Author Topic: American Political Thread  (Read 221858 times)

Synthesis

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Re: American Political Thread
« Reply #75 on: December 23, 2011, 10:02:28 PM »
So it's a lot easier to support them without reservation  ;)

Wait a minute....

Gays...reservations...indians...

my god, we just need to declare san francisco an autonomous tribal zone
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musashi

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Re: American Political Thread
« Reply #76 on: December 23, 2011, 10:15:52 PM »
You have your moments of genius, Synth.

In other news ... man I hope Dr. Paul wins the Iowa caucus. It would be funny to see the other Republicans come out and tell the people of Iowa that their vote didn't count.
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brytta.leofa

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Re: American Political Thread
« Reply #77 on: December 23, 2011, 11:30:05 PM »
my god, we just need to declare san francisco an autonomous tribal zone

I'm picturing a world full of, if you'll pardon the stereotype this once for the sake of whimsy, fabulous fireworks and casinos.

In other news ... man I hope Dr. Paul wins the Iowa caucus. It would be funny to see the other Republicans come out and tell the people of Iowa that their vote didn't count.

Iowa caucus-goers are protective of their preeminent place in the nominating process. If they deliver victory to a history-making Ron Paul, no one should take them as seriously again.
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brytta.leofa

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Re: American Political Thread
« Reply #78 on: December 23, 2011, 11:47:17 PM »
Let's make a distinction here: are settlements built on land seized from individuals (Palestinians' land), or on land seized from Palestinian political control (Palestinian land)?

Isn't it both? I'm not sure how that distinction would be meaningful. I mean if you're asking: Have Palestinian individuals been kicked out of their homes to make way for Israeli settlements ... that would be a big a resounding yes. Many times. Was the land their home sat on previously under Palestinian political control before it was annexed by Israel? Yes to that too. In much the same way the land your house is sitting on right now is under American political control, and my house sits on land under Japanese political control.

Or did you mean something else?

No, those were exactly what I meant.  I find the latter hard to get really upset about; but, as to the settlements as being harmful to Arab residents, I found a fairly detailed summary: http://www.elca.org/Our-Faith-In-Action/Justice/Peace-Not-Walls/Major-Issues/Shelter.aspx

Yeah, that's pretty rough.

The only reason I brought it up was to point out how it's not reaaaally a good analogy to the civil rights issue for homosexuals ... homosexuals aren't waging war back on conservatives. The hate is only going one way in that issue. So it's a lot easier to support them without reservation  ;)

Ranch Personnel and First Nations, if the analogue runs so close to a hot button as to obscure the analogy.  Dude.
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Synthesis

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Re: American Political Thread
« Reply #79 on: December 24, 2011, 12:05:54 AM »
Wait, didn't Huckabee win the Iowa Republican caucus last time around?  I'm pretty sure we should've stopped taking them seriously at that point.  In fact, they've only been shooting 50% since Gerald Ford...and only 2 for 5 if you count Ford as an incumbent (which he basically was, having taken over after Nixon's resignation).

I mean, they didn't even pick Saint Reagan (peace be upon him).
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boog

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Re: American Political Thread
« Reply #80 on: December 24, 2011, 11:35:11 AM »
So it's a lot easier to support them without reservation  ;)

Wait a minute....

Gays...reservations...indians...

my god, we just need to declare san francisco an autonomous tribal zone

god dammit, i was gonna bring indians up :(
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lordcooper

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Re: American Political Thread
« Reply #81 on: December 24, 2011, 12:44:14 PM »
Quite off topic, but why do European Americans (as opposed to African Americans) refer to native Americans as Indians?
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Marauder Moe

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Re: American Political Thread
« Reply #82 on: December 24, 2011, 12:50:53 PM »
Quite off topic, but why do European Americans (as opposed to African Americans) refer to native Americans as Indians?
Because back when Europeans first dared to sail across the Atlantic, they thought they'd made it all the way around the world to India, and it was a fairly long time before that belief was dispelled.

musashi

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Re: American Political Thread
« Reply #83 on: December 24, 2011, 10:39:47 PM »
That's also why the American continent has an island chain on the eastern seaboard called the West Indies.
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boog

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Re: American Political Thread
« Reply #84 on: December 24, 2011, 10:56:37 PM »
Quite off topic, but why do European Americans (as opposed to African Americans) refer to native Americans as Indians?

Also, a LOT of tribes prefer one term or another. Some like First Nations People, some like Native Americans, some don't mind Indians.

Generally, I use whatever term everyone else is using.

Native American Studies almost was my college major. Fortunately I had the foresight to realize I should major in something else and thus, be more than just an anthropologist to them.

