Author Topic: Exceptions to Race, persona, background rule - Snowflake or REAL?  (Read 26816 times)

Gilgamesh

  • Posts: 255
Re: Exceptions to Race, persona, background rule - Snowflake or REAL?
« Reply #25 on: July 10, 2012, 04:12:51 PM »
Everyone hates elves, till that elf is either

A) Female.
B) Emotes really well.
C) Can make custom items.
D) Is headless.

Then y'all wanna fuck it.

 :-[


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spicemustflow

  • Posts: 2485
Re: Exceptions to Race, persona, background rule - Snowflake or REAL?
« Reply #26 on: July 10, 2012, 04:26:14 PM »
Everyone hates elves, till that elf is either

A) Female.
B) Emotes really well.
C) Can make custom items.

Then y'all wanna fuck it.

 :-[

Well, if she emotes very well that could mean she's ICly seen as very charming and animated and for some, that could incite nasty thoughts. It's not a total perversion, elves are still humanoid after all. And some humans are elvenoid enough.

Iiyola

  • Posts: 3893
Re: Exceptions to Race, persona, background rule - Snowflake or REAL?
« Reply #27 on: July 10, 2012, 04:36:45 PM »
Everyone hates elves, till that elf is either

A) Female.
B) Emotes really well.
C) Can make custom items.

Then y'all wanna fuck it.

 :-[

Well, if she emotes very well that could mean she's ICly seen as very charming and animated and for some, that could incite nasty thoughts. It's not a total perversion, elves are still humanoid after all. And some humans are elvenoid enough.
You mean breeds?
Sometimes, severity is the price we pay for greatness

Malken

  • Posts: 8934
Re: Exceptions to Race, persona, background rule - Snowflake or REAL?
« Reply #28 on: July 10, 2012, 04:39:41 PM »
Everyone hates elves, till that elf is either

A) Female.
B) Emotes really well.
C) Can make custom items.

Then y'all wanna fuck it.

 :-[

Well, if she emotes very well that could mean she's ICly seen as very charming and animated and for some, that could incite nasty thoughts. It's not a total perversion, elves are still humanoid after all. And some humans are elvenoid enough.

“When I was a fighting man, the kettle-drums they beat;
The people scattered gold-dust before my horse’s feet;
But now I am a great king, the people hound my track
With poison in my wine-cup, and daggers at my back.”

spicemustflow

  • Posts: 2485
Re: Exceptions to Race, persona, background rule - Snowflake or REAL?
« Reply #29 on: July 10, 2012, 04:50:53 PM »
You mean breeds?

No, I meant some humans can be seen as attractive by certain elves.



Well, you put the sad smiley, so I thought your point was that B) was kinda shitty reason for race mixing.

No idea what you mean by 'can make custom items'.

Malken

  • Posts: 8934
Re: Exceptions to Race, persona, background rule - Snowflake or REAL?
« Reply #30 on: July 10, 2012, 05:00:52 PM »
Well, you put the sad smiley, so I thought your point was that B) was kinda shitty reason for race mixing.

No idea what you mean by 'can make custom items'.

My point was that once you start finding a reason to sleep with an elf, and you convince yourself that this reason is acceptable, then pretty much everyone can just do the same and then at what point does it become a bad thing for humans to be sleeping with elves? Maybe it's really not in the end, if the same reason you'd sleep with another human can be applied to elves..

Why am I hooking up with that human? Well, she's beautiful, or rich, or she can cook well, or she's great in bed, or she's a really talented bard..

Why am I hooking up with that elf, now? Well, she's beautiful, or rich, or she can cook well, or she's great in bed, or she's a really talented bard..

So you're saying that if you have a good reason for your PC to be sleeping with elves or breeds, then it's acceptable to do it? That's when it becomes a problem, since everyone thinks that their reason is good, so we have a whole bunch of people not following the docs because they're convinced, or their PC are, that sleeping with elves or breeds isn't so bad.
“When I was a fighting man, the kettle-drums they beat;
The people scattered gold-dust before my horse’s feet;
But now I am a great king, the people hound my track
With poison in my wine-cup, and daggers at my back.”

spicemustflow

  • Posts: 2485
Re: Exceptions to Race, persona, background rule - Snowflake or REAL?
« Reply #31 on: July 10, 2012, 05:14:54 PM »
So you're saying that if you have a good reason for your PC to be sleeping with elves or breeds, then it's acceptable to do it?

What's acceptable for my PC shouldn't necessarily be acceptable for everyone else. I don't have a problem with people playing exceptions if they respect the world. A human/elf couple that keep the relationship secret out of shame and fear would be fun. The same couple parading around, flipping the haters off would be jarring and annoying.

