Author Topic: Discussion of Pregnancy Article  (Read 14132 times)

Kronibas

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Re: Discussion of Pregnancy Article
« Reply #25 on: April 20, 2009, 12:33:14 PM »
If the Neo-Victorian fiction of Sarah Waters is to be believed, then during the Victorian era some people would act as "baby farmers" who trained and raised their "adoptees" from a young age to be laborers/beggers/thieves.

In Zalanthas, Waters' scenario might be feasible, but it's more likely that if a baby weren't instantly killed (or already dead) upon being found in a vacant apartment, then they would be looked after (to insure no physical/mental defects) until they reach the ages of between 5-10, at which time they might be sold into slavery or used as slaves/laborers by the finders themselves.

Having said that, GMHs would probably have areas to accomodate those and the infants/children of those who have served them for years upon years, even if there is no coded reference to such.  I'd definitely ask my clan imm.
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WarriorPoet

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Re: Discussion of Pregnancy Article
« Reply #26 on: April 20, 2009, 12:33:55 PM »
As far as staff killing pregnant mothers - this would not be something we would do off the cuff as it would fall into the realm of 'harming' a player.  In the past we have done plots that have affected peoples virtual families and the results were not good. It caused a great deal of angst for the player, and resulted in staff being accused of hating the player, instead of trying to involve them in a storyline. We won't be doing things like that again.

That's why I say NO to virtual relationships that don't remain strictly on the fringes. It's a tough, rough, and very cruel world. IMO, if you can't take the consequences of building a virtual family and throwing litters and bringing them to the fore of your roleplaying, then you shouldn't be allowed to do so. The game Threshold comes to mind, as Aristotle long ago said that player pregnancies are not allowed in the game since there is no way to factor in all of the potential problems that go along with pregnancy in a low-tech setting. I suppose players having fits about their virtual children goes hand in hand.

I'm ALL for having virtual friends and family that add spice to your PLAYER2PLAYER interactions, but once those virtual characters, or pregnancies to stay on-topic, start making appearances and affecting the "real" world, like a baby or babies, they should be completely fair game for anyone to cook/eat/football-punt over the shieldwall.

I don't see that killing a prego through complications is any more 'harmful' to the player than, say, a mul tearing your head off or a beast ripping your belly open or a templar siezing and torturing you to death because they were bored.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2009, 12:35:27 PM by WarriorPoet »
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Lizzie

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Re: Discussion of Pregnancy Article
« Reply #27 on: April 20, 2009, 02:27:25 PM »
WP's post brings up another sub-topic: how the other PCs can interact with someone's virtual baby.

Is it acceptable, since this is a VNPC baby, for a VNPC baby-snatcher to show up and steal the baby and run off, and sell it to a VNPC Borsail noble, to become a member of the VNPC slave crew? If not, why not? If so, I'd like to see more of that. Or at least..some of that. I've never seen it.  "I'll give you a hundred sids for your kid" should be a commonly heard sentence whenever a low-ranking or non-ranking city-bred commoner brings their newborn/infant around. I'd even go so far to suggest that pregnant women who are low-ranking or non-ranking should expect to see random traders and slavers coming up to them while they're still pregnant, offering them deals on the results of a healthy delivery. And - this should be _acceptable_ roleplay.
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staggerlee

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Re: Discussion of Pregnancy Article
« Reply #28 on: April 20, 2009, 02:43:19 PM »
WP's post brings up another sub-topic: how the other PCs can interact with someone's virtual baby.

Is it acceptable, since this is a VNPC baby, for a VNPC baby-snatcher to show up and steal the baby and run off, and sell it to a VNPC Borsail noble, to become a member of the VNPC slave crew? If not, why not? If so, I'd like to see more of that. Or at least..some of that. I've never seen it.  "I'll give you a hundred sids for your kid" should be a commonly heard sentence whenever a low-ranking or non-ranking city-bred commoner brings their newborn/infant around. I'd even go so far to suggest that pregnant women who are low-ranking or non-ranking should expect to see random traders and slavers coming up to them while they're still pregnant, offering them deals on the results of a healthy delivery. And - this should be _acceptable_ roleplay.


