What does the Labyrinth look like?

[Incognito]

There has been some talk about city-terrain and desert terrain and navigation in the two types of terrains for c-elves and d-elves.

For those who have not seen the movie "Slumdog Millionaire", I'm posting a few pictures of Dharavi - the Shadow City - Asia's largest slum - which lies within the heart of Mumbai City.

It should give us all an idea of what a slum looks like, and what the Labyrinth might appear-as, on Zalanthas, and also highlight that it is definitely not an easy terrain to navigate through, what with all the nooks, crannies, haphazard building structures in dilapidated condition, and unplanned alleys which bend and turn without warning, sometimes ending in dead-ends. Even during the daytime, light barely filters in to the narrow alleyways!


An overview of the Labyrinth, during daytime.


The light of dawn filters through over the rooftops.


Dilapidated two-story buildings next to a garbage-filled gutter canal.


A dead-end in a dark alleyway.

I think these pictures are a good-enough example, to support the idea that c-elves on Zalanthas must have evolved to attain a bonus for navigating through this type of terrain, AND, that desert-elves would definitely NOT find this terrain as easy to traverse, as the great outdoors of Zalanthas.

[HavokBlue]

I generally picture the buildings as being taller than that, for whatever reason.

[Incognito]

If you notice the room descs in the Rinth alleys and within the structures in the Rinth, you'll notice that most of the buildings are one-storied, with possibly an open roof atop them. Some are two-storied, and, there are some exceptions which are 2+ storied.

The pictures of the slums I've posted, would pretty much be an accurate reflection of the building heights in the Rinth.

[Qzzrbl]

I remember reading somewhere a while back that the Labyrinth was once originally build to be the new merchant's quarter....

So keep that in mind as well.

Some of those places were once fancy.

[X-D]

Rocky badlands


Stepps and scrub


Rocky scrub


desert canyon


Bleh, yup, wilderness, just a run in central park.

Get real, some trash over nice flat paved roads would still be easier.

Oh, and let me add, area southeast of nak

[jriley]

If you notice the room descs in the Rinth alleys and within the structures in the Rinth, you'll notice that most of the buildings are one-storied, with possibly an open roof atop them. Some are two-storied, and, there are some exceptions which are 2+ storied.

The pictures of the slums I've posted, would pretty much be an accurate reflection of the building heights in the Rinth.

Agreed.  Some people have inaccurate impressions of the way that life in the Labyrinth would be, or the way that it would look.  Thank you for the inspiration.

[slipshod]

I remember reading somewhere a while back that the Labyrinth was once originally build to be the new merchant's quarter....

What he said.  That part of the city was originally a Merchant Quarter, and the current slums are built on, in and around the remnants of those old buildings.

And XD, the first two pictures in your post are dead links, but my favorite rocky badlands picture was the one in this old post of mine.  Check it out!

[X-D]

Hhhmmm, they show up for me....but here, paste it into your address bar, http://www.planetware.com/i/photo/badlands-national-park-south-dakota-sd103.jpg

South dakota badlands are the shit.

[manipura]

The link isn't working either....I'll just search for a photo to get an idea of what you're trying to show. 
I have to agree that I believe the 'Rinth to be quite like the images of the slums that Incognito posted originally. 

[Incognito]

Rocky badlands

Stepps and scrub

Rocky scrub

desert canyon

Bleh, yup, wilderness, just a run in central park.

Get real, some trash over nice flat paved roads would still be easier.

Oh, and let me add, area southeast of nak

X-D, I agree, the outdoor terrain pictures you've posted do appear to pose a high level of difficulty to navigate, especially for city-bred elves.

My point was to highlight that the rinthi terrain is quite different from any other "outdoor" place in Zalanthas, and as such, city-bred elves who would have evolved to navigate it over centuries, would be able to travel through it with considerably higher ease than their desert-bred cousins.

I'll give metaphorical examples: Consider a llama or a mountain goat - both adept at negotiating outdoor terrains atop steep mountains. And then consider sewer rats and alley cats - also adept at traveling in their own environment. Both sets of creatures are well-suited to their own terrain, but if you were to drop them into the other kind of terrain, they would in most probabilities, find it difficult to adapt.

Hence my argument on giving city elves a bonus on man-made roads, and desert-elves a penalty on man-made roads. The idea being, to preserve a realistic balance for both sub-races of the elven race.

