Author Topic: Gemmed Treatment and Roleplay v.68468176981435  (Read 11866 times)

Niamh

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Re: Gemmed Treatment and Roleplay v.68468176981435
« Reply #200 on: March 20, 2010, 09:44:55 AM »
There are two "indoor" rooms in this meeting place for gemmed.  No, there is no message board, because there is no need for one.  ICly, gemmed are lucky to have what they have in Allanak.  It's a lot more than anyone else would give them.  The other alternative is going rogue and not knowing for sure if you will ever have a safe place to go, much less a roof over your head and the chance to safely interact with others like you, or legally make a living doing all the dirty things a magicker does.  This is the closest to a safe haven that your average magicker will ever have, because of the attitude of the entire world towards magick.  Not only are magickers free to practice magicks openly and in peace in the designated areas within the Quarter, but they also have the law on their side to protect them if someone tries to screw with them.  Some people do not seem to realize just how big a deal this is.

Perhaps playing a gemmer would be more enjoyable if the focus was on what good things they do have going for them in the Quarter, rather than what everyone else has outside it that the gemmed don't.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2010, 09:46:54 AM by Niamh »
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AmandaGreathouse

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Re: Gemmed Treatment and Roleplay v.68468176981435
« Reply #201 on: March 20, 2010, 11:31:12 AM »
Perhaps playing a gemmer would be more enjoyable if the focus was on what good things they do have going for them in the Quarter, rather than what everyone else has outside it that the gemmed don't.

I couldn't agree more with this particular part of your post if I tried. I think about the only thing I would possibly like to see added/changed in regards to the temple would be to see all temples have a save room. As to a tavern and the like, with my first gemmed, I was definitely up in arms and kind of thought that they should have one. But it's really understandable with the experiences I've had since, why they don't. Personally, I'm kind of glad that staff HASN'T allowed one to be put in. Because there ISN'T an IC reason to put one in, and so much reason not to, and I'd feel a bit like staff was pandering to players rather than being true to the in game world.

As to what could be done to make magickers more scary:

Make their spells not trigger the crim code directly, but instead possibly make any soldiers in line of sight contact the local PC templars and let them know through the Way. Perhaps allow gemmed to wander the city with various effects on them invisible to the naked eye (this would have the dual purpose of keeping gemmed from being 'trapped in their temple' in some instances, and it would also have the additional affect of making at least some people more nervous. Go to a safe, private place? Yeah sure, because you don't see the invisible 'gicker who later on bribes you/reports your doing to their boss/starts fucking with you while you're mutinying privately, etc etc etc). Another idea would be the curse thing, but at the same time, I think this would possibly be difficult to code in a way that's not extremely predictable or somewhat hokey.

I'd like to see some more dealing with element/element dealings, too. Not just magicker/mundane. Like say, with the Mountain of Fire near Allanak, perhaps water elementalists would be a little more misaligned with their element... perhaps they'd be even less looked down on than usual where Nakkis would have a powerful hatred for krathi. Maybe giving gemmed a flag which would activate some sort of set of custom echoes by gemmed guild (like for instance 'You feel uncomfortably hot.' for a krathi, 'The world seems to dim a little as the shadows around you deepen.' for a drovian, and so on.). And this would work more from a playability aspect than simply giving a chance at random echoes on any elementalist of the guild as well. Because as some people would undoubtedly want to point out, some people would want to play rogue mages and it might make it quite difficult. But if you tie it to a universal symbol of being an open, announced, 'official' magicker, it wouldn't ruin anything for those who want to play Jinny the Aide, secret krathi.

Just a couple thoughts.
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Re: Gemmed Treatment and Roleplay v.68468176981435
« Reply #202 on: March 30, 2010, 12:59:11 AM »
Niamh: I don't see a reason for gemmed to not have their own message board that's separated from the "city" message board. In fact, I'd see it as much more realistic to the environment because of the way gemmed are supposed to be interacting (or not interacting) with commoners. I thought a message board was supposed to simulate "rumors" spread between the common people traveling a certain location? That's why the rinthi has their own, separate from the southside's.
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Niamh

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Re: Gemmed Treatment and Roleplay v.68468176981435
« Reply #203 on: March 30, 2010, 08:05:16 AM »
Niamh: I don't see a reason for gemmed to not have their own message board that's separated from the "city" message board. In fact, I'd see it as much more realistic to the environment because of the way gemmed are supposed to be interacting (or not interacting) with commoners. I thought a message board was supposed to simulate "rumors" spread between the common people traveling a certain location? That's why the rinthi has their own, separate from the southside's.

