Author Topic: American Political Thread  (Read 93643 times)

RogueGunslinger

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American Political Thread
« on: December 11, 2011, 11:24:13 PM »
Other one got locked and I like to see people chat about... you know, one of the more important things going on right now in the USA. NO FLAMING/BAITING YOU DOUCHE-MONGERS Please keep snide comments away from this thread.

I'm still leaning towards Paul. Media is telling us Gingrich is up in polls. Hermie pretty much shot his campaign in the foot. Perry has fallen quite a bit, and Bachman been practically left out of most coverage.

The debates seem like entertainment shows lately. Very not serious feeling at all.



Someone posted this on my facebook. Ron Pauls straw poll wins. I haven't been able to check if it's valid though because I have no idea where he got the info, or where to get it from. My google fu is fail.

Quote
Ron Paul has garnered 19 GOP Presidential Straw Poll wins -- more than ANY other GOP candidate -- and ALMOST FIVE TIMES AS MANY as establishment favorite, Mitt Romney. Flavor of the Month, Newt Gingrich, has won ONE straw poll. Ron Paul’s straw poll victories constitute 48.7% of the 39 GOP Straw Polls thus far.

1st - February 12, 2011, Washington, D.C. – CPAC Straw Poll
1st - February 27, 2011 Phoenix, AZ - Tea Party Patriots Virtual Summit Straw Poll
1st - March 20, 2011, Sacramento, California – Republican Liberty Caucus of California Presidential Straw Poll
1st - June 16–18, 2011, New Orleans, Louisiana – Republican Leadership Conference Straw Poll
1st - June 19, 2011, Clay County, Iowa Republican Party Straw Poll
1st - August 20, 2011 New Hampshire Young Republicans Straw Poll
1st - September 12, 2011 Cincinnati Tea Party Straw Poll
1st - September 17, 2011 California GOP Straw Poll
1st - October 7–9, 2011, Washington, D.C. – Values Voter Straw Poll
1st - October 13, 2011, Los Angeles County, California - RPLAC Straw Poll
1st - October 18, 2011, Charleston, South Carolina - Charleston County Republican Party
1st - October 22, 2011, Columbus, Ohio - Ohio GOP Swing State Straw Poll
1st - October 29, 2011, Des Moines, Iowa - National Federation of Republican Assemblies Presidential Straw Poll Tally 1
1st - October 29, 2011, Des Moines, Iowa - National Federation of Republican Assemblies Presidential Straw Poll Tally 2
1st - November 5, 2011, Illinois - Illinois Straw Poll
1st - November 14, 2011, North Charleston, South Carolina - Charleston County Republican Party Straw Poll
1st - November 14, 2011, San Diego, California - San Diego GOP Straw poll
1st - November 15, 2011, Springfield, Missouri - Missouri Tea Party Straw poll
1st - November 19, 2011, North Carolina- NC Registered Republicans Straw Poll

Ron Paul's 2nd Place GOP Straw Poll results:

2nd - January 22, 2011, Derry, New Hampshire – New Hampshire Straw Poll
2nd - (Statistical Tie for 1st) - August 13, 2011 Iowa Straw Poll, Hilton Coliseum in Ames, Iowa.
2nd - (Statistical Tie for 1st) - August 27, 2011 Georgia State GOP Straw Poll
2nd - October 29, 2011, Tuscaloosa, Alabama; West Alabama Straw Poll
2nd - November 19, 2011, Rockford, Illinois - Memorial Hall Straw Poll

Anyways I find it interesting how much flux there is in the new "front runners" who show up for a few months. It really makes it impossible to tell who's really popular and who's just being coddled by the media.

RogueGunslinger

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Re: American Political Thread
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2011, 11:45:23 PM »
Here we go http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_polls_for_the_Republican_Party_presidential_primaries,_2012

Also just realized I forgot the "candidates" portion of the thread title, whatevs.

Synthesis

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Re: American Political Thread
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2011, 11:48:23 PM »
Listen, I know that reason is rarely strong enough to counteract wishful thinking, but I'm going to throw this out there anyway:  straw polls are not necessarily representative samples of the electorate. 
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brytta.leofa

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Re: American Political Thread
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2011, 11:56:18 PM »
My days of not taking Ron Paul seriously are coming to a definite middle.

I think he fails Republican primaries, even in ideology-heavy years, for two reasons:
(1) His fiscal theories are enough out of the mainstream that people fear he might trigger a new Depression.
(2) His foreign policy view are enough out of the mainstream that people fear he might queue up another world war.


Here's yesterday's debate, by the way:
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boog

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Re: American Political Thread
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2011, 11:59:13 PM »
The only Republican I would feel comfortable with as my president is Jon Huntsman.
Case: he's more likely to shoot up a mcdonalds for selling secret obama sauce on its big macs
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RogueGunslinger

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Re: American Political Thread
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2011, 12:07:42 AM »
Listen, I know that reason is rarely strong enough to counteract wishful thinking, but I'm going to throw this out there anyway:  straw polls are not necessarily representative samples of the electorate. 