[bcw81]

How long have the C-Elves been living in the 'Rinth and interbreeding? 0.o Evolution involves millions of years to have any dramatic effect. Maybe they are used to the streets, but unless everyone in the 'Rinth has -only- been interbreeding for a hundred years+ and not letting new people in then...

Sorry, I'll go back to my newb hidey hole now.

[Lizzie]

How long have the C-Elves been living in the 'Rinth and interbreeding? 0.o Evolution involves millions of years to have any dramatic effect. Maybe they are used to the streets, but unless everyone in the 'Rinth has -only- been interbreeding for a hundred years+ and not letting new people in then...

Sorry, I'll go back to my newb hidey hole now.

"Look ma, a noob! Can we keep him, huh huh huh?"

C-elves have been in the rinth for as long as there's been a rinth, so far as I know. But when you say interbreeding, if you mean all one family, you'd be incorrect. The rinth, is just the slums. Like Harlem used to be in New York, or East Los Angeles in California. Lots and lots and lots of families, so you don't get stuck boinking your own cousin or anything like that. Though if you really want to, there's nothing to stop it.

[Rotten]

As a slum, the 'Rinth has been terribly represented.  Just look at it.  A bunch of alleyways described as empty with a few toughs spread in between to make it feel dangerous.  Almost all of the buildings are described as abandoned, not packed with unfortunates just trying to find a place to rest their weary heads.  Apparently, everything is supposed to smell like piss and death, but there's not enough people pissing and dying to support that!  There are a few NPCs and other places spread about to suggest there's more going on, but it's piecemeal.

There's no great, pressing mass of inhabitants.  There's little to no commerce beyond the elves and one local feeding off another.  So why the hell do we still consider the 'Rinth to be heavily populated?

If you want a real-world approximation of the 'Rinth, you won't find one easily.  Most societies wouldn't stand for such a thing.  Imagine a fine city going to ruin and left to a few scavenging groups of nomads.  That's the 'Rinth.

[Thunkkin]

And however long c-elves may or may not have been adapting to city life ... it hasn't been long enough for them to realize that, "hey, I can't run at all in the desert."  Thus, they still have intense pride in their desert running non-abilities.  Silly elves.

[Wolfsong]

If you want a real-world approximation of the 'Rinth, you won't find one easily. 

What about something like Kadykchan?

[Malifaxis]

Now, mind you, I'm usually wrong because I don't know shit about this game... however, this is how I always pictured it.

[X-D]

I know what you are getting at Incog, I just do not agree and I think the balance is already there...Well, what balance there needs to be. Starting with the fact that delves are a karma restricted race that is not even aloud to live in a city.

Next, come on, a road is a road, it is flat, it is smooth, it is usually pretty straight. If you move a llama or a cat or a rat onto a road they will be able to move with greater ease and speed then through trees, underbrush and mountains.

As a matter of fact, when you consider that celves travel city roads, which are much shorter distances then the miles and miles of wilderness road that delves can and do travel every day, you would think celves would be weaker then they are.

But in the end, shadowed by building, sporting some trash and people...a road, is still a flat surface to travel on and the point to a road is to make that travel easier...for everybody.

[HavokBlue]

If you want a real-world approximation of the 'Rinth, you won't find one easily. 

What about something like Kadykchan?

I've heard Pripyat is the same way. There are still like a few thousand people that live in the city and refuse to leave or something.

[MeTekillot]

I imagine it being dark greyish, dirty, with tall buildings interspersed around smaller building and everything is always partially shadowed.

[jriley]

As a slum, the 'Rinth has been terribly represented.  Just look at it.  A bunch of alleyways described as empty with a few toughs spread in between to make it feel dangerous.  Almost all of the buildings are described as abandoned, not packed with unfortunates just trying to find a place to rest their weary heads.  Apparently, everything is supposed to smell like piss and death, but there's not enough people pissing and dying to support that!  There are a few NPCs and other places spread about to suggest there's more going on, but it's piecemeal.

There's no great, pressing mass of inhabitants.  There's little to no commerce beyond the elves and one local feeding off another.  So why the hell do we still consider the 'Rinth to be heavily populated?

If you want a real-world approximation of the 'Rinth, you won't find one easily.  Most societies wouldn't stand for such a thing.  Imagine a fine city going to ruin and left to a few scavenging groups of nomads.  That's the 'Rinth.

Yeah.  The Labyrinth is one of the ways that this game has let me down.  It could be so cool if it were brushed up a little.

