Author Topic: I'd like to discourage...  (Read 18341 times)

cyberpatrol_735

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I'd like to discourage...
« on: August 08, 2009, 03:14:40 AM »
IG Posts like these:

Quote
A tall muscular man was around asking for Templar Malik. He says he wants to become a soldier.. He said his name was Amos.

The boards are for rumors.. not job postings.

Thanks.
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evil_erdlu

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Re: I'd like to discourage...
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2009, 05:12:11 AM »
Let's think it in another way. Let's say you want to work for employer X. But you can't meet employer X, so that you're forced to write a gossip.

Let's say you're hired somehow.. Then what? The first payday, you'll not be able to meet employer X again. Will you post another gossip, "Malik seeks Employer X to receive his monthly salary."?

I agree with above. If you can't meet the employer IC, don't bother even thinking about that job. You and your employer will barely be able to meet, you'll die out of boredom, you'll retire. Useless.
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Niamh

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Re: I'd like to discourage...
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2009, 07:17:03 AM »
The purpose of the "boards" in the game are for gossip and rumors that the entire city would be talking about.  It's highly unlikely that the entire city would be talking about one average Amos looking for a job, or looking to talk to one person about one thing.  Those sorts of things are better done by spreading the word through other PCs.

Now if this average Amos was doing something that really, really, really stood out, in front of loads of witnesses, something that would likely set the lips of the other average comoners yapping, that would be something that would be appropriate to post on these boards.
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Cutthroat

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Re: I'd like to discourage...
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2009, 07:41:38 AM »
I think generally posts like this are made by newer players focused on joining a certain clan, and if that's the case I'd like to ENcourage those players to find a leader whose playtimes match with their own.

musashi

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Re: I'd like to discourage...
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2009, 07:49:50 AM »
Also, posts where PC's who are seeking employees are generally quite helpful to new players; and I wouldn't like to see those discouraged because they form a good bridge allowing new players to start interacting with other, more established PCs.
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jcljules

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Re: I'd like to discourage...
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2009, 08:21:48 AM »
I don't like the fact that boards are only supposed to be used for information the entire city would know. Maybe there should be a job board or something of that nature.
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Lizzie

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Re: I'd like to discourage...
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2009, 09:08:27 AM »
How about a job message NPC outside the Byn compound.

Often, there -are- Sergeants, but they're busy with their unit and don't know that a new character is trying to find them. Plus new characters SUCK with the Way and even if they're trying to contact them, might simply be failing all the time.

The job message NPC could be used for potential contracts AND would-be bynners..and could even be streamlined so it's not a typical messages board..it could be something like..

ask npc help

You can ask to JOIN, or you can ask to CONTRACT us for something.

join npc
What name do you go by? (ooc please use a contactable name, type help addkeyword for help)
Amos

contract npc
Who's looking for the contract?
Malik

Byn Sarge shows up...
ask npc news
NPC says, "Amos the green-haired young man is looking to join. Malik the stalwart brunette (Kurac) wants a contract."

NPC says, "Also outstanding is Amos the dark tall man (Borsail, contract) and Malik the dark handsome man (join)."

ask npc delete malik.dark.handsome
ask npc delete amos.dark.tall

Basically it's just giving a single line, with name, sdesc, coded clan if any (maybe that would only show up if the person is wearing a signet or other official clan Livery -and- is clanned by that clan, so the Lirathan's spy wouldn't be detected though this medium), and either contract or join.

And -only- the Sergeant or higher would be able to access the information, and delete it. Anything happening in the last 24 RL hours would be current. Anything older than the last 24 RL hours would be outstanding.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2009, 09:10:45 AM by Lizzie »
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musashi

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Re: I'd like to discourage...
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2009, 09:27:46 AM »
I don't know that all that new code and scripting would be needed. It's a cool idea to be sure, but I think your first idea about a seperate "I'm looking for work/workers" message board would be nice. Say, a board in the market, in a section of the market known to be where folks looking for work/workers gather. That way it would be IC for a rumor about someone needing this type of work/worker to be there.
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AmandaGreathouse

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Re: I'd like to discourage...
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2009, 10:03:35 AM »
Or simply adding something similar to the job board idea in the room of the entrance to the various clan compounds, so that they'd be regularly passed and wouldn't jumble all of the entries together. They'd all be rather concise, containing only info which relates to that particular clan. And it could be used for both looking for employees for that group, and people seeking employment. You could give it a snazzy name, too, something along the lines of:

A petite, waif-like slave stands here, dressed in House Fale colors.
A tall, muscular man stands here, wearing a runners garb and slouching by the gates.
A Kadian slave stands beside the gate, calling out news of the next seasons fashions.

etc etc etc.