(They hate anthropologists. See "Custer Died For Your Sins")

Anyway! Back to the thread at hand.

lol @ Gingrich and Perry not getting the signatures required to be on the ballot in VA! OOPS.
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SwanSwanHummingbird

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Re: American Political Thread
« Reply #85 on: December 25, 2011, 01:45:59 AM »
Ron Paul 2012!!!    :D

He polls best of the Republican candidates among those under 45.
He polls best with non-whites.
He polls best among the activist Republican base (as evidenced by his numerous straw polls wins, and winning CPAC two years in a row -- something that hasn't been done in a long time).
He polls best with independents and Democrats.
Some polls have him doing best against Obama (others have him as a close second to Romney).

Talk about an interesting demographic.  The other Republicans are absolutely clueless with this up-and-coming demographic.  Say what you want about Ron Paul, but no one can call him "unelectable" any longer.  He's arguably the most electable Republican candidate, and if not the most electable, he'd be second.

I think we're witnessing something very special and historic this election.

The Republican party has to decide whether they want to change with the times, or risk becoming completely irrelevant and quite possibly disappear very soon.  These 20, 30, and 40-somethings are going to go somewhere if the Republican party treats them like crap. 

They want a balanced budget.
They don't like endless war and attacks on our civil liberties.
They don't hate gays (shocker, I know).
They don't think people who smoke weed should be in jail.
They don't want your handouts, they just want to be respected and left alone.
They think the government should follow the Constitution most of the time (another shocker).

Republican party -- this is your new base, if you want it.  If not, just keeping calling Dr. Paul "crazy" and start picking out your plot in the graveyard of political parties.  We'll do the digging.

jcarter

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Re: American Political Thread
« Reply #86 on: December 25, 2011, 02:27:19 PM »
Quite off topic, but why do European Americans (as opposed to African Americans) refer to native Americans as Indians?

what do black Americans refer to Native Americans as?

brytta.leofa

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Re: American Political Thread
« Reply #87 on: December 26, 2011, 10:12:21 AM »
Ron Paul 2012!!!    :D
...
Republican party -- this is your new base, if you want it.  If not, just keeping calling Dr. Paul "crazy" and start picking out your plot in the graveyard of political parties.  We'll do the digging.

SSH, the Republican Party would profit from a little bit more libertarian bent, and even more so from plain old quality control.  Ron Paul is not the man to take it there.  To put it forcefully: if Paul is the whole future of the Republican party, I'll help dig.


Back on the reservation: Victor Hanson, on Gingrich/Romney.  And being 65% less pretentious than usual!  (Tally one point for each foreign language ejaculation, or two points if the language is dead or Greek.)
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lordcooper

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Re: American Political Thread
« Reply #88 on: December 26, 2011, 10:15:31 AM »
Ah cool, I wasn't really asking with a view to political correctness or anything alone those line.  It was just something that always puzzled me a bit.

what do black Americans refer to Native Americans as?

Dunno, I've never heard a black American referring to a Native American.
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musashi

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Re: American Political Thread
« Reply #89 on: December 26, 2011, 11:30:40 AM »
SSH, the Republican Party would profit from a little bit more libertarian bent, and even more so from plain old quality control.  Ron Paul is not the man to take it there.

Why? Just curious.
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SwanSwanHummingbird

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Re: American Political Thread
« Reply #90 on: December 26, 2011, 02:08:24 PM »
Ron Paul 2012!!!    :D
...
Republican party -- this is your new base, if you want it.  If not, just keeping calling Dr. Paul "crazy" and start picking out your plot in the graveyard of political parties.  We'll do the digging.

SSH, the Republican Party would profit from a little bit more libertarian bent, and even more so from plain old quality control.  Ron Paul is not the man to take it there.  To put it forcefully: if Paul is the whole future of the Republican party, I'll help dig.

[...]

You say this as he is in the process of taking it there. 

The Tea Party sprung up around Paul's campaign in '07.  Plus, Paul has changed the national conversation.  You can tell that just by listening to the language the other candidates use in the debates -- a sizable portion of their talking points, issues, and lines come directly from Paul.  Has Newt Gingrich ever said the phrase "in a free society" or talked about auditing the Federal Reserve before?  Not at all, but now he says it all the time.  There are many other examples, I'd have to go through the videos to find them, but the point is that when Paul talks, the other candidates take notes.  They want to try to sound exactly like him, except on foreign policy of course.