Because the Elementalist Quarter is still a part of Allanak proper, and gemmed mages are still citizens.  They aren't a clan or an area unto themselves, secluded away from everyone else.  If the Quarter ever did get a board, it would be the same board that the taverns throughout the city have in them.
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evil_erdlu

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Re: Gemmed Treatment and Roleplay v.68468176981435
« Reply #204 on: March 30, 2010, 11:57:35 AM »
Note: I got bored after reading up to page 6.. Sorry if I'm repeating stuff from other people.

- How many gemmers are there? Last time I checked off-peak, there were as much as half the mundanes. Why bother going out? I had at least a couple gemmers who felt good enough inside the reclusion of their quarters and I had a lot of fun.

- People hating magickers? Yep.. People being too fearful to attack? Even though since I got my second karma I'm religiously playing several gemmers, I have to decide on something not so advantageous to me, changing my usual standing about this topic. Let me count, from the top of my head, the stupid stuff I read in Turkish newspapers lately: Man told his friend "A true man isn't afraid to be shot." and shot himself on the shoulder. Two teenager girls fought over the attention of a boy, with knives, to death. There was a islamic cult found in a rural area, where the the leader forced his followers to kiss his penis, FOR THE FRIGGING SECOND TIME. (Last similar cult was about 15 years ago. I can't express how much islam is against revealing more than what is to be shown.) To save his bicycle stuck in the tracks, a man got run over by a train. (In the tracks about 100 metres away from my house. The scene was... a Gogh painting..) Man killed another man who told him it is illegal to smoke there. Man killed the policeman who tried to save him from drowning. Fishers who were fined for using an illegal method of fishing protested, stopping traffic. There is a huge group of government clients protesting, because - simply - they want to keep on getting paid for doing nothing in exchange and the media boasts their effort. Boy jumped down the window at the sixth floor to show his affection to his girlfriend. Teenager tortured another teenager with a knife for the account password of one of those multiplayer games....

Do you think people are always clever enough to do what's good for them? http://www.darwinawards.com, go figure. So yes, it is actually very logical to try to bash that immolating, flying, pale skinned individual who's flanked by two demons.

- People harrass your gemmer and you can't do anything about it? Become a tool. Be used by the templerate, offer them loyalty, information, service and honesty. Let the templar punish people for trying to break his tool. Or.. don't be the tool of the templerate. Still go up to a templar and explain, X is harrassing gemmers of the city, you are patient enough to simply ignore him but a couple Suk-Krathis could always visit the same tavern. Beg for forgiveness for bothering the Lord Templar for such a trivial matter and crawl away. You're as much strong as you are useful to the higher-ranking pawns on the table and efficient, clever people prefer Occam's Razor. It's easier to hush a mundane than to tell your higher-ups how that elkran turned everyone in the Gaj to pink ponies or at least have the mess cleaned up.

- Documents are outdated? Ask staff to update them. Mundane folks acting out of the ordinary? If you can't take it IC and act upon it, file a player complaint. A gemmer is acting unrealistically? If you can't take it IC and act upon it, file a player complaint.
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jhunter

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Re: Gemmed Treatment and Roleplay v.68468176981435
« Reply #205 on: March 30, 2010, 12:34:15 PM »
You're citing -exceptions- to what is considered the norm and using them to justify illogical actions as logical. Just because Charles Manson did what he did, that does not make it logical or normal for others to do so. Sure, if your pc is deranged or has a death wish or is an exception to the rule then it's proper rp. It doesn't make it proper rp for -most- pcs.

evil_erdlu

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Re: Gemmed Treatment and Roleplay v.68468176981435
« Reply #206 on: March 31, 2010, 12:42:07 AM »
You're citing -exceptions- to what is considered the norm and using them to justify illogical actions as logical. Just because Charles Manson did what he did, that does not make it logical or normal for others to do so. Sure, if your pc is deranged or has a death wish or is an exception to the rule then it's proper rp. It doesn't make it proper rp for -most- pcs.

You are right. They are exceptions. But it still is a possibility. I have never played a mage with less wisdom than 'extremely good', so my mages would take into account that the dumbass may have a death wish, too.

