be assassinated, or if you have roleplayed upto a certain point with someone and are at the coded-action stage, sure. But otherwise, random killing someone without any sort of roleplay IS COMPLETELY INEXSCUSABLE and an utterly CHICKENSHIT AWFUL thing to do. Period.

James de Monet

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Re: How do you feel about PC killing?
« Reply #203 on: July 05, 2013, 02:41:12 AM »
Dude, if you got ganked, there is a high probability that your character was doing something to 'ask for it' that you weren't aware of. You can play this game for years and still find out the hard way that there are places you shouldn't go as X race, or things you should never say to Y group that you had no idea about. It's usually better if you give the killer the benefit of the doubt and assume you were, in fact, asking for it in some way that you were clueless about. It's better for you and your continued sanity, might prevent it from happening again, and your ire isn't going to affect your killer either way.

Besides, you're assuming that they didn't emote. They might have been hemoting or semoting (depending on the situation) that entire time, and you never saw a thing. Hate to break it to you, but players don't really have a responsibility to let you see your death coming, or make it fun for you. It's considered OOCly sporting, yes, but every player's responsibility is to play realistically. Playing entertainingly or narratively is just icing on the cake.
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Riev

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Re: How do you feel about PC killing?
« Reply #204 on: July 05, 2013, 03:17:58 AM »
Dude, if you got ganked, there is a high probability that your character was doing something to 'ask for it' that you weren't aware of. You can play this game for years and still find out the hard way that there are places you shouldn't go as X race, or things you should never say to Y group that you had no idea about. It's usually better if you give the killer the benefit of the doubt and assume you were, in fact, asking for it in some way that you were clueless about. It's better for you and your continued sanity, might prevent it from happening again, and your ire isn't going to affect your killer either way.

Besides, you're assuming that they didn't emote. They might have been hemoting or semoting (depending on the situation) that entire time, and you never saw a thing. Hate to break it to you, but players don't really have a responsibility to let you see your death coming, or make it fun for you. It's considered OOCly sporting, yes, but every player's responsibility is to play realistically. Playing entertainingly or narratively is just icing on the cake.

I'm still slightly upset at a PK that happened, really, for no other reason than I followed my PC's movements to join a certain Clan, and that Clan's current PC leader was pissing someone off. So I was killed, to show the PC leader that the other clan meant business.

I mean. Shit. I get it. And I damn sure fucking hope it worked. But man... getting One-Hit Killed still leaves a bitter taste in my mouth, if for no other reason than I had no real chance. I mean, I walked into a room. Checked a shopkeep's supplies, and boom. Mantis head.

But hey, at least it drove a plotline that I'll never know about.
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Wastrel

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Re: How do you feel about PC killing?
« Reply #205 on: July 05, 2013, 03:48:28 AM »
"PK'd" in an RPI mud...lol...just lol

Sure, sometimes, there are hidden mechanations your PC is unaware of, but when you are lel random killed its basically for awful shallow arbitrary reasons or no reason at all and anybody who's not lying to themselves knows it. Its not condusive to good roleplay or a roleplay atmosphere. If you are killing someone you fucking better emote one way or another. This is not news. Hate to break it to you, but roleplaying is required.

The only times I've been PK'd is by idiots accidently killing via mechanics they didn't realize would or mechanics they forgot about.

So engaging! So realistic! Such immersion!

Hitsuchi

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Re: How do you feel about PC killing?
« Reply #206 on: July 05, 2013, 04:12:56 AM »
It's not hard to assume this just happened to you. Regardless, if you feel they didn't roleplay well enough, send in a player complaint? I got the impression that's what they're there for.

Also, I'd like to stress: Roleplaying and emoting are not the same thing. It is perfectly possible to emote without roleplaying, and to roleplay without emoting. Of course, it is preferrable to share emotes with the world for flavor and whatnot, but that's another point entirely.

I'm not trying to say it is a non-issue, though. Of course it hurts to lose a character you've put time and effort into. More so if it seems like a pointless death without much flavor. But then, NPCs rarely give you grace periods or flavor emotes, do they? Just saying - the lack of roleplay isn't the problem, as most deaths aren't PKs and therefore likely to be without flowery emotes. Though I think I'd love getting a little text as a player saying why we died, sometimes. I know this is unlikely due to IC secrets and all that. But if you're moving to a new starting location, you might never know why and it will always be a sore spot...