It's as acceptable as any other rped activity in the mud.  Don't power-emote, allow for consent and cooperation the part of the other player, rp appropriately, and keep a log.  If you do all of that, I think it would be 100% acceptable.

I don't think you'd get much of a deal for your baby though, babies are cheap in teeming industrial* hellholes like Allanak. I'm sure you could get a nominal fee, but pcs tend not to be desperate enough to work side by side their virtual babies in whatever Allanak's version of a cannery is.


*I realize that 'Nak isn't industrialized, but it feels and behaves like an industrialized European city.
"But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked.

"Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."

"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.

"You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here."

Lizzie

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Re: Discussion of Pregnancy Article
« Reply #29 on: April 20, 2009, 03:43:38 PM »
Actually I had the movie Oliver in mind when I was thinking about this stuff. Oliver, and the rinth. Criminal organizations snagging babies, raising them as tools, teaching them the "trade" so they can grow up to be functioning and productive and profitable members of the criminal family.

As for power-emoting, I consider it just as "power emoting" for a player to roleplay that the baby who is sitting securely on her lap, unable to be stolen, is behaving like a perfect newborn angel in the midst of barroom brawls, thieves and ruffians of all sorts milling around, ale being spilled, puke being splattered by adults all over the floor...and yet tiny 3-day-old Newborn Nelly is a sweet, quiet, unmessy, perfect, non-vomiting, non-liquid-shitting on mommy's lap at the bar?

THAT to me is power emoting. It's like, the player of mommy dearest is dictating a story to me, and not roleplaying it. She's showing me a photograph of her baby at its best, and not presenting me with a virtual baby I can believe is actually there.
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staggerlee

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Re: Discussion of Pregnancy Article
« Reply #30 on: April 20, 2009, 03:50:03 PM »
Disagreeing with another player's portrayal of the world and their place in it isn't the same as power-emoting at all. The generally accepted definition of power-emoting is forcing an action on someone else. "emote punches you in the face."  For the benefit of comparison, "emote performs a series of deft punches, with flawless accuracy and speed" is fine, though perhaps inaccurate.

The problem with power-emoting is not that it's an inaccurate depiction of the world, so much as that it's anti-social. "emote punches you in the face" is going to be responded to with "emote deftly avoids the punch" and lead to all kinds of jarring inconsistencies in the narrative. "emote throws a punch at %man face" allows the recipient to cooperate and respond either with "pemote head snaps back with the force of %attacker punch" or "emote deftly avoids avoids the punch."

If you have a complaint about someone's depiction of the world, rp, or emoting I'd suggest following the game's rules and using the player complaint tool to address it. 

You can't justify a power-emoted baby theft just because you thought that some pc's baby should be crying more.
"But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked.

"Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."

"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.

"You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here."

WarriorPoet

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Re: Discussion of Pregnancy Article
« Reply #31 on: April 20, 2009, 05:29:02 PM »
emote coughs his plague-cough all over %mommy baby.

ooc Your baby is now very sick. RP appropriately.
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Mudder

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Re: Discussion of Pregnancy Article
« Reply #32 on: April 20, 2009, 06:37:08 PM »
emote coughs his plague-cough all over %mommy baby.

ooc Your baby is now very sick. RP appropriately.

*Chuckle*

Very cool link!
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Taven

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Re: Discussion of Pregnancy Article
« Reply #33 on: April 20, 2009, 07:07:38 PM »
One thing that I found useful was looking at pictures of pregnant woman in different stages. I went through all kinds of pictures and marked what size I would be and when. Sadly, this was before tdesc. Wish I still had the link to that one website...

A quick google search on pregnancies and trimesters should turn it up. I choose not to include any pictures in my article, since they wouldn't be mine to put there.