"You can't attack my character. It is too stupid." "Uh, I just did.". Possible. But you are right, I mastered exaggaration in my last post. Deal with it, my body temperature is currently 38.5 Celcius :)
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Sinna

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Re: Gemmed Treatment and Roleplay v.68468176981435
« Reply #207 on: March 31, 2010, 02:20:54 AM »
Regarding gemmers / temple quarter / boards and such:
 
What if the rinth was extended to include the elementalist quarter?  It's so close and already the elementalist quarter is broken down and messy. 
 
This would give unclanned elementalist the dirt/flith they deserve for being cursed plus an interesting place to RP.

Just a late night thought when I should be working...
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Thunkkin

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Re: Gemmed Treatment and Roleplay v.68468176981435
« Reply #208 on: March 31, 2010, 02:48:28 AM »
By the way, if you're a gemmer who wants to really feel hated, allow me to suggest playing a rinthi' gemmer who is incredibly bad at sucking up to southsiders and unrepentant about his/her origins.  Good times, good times.
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Qzzrbl

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Re: Gemmed Treatment and Roleplay v.68468176981435
« Reply #209 on: March 31, 2010, 12:11:09 PM »
Regarding gemmers / temple quarter / boards and such:
 
What if the rinth was extended to include the elementalist quarter?  It's so close and already the elementalist quarter is broken down and messy.  
 
This would give unclanned elementalist the dirt/flith they deserve for being cursed plus an interesting place to RP.

Just a late night thought when I should be working...

Please no....

Powerful magickers in 'Rinth usually turn into, "Hey, your entire gang of seven PCs doesn't like magickers, I'm gonna kill them all with my magickyness."

And then 'rinth goes through another five months of nobody playing there except magickers.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2010, 03:40:22 PM by Qzzrbl »

chavo

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Re: Gemmed Treatment and Roleplay v.68468176981435
« Reply #210 on: March 31, 2010, 02:42:45 PM »
Just a newbie  question but how would this fit into fearing magickers roleplay?

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    Fear is generally not a lever one can employ with dwarves

A dwarf will just calculate the odds that pissing the magicker off will fuck up his plans or similar as a reason not to piss them off.

Synthesis

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Re: Gemmed Treatment and Roleplay v.68468176981435
« Reply #211 on: March 31, 2010, 02:50:28 PM »
A dwarf might not panic or shit his pants, but that doesn't mean he would initiate a berserker charge, either.

In other words:  it's usually quite difficult to complete your focus if you are dead.  Thus, "staying alive" is probably on the forefront of a dwarf's mind more than anything else.  I think any dwarf would have enough common sense to know that angering a magicker is probably not the best way to go about staying alive.
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Saellyn

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Re: Gemmed Treatment and Roleplay v.68468176981435
« Reply #212 on: April 02, 2010, 09:02:10 AM »
I like the weirdo's who like to RP with the gemmed and interact with them, myself. I also love seeing the Bynner higher-ups react to Gemmed. Sometimes there've been some... AHEM... interesting emotes. And words thrown around. Never any pink ponies, though.

I have to say players, from what I see, do fine. Some people just like to play the people in society who are going to get their throat slit for liking Gemmed. It's a fact.

You have to remember, Gemmed have a lot to offer you. For instance:  how ballin' is it to hang around a dude with a -gem- on his throat? And let's not forget he has MAGIK POWUR. That's always cool. Some people like the unknown. Some peoples chars, for whatever reason, are dim and ignorant to it. Some people might even -use- the Gemmed as a way to keep people off their backs. Nobody really knows. It's up to players to have a good reason for liking the Gemmed, though.

janeshephard

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Re: Gemmed Treatment and Roleplay v.68468176981435
« Reply #213 on: April 05, 2010, 03:09:37 AM »
I have a simple coded solution to helping re-enforce magick hate/fear.

When around magickers your usual skills act at a small penalty. When magickers are around each other their skills/spells act a small bonus. This does not stack. Small is defined, in this context, as just enough to be slightly noticeable to non masters of their skill. Add this to the helpfile on magick.

We'll call this magick aura: the psychological effect most Zalanthians experience around magick. Some guilds/races could be immune as the lore sees fit. Guaranteed to make players think twice about running around with magickers even if they were given IC reasons to. This effect wanes in time if you hang out with a lot of magickers so as not to affect players who do have to do it for their livelihood. They become used to it.

Despite the fact that I think most of the player base are top notch players, the temptation to take advantage of magick instead of despise it can be a little too much out there.


And there was some dwarf smoking spice, and I thought that was so scandalous because I'd only been playing in 'nak.