Sav

  • Posts: 156
Re: Exceptions to Race, persona, background rule - Snowflake or REAL?
« Reply #32 on: July 10, 2012, 06:05:09 PM »
If any downside can be found to the gradual erosion of ethnic/racial hatred in human history, it's that a lot of us now struggle to fake it in imaginary roleplaying games. ;)

I liked the point someone made about how a lot of characters are the sort of underdogs who could justify unusual alliances to themselves even if they generally agreed that Amos the Elf was still an inferior, thieving bastard just for being an elf. Historically there have always been maligned people who kind of shrugged and banded together even if it was absolutely not done; see: gays, lesbians, and African-Americans in the 1920's Harlem Renaissance, slaves/freedmen and Native Americans in the Black Seminoles, etc.

I'm not arguing that this is a direct parallel or should be the norm in Zalanthas, just that there are rational reasons for maligned groups to abuse the hell out of each other in an attempt to gain a scrap of power, or to make dangerous little alliances which are utterly unacceptable and unthinkable to the rest of the world around them.

As long as everyone gets that humans who are cool with elves and elves who are cool with 'gickers are a horrific violation of Zalanthan norms, intentionally play it that way, and don't outnumber the rest of the population which should be full of frothing prejudice (New York as a whole was still not an awesome place for either African-Americans or queer folk in the 1920's), I'm cool with assuming that players have valid reasons and staff will step in if they don't.

Morrolan

  • Posts: 2687
Re: Exceptions to Race, persona, background rule - Snowflake or REAL?
« Reply #33 on: July 10, 2012, 07:52:47 PM »
The same couple parading around, flipping the haters off would be jarring and annoying.

...but only very, very briefly.   ;)

Not acknowledging the realities of the game is what is jarring.

It can be perfectly natural for a character who is also otherwise naive, young, sheltered, and emotionally driven to say,

Quote from: naive character
I am in love with an elf/human/breed/whatever and no one can tell me it is wrong!

But if you are a bad-ass assassin, mercenary, sorcerer, etc. then that is a very unlikely proposition. A character like that is more likely to say,

Quote from: badass character
I am in love with an elf/human/breed/commoner/whatever and I am going to keep it quiet. And they are going to keep it quiet. Or I am going to have to do what is necessary to maintain my social position.

Lusting after the forbidden is normal. Expecting people IG to be cool with that is naive. Other characters actually being cool with it is extremely unlikely.

As always, when playing exceptions, keep in close contact with the staff. Exceptions are never, ever, ever something you should "get away with" OOC. If being an exception is a part of your character, be up-front about it with staff.

Edit to add: And if the staff says you are playing outside the docs, well...sorry.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2012, 07:54:47 PM by Morrolan »
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Malifaxis

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Re: Exceptions to Race, persona, background rule - Snowflake or REAL?
« Reply #34 on: July 11, 2012, 12:57:25 AM »
Still butthurt, huh Malken?  I feel bad for ya, son.
Yes. Read the thread if you want, or skip to page 7 and be dismissive.
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Stop being shitty to each other.

Malken

  • Posts: 8934
Re: Exceptions to Race, persona, background rule - Snowflake or REAL?
« Reply #35 on: July 11, 2012, 12:59:19 AM »
Still butthurt, huh Malken?  I feel bad for ya, son.

?
“When I was a fighting man, the kettle-drums they beat;
The people scattered gold-dust before my horse’s feet;
But now I am a great king, the people hound my track
With poison in my wine-cup, and daggers at my back.”

Iiyola

  • Posts: 3893
Re: Exceptions to Race, persona, background rule - Snowflake or REAL?
« Reply #36 on: July 11, 2012, 01:10:05 AM »
That really contributes to the thread. Yep.
Sometimes, severity is the price we pay for greatness

kayza

  • Posts: 318
Re: Exceptions to Race, persona, background rule - Snowflake or REAL?
« Reply #37 on: July 11, 2012, 01:58:36 AM »
Many of you just ASSUME way tooo much.

Edited for clarification..
You can't just see a few emotes and conversations to say you know the character, and why they are acting the way they are.

Just because someone is being pleasant to another does not mean they are now best buds!
« Last Edit: July 11, 2012, 02:46:30 AM by kayza »
:-)

Eurynomos

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  • Posts: 1468
Re: Exceptions to Race, persona, background rule - Snowflake or REAL?
« Reply #38 on: July 11, 2012, 03:19:50 AM »
No, but we as Staff can see everything, and there's plenty of people that play the exception without informing Staff as to what the background is, or why they are going against documentation. And then we can only assume the worst about that PC, because we have nothing else to go off of.