Obviously. Doesn't make them entirely meaningless.

adrien

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Re: American Political Thread
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2011, 12:15:23 AM »
ron paul is a good person to keep in mind, a president that wants to bring troops home wont start a world war, and a lot of the problems in the states are so extraordinary that you might need someone that thinks outside the box from time to time.


I dont keep up with the Republican stuff except what i see on the Daily show with Jon Stewert.

and il be honest I live in a Semi socialist country called Canada so Im use to a very different political show, if we dont like our leader we can kick him out anytime, or we can keep him in for 20 years if we like the guy in charge.

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Bacon

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Re: American Political Thread
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2011, 12:19:24 AM »
I trust the republican candidates even less than I trust the current president.
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Fathi

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Re: American Political Thread
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2011, 12:26:25 AM »
The only Republican I would feel comfortable with as my president is Jon Huntsman.

The last time I lived in America, he was my governor.

Not too shabby, Mr. Huntsman.

Also, whenever he gave addresses or anything, the radio station would preface it with
Out of all those kinds of people, you got a face with a view
I'm just an animal looking for a home
Share the same space for a minute or two

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adrien

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Re: American Political Thread
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2011, 03:03:26 AM »
I trust the republican candidates even less than I trust the current president.

i can honestly see Obama getting a 2nd term.

such a crappy choice this time for Republicans they make Bush look great.

btw side note, there is a small chance the next time Bush and cheany comes to canada they could get arrested for war crimes and human right violations
the Swiss already said they would arrest them lol
 
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Ktavialt

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Re: American Political Thread
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2011, 03:17:48 AM »
I trust the republican candidates even less than I trust the current president.

i can honestly see Obama getting a 2nd term.

such a crappy choice this time for Republicans they make Bush look great.

btw side note, there is a small chance the next time Bush and cheany comes to canada they could get arrested for war crimes and human right violations
the Swiss already said they would arrest them lol
 
Call me a conspiracy theorist but I think the Democrats/Republicans got a "you get prez for 2 terms, we get prez for 2 terms ok buddy?" thing going now.  There's an entire country of potential Republican candidates and these are the best they can get?  They threw in the towel last election, and will do the same this election.

Obama will win again.  We'll have a republican president win 2016/2020.  You heard it here folks.

Nao

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Re: American Political Thread
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2011, 08:33:05 AM »
Maybe they just don't care to win in the current economy.

If you look at surveys instead of straw polls, Ron Paul is scratching at 10% or less in most states. Iowa and new Hampshire seem to like him. Maybe there's more, but I got tired of scrolling.
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Cutthroat

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Re: American Political Thread
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2011, 08:47:34 AM »
Onion article: a few months old, still sadly true in my opinion. I don't see any of the major candidates as "serious", excluding Huntsman, whose relative moderation leaves him low in the polls and, as a result, out of debates. I think the fact that Newt Gingrich is the front-runner in a party that claims to fight partly for social conservatism is a hypocritical disgrace. I think the whole revolving door front-runner phenomenon is an effort to get anyone but Romney into the general election, because he's seen as bland, or somehow, too liberal.

That said, OP said that these primaries are important. Well, they certainly should be, but I don't see the Republican politicians taking it that way. At least until recently, when a small shred of seriousness revealed itself when most of them bowed out of the debate Donald Trump was going to moderate. But from the endless, repetitive debates, to the utterly stupid, hypocritical, or untrue things they are caught saying, I think a lot of people here in the USA and around the world see this as some kind of circus. But for the most part it looks like the GOP is planning on throwing the general election so their party doesn't take the backlash for any failures (Republican obstruction-generated or otherwise), particularly economic ones, that Obama might suffer in his second term.

P.S. I didn't include Ron Paul in anything I said above. If he actually believes in the things he says, how he's in the Republican Party is beyond me. He should be running as a Libertarian. If he actually cared about the ideology he talks about, he wouldn't be worried about the disadvantages that come from running as a minor party candidate (which, to his credit, he has apparently wanted to fix). But his views aren't in line with today's GOP at all.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2011, 08:49:26 AM by Cutthroat »

brytta.leofa

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Re: American Political Thread
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2011, 10:04:52 AM »
RedState.org editor and CNN contributor Erik Erickson is another unexpected voice lately arguing that Huntsman might just be the real conservative in the race: "His record as a governor is more conservative than Newt Gingrich and Mitt Romney combined. He is more pro-life than either of them. He is more economically wedded to the free market than either of them. He has better foreign policy experience than either of them. Huntsman should be a conservative hero in this race."

Interesting.  If Erickson is (willing to be) on his side...

Y'all promise to vote for Huntsman instead of President Obama if I get him nominated?
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The arrow swift, the Gate is strong.
The heart is bold that looks on gold;
The dwarves no more shall suffer wrong.