Akaramu

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Re: Gemmed Treatment and Roleplay v.68468176981435
« Reply #214 on: April 05, 2010, 03:40:05 AM »

You have to remember, Gemmed have a lot to offer you. For instance:  how ballin' is it to hang around a dude with a -gem- on his throat? And let's not forget he has MAGIK POWUR. That's always cool. Some people like the unknown. Some peoples chars, for whatever reason, are dim and ignorant to it. Some people might even -use- the Gemmed as a way to keep people off their backs. Nobody really knows. It's up to players to have a good reason for liking the Gemmed, though.

I can't really say I agree with any of this, at all. Magick is not considered 'cool'.

Malken

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Re: Gemmed Treatment and Roleplay v.68468176981435
« Reply #215 on: April 05, 2010, 04:10:50 AM »

You have to remember, Gemmed have a lot to offer you. For instance:  how ballin' is it to hang around a dude with a -gem- on his throat? And let's not forget he has MAGIK POWUR. That's always cool. Some people like the unknown. Some peoples chars, for whatever reason, are dim and ignorant to it. Some people might even -use- the Gemmed as a way to keep people off their backs. Nobody really knows. It's up to players to have a good reason for liking the Gemmed, though.

I can't really say I agree with any of this, at all. Magick is not considered 'cool'.


The docs and the Staff probably don't agree with it either.
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AmandaGreathouse

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Re: Gemmed Treatment and Roleplay v.68468176981435
« Reply #216 on: April 05, 2010, 04:22:33 AM »
I kind of thought that was meant to be sarcastic and funny, actually.
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Niamh

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Re: Gemmed Treatment and Roleplay v.68468176981435
« Reply #217 on: April 05, 2010, 09:08:31 AM »
I like the weirdo's who like to RP with the gemmed and interact with them, myself. I also love seeing the Bynner higher-ups react to Gemmed. Sometimes there've been some... AHEM... interesting emotes. And words thrown around. Never any pink ponies, though.

I have to say players, from what I see, do fine. Some people just like to play the people in society who are going to get their throat slit for liking Gemmed. It's a fact.

You have to remember, Gemmed have a lot to offer you. For instance:  how ballin' is it to hang around a dude with a -gem- on his throat? And let's not forget he has MAGIK POWUR. That's always cool. Some people like the unknown. Some peoples chars, for whatever reason, are dim and ignorant to it. Some people might even -use- the Gemmed as a way to keep people off their backs. Nobody really knows. It's up to players to have a good reason for liking the Gemmed, though.

I hope this was meant to be sarcastic.
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LoD

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Re: Gemmed Treatment and Roleplay v.68468176981435
« Reply #218 on: April 06, 2010, 04:45:11 PM »
Quote from: Saellyn
You have to remember, Gemmed have a lot to offer you. For instance:  how ballin' is it to hang around a dude with a -gem- on his throat? And let's not forget he has MAGIK POWUR. That's always cool. Some people like the unknown. Some peoples chars, for whatever reason, are dim and ignorant to it. Some people might even -use- the Gemmed as a way to keep people off their backs. Nobody really knows. It's up to players to have a good reason for liking the Gemmed, though.

I hope this was meant to be sarcastic.

It doesn't read sarcastic to me in context with the rest of the post, but I also don't think he/she is necessarily an exception.

Plenty of people rationalize non-violence and non-hatred toward elementalists in-game.  They make such rationalizations because the game is about interactions and a "fear me/hate me" mandate makes for an extremely limited range of possible encounters.

If we consider the following:

"I am friendly with Habutap the Krathi because:"

a) His MAJIK PWURS, they are so cool.
b) He's a powerful ally against my enemies.
c) I don't like it, but I need to employ him, or else my enemy will employ him and use his power against me.
d) I knew him before he manifested, and I still believe there's some good in him.
e) I hate magick, but I love the man/woman.
f) I don't trust magick, but we need it to defeat a common enemy.

Are any of these good reasons to be friendly with a magicker?  I'd imagine many of you would, or did, accept some of these reasons as valid and viable if you needed/wanted to rationalize peaceful interaction with another player.  You may feel that some are acceptable, but others are not, yet they all lead to the same destination, which is a mundane tolerating and even employing, loving, and supporting a magicker.