Something I haven't seen discussed at all:

Playability of the fact that there is now a VNPC baby in the world. Mom's a Kurac recruit (not life-sworn)..and gets killed by a gith. Dad is a generic nomad rangerly type, unclanned, with no coded encampment, and can't afford a full-time wet-nurse.

So who's raising this kid now? Where? By what means?

I have problems with the idea of PC pregnancy because PCs are very likely to not live long enough for their kids to not depend on them. I've seen lots of PCs get pregnant and have kids. I know of just a couple of those PCs who had the means, and the coded environment, in which to raise those kids, in the unfortunate event of that PC's death. The rest...the majority - well those kids just end up - unresolved. They fade to black, cease to exist, and everyone just basicallly forgets they were ever born. That's kinda stupid, to me.

In reguards to the Article, I think that this topic would have to be in another one. Infact, an Article about raising children would be probably very useful.

As to the topic itself, I agree with what you're saying on the kids having no recourse if the parents (parent?) dies, and even when they're alive how often they get ignored. I can see why this happens for playability reasons, at least them getting ignored. I think that players like the idea of having kids, but not spending endless time and effort on them, as virtual beings. I've seen PCs hire people to care for their kids, wetnurses or nanny's. While that may seem silly, and not cost-effective, I'd imagine that if you could find someone you trusted not to clean out your apartment, there'd be some people willing to work for not alot of pay, and just food and water. How qualified they are, of course, is debatable, but very few PCs are going to want to be stay at home moms.

For if the parent(s) die, I would recommend a PC making arrangements beforehand, "just in case." There's virtual family, employers (which Kroibas touches on) and friends.

WP's post brings up another sub-topic: how the other PCs can interact with someone's virtual baby.

Is it acceptable, since this is a VNPC baby, for a VNPC baby-snatcher to show up and steal the baby and run off, and sell it to a VNPC Borsail noble, to become a member of the VNPC slave crew? If not, why not? If so, I'd like to see more of that. Or at least..some of that. I've never seen it.  "I'll give you a hundred sids for your kid" should be a commonly heard sentence whenever a low-ranking or non-ranking city-bred commoner brings their newborn/infant around. I'd even go so far to suggest that pregnant women who are low-ranking or non-ranking should expect to see random traders and slavers coming up to them while they're still pregnant, offering them deals on the results of a healthy delivery. And - this should be _acceptable_ roleplay.

I have strong objections to killing vNPC babies, without player permisson. You can't do something like cut a PC's arm off, or do something that would otherwise drasticly affect them, without permisson. A player spent ALL that time role-playing out the pregnancy, and possibly the birth, and I think that the killing of a vNPC should be seriously considered. You could argue that you don't have to ask permission to kill a PC, and the player's put effort into them, but I think this is different. It's the vNPC world, and how do you know that a vNPC neighbor isn't there? Or that they're supposed to check on the baby and find it missing? I'm not sure I can rationalize all my feelings on this, but I really, really hate the idea of killing a PC's virtual baby, without their consent.

I would argue that because this is so much vNPC based, that staff support would also be needed, to play those vNPCs as there are any. I don't have objections to baby-stealing without approval, but I've heard of it happening where the baby isn't actually THERE, it's somewhere else, and the kidnappers claim to have stolen it anyways. Please, people, use the arrange command to show where your baby is, and change it if you move them! I'd also say that baby theft should have staff animation elements to it.

If you have a complaint about someone's depiction of the world, rp, or emoting I'd suggest following the game's rules and using the player complaint tool to address it.  

This, I agree with. While I don't think having the perfect child is good RP, I don't think power-emoted responses are justified.
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Synthesis

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Re: Discussion of Pregnancy Article
« Reply #34 on: April 21, 2009, 02:59:44 PM »
Oh man, this reminds me of all the shenanigans people were always pulling trying to fuck with Ysania's baby.