Marauder Moe

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Re: American Political Thread
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2011, 10:58:20 AM »
RedState.org editor and CNN contributor Erik Erickson is another unexpected voice lately arguing that Huntsman might just be the real conservative in the race: "His record as a governor is more conservative than Newt Gingrich and Mitt Romney combined. He is more pro-life than either of them. He is more economically wedded to the free market than either of them. He has better foreign policy experience than either of them. Huntsman should be a conservative hero in this race."

Interesting.  If Erickson is (willing to be) on his side...

Y'all promise to vote for Huntsman instead of President Obama if I get him nominated?
No, but I'll promise not to call him a Nazi or anything (unless, of course, he invades Poland).

musashi

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Re: American Political Thread
« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2011, 11:01:28 AM »
I feel like Ron Paul has more of a chance at getting the nod than Jon Huntsman. Hasn't Huntsman been doing appalling in just about any poll one cares to look at?
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brytta.leofa

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Re: American Political Thread
« Reply #16 on: December 12, 2011, 11:07:31 AM »
I feel like Ron Paul has more of a chance at getting the nod than Jon Huntsman. Hasn't Huntsman been doing appalling in just about any poll one cares to look at?

Yeah, but he's in the volatily-fortuned list of candidates who aren't Mitt Romney. Everybody is getting a hurried second look, and I really don't see Santorum or Bachmann holding up.
The sword is sharp, the spear is long,
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Marauder Moe

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Re: American Political Thread
« Reply #17 on: December 12, 2011, 11:09:52 AM »
Bachmann terrifies us liberals.  She'd drive us to the polls in record numbers.

brytta.leofa

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Re: American Political Thread
« Reply #18 on: December 12, 2011, 11:19:38 AM »
In the first ten minutes of Saturday's debate, I think I caught Santorum promising to cut to nil the corporate income tax of businesses he favors.  (To wit, domestic manufacturers.)
The sword is sharp, the spear is long,
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The heart is bold that looks on gold;
The dwarves no more shall suffer wrong.

Nao

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Re: American Political Thread
« Reply #19 on: December 12, 2011, 11:47:27 AM »
Here's the poll results I wanted to link earlier, but forgot:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statewide_opinion_polling_for_the_Republican_Party_%28United_States%29_presidential_primaries,_2012

I actuallz watched three of those debates this weekend while cleaning my room and doing some laundry. The Fox/google debate was worst, or maybe I got desensitized after that. But they did make me wonder how they can get away with saying so much bullshit and still get votes. Probably because at least, they're not Obama.

In the first ten minutes of Saturday's debate, I think I caught Santorum promising to cut to nil the corporate income tax of businesses he favors.  (To wit, domestic manufacturers.)
Don't remember who it was, but someone did.
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valeria

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Re: American Political Thread
« Reply #20 on: December 12, 2011, 12:51:42 PM »
At least the debates have been really entertaining.  It amused me a lot when Romney pointed out (about Gingrich) that if you cheat on your wife you will probably cheat on your business partners.  There have been some low blows and some people saying really ridiculous things (Perry and Cain come to mind).

It still seems to me to be a race between Romney and not-Romney (Bachman-Perry-Cain... Gingrich, it's like they're taking turns).  Unfortunately, everyone who is not-Romney is someone that makes me grind my teeth for one reason or another.  Except for Paul and Huntsman.  Paul, I'm with the people who aren't exactly sure why he's in this race and not running as an independent.  Huntsman, I just don't know enough about him.  Maybe he'll take a turn after Gingrich and I'll learn a few things.
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Marauder Moe

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Re: American Political Thread
« Reply #21 on: December 12, 2011, 01:04:38 PM »
I don't think it's a "low blow" when Family Values is a prominent feature of the party platform.

Go figure that people would abandon Cain for rumors (which he always denied) of adultery, and then flock to Gingrich.  ::)

deathnight

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Re: American Political Thread
« Reply #22 on: December 12, 2011, 01:51:57 PM »
I think the person doing PR for the republicans needs to be shot, resurrected as a zombie and than shot again. Romney making a frivolous 10,000 dollar public bet with Perry, for something he knew Perry was right about in the first place, meanwhile there is OWS movement going on, made me chuckle and shake my head.

lordcooper

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Re: American Political Thread
« Reply #23 on: December 12, 2011, 03:10:04 PM »
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/gingrich-end-fed-focus-jobs-focus-only-inflation-141508938.html

My knowledge of US politics (particularly the right wing side of it) is pitiful, but surely this is akin to shooting yourself in the foot, especially at this moment in time.
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valeria

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Re: American Political Thread
« Reply #24 on: December 12, 2011, 03:16:15 PM »
Romney making a frivolous 10,000 dollar public bet with Perry, for something he knew Perry was right about in the first place...

Most people would not agree that Perry was right in the first place.   Factcheck.org says Perry's accusation was false.  PolitiFact includes the debate transcript, the text of both books, and also says the accusation was false. And the LA times says Romney would have won the bet. 
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