Author Topic: Discussion of Pregnancy Article  (Read 15330 times)

Lizzie

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Re: Discussion of Pregnancy Article
« Reply #50 on: June 18, 2009, 02:54:02 PM »
My way of doing it right, is to avoid doing it at all. I've had -one- character get pregnant. I stored her because I was disgusted with the whole character concept. My characters are all either infertile, homosexual, male, or virtually, permanently, fixed with mul mix. For the exact reason that I can't -stand- pregnancy/newborn-mommy roleplay. I would never want to impose it on anyone else, the way I've seen it imposed on me.
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Taven

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Re: Discussion of Pregnancy Article
« Reply #51 on: June 18, 2009, 05:30:48 PM »
Thank you for the comments about the actual article.

I may go back and add some of the suggested things. As to be too specific on symptoms, I try to say that your PC may experiance them, not that they for 100% certain will, and I think it's better to show a bigger picture since it makes it easier for someone considering RPing a pregnancy, since there's less to look up, then. I do like the mention of families taking care of babies, I think adding something about that would probably be good.

I would like to say that if you guys want to make a DERAIL in a seperate thread about role-playing pregnancy, birds, etc., that's fine, but let's try to stay on focus here! Which is to say, is the information in the Article helpful? What else would you like to see? What do you think is good or bad?

I'm thinking that a sperate article on child care and raising children might actually be better, as it is a different, if related topic. Also, the article would get to be even longer then it is now, which is long enough, I think.
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Comrade Canadia

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Re: Discussion of Pregnancy Article
« Reply #52 on: June 18, 2009, 06:13:35 PM »
I think I may bite the bullet and start a thread on child-care in the roleplaying section. I'm terrified it's going to suffer the same fate as this thread, but it's a useful discussion. Maybe a good guide can come out of it.

-- As for the symptoms thing, I think you imply that these aren't a hard and fast list, but it may be better to outright state it. The guide's tone isn't authoritative, but I could see somebody misinterpreting it as such.
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Whiran Luck

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Re: Discussion of Pregnancy Article
« Reply #53 on: June 18, 2009, 06:52:40 PM »
Yeah, while I think some people bring up good points, they should probably be made in their own thread in the Roleplaying section.

As far as the guide goes:

I think it's pretty well written as far as last I read it, though I -still- think as far as pregnancy realism is concerned (and that seems to be what the guide addresses), there should be a section on the difficulties of carrying a child to term in a low tech environment where women are equal. I.E. things to think about when you're pregnant, like not sparring, not poisoning yourself and generally making sure you are well supplied with food and water.

As for me personally, if someone wants to roleplay pregnancy and get a virtual wetnurse or whatever, it's fine by me. It doesn't really impact me, and if I am a leader in a clan where my female employees are showing up pregnant and not able to do the job they were hired for, then they'd be out on their ass for not being useful (if they had nothing else but their use to keep them tied to me.)

But if people want to play the pregnant woman, realistically or not, it's no different from the hundred other situations people can handle in the game, realistically or not. So whatever floats people's boats. :) That said, don't ever feel bad about threatening to kill and/or eat people's babies.

Yseulte

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Re: Discussion of Pregnancy Article
« Reply #54 on: June 18, 2009, 09:54:54 PM »
I have to agree with Lizzie here in the whole pregnancy thing. It is a lot of work to pull it off realistically.

Sadly I see a real common habit of players who are instantly pregnant and know that day ICly after just having sex or I see pregnancy that is too quick, no side effects, practically a cake walk or even more often I see vNPC babies played wrong. Sorry, but a two month old does not laugh at jokes, wave cheerfully, or able to grasp and eat meat on their own. So PLEASE can someone add a emboldened section of realistic stages that vNPC babies go through, what babies can and cannot do in both physical, mental and emotional means.

I would like to see pregnancy require consent. This is a game, and I will make it real clear that this desire has nothing to do with my off-game views on the matter. My only concern is that if I was to play a male PC, my entire enjoyment of the game could potentially be altered for better or (likely) worse because this other player decides that he/she would like their character knocked up. Yes, I could just avoid the offspring, but if its not IC for my character, then I am stuck in a position I don't want to necessarily be in as a player.
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tortall

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Re: Discussion of Pregnancy Article
« Reply #55 on: June 18, 2009, 11:34:04 PM »
http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php/topic,35641.0.html

Go there for any other discussion other than ON THE ARTICLE ITSELF. Thank you.
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Yseulte

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Re: Discussion of Pregnancy Article
« Reply #56 on: June 18, 2009, 11:48:29 PM »
http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php/topic,35641.0.html

Go there for any other discussion other than ON THE ARTICLE ITSELF. Thank you.

It is on the article, if you read anything of it. I want to see a chapter in the pregnancy article on REALISM in the playing of vNPC babies so that I as a player do not have to suffer someone's ignorance on the abilities and inabilities of a newborn/baby/toddler.