I think at one point, a pickpocket actually stole her baby-object from her inventory, lol.
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tortall

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Re: Discussion of Pregnancy Article
« Reply #35 on: April 21, 2009, 05:00:36 PM »
Oh man, this reminds me of all the shenanigans people were always pulling trying to fuck with Ysania's baby.

I think at one point, a pickpocket actually stole her baby-object from her inventory, lol.

HAHA, baby objects. <3

Code: [Select]
eat baby

>
You eat part of a blue-eyed baby.

>
in

>
You are carrying:
a half-eaten blue-eyed baby

>
wish all Um, I ate my baby, can I get a new one?
You send a message to the staff: Um, I ate my baby, can I get a new one?

>
Someone snickers, pointing at you a jeering.
The man asks you:
     "'Bout damn time, lol.  She didn't bang you up too bad, did she?"
The man says, ooc:
     "OG did i jsut do that?"

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Fathi

  • Posts: 4552
Re: Discussion of Pregnancy Article
« Reply #36 on: April 22, 2009, 12:17:02 AM »
Unfortunately, as long as children of PCs are a 100% virtual entity, it's going to be pretty difficult to enforce people's RP with them.

On one hand, you have the potential for a mother to RP her baby or babies being utterly perfect and born perfect and well-behaved... on the other hand, you have staff handing out baby objects with scripts attached that make them cry and poop and puke at regular intervals, with canned emotes like mounts. This is more unappealing, to me.

I'd rather deal with a few mothers whose RP seems a tad unrealistic than have a baby object that's essentially a text-based Tamagotchi.



Edit: That being said, staff animation of vnpc children is not unheard of and if you see someone whose baby needs a good kick in the ass so that it'll actually cry once in a while, I bet staff could arrange it.
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Taven

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Re: Discussion of Pregnancy Article
« Reply #37 on: May 10, 2009, 12:43:48 PM »
Quote from: Article
Zalanthas is NOT the modern day. There is little to no knowledge of sanitation or germs.

This is slightly misleading, I think.

Edited.

I'm sure a lot of this is "old hat" for some of you armers, but I lively discussion of cross-cultural childbirth rites might be helpful for others.

I don't really cover the actual giving birth, just the pregnancy, but I think that adding a mention of this into the medic/midwife section is defidently worthwhile. I'll add it to my edit to-do list. :P

Still on the "to-do list."


I DID put up a translation of pregnancy times for different races, but did NOT translate that into Trimesters. Should I? Also, I think my math is correct, but you are all welcome to look over it.
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Lizzie

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Re: Discussion of Pregnancy Article
« Reply #38 on: May 10, 2009, 01:03:19 PM »
I don't know that there's any documentation that claims any of the races experience trimesters at all.

It's a different planet, different biology, different laws of physics, different chemistry, different lifestyles, different physiology, and those "races" everyone talks about, aren't races. They're different species. It's like trying to claim that a dingo has the same type of gestation experience as a pomeranian, just because they're both types of dogs.

If y'all want to -create- a physiology of pregnancy among the different humanoid species of Zalanthas, that's awesome. If y'all want to use humans who live on the planet earth as a general guideline, it's probably not a bad idea. But trying to convert human terran gestation to zalanthan elven gestation just seems kinda dumb.

Elves live longer than humans in Zalanthas. However, they reach adulthood (comparatively) around the same age. So make elves take...two months and two weeks to be pregnant. Why? Why not? It's as good as any scientific study of non-existent entities. It's arbitrary, but it's also playable. For people who actually like playing pregnant people. Hey I know..make it take one RL week for ALL humanoid gestation in Armageddon. So people only have to listen to f-me's complain about their swollen (but round and perky and beautiful and perfect) nipples for a week. And make recovery from childbirth take two REAL years. Now we're talking.
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Taven

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Re: Discussion of Pregnancy Article
« Reply #39 on: May 10, 2009, 01:11:54 PM »
If y'all want to -create- a physiology of pregnancy among the different humanoid species of Zalanthas, that's awesome. If y'all want to use humans who live on the planet earth as a general guideline, it's probably not a bad idea. But trying to convert human terran gestation to zalanthan elven gestation just seems kinda dumb.