Especially if they were made where, like some IG boards, you could <listen keyword> to get the messages.
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Kassindra

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Re: I'd like to discourage...
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2009, 10:12:39 AM »
Or simply adding something similar to the job board idea in the room of the entrance to the various clan compounds, so that they'd be regularly passed and wouldn't jumble all of the entries together. They'd all be rather concise, containing only info which relates to that particular clan. And it could be used for both looking for employees for that group, and people seeking employment. You could give it a snazzy name, too, something along the lines of:

A petite, waif-like slave stands here, dressed in House Fale colors.
A tall, muscular man stands here, wearing a runners garb and slouching by the gates.
A Kadian slave stands beside the gate, calling out news of the next seasons fashions.

etc etc etc.

Especially if they were made where, like some IG boards, you could <listen keyword> to get the messages.

I like that idea. People would go to the gates, talk to the NPC there and the Agents or whoever else works for that House can see it and it makes sense.

musashi

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Re: I'd like to discourage...
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2009, 10:15:12 AM »
Or simply adding something similar to the job board idea in the room of the entrance to the various clan compounds, so that they'd be regularly passed and wouldn't jumble all of the entries together. They'd all be rather concise, containing only info which relates to that particular clan. And it could be used for both looking for employees for that group, and people seeking employment. You could give it a snazzy name, too, something along the lines of:

A petite, waif-like slave stands here, dressed in House Fale colors.
A tall, muscular man stands here, wearing a runners garb and slouching by the gates.
A Kadian slave stands beside the gate, calling out news of the next seasons fashions.

etc etc etc.

Especially if they were made where, like some IG boards, you could <listen keyword> to get the messages.

I like that idea. People would go to the gates, talk to the NPC there and the Agents or whoever else works for that House can see it and it makes sense.

I support this idea as well!
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Krath

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Re: I'd like to discourage...
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2009, 10:22:18 AM »
Lizzie, I think your pretty sexy...But not as sexy as that idea you posted!

I think that would be awesome. Assuming the IMMs have time to code it.
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jcljules

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Re: I'd like to discourage...
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2009, 10:26:49 AM »
People from buying their clothes from NPCs. You don't have to be rich to approach your local Kadian merchant. And instead of a thousand people running around in a 'dusky, green cotton cloak'... you can have cheap, unique clothing. Seriously. Like, how often do you see people in 'a purple cloth aba'? Or 'a tattered, cream colored abaya'? I'm just making those items up, by the way.

 I usually see one of two things: someone in cheap, NPC vendor gear... or in super expensive silks or armor they bought from a PC. There is such a thing as buying simple clothing from PCs.

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musashi

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Re: I'd like to discourage...
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2009, 10:49:52 AM »
For a lot of people though, the first few moments of being in the game are nearly OOC in nature, as you run around buying the clothing you think your PC should have started the game with in the first place.

No one wants to wait on a PC for that.
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cyberpatrol_735

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Re: I'd like to discourage...
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2009, 11:23:33 AM »
Plus new characters SUCK with the Way and even if they're trying to contact them, might simply be failing all the time.

Not anymore.
http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php/topic,35511.0.html


Anyway, I guess my main gripe about it is.. I'd rather see rumors than people looking for people. I know it's newbies a lot of times but perhaps there's some type of alternative that could be discussed and implemented? This isn't just a thread to discourage this type of behavior.. but one to spur ideas of how to fix the underlying problem. hint Hint.
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Thunkkin

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Re: I'd like to discourage...
« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2009, 01:09:18 PM »
A board outside each clan compound is an excellent idea.
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AmandaGreathouse

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Re: I'd like to discourage...
« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2009, 02:34:22 PM »
For a lot of people though, the first few moments of being in the game are nearly OOC in nature, as you run around buying the clothing you think your PC should have started the game with in the first place.

No one wants to wait on a PC for that.
Guilty. Though if I've seen the store -right- after a reboot recently, I'll generally pick the item that's been sold to it, just because it isn't the stock item.
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HTX

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Re: I'd like to discourage...
« Reply #17 on: August 08, 2009, 08:40:16 PM »
People from buying their clothes from NPCs. You don't have to be rich to approach your local Kadian merchant.

Problem with that:

a. my characters are often too broke to afford new clothes after their "starting" equipment (and as mentioned above, I'm not going to buy my starting equipment from a PC 98% of the time). Characters start off with 1000 coins, but in my experience, that money inevitably ends up mostly in NPC hands rather than simulating the PC economy.

b. since clothes don't deteriorate, there's never a need to replace them (the worse which can happen is that they get a tag, such as a bloodied or smelly tag slapped on to them, which is easily removed... if my character cares to remove them)... Unless my character is wealthy, a trend follower, or just likes to look flashy, though most of my characters are too poor to afford that. (I could always emote out my character's clothes been torn, junk them and buy more now and then, though... might have to try that some time.)

c. even if my character did, say, lose their clothes somehow (get mugged?), many of them would just buy cheap replacements from NPCs unless they're more wealthy than your average commoner. So again, the demand is usually only coming from more wealthier characters.

e. NPCs provide a decent range of clothes, everything from rags to high quality silks. Maybe there's many "unique" or rare items out there which are rarely sold by NPCs, but as an off-peaker I often don't have the patience to find a PC merchant when NPCs usually provide everything my character would need (if not everything my characters want).