That's because the things Paul says are popular with the base.  And more than that... it's because Paul's philosophy is really the only game in town.  None of the other candidates have a consistent platform or philosophy.  Reagan himself said "Libertarianism is the heart and soul of Conservatism."  This philosophy of Conservatism is what the Republicans should believe.  It's the idea of small, limited government and of conserving the good things about our heritage and system, such as the Constitution.

Some people say Ron Paul isn't a Republican, which is bizarre.  Ron Paul is really the only Republican up there, because the others have sold out their principles a long time ago, if they ever had any.  They are big government "conservatives" without any coherent philosophy.

As far as him being or not being the man to take us there, why wouldn't we want:

Someone who has never voted for a tax increase.
Someone who the lobbyists don't even try to bribe, because they know it won't do any good.
Someone who votes no on all the wasteful spending.
Someone who sticks up for the Constitution and the Bill of Rights when almost no one else does.
Someone who returns a portion of his Congressional office budget every year -- talk about fiscally conservative!
Someone who knows the ins and outs of Congress as well as anyone, but has never been corrupted by its influence.
Someone who we can trust, if only because he's done and said the same thing for 30 years.

Would you really rather have someone like Romney, who flip-flops on everything, even important issues, and doesn't seem to have a real core of beliefs?  This kind of person will never make any meaningful change, they essentially have been co-opted already and isn't even waiting until they get elected!  Or someone like Gingrich who will not only listen to lobbyists, but who is actually a lobbyist themselves?  Someone who takes a million bucks from Freddie Mack and then has a gall to say that we should go after those who profited from them?  Someone who was fined $300,000 for ethics violations and forced to resign in disgrace?

These kind of corrupt sellout politicians are the ones who have been ruining the country.  We absolutely cannot afford to let another one of them into the White House.

flurry

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Re: American Political Thread
« Reply #91 on: December 26, 2011, 02:31:41 PM »
Ron Paul's done a poor job addressing the racist newsletter issue. I don't see how he wasn't aware of that at the time it was going on. No one thought to mention it to him?
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brytta.leofa

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Re: American Political Thread
« Reply #92 on: December 26, 2011, 05:09:17 PM »
SSH, the Republican Party would profit from a little bit more libertarian bent, and even more so from plain old quality control.  Ron Paul is not the man to take it there.

Why? Just curious.

I'm going to pull a musashi on you this once and say that the reasons for my stance (shared by most right-thinking people, heh, get it?) are widely understood and well-documented, including within this very thread.




All right, I can't stand it: eccentric monetary policy; eccentric foreign policy; annoying fans.
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musashi

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Re: American Political Thread
« Reply #93 on: December 26, 2011, 06:36:08 PM »
I'm more the type to inundate you with widely understood and well-documented source material than just allude to it.

I could do digging for "why the right wing hates Ron Paul" information but there is honestly so much batshit crazy stuff on the fringes of the conservative right that I wouldn't want to mistakingly attribute some of that to you, brytta.
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RogueGunslinger

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Re: American Political Thread
« Reply #94 on: December 26, 2011, 09:38:30 PM »
Ron Paul's done a poor job addressing the racist newsletter issue. I don't see how he wasn't aware of that at the time it was going on. No one thought to mention it to him?

Your answer is out there. This racist newsletter thing came up many months ago.

boog

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musashi

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Re: American Political Thread
« Reply #96 on: December 27, 2011, 01:04:00 AM »
Ron Paul's done a poor job addressing the racist newsletter issue. I don't see how he wasn't aware of that at the time it was going on. No one thought to mention it to him?

Your answer is out there. This racist newsletter thing came up many months ago.

Link?
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RogueGunslinger

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Re: American Political Thread
« Reply #97 on: December 27, 2011, 01:19:58 AM »
Ron Paul's done a poor job addressing the racist newsletter issue. I don't see how he wasn't aware of that at the time it was going on. No one thought to mention it to him?

Your answer is out there. This racist newsletter thing came up many months ago.

Link?

Wait I thought I was pulling a musashi....

:P  Anyways his response has been something akin to "I didn't read or write those newsletters before they were sent off. There were thousands and thousands of newsletter, I'm not a racist."

This was actually something that came up during his last campaign, apparently. 


This is what ya'll are talking about, yeah?

Bacon

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Re: American Political Thread
« Reply #98 on: December 27, 2011, 01:29:57 AM »
So his answer was: "I'll tell you what I can that doesn't implicate me having anything to do with it without providing any facts. Now on to other things..."
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RogueGunslinger

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Re: American Political Thread
« Reply #99 on: December 27, 2011, 01:34:00 AM »
Was it? I'm having a hard time considering what "facts" he could have possibly given.