Wastrel

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Re: How do you feel about PC killing?
« Reply #207 on: July 05, 2013, 04:51:17 AM »
Quote
Also, I'd like to stress: Roleplaying and emoting are not the same thing. It is perfectly possible to emote without roleplaying, and to roleplay without emoting. Of course, it is preferrable to share emotes with the world for flavor and whatnot, but that's another point entirely.

Oh please. Yes it is.  Emote or talking, thats fine. Stop with the contrarian overly elaborate justifiications for something that is inherently simple. Stop arguing semantics. Stop nitpicking. What I'm saying is pretty fucking basic. Dont randomly kill people with arbitrary justifications without giving them some due process and roleplay to go along with their death. I'm obviously not talking about all the little what ifs. BUT NEERRRR IM A STEALTHY ASSASSIN HEMOTING. BUTBUTBUTBUTBUT. Shut. Up.


musashi

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Re: How do you feel about PC killing?
« Reply #208 on: July 05, 2013, 05:55:06 AM »
What you're saying ... is a fictional hyperbolic situation in your head that no one would actually disagree with but isn't really the reality of the situation, and then you're parading that around on a high horse, asserting it as fact when it isn't, with inflammatory rhetoric to top it off.

The situation you describe is not the reality of the game world. It might, possibly, rarely occur that someone is just treating the game like a hack and slash MUD to grief other players, but there are tools and guardians (player complaints, and staff) in place to curb that sort of thing when it happens.

If you feel sore about a PK and think it was done abusively ... file a player complaint.
Griefing about it on the GDB is in poor taste.

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3. Sometimes people are nasty. There are no rules against being extremely mean to others that your character may meet, be it cheating, stealing, killing, swindling, or otherwise making a fool out of. The sole exception to this is termed 'the rule of consent', and is outlined both in "help consent" and in point 5, below.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2013, 07:26:27 AM by musashi »
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Kismetic

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Re: How do you feel about PC killing?
« Reply #209 on: July 05, 2013, 06:23:24 AM »
Every time I hear people complain about death without emotes or substantial roleplay, it makes me think of a movie ...

Specifically: 
"Well, Gary, if that even is your real name ...  somebody stole my computer.  Now, if you're a criminal--  Look at me! ... You have to tell me, legally, or else it's considered entrapment."  -- Andy Dwyer

Vwest

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Re: How do you feel about PC killing?
« Reply #210 on: July 05, 2013, 08:21:57 AM »
BUT NEERRRR IM A STEALTHY ASSASSIN HEMOTING. BUTBUTBUTBUTBUT. Shut. Up.

Sig worthy.

Congratulations.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2013, 08:25:42 AM by Vwest »
Someone says, out of character:
     "Sorry, was a wolf outside, had to warn someone."

BUT NEERRRR IM A STEALTHY ASSASSIN HEMOTING. BUTBUTBUTBUTBUT. Shut. Up.

MeTekillot

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Re: How do you feel about PC killing?
« Reply #211 on: July 05, 2013, 08:30:00 AM »
emote all you want, i'm gonna grief you off the game, scrublord
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Delirium

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Re: How do you feel about PC killing?
« Reply #212 on: July 05, 2013, 08:34:19 AM »
Every time I hear people complain about death without emotes or substantial roleplay, it makes me think of a movie ...

Specifically: 

Warning: if you haven't seen the Departed, don't watch that clip.

But yes. Sometimes death is very swift. Though now I'm imagining that actor throwing a temper tantrum bc his character didn't get a fancy death scene, lol.
"There are no happy endings, because nothing ends." - Schmendrick

spicemustflow

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Re: How do you feel about PC killing?
« Reply #213 on: July 05, 2013, 08:34:47 AM »
Wastrel, you need to relax. Everyone's been instakilled, it's not pleasant but hopefully there was something behind it other than "they can". If you're pissed after you see Mantis Head out of nowhere, drop a line to staff and they'll see if the killer needs some talking to.