And yes. Consent has every bit of a place in the pregnancy article. Torture, rape, sex effects my ability to play my role. If I don't want to suffer being a parent in game, it should NOT be pushed on me just like those others can not be. It is perfectly IC for my character to want to have sex, to want to have a family, but I as a player, do not want it. To just decide for me that you want my character to be a parent, will ruin my enjoyment. I have seen infertile males who admit to being infertile both IC and OOC and yet the female PC's player will have ignored this so they can have their vNPC child which goes against the male PC player's wish.

It is not a derail as this is what I want seen to be a part of the article as this is a discussion area for said article.
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Dalmeth

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Re: Discussion of Pregnancy Article
« Reply #57 on: June 19, 2009, 12:40:57 AM »
My only concern is that if I was to play a male PC, my entire enjoyment of the game could potentially be altered for better or (likely) worse because this other player decides that he/she would like their character knocked up. Yes, I could just avoid the offspring, but if its not IC for my character, then I am stuck in a position I don't want to necessarily be in as a player.

Bolded disagreement part. If you don't want to "accidentally" have kids, then don't kank IG. Simple as that. Or if your PC is freaked out by kids, make SURE the woman is taking mul mix, and takes it BEFORE EVERY time.


I have more arguments against what has been said in that thread, but I'll leave it at that.

This is something that should be considered for, if not addressed in this pregnancy article.

In real life, pregnancy is a consequence.  It's a chance.  This game we play is not reality, and there are no coded mechanisms for pregnancy.   In this game, pregnancy is always a choice.  That is, a choice you can inflict on other players.

Zalanthas is not so different from earth that you can have knock up a woman with no strings attached.  There's usually baggage, and that baggage can be depressing, irritating, or even quite fun.  It depends.  So when wanting to engage in this kind of RP, as in the case of the sexually explicit and torture, it is courteous to ask for the other PC's consent.  It's just not staff enforced.

Simply put, parentage is not a coded feature of this game, so I shouldn't have to put up with it if I don't want to.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2009, 12:50:51 AM by Dalmeth »
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Fathi

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Re: Discussion of Pregnancy Article
« Reply #58 on: June 19, 2009, 01:57:33 AM »
I want to see a chapter in the pregnancy article on REALISM in the playing of vNPC babies so that I as a player do not have to suffer someone's ignorance on the abilities and inabilities of a newborn/baby/toddler.

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Comrade Canadia

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Re: Discussion of Pregnancy Article
« Reply #59 on: June 19, 2009, 01:26:03 PM »
Yseulte, you wouldn't be pissing everyone off if your tone was a little more constructive. What I'm reading is "BABIES ARE BAD EVERYONE IS A CRAP ROLEPLAYER BUT ME"  kind of language. Are you honestly curious as to why people are getting upset?

You could have easily phrased something like "There should be a section on whether or not to choose to get pregnant, considering the effects on other players, and recognizing potential for infertility in your partner." Frankly, I agree. It's not a bad thing to consider.

This thread is everything wrong with the GDB. Although it appears the majority of players who've posted are interested in discussing and improving the article, we get two or three people flooding the thread with these poisonous rants that derail everything into personal attacks, rather than arguments about what should go in the article. We're a community and we should be cooperating, not pissing all over one another.

That said, I think a section on choosing to become pregnant, and what that means to yourself and any RP partner is something absolutely worth considering.
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Yseulte

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Re: Discussion of Pregnancy Article
« Reply #60 on: June 19, 2009, 05:33:53 PM »
Yseulte, you wouldn't be pissing everyone off if your tone was a little more constructive. What I'm reading is "BABIES ARE BAD EVERYONE IS A CRAP ROLEPLAYER BUT ME"  kind of language. Are you honestly curious as to why people are getting upset?

I did not realize anyone was getting upset. Dalmeth sure doesn't appear upset, nor Fathi. And if you follow the derail discussion, not everyone is against the consent idea and believe me, there are many, many players who have had moments of being disgusted by how some players have handled playing out their vNPC babies which would be why I requested a very specific article attachment for that realism.

This is not a rant, it is what I see lacking in the article, and as this is a discussion on what we as players would like to see, I pointed out my desire. The problem with text is people tend to read into it what they want in terms of tone. Though in terms of tone, I was quite at ease in my posts and had no reason to be upset. In Tortall's derail she implied that my post had nothing to do with this article discussion so I kindly pointed out her mistake with valid points. People can and do speak calmly even when they have opposing ideas.
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aruna

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Re: Discussion of Pregnancy Article
« Reply #61 on: June 19, 2009, 07:52:43 PM »
Capitalizing and bolding text to make a point that could be just as easily made without isn't generally considered calm, I think.