[RogueGunslinger]

As a slum, the 'Rinth has been terribly represented.  Just look at it.  A bunch of alleyways described as empty with a few toughs spread in between to make it feel dangerous.  Almost all of the buildings are described as abandoned, not packed with unfortunates just trying to find a place to rest their weary heads.  Apparently, everything is supposed to smell like piss and death, but there's not enough people pissing and dying to support that!  There are a few NPCs and other places spread about to suggest there's more going on, but it's piecemeal.

There's no great, pressing mass of inhabitants.  There's little to no commerce beyond the elves and one local feeding off another.  So why the hell do we still consider the 'Rinth to be heavily populated?

If you want a real-world approximation of the 'Rinth, you won't find one easily.  Most societies wouldn't stand for such a thing.  Imagine a fine city going to ruin and left to a few scavenging groups of nomads.  That's the 'Rinth.

Yeah.  The Labyrinth is one of the ways that this game has let me down.  It could be so cool if it were brushed up a little.

I'd prefer a massive overhall and change. But I'll just have to wait for 2.arm for anything that cool. Like the mud-place, in that one city (you see how much my interest has dwindled, I'm already forgetting names when was the last blog update anyways? :| )

[Betaal]

As a slum, the 'Rinth has been terribly represented.  Just look at it.  A bunch of alleyways described as empty with a few toughs spread in between to make it feel dangerous.  Almost all of the buildings are described as abandoned, not packed with unfortunates just trying to find a place to rest their weary heads.  Apparently, everything is supposed to smell like piss and death, but there's not enough people pissing and dying to support that!  There are a few NPCs and other places spread about to suggest there's more going on, but it's piecemeal.

There's no great, pressing mass of inhabitants.  There's little to no commerce beyond the elves and one local feeding off another.  So why the hell do we still consider the 'Rinth to be heavily populated?

This is one of the issues I always had with the 'Rinth as well, and one of the major areas where I sought to make improvement in the 'Rinth-like area of my Arm 2.0 Settlement, Basal.

I'd prefer a massive overhall and change. But I'll just have to wait for 2.arm for anything that cool. Like the mud-place, in that one city (you see how much my interest has dwindled, I'm already forgetting names when was the last blog update anyways? :| )

The settlement you mention is Basal:
http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php/topic,28628.0.html

And the specific 'Rinth-like area is called the Shallows:
http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php/topic,30399.0.html

And I hope to have a blog ready on some of the wilderness areas I've been developing since completing the main components of Basal, so keep an eye out for that soon.

[Twilight]

I think the key difference isn't necessarily the terrain as much as it is navigation.  Navigating twisting alleys where you can't see any landmarks isn't going to be like navigating the wastes, since the cities are probably not laid out in American style grid pattern but in twists and turns.  This is where the celf should wtfpwn the delf, but it comes down to the delf to RP out their unfamiliarity in order for this to truly be an advantage/disadvantage.

Personally, I think storm navigation, now that it is a skill, should be tweaked.  Rangers get it perfect in the wastes, and with negatives (to subguild ability usuable) in a city, while a (burlar, assassin, pickpocket would be my choice) gets it near perfect in the city (from moving around at night to commit crimes vs navigating sandstorms) but with negatives making it near useless in the wastes (although maybe a subguild to alleviate this).

Edited to add:  Basically, make it so rangers are able to deal with storms, and city sneaks with darkness.

[Delstro]

Well, the 'Rinth was designed as the newest merchant quarter after Allanak was already 200+ years old.

I always imagined expansive buildings with plenty of shops, apartments, wide streets, great artistry, stages, etc.
Then it was abandoned for some reasons and all of those building were neglected. They started to collapse in on themselves and into the streets. Large amounts of humanoids found themselves in capable of doing the only thing they were good at. Trade skills fell off the map after a few generations. A large portion of the population found themselves good at only a few skills, taking from the weak, manipulating the ignorant, and menial labor. With slavery rampant, menial labor is free for the Houses and a useless skill.

A few maintain the family tradition of buying and selling. A few mantain the family tradition of cooking. A few maintain the family tradition of knowing the sewers.

The current descriptions of most of the streets do not fit in my mind of how I would design a quarter around merchants. The quarter itself is missing the escaped slaves, missing children, drug addicts, subjugated masses, and child gangs. I do think that can be solved easily enough though, but someone on staff has to want to do it.

[Vanth]

Not really Labyrinthine, but the foreground is Juarez, Mexico.  In the background is El Paso, Texas, just across the US border.  In case you needed inspiration for the disparity between noble and commoner.