Cutthroat

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Re: How do you feel about PC killing?
« Reply #214 on: July 05, 2013, 09:45:09 AM »
Usually, random murder has enough of an IC consequence that there is really no need to discourage it OOCly. Even the website says that Zalanthan societies have ways of dealing with crazy killers. So what is the big deal if someone wants to play one? Play the character that kills murderers and/or make sure the virtual world reacts by reporting it to staff.

Patuk

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Re: How do you feel about PC killing?
« Reply #215 on: July 05, 2013, 09:55:23 AM »
Even if there are proper reactions to everything.. Just going 'no you're wrong there was a reason must've been yep' is a bit silly. We all know that pk's for silly reasons can and do happen, and even if it might be the minority of all cases, admonishing someone about a case you have no knowledge of is ignorant at best. Stop it.
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musashi

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Re: How do you feel about PC killing?
« Reply #216 on: July 05, 2013, 09:58:02 AM »
I think you have that backwards. No one is saying they are sure there had to have been a reason. People are saying that Wastrel has no way of being sure there was no reason hence griefing about it on the GDB and referencing the PK in question is not in good taste ... because ...

A.
In the majority of PK instances there was sound reasoning and plenty of RP leading up to it regardless of whether or not the victim got to see that.

B.
... admonishing someone about a case you have no incomplete knowledge of is ignorant at best.

And C.
Quote from: The Rules Helpfile For Armageddon
3. Sometimes people are nasty. There are no rules against being extremely mean to others that your character may meet, be it cheating, stealing, killing, swindling, or otherwise making a fool out of. The sole exception to this is termed 'the rule of consent', and is outlined both in "help consent" and in point 5, below.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2013, 10:04:20 AM by musashi »
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Morrolan

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Re: How do you feel about PC killing?
« Reply #217 on: July 05, 2013, 10:22:46 AM »
Yeah. Complaining on the GDB about IG events that happened less than a year ago is also "bad form." And "bad form" is a terrible Internet sin.
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Delirium

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Re: How do you feel about PC killing?
« Reply #218 on: July 05, 2013, 10:34:48 AM »
I'm not sure when this 'year ago' rule started but I think it's a gdb trend rather than documented fact. Some things are basically never ok to talk about, anyway. If you absolutely have to vent, write yourself a pm or talk to a friend who doesn't play the game.
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Barzalene

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Re: How do you feel about PC killing?
« Reply #219 on: July 05, 2013, 10:40:11 AM »
Wastrel, you are allowed to be frustrated. You may be right about the circumstances. And if you lost a pc you enjoyed, I am sorry to hear it.

It's hard to get resolution on the gdb. I think someone mentioned a character report. Send one in, because if you're right, staff should be aware of a pattern for this sort of thing. And if you're wrong at least you've had a chance to vent to people that have the whole picture.
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ShaLeah

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Re: How do you feel about PC killing?
« Reply #220 on: July 05, 2013, 11:09:47 AM »
Really upset kinda stuff.
Quote from: The Rules Helpfile For Armageddon
3. Sometimes people are nasty. There are no rules against being extremely mean to others that your character may meet, be it cheating, stealing, killing, swindling, or otherwise making a fool out of. The sole exception to this is termed 'the rule of consent', and is outlined both in "help consent" and in point 5, below.

My chars have been pk'ed twice while I was AFK. One I didn't see coming at all, she betrayed by her -boss-. That was my FIRST character.  My chars have been murdered by clanmates in clan halls or elsewhere and then gone on to explain the murder away by whatever IC reasons that kept them perfectly clean looking. Been (censored) by (censored) without so much as a hint. Instantly, whack, NO chance of survival. You know what they say... Murder... Corruption... Betrayal.

It's frustrating to invest X amount of time on a character only to have it ganked. It's especially frustrating when there doesn't -seem- to be a reason and there is nothing leading up to it (emotes) but the truth is that it's environmentally appropriate for that to happen. There are murderers everywhere. Even that person sitting at the bar next to you, laughing at your jokes.