The result? I've rarely bought from a PC merchant. I'd imagine other players are put off from buying from PC merchants for similar reasons. I hope something is done to encourage buying from PC merchants, rather in this game or in Reborn.

jcljules

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Re: I'd like to discourage...
« Reply #18 on: August 08, 2009, 08:48:38 PM »
It just takes some patience and decent PC merchants, honestly. And you're assuming the clothes to be bought would have to be expensive. That's my whole point -- you can buy cheap clothes from PC merchants. And I think we have some decent PC merchants right now.
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HTX

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Re: I'd like to discourage...
« Reply #19 on: August 08, 2009, 09:01:37 PM »
It just takes some patience and decent PC merchants, honestly. And you're assuming the clothes to be bought would have to be expensive. That's my whole point -- you can buy cheap clothes from PC merchants. And I think we have some decent PC merchants right now.

Oh right... yeah I realise that PC crafters can make low-end items, it's just that whenever I think of "Kadius" (as you used in your example), I instantly think of "luxury goods". I think that knee-jerk reaction is partially IC though, since Kadius seems to be intentionally trying to build up a reputation of "luxurious clothes".

None the less... it still feels to me that this game encourages buying from NPCs a lot more than buying from PCs. I was intending to make a separate thread for it in fact..

Lizzie

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Re: I'd like to discourage...
« Reply #20 on: August 08, 2009, 09:20:52 PM »
Kadius already -is- synonymous with luxury clothes. It doesn't have to "build a reputation" for it. But, they have shops north, south, in one village and in one outpost, that offer things -other- than silk, that they make, specifically for commoners.

The PCs who represent that particular house can sell you the SAME THINGS for less than you have to pay for them in the shop. The only caveat: you have to ask them to do so.

It's the same thing with Salarr. Sure, you could buy a full outfit of Salarr-made armor at the Salarr shop. But if you have an -active- Salarr merchant PC who is out and about, and looking to profit, you can buy the same damned suit of armor for less if you'd just offer to buy it from the PC.

Of course, if you can find exactly what you're looking for at some -other- place cheaper, then go for it. But if you're looking for a GMH-made item, and it's shortly after game reset so people with full closets haven't had a chance to unload all their stuff in the markets yet, then you'll save yourself a bundle by simply asking your local PC GMH merchant for the item in question.

The hardest part, after finding your merchant, is making sure they understand what you want, and asking them for something they actually make/sell. Another thing - if it's something you, the player, know that they sell, because you played a merchant 10 years ago and remember creating it, but it never sold and has never been offered since, it is entirely possible that even the staff has no idea this item exists, and the player of the current merchant PC probably doesn't know it exists, and will probably assume it doesn't exist and that your PC is just being difficult.

So if you have to go OOC and say "ooc it's the green-trimmed purple-laced pink polkadotted paisely silk shirt" then do it. It'll save everyone a whole lot of headaches.
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Salt Merchant

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Re: I'd like to discourage...
« Reply #21 on: August 08, 2009, 10:41:32 PM »
My experience with PC merchants (including GMH merchants) is that you more or less have to (1) verify they can make the sort of item you want, (2) bring them the necessary material(s), (3) negotiate a deal and (4) insist that they do the work more or less on the spot.

Otherwise you just never even hear back from them.
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Lizzie

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Re: I'd like to discourage...
« Reply #22 on: August 08, 2009, 11:02:08 PM »
Maybe they just don't like your character and wouldn't get back to you unless they had to :)
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Salt Merchant

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Re: I'd like to discourage...
« Reply #23 on: August 08, 2009, 11:04:38 PM »
Maybe they just don't like your character and wouldn't get back to you unless they had to :)


That's very possible. It's happened across a few characters though. I don't think they were -all- obnoxious.
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musashi

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Re: I'd like to discourage...
« Reply #24 on: August 09, 2009, 03:10:58 AM »
Maybe they just don't like your character and wouldn't get back to you unless they had to :)


That's very possible. It's happened across a few characters though. I don't think they were -all- obnoxious.

Well they are all played by the same player  ;) (Joke, joke)

Buying from PC merchants is all good and well, but the fact remains that 9 times out of 10 they take at least several RL weeks to get back to you with your order while they "wait to get it from the warehouse" ... ie, email the staff, wait for the staff to load the item, and then bump into you again. This isn't the merchant's fault, it's just the way it's done. But because of that, no one wants to typically buy a common item from a PC merchant, and wait weeks on end for it just to save a few 'sid. Most would rather just get it right now from an NPC vendor. This sort of regulates merchants to selling high end "you can't buy it at a shop" items and sales of opportunity, like catching folks while they're shopping in the markets and offering them the goods they're looking for right now at a cheaper price.
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