I disagree. I think that it's reasonable to make a guideline for pregnancy lengths, using proportions. I did state that we don't know if the proportions are the same, but at the same time I think it is more useful to have that chart then what it says in the main pregnancy article in the helpfiles, "gestation for non-humans maybe longer." Basically, I think this gives a good guideline.

Elves live longer than humans in Zalanthas. However, they reach adulthood (comparatively) around the same age. So make elves take...two months and two weeks to be pregnant. Why? Why not? It's as good as any scientific study of non-existent entities. It's arbitrary, but it's also playable

Actually, if you compare the minimum starting ages, there IS a difference. A human who is thirteen shares the maturity of an elf who is eighteen, or so it is reasonable to gather from the starting races. That's a five-year difference, and so it's not "around the same age."

For people who actually like playing pregnant people. Hey I know..make it take one RL week for ALL humanoid gestation in Armageddon. So people only have to listen to f-me's complain about their swollen (but round and perky and beautiful and perfect) nipples for a week. And make recovery from childbirth take two REAL years. Now we're talking.

Your other comments had merit. This is just a blatant flame, with no real purpose, or respect to the amount of work put in. Please consider the purpose of your posts before posting.

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Lizzie

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Re: Discussion of Pregnancy Article
« Reply #40 on: May 10, 2009, 03:00:07 PM »
Hm, the only reference to ages I could find using the armageddon.org's built in google search, was this:
http://www.armageddon.org/help/show.php/age

It shows that elves have a lifespan 20 -years- longer than a human. So - a 5-year difference in maturity rate ain't much. Both mature as middle-teenagers.

A halfling, however, is -specified- to mature differently, with a completely different physiology. A halfling would be considered a "child" until he hits somewhere around 30 years old, and then he will have reached the average age of maturity for his race.


My point of posting, is that I think there's way too much thought put into zalanthan pregnancy than is necessary..and if you're gonna get all detailed about it, then you might as well go as far as you can. Otherwise, it's easier to just let people roleplay..or -not- roleplay..as they see fit. There's already a pregnancy document.

Most players I've seen who've played pregnant women or women with newborns, don't stick to the -existing- document. So why go through all the trouble of adding more information, when the existing information is mostly ignored?
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Taven

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Re: Discussion of Pregnancy Article
« Reply #41 on: May 10, 2009, 04:48:06 PM »
My point of posting, is that I think there's way too much thought put into zalanthan pregnancy than is necessary..and if you're gonna get all detailed about it, then you might as well go as far as you can. Otherwise, it's easier to just let people roleplay..or -not- roleplay..as they see fit. There's already a pregnancy document.

Most players I've seen who've played pregnant women or women with newborns, don't stick to the -existing- document. So why go through all the trouble of adding more information, when the existing information is mostly ignored?

They're still welcome to role-play it as they see fit. My Article does not claim to be the definitive source, nor does it claim to be something that Staff state as fact. The existing document, if you've looked at it, is very hard to read. The formatting is bad,it's hard to read, and there's also a large lack of information. It leaves alot of searching and work to the player, and it would be nice to be able to just scan over something and go "Ah, that's how it works." Which is exactly where my Article is supposed to help. Also, you're saying that many players don't stick to the existing document-- I'm hoping that this Article helps to re-enforce following what's avaliable more closely.

Hm, the only reference to ages I could find using the armageddon.org's built in google search, was this:
http://www.armageddon.org/help/show.php/age

It shows that elves have a lifespan 20 -years- longer than a human. So - a 5-year difference in maturity rate ain't much. Both mature as middle-teenagers.