If there is -any- question as to whether the murder or attempted murder was a result of OOC twinkiness and not IC'ly appropriate, make a player complaint.  In all my time here I have done that once, and I did so even suspecting it was a newbie that didn't know better. Everyone has to learn.
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Desertman

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Re: How do you feel about PC killing?
« Reply #221 on: July 05, 2013, 11:22:09 AM »
BUT NEERRRR IM A STEALTHY ASSASSIN HEMOTING. BUTBUTBUTBUTBUT. Shut. Up.



This always a very hard situation to play from both ends.

In an ideal world, people would roleplay every time correctly and realistically from both ends. You have to realize this is not an ideal world. You can't trust other players to play out scenes and not just insta-run.

I will make you a deal. I will emote with you, instead of hemoting myself where you can't see it, if you agree to not run before I can one-shot your character. If you will willingly stand there and not try to run knowing that you are going to die, I will roleplay with you first. How many people are going to do that?

It is really a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.

The majority of people are going to run out screaming, "Assassin! Assassin!" just as fast as they can the very first second you so much as emote/speak, instead of just typing "backstab man". That is why the people you see that "aren't roleplaying", are doing it the way you see them, or well, don't see them, doing it.

That is why hemote/think/etc...etc...even exist, or at least that is a good reason for them to exist. The staff can know there was roleplay and justification behind the killing, without the coded limitations of the game making it impossible to roleplay and still get the kill.

If people would stand still while I roleplay with them and just let me kill them, I would talk with them and emote with them every time before every kill. The fact is they ALWAYS insta-flee and report you to the nearest templar instead.

« Last Edit: July 05, 2013, 11:23:51 AM by Desertman »
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Is Friday

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Re: How do you feel about PC killing?
« Reply #222 on: July 05, 2013, 11:34:06 AM »
I make sure to randomly no-emote kill a few PCs for no reason every once in a while. I feel it adds to plots.
And then I sat there going "really? that was it? that's so stupid."

I still think the best closure you get in Armageddon is just moving on to the next character.

Riev

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Re: How do you feel about PC killing?
« Reply #223 on: July 05, 2013, 11:52:35 AM »
BUT NEERRRR IM A STEALTHY ASSASSIN HEMOTING. BUTBUTBUTBUTBUT. Shut. Up.



This always a very hard situation to play from both ends.

In an ideal world, people would roleplay every time correctly and realistically from both ends. You have to realize this is not an ideal world. You can't trust other players to play out scenes and not just insta-run.

I will make you a deal. I will emote with you, instead of hemoting myself where you can't see it, if you agree to not run before I can one-shot your character. If you will willingly stand there and not try to run knowing that you are going to die, I will roleplay with you first. How many people are going to do that?

It is really a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.

The majority of people are going to run out screaming, "Assassin! Assassin!" just as fast as they can the very first second you so much as emote/speak, instead of just typing "backstab man". That is why the people you see that "aren't roleplaying", are doing it the way you see them, or well, don't see them, doing it.

That is why hemote/think/etc...etc...even exist, or at least that is a good reason for them to exist. The staff can know there was roleplay and justification behind the killing, without the coded limitations of the game making it impossible to roleplay and still get the kill.

If people would stand still while I roleplay with them and just let me kill them, I would talk with them and emote with them every time before every kill. The fact is they ALWAYS insta-flee and report you to the nearest templar instead.


Sadly, Dman has it pretty much right. Very VERY rarely, is there times where people stand still, and emote out a fight to the death, or even emote out period. I've been on both sides of the situation. I had a fight with someone that was coded combat, then disengages after reels to emote a bit about what happened, before re-engaging the fight. I've had times where I stood around, waiting to emote with someone, and they just went hide;backstab idiot.... because by the time I got my emote typed in it said "you don't see that person he- WHAGHGHEHAGHHGHGHG".

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Patuk

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Re: How do you feel about PC killing?
« Reply #224 on: July 05, 2013, 11:56:25 AM »
The more you instastab people rather than kill them in a proper scene, the more people will know that they have twinks after them and the less inclined they'll be to accept their fates and RP out their death.

You're no better than what you're admonishing.
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