How Schrodinger's Cat put it suits me best -- Inform the Staff ahead of time/consistently if you wish to play an exception to the rule. Explain it to us, and why you think it would be beneficial to the game world. Otherwise, we will have very little information to go off of besides "This PC is playing the exception to the rule, bad PC!" If you involve the virtual world around you to show how you are 'different', kudos! That's even better, and I enjoy when people do this. SC's examples were pretty spot on.
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Cowboy

  • Posts: 406
Re: Exceptions to Race, persona, background rule - Snowflake or REAL?
« Reply #39 on: July 11, 2012, 01:54:33 PM »
I think it's ok to be an exception as long as you don't expect the rest of us to IC applaud you for trying it ( I might OOC applaud however).  More plainly, I believe D-elves would simply kill an elf that rode on a mount.  They wouldn't even want an explanation of why.  Sleep with a gicker? Your dead too.  Love a longneck?  Can you spell outcast or dead?  The Armageddon world is not a place that embraces exceptions.  As long you accept the IC reactions, knock your self out but don't expect the rest of us to sit back IC and patiently wait to see how it turns out for you.  Personally, I think there are already plenty of exceptions built into the game.  C-elves are exceptions, certain tribes are exceptions,  weird guild/subguild combinations (particularly with the new ones) are exceptions.  I don't see an IC or OOC need for focus-less dwarves,  smart half-giants, and four d-elves characters that all decide to ride beetles.  Plenty of room for IC exceptions and not much room for OOC exceptions.
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Delirium

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  • Posts: 11188
Re: Exceptions to Race, persona, background rule - Snowflake or REAL?
« Reply #40 on: July 11, 2012, 01:56:32 PM »
^ that post.
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Maso

  • Posts: 3771
Re: Exceptions to Race, persona, background rule - Snowflake or REAL?
« Reply #41 on: July 11, 2012, 02:23:25 PM »
Seconded.

Also, I think when there is an influx of 'exceptions', the problem is with them not being treated correctly IC by the other people around them. Best way to teach the players behind the characters is by showing them the IC repercussions...then if they do choose to play an exception it's with the understanding of the drama and potential danger it will cause.

I'm currently seeing a very accurate representation of the societal prejudices against my character in the area of the game I play in. Like...bob on. The very few exceptions I have come across...seem to be the minority...and I'm glad that they exist. It adds some diversity to the game. I'm also seeing 'the exceptions' being dealt with in an IC way. So it all looks pretty good right now. But maybe I'm missing something.
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DustMight

  • Posts: 933
Re: Exceptions to Race, persona, background rule - Snowflake or REAL?
« Reply #42 on: July 11, 2012, 07:48:12 PM »
I hope this discussion will lead to less male dwarves hitting on human women.  :-\ I've always felt the stigma of mul breeding should do a much better job of discourageing such behavior.

They do this?   :o
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Patuk

  • Posts: 4123
Re: Exceptions to Race, persona, background rule - Snowflake or REAL?
« Reply #43 on: July 11, 2012, 07:50:44 PM »
I hope this discussion will lead to less male dwarves hitting on human women.  :-\ I've always felt the stigma of mul breeding should do a much better job of discourageing such behavior.

They do this?   :o

That's.. Exactly what I thought, though I refrained from saying it since I've played dwarves nor women.
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Morrolan

  • Posts: 2687
Re: Exceptions to Race, persona, background rule - Snowflake or REAL?
« Reply #44 on: July 11, 2012, 08:23:21 PM »
They do this?   :o

Dude.  Ick.

I could see half-giants doing this, 'cause everyone else was. Dwarves? Not so much.
"I have seen him show most of the attributes one expects of a noble: courtesy, kindness, and honor.  I would also say he is one of the most bloodthirsty bastards I have ever met."

ShaLeah

  • Posts: 4924
Re: Exceptions to Race, persona, background rule - Snowflake or REAL?
« Reply #45 on: July 11, 2012, 08:36:09 PM »
They do this?   :o

Dude.  Ick.

I could see half-giants doing this, 'cause everyone else was. Dwarves? Not so much.

Dwarves have hit on my human females.
* ShaLeah shudders, ickily.
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Medena

  • Posts: 1175
Re: Exceptions to Race, persona, background rule - Snowflake or REAL?
« Reply #46 on: July 11, 2012, 08:39:53 PM »
Dwarves have hit on my human females.
* ShaLeah shudders, ickily.

Humans have hit on my one dwarven female!  She and I both thought it was pretty icky.
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Iiyola

  • Posts: 3893
Re: Exceptions to Race, persona, background rule - Snowflake or REAL?
« Reply #47 on: July 11, 2012, 09:26:12 PM »
Humans.... nasty creatures.
Sometimes, severity is the price we pay for greatness

musashi

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Re: Exceptions to Race, persona, background rule - Snowflake or REAL?
« Reply #48 on: July 11, 2012, 11:50:50 PM »
My 15 year old whiran got really drunk and spiced in Luirs and woke up next to the plump dwarves prostitute the next morning.
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jstorrie

  • Posts: 4564
Re: Exceptions to Race, persona, background rule - Snowflake or REAL?
« Reply #49 on: July 12, 2012, 12:14:07 AM »
Dwarves have hit on my human females.
* ShaLeah shudders, ickily.

Man, I can think of some great pick-up lines for this scenario, too.