A halfling, however, is -specified- to mature differently, with a completely different physiology. A halfling would be considered a "child" until he hits somewhere around 30 years old, and then he will have reached the average age of maturity for his race.

...I don't get how this is helping your point. If anything, that just further supports the idea that pregnancy lengths would be different.

Basically, the Article is supposed to provided a basis for those who DO want to role-play it out, so it's THERE for them. It's comparable to, oh, looking over a document in hand-to-hand combat to be able to role-play better your moves; the same with sword play, etc. The thing is, that those things are based on code, too. Pregnancy is entirely role-played, and I think it's important to have an idea how to role-play it, which is essentially how to do it at ALL, since there's no code around it.

If the document isn't useful to you, that's fine. It doesn't have to be. However, I still think it has merit.
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Whiran Luck

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Re: Discussion of Pregnancy Article
« Reply #42 on: June 18, 2009, 02:43:42 AM »
I skimmed it and may have missed it, but some information on miscarrying might be good. I'd imagine there would be a large number of situations that could cause a pregnant woman -not- to carry to term, including those in militant/combatant roles (getting your body beat on repeatedly by hard implements and the trauma of physical combat probably wouldn't be good), not getting enough to eat/drink, being poisoned, eating bad food, so forth and so on.

Pale Horse

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Re: Discussion of Pregnancy Article
« Reply #43 on: June 18, 2009, 05:44:48 AM »
I skimmed it and may have missed it, but some information on miscarrying might be good. I'd imagine there would be a large number of situations that could cause a pregnant woman -not- to carry to term, including those in militant/combatant roles (getting your body beat on repeatedly by hard implements and the trauma of physical combat probably wouldn't be good), not getting enough to eat/drink, being poisoned, eating bad food, so forth and so on.

Truth.

Rebuttal:
Zalanthan humans, imo, seem to be of a hardier breed than the average terran human.  I can't say yea or nea for elves, dwarves, etc, as there's no conterpart IRL.  Zalanthans, if indeed, are more robust and sturdier than we, I could see suffering less from miscarriages.  After all, with the death rate being so obscenely high IG, there's gotta be some good reason that there's always more people around.  Higher successful birth rates could account for this.

Then again, I've seen a couple miscarriages played out, IG.  One of which killed the PC (I still applaude said person's willingness to take it that far.  Even if they were just simply tired of their character, going out in such a way helped drive home some hard points about "life" and added a touch of realism that I admired).  As I said, the death rate on Zalanthas is obscene.  The average exposure to danger and extremes is above that which, I think, the majority of us face on a comparative daily basis, so miscarriage most likely comes about due to the same factors that affect us.  It just takes..higher amounts.  Or not.  This is a game, after all, and our RP is our own.
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Lizzie

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Re: Discussion of Pregnancy Article
« Reply #44 on: June 18, 2009, 09:12:37 AM »
No matter how hardy Zalanthans are..I'm guessing that being kicked/punched/slashed/stabbed/smacked repeatedly during sparring and actual combat, repeatedly, during the first few weeks of pregnancy (before you even realize you're pregnant), would *likely* result in a miscarriage, which would most likely be assumed just a really extra heavy and crampy period if you didn't know you were pregnant in the first place.

The first "phase" (trimester for earth, no idea for Zalanthas) of pregnancy, you only know for sure that you're pregnant because you took a pregnancy test. Pregnancy tests don't exist on Zalanthas. So you have to stick with what people on earth used to *guess* (and sometimes those guesses were just the result of normal/abnormal non-pregnancy hormone changes):

Swollen/sore breasts
Stomach bloating not caused by any food problem
Anemia/diarrhea
Sudden onset of acne when it didn't previously exist
Sudden clearing of pre-existing acne
Weird hair days (suddenly very oily, or suddenly very dry)
Lack of menstruation -more- than once in a row (since missing once is no sign of anything and any woman of childbearing years knows this)