I've often thought the magick documentation would be difficult to enforce in a unique environment like Allanak.  To some degree, Allanak is a lot like a zoo.  There are very dangerous, powerful, man-eating predators walking not more than a few meters from where you stand, yet, you well know there are measures in place to protect you against them.  You rarely hear of a magicker assaulting someone in a tavern, or in plain daylight before the guards, and have even seen templars and soldiers chase them and keep them in line when they've broken such rules.  The only time people seem to get hurt is when they enter situations where they put themselves at risk, similar to standing too close to the bear enclosure, slipping over the fence of the gorilla habitat, or throwing rocks at the tigers.

If you saw someone at the front of a wilderness preserve talking about the animal dangers along a trail you were about to hike alone, it would probably be mandatory and you would probably listen very carefully to everything they said because the danger would be obvious.  However, if you put that same person in front of a zoo, I doubt even half of the people streaming through the gates would stop to listen to them yammer on about something they well know is an unlikely event.  An event over which most people probably feel some level of individual control, such as where they stand, what part of the parks they visit, and how close they get to the animals.

I've always seen this disparity as one of the major instigators of players struggling with a universal hate/fear reaction to magickers.

-LoD

Salt Merchant

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Re: Gemmed Treatment and Roleplay v.68468176981435
« Reply #219 on: April 06, 2010, 05:40:42 PM »
Quote
There are very dangerous, powerful, man-eating predators walking not more than a few meters from where you stand, yet, you well know there are measures in place to protect you against them.  You rarely hear of a magicker assaulting someone in a tavern, or in plain daylight before the guards, and have even seen templars and soldiers chase them and keep them in line when they've broken such rules.  The only time people seem to get hurt is when they enter situations where they put themselves at risk, similar to standing too close to the bear enclosure, slipping over the fence of the gorilla habitat, or throwing rocks at the tigers.

I don't think comparing magickers to animals is a good analogy. Magickers can communicate and have the power of reason, unlike animals. They can restrain themselves through having foresight of the consequences of their actions. They are capable of empathy and understanding.

Comparing muls to animals might be more apt. Muls, well-played, can be very scary. Because sometimes they -will- snap, regardless of the consequences.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2010, 05:44:14 PM by Salt Merchant »
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LoD

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Re: Gemmed Treatment and Roleplay v.68468176981435
« Reply #220 on: April 06, 2010, 06:06:11 PM »
Quote
There are very dangerous, powerful, man-eating predators walking not more than a few meters from where you stand, yet, you well know there are measures in place to protect you against them.  You rarely hear of a magicker assaulting someone in a tavern, or in plain daylight before the guards, and have even seen templars and soldiers chase them and keep them in line when they've broken such rules.  The only time people seem to get hurt is when they enter situations where they put themselves at risk, similar to standing too close to the bear enclosure, slipping over the fence of the gorilla habitat, or throwing rocks at the tigers.

I don't think comparing magickers to animals is a good analogy. Magickers can communicate and have the power of reason, unlike animals. They can restrain themselves through having foresight of the consequences of their actions. They are capable of empathy and understanding.

Comparing muls to animals might be more apt. Muls, well-played, can be very scary. Because sometimes they -will- snap, regardless of the consequences.

I wasn't really trying to compare magickers to vicious animals in any other way than that they both can represent a powerful and potentially deadly threat to the general population.  What I really meant to compare were the two environments, both of which were designed with specific attention to allowing dangerous elements to coexist with the general populace.  In both environments, there are checks and balances in place to ensure that the more wild and dangerous element does not accidentally or incidentally harm the much larger population.  And I also wanted to draw attention to the similarities that could develop between how someone would treat such a dangerous element, like a tiger (something most people would greatly fear) in the wild compared to how they would treat one in a zoo.

Granted, the situations aren't the same, but the existence of measures that serve as a buffer between the two elements can contribute to how characters may play out their fear of magick in the wilderness compared to within the walls of Allanak.

-LoD

Jdr

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Re: Gemmed Treatment and Roleplay v.68468176981435
« Reply #221 on: April 06, 2010, 11:13:44 PM »
I've never been pleasant to gemmers, but nowadays after playing FF13 I treat them like fal'cie, and I'm from Eden, Cocoon.
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Saellyn

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Re: Gemmed Treatment and Roleplay v.68468176981435
« Reply #222 on: April 07, 2010, 08:34:36 AM »
I was -definitely- being sarcastic with the reasoning. If I want to tangle and tick the guy that could blow me up off, I'll have a damn good reason to do it. Otherwise, I'm not gonna push my luck any more than I do with every char I've ever played.