Edit: I dig the article, and I think people should be able to roleplay their pregnancies and their children the way they would like to, as long as it's reasonably within the bounds of realism.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2009, 07:55:51 PM by aruna »

Yseulte

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Re: Discussion of Pregnancy Article
« Reply #62 on: June 19, 2009, 07:59:00 PM »
Capitalizing and bolding text to make a point that could be just as easily made without isn't generally considered calm, I think.

Sure it is. It is meant to be emphasized, to encourage that each emboldened word be the drawing point. Would you say using '-this-' shows a lack of calm? No. It does exactly the same thing as emboldening a word. I'm sure if I was not calm or wanted to come off as being angry, well I might just enlarge the font to extreme measures and add a bunch of !!! or something such as that.
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Jia

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Re: Discussion of Pregnancy Article
« Reply #63 on: June 19, 2009, 08:05:38 PM »
Taven -  Nice article, appreciate the work you've put in (though I doubt I'll ever play a pregnant woman)

Lizzie -  Whoa, bitter much?

SarahJC -  Commendable RP, I'd like to see a lot more of this

Yseulte -  Totally agree that this should be consented, there are circumstances in RL which would make this not cool, and lead to storing, and such

Also, emboldened text means you're mad?  People get mad at computer screens?  Heheheh.
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Taven

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Re: Discussion of Pregnancy Article
« Reply #64 on: June 19, 2009, 08:05:58 PM »
http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php/topic,35641.0.html

Go there for any other discussion other than ON THE ARTICLE ITSELF. Thank you.

Thank you.

It is on the article, if you read anything of it. I want to see a chapter in the pregnancy article on REALISM in the playing of vNPC babies so that I as a player do not have to suffer someone's ignorance on the abilities and inabilities of a newborn/baby/toddler.

Thanks for the imput, but I think I already adressed that, at least.

I'm thinking that a sperate article on child care and raising children might actually be better, as it is a different, if related topic. Also, the article would get to be even longer then it is now, which is long enough, I think.

I think I may bite the bullet and start a thread on child-care in the roleplaying section. I'm terrified it's going to suffer the same fate as this thread, but it's a useful discussion. Maybe a good guide can come out of it.

-- As for the symptoms thing, I think you imply that these aren't a hard and fast list, but it may be better to outright state it. The guide's tone isn't authoritative, but I could see somebody misinterpreting it as such.

I'll add it to the "to change list," and if you do start up that other topic, feel free to post a link here, it sounds like a good idea.


I want to see a chapter in the pregnancy article on REALISM in the playing of vNPC babies so that I as a player do not have to suffer someone's ignorance on the abilities and inabilities of a newborn/baby/toddler.

I wrote one of these once. I'll post it for ya.

I'd like to see this, too. Links are still loved, for easy finding.

Capitalizing and bolding text to make a point that could be just as easily made without isn't generally considered calm, I think.

Sure it is. It is meant to be emphasized, to encourage that each emboldened word be the drawing point. Would you say using '-this-' shows a lack of calm? No. It does exactly the same thing as emboldening a word. I'm sure if I was not calm or wanted to come off as being angry, well I might just enlarge the font to extreme measures and add a bunch of !!! or something such as that.

On topic, please.

I understand you're just trying to reply to what's been said, but this will continue  forever if someone doesn't take the high road and stop.

Edit: The post box is being weird, and I can't see what I'm typing easily, so I went back to make some edits for spelling.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2009, 09:59:18 PM by Taven »
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AmandaGreathouse

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Re: Discussion of Pregnancy Article
« Reply #65 on: June 19, 2009, 08:45:29 PM »
Taven -  Nice article, appreciate the work you've put in (though I doubt I'll ever play a pregnant woman)

Lizzie -  Whoa, bitter much?

SarahJC -  Commendable RP, I'd like to see a lot more of this

Yseulte -  Totally agree that this should be consented, there are circumstances in RL which would make this not cool, and lead to storing, and such

Also, emboldened text means you're mad?  People get mad at computer screens?  Heheheh.

This exactly.

I always ask the other person for consent to roll and see if she's pregnant. First, their PC may very well be sterile, and second, with my first PC I know I messed up a lot of another PC's fun making mine pregnant without consent. I'm still sorry for having done that. I personally feel it shouldn't be necessary to do it, but I would like the same consideration shown to me if I ever choose to make a male PC.
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sarahjc

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Re: Discussion of Pregnancy Article
« Reply #66 on: June 20, 2009, 04:50:02 AM »
You know, I've never thought of asking for consent from the other player. I've always just seen it as the risk they take when getting down. To me, if they didn't want to make babies, then they should probably keep the baby maker tucked away. 