Also..speaking of menstruation - I understand, agree with, and appreciate that the game doesn't make people have to go to the bathroom..pee and shit. But those are "activities" that only take a few minutes, IF someone were to roleplay them out. Menstruation takes a few days, non-stop, and causes all kinds of hormonal symptoms. Does anyone actually roleplay menstruation? If the player of a PC who gets pregnant, doesn't ever roleplay menstruation, then why even bother with a document on roleplaying pregnancy? I don't roleplay menstruation..or its hormonal effects (swelling, bloating, cramps, headaches, bleeding like a stuck pig, clots, having to change clothes often or throw blood-soaked rags away, not being able to ride, limping, overactive libido, underactive libido, zits, etc. etc. etc.). I also don't roleplay pregnancy. So at least it's consistent. Women who are fertile whose players plan for them to get pregnant, should also roleplay their fertility. Which means..menstruation and all the nasty crap that goes with it.
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sarahjc

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Re: Discussion of Pregnancy Article
« Reply #45 on: June 18, 2009, 12:07:11 PM »
I think the document is fine. I don't know if it is all that necessary, but it's a nice guide for those of us that have questions. That said, I donít think itís the end all be all to how people should RP that kind of thing out.

I have read the basic documentation and have worked out a few in game pregnancies just fine. Some of my PCís have had hemorrhoids, most have had uncontrollable bladders, all have had morning sickness and mood swings, bloated feet, hands and backpain, some have had stretch marks, some havenít.

My current PC is rocking a 50/50. Out of 4 pregnancies, she produced 2 children, one of which came out sickly, the other healthy and fine.  With the sickly child, the PC herself nearly died and took an IC month to recover. The other two were miscarried. Through all of them, she drank, smoked and in general lived her life as she always did, until she was too fat to do anything but sit around.

I think death is a real and dangerous consequence of pregnancy in uneducated cultures. I roll a dice to see how my PCís pregnancy will turn out, then I give another dice roll to see how her birth will work out.

There is also the question of what to do with the child after your PCís death.  On a former PC of mine, she was the rangy type of danger seeker that could bite it at any moment, so was her kidís father.  When they got preggers, they knew they werenít the type to raise children, but they were decently wealthy for commoners. They paid a merchant house a healthy sum to take their kid and raise it for them with a certain amount of creature comfort. They would also pay other PCís to watch the kid while they were out.

What is kinda cool is, while that PC is long gone and dead, my current PC occasionally runs into someone who speaks about my old PCís kid. So the Vnpc is now an actual part of the game, and not something that statically just disappeared.

To sum up, I think that itís personal preference how you RP pregnancy, as long as you stay within the time constraints, and I think itís responsible RP to deal with a child in a realistic way.  Children are life changing, and should be a part of your PCís every day thoughts and life, though it shouldnít ruin your enjoyment of the game.
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spawnloser

  • Posts: 7313
Re: Discussion of Pregnancy Article
« Reply #46 on: June 18, 2009, 02:04:37 PM »
Also..speaking of menstruation - I understand, agree with, and appreciate that the game doesn't make people have to go to the bathroom..pee and shit. But those are "activities" that only take a few minutes, IF someone were to roleplay them out. Menstruation takes a few days, non-stop, and causes all kinds of hormonal symptoms. Does anyone actually roleplay menstruation? If the player of a PC who gets pregnant, doesn't ever roleplay menstruation, then why even bother with a document on roleplaying pregnancy? I don't roleplay menstruation..or its hormonal effects (swelling, bloating, cramps, headaches, bleeding like a stuck pig, clots, having to change clothes often or throw blood-soaked rags away, not being able to ride, limping, overactive libido, underactive libido, zits, etc. etc. etc.). I also don't roleplay pregnancy. So at least it's consistent. Women who are fertile whose players plan for them to get pregnant, should also roleplay their fertility. Which means..menstruation and all the nasty crap that goes with it.
This.  FUCKING this.

Have any of you ever seen the Maury Show?  Yes, I know it's horrible day-time television, but I work nights and something even vaguely amusing in the background while I'm mudding is good.  Anyway, occasionally they have a show with the wild teen daughters out of control where those said immature little girls wants a baby.  You people that roleplay pregnancy and having the baby remind me of this because you, like those little girls, are only dealing with less than 10% of the experience.  You wanna do it, do it.  Don't do it half-ass.  Oh, sure, I've seen the occasional person bitching and moaning about blah blah blah, waddling around... that discomfort.  But that's only the tip of the iceberg.

THEN we get to the point where you have the kid.  Your character, in some cases, has no support structure to take care of the kid so you must have it on you at all times.  I know of a character that literally DID have the baby with the character at all times, including when getting into combat... and at that time, conveniently forgot that some of those stabs and the like may just hit and kill this fragile creature that's 1/6th the size of the parent.  What about those nights the kid is colicky and your character didn't get any sleep so is grouchy?  Have the baby with you?  Why doesn't it spit up all over you shoulder... probably for the same reason the bird that's spent the last two years of its life on your other shoulder has taken a crap in all that time, you're forgetting most of the unpleasant portions and only remembering the fun stuff.
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Lizzie

  • Posts: 7959
Re: Discussion of Pregnancy Article
« Reply #47 on: June 18, 2009, 02:19:52 PM »
Right - and yet, when *I* emote laughing at the bird taking a shit on the hunter's shoulder, *I* get in trouble for power-playing.

How about the hunter getting in trouble for powerplaying, for NOT taking his environment, including the fact that his silt-horror sleeves SHOULD be covered in bird shit by now, into consideration when HE roleplays his bird's existence?

And then there's the whole commoner who complains she never has sids, who doesn't work for a noble house that has actually arranged to take care of her kid..suddenly showing up in the bar without her kid and claiming she hired a wet-nurse for it.

Um..you just told everyone you can't afford to fix your torn and tattered skirt..but you can hire a wet-nurse? Hope you don't mind if I cry foul OOCly, and ICly accuse you of being a mindbender for convincing a wet-nurse to suckle your kid for free.
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flurry

  • Posts: 3360
Re: Discussion of Pregnancy Article
« Reply #48 on: June 18, 2009, 02:37:29 PM »
Of all the roleplay topics that come up on the GDB, this one seems to be unique in its ability to stir up a chorus of "shoulds".

My best advice is just do the research you need to do, and play it out the way you see fit, to the best of your ability. In fiction, you're rarely going to see absolute realism in this area, because there's a higher goal of telling a compelling story. There's a vast difference between being believable and being meticulously clinical.

If you think everyone else is doing it wrong, step up and do it right. Be the change.
"No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality; even larks and katydids are supposed, by some, to dream." - Shirley Jackson, The Haunting of Hill House

Comrade Canadia

  • Posts: 276
Re: Discussion of Pregnancy Article
« Reply #49 on: June 18, 2009, 02:50:47 PM »
This thread seems to have been hijacked into a soapbox for attacks on others' roleplay while espousing ridiculous, over-exaggerated solutions in order to prove a point. Not constructive.

I'll try to address OP's article here:

I think that your list of symptoms should be a little less definitive. I've known several pregnant women who show some, all, or some entirely different symptoms than the ones listed. Being a guy I'm hardly an expert, but I'm under the impression that the symptoms vary wildly from woman to woman with a few consistencies.

Mentioning infant mortality rate may be something to keep in mind. If you do, I think it'd be best to describe it as a potential character development tool for your PC, rather than your child being doomed.

In tribal cultures, it's very likely that children are cared for an raised by the community as much as the parent. Convenient way to ditch your virtual baby for a while. Although that would actually delve into the realm of child care, which I think is beyond the scope of the article?

Still, it's clearly written, makes sense, and I think it'll be useful to people who are interested in RPing pregnancy.  Good job!
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