But now that I think about it, it's probably a curtesy that should be considered if only for the reason that the other PC could be sterile.
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Pale Horse

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Re: Discussion of Pregnancy Article
« Reply #67 on: June 20, 2009, 05:39:03 AM »
You know, I've never thought of asking for consent from the other player. I've always just seen it as the risk they take when getting down. To me, if they didn't want to make babies, then they should probably keep the baby maker tucked away. 

But now that I think about it, it's probably a curtesy that should be considered if only for the reason that the other PC could be sterile.

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Taven

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Re: Discussion of Pregnancy Article
« Reply #68 on: June 20, 2009, 06:17:34 PM »

This is, browsing over the thread, things that should be done, or are suggested.

*Add mention of tdesc to article
*Magick and birth
*Cultural Birth Factors
*Pictures of pregnancy in various stages
*Playability of vNPC baby
*Baby farmers
*OOC pregnancy consent
*Edit of half-elf ages and birth time approximation
*Miscarrage info
*Adding that this is guideline, and may not get all "symptoms"
*More restrictions/how pregnancy would effect life details/ideas

I think that making a section for the actual birth would be good, if only an outline. I think that there's enough there that needs to be covered for a seperate article, and I think that childcare/rasing a baby article would be good, too. I'll try to go in and add some of this, and let you know when that's done.

You're all welcome to tackle the other articles, or get a start on them.
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shadeoux

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Re: Discussion of Pregnancy Article
« Reply #69 on: July 27, 2009, 11:15:31 PM »
As far as women in the article, I see the valid points from all sides, however, there is still this fact for men,
what about sympathy weight, I know when my ex had our first son -I- put on fourty pounds of sympathy weight the doctors called it.
fourty pounds, and I promptly lost it once he was born
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Lizzie

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Re: Discussion of Pregnancy Article
« Reply #70 on: July 28, 2009, 06:41:52 AM »
Within this pregnancy article (I checked the derail thread, but it's turned into magickers and whether or not they're slaves so this doesn't go there)...

I'd like to see a reminder of the overall, general sexual ambivalence in Zalanthas. By and large, mutually exclusive male-female life-bonding mate situations are not as common as more casual mating. That goes for pregnant women as well. I would enjoy seeing a paragraph in this doc, reminding people that it is -not- normal, for a woman learning she is pregnant, to use her pregnancy in attempt to "keep her mate." Her mate might or might not have any interest in providing for the baby, and *either* decision is normal in the world of Zalanthas. No one would think of him as a brute, or uncaring, or cold-hearted, for saying "pregnant? That's nice. I gotta go, my girlfriend in the other city is waiting for me. Smoochy smoochy, see you in a couple of months."

It is equally common for a man to -want- to maintain the relationship and help rear the baby. But I've seen several modern soap opera scenes crop up in the game, and it makes me really just want to change the channel.
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Taven

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Re: Discussion of Pregnancy Article
« Reply #71 on: July 30, 2009, 05:54:07 PM »
I haven't squeezed that in yet, Lizzi, but I like the suggestion. It's sad that it's needed, but I think that it's good to have there.

Meanwhile, does anyone have any suggestions for the "Ancient Practices" subsection?
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Flawed

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Re: Discussion of Pregnancy Article
« Reply #72 on: May 31, 2010, 02:54:19 PM »
Thread Resurrection!

So from the helpfile. 40 weeks for a full pregnancy with 7 days a week. That is 280 days for a full pregnancy.

280 Zalanathas days = 2.5 weeks irl.

But according to some thing somewhere, it should be 5 weeks irl. Someone tell me how it translates into 2 IC months please? That is like over 460 days in pregnancy. Sure, Zalanthas days are shorter than earth days...

...

Zalanthas women are giving birth to unnaturally large aliens?
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AmandaGreathouse

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Re: Discussion of Pregnancy Article
« Reply #73 on: May 31, 2010, 03:10:37 PM »
No, this is how it breaks down. The earth year is about equal to the zalanthan year. Not the same of days and months. So you take 3/4 of the earth year to get nine months. 3/4 of the zalanthan year is 2.25 months (roughly). It actually breaks down so that it's, I can't recall, either 1.9 or 2.12 zalanthan days of pregnancy that equal an earth day. Let's say you are the equivalent of 1 earth month pregnant. 30 days.

Earth pregnancy = 280 days

Zalanthan pregnancy = 532 days.

280 into 532 = 1.9

Multiply 1.9 X 30 = 57.

So you'd likely get your first clues 57 days after conception, etc etc etc.

I've spent way too much time working on all this already.
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Flawed

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Re: Discussion of Pregnancy Article
« Reply #74 on: May 31, 2010, 04:04:32 PM »
There are only 12 hours in a Zalanthas day?

I'm still trying to catch up on how fast the body metabolism has to be to keep to a routine of 12 hours in a day.

Since Zalanthas men/women recover fast, (aka, injury miracles) you'd think the pregnancy cycle would be similarly paced. How come men always have things easier?
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