Author Topic: 1000th time... Haggle for a Gem  (Read 7612 times)

Marauder Moe

  • Posts: 13005
Re: 1000th time... Haggle for a Gem
« Reply #25 on: March 20, 2009, 12:09:19 PM »
Players of gemmed ought to realize that talking about magick in public is crossing the line.  Heck, I remember times when doing such a thing was practically illegal.  Things may have changed ICly since then, but I'm sure not that much.  If your character is talking about magick in public you really do need to realize how unusual it is and how dangerous it is.  I would even say you have some imperative to emote negative vNPC reactions to it, since for other players to do it borders on power-emoting.

Players of mundanes ought to be willing to artificially (not the best word, but I can't think of a better one) maintain your fear and disdain for gemmed, even if you've survived multiple battles where fireballs got tossed around or seen dozens of sympathetic, friendly, fluffy gemmers who just want to be normal people.  Pretend that every time your character sees a friendly gemmer PC, on the way home from the tavern they run into a freak vNPC gemmer with a tentacle growing out of one eye spouting prophecies that Drov will swallow Suk-Krath and darkness will rule Zalanthas.

Players of templars ought to treat gemmed like slaves more often.  Firstly, you don't charge a slave for their collar (but I understand this might be an IC thing, I don't know).  Secondly, once they have a collar, you don't just let them run off and hope they behave productively.  There used to be a time when every templar had at least one pet gemmer, and for every mission they went on they brought them or some other random gemmer along.  Eventually it grew to the point where they started taking teams of gemmers along and then there was a backlash on the forums because players of mundane soldiers felt marginalized (and rightly so in many cases).  After that, like 80% of the templars were gemmer-haters and would use soldiers exclusively, leaving the gemmers with nothing to do except join House Oash.  (That cycle also kind of repeated itself with the CAM, but I don't want to talk about that.)  I'd kinda like to see things get back to the older, more balanced way.  Templars: take a gemmer along with you on a mission, but try to limit yourself to just one unless its something big like an HRPT.  Doesn't matter if you don't really need them, or if you don't even get a chance to use them, just try to involve them.

Agent_137

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Re: 1000th time... Haggle for a Gem
« Reply #26 on: March 20, 2009, 12:27:10 PM »
talking about magick publically IS illegal and those gemmers should have their fingers/toes/tongues cut off by any half decent templar without the need for a bribe and without being able to bribe their way out.


i blame the templars and the mundanes for letting the gemmers get away it it. TATTLE ON THEM.

and other than that, I suggest the templars read moe's last paragraph above.

X-D

  • Posts: 5728
Re: 1000th time... Haggle for a Gem
« Reply #27 on: March 20, 2009, 12:29:29 PM »
I'm in agreement with Moe on all points.
A gaunt, yellow-skinned gith shrieks in fear, and hauls ass.
Lizzie:
If you -want- me to think that your character is a hybrid of a black kryl and a white push-broom shaped like a penis, then you've done a great job

Decameron

  • Posts: 589
Re: 1000th time... Haggle for a Gem
« Reply #28 on: March 20, 2009, 12:48:22 PM »
  Eventually it grew to the point where they started taking teams of gemmers along and then there was a backlash on the forums because players of mundane soldiers felt marginalized (and rightly so in many cases).  After that, like 80% of the templars were gemmer-haters and would use soldiers exclusively, leaving the gemmers with nothing to do except join House Oash.  (That cycle also kind of repeated itself with the CAM, but I don't want to talk about that.)  I'd kinda like to see things get back to the older, more balanced way. 

Hrm, actually ... Gemmed do have more options than being a member of House Oash or being a Templar's pet. There's plenty of Gemmed that can and do simply survive on their own, without being affiliated to one clan or the other. However, simply because '80%' of the Gemmed have 'nothing to do but join House Oash' doesn't mean that they can't be included in your stated Templar missions. Templars have the right to use the Gemmed as they wish, and while they can and sometimes do run into trouble using others employees without actually notifying the Noble employer, that's politics. I am not sure those older balanced times were particularly as balanced as we might recall, now - would things be balanced if the Gemmed were merely split between these two clans? I am not certain I understand where a balance comes into play, unless it is a balance between mundane pcs and magicker pcs within Allanak as a whole, rather than in two organizations which may or may not employ them.

Marauder Moe

  • Posts: 13005
Re: 1000th time... Haggle for a Gem
« Reply #29 on: March 20, 2009, 01:19:02 PM »

Hrm, actually ... Gemmed do have more options than being a member of House Oash or being a Templar's pet. There's plenty of Gemmed that can and do simply survive on their own, without being affiliated to one clan or the other.
True.  My statement wasn't well-constructed, but the point is that the templarate is capable of creating a lot of activity for gemmed players, and without the willingness to do so the options and activity for gemmed PCs is reduced.

Quote
However, simply because '80%' of the Gemmed have 'nothing to do but join House Oash' doesn't mean that they can't be included in your stated Templar missions.
Yes, of course they can.  However, from what I've seen it's not always a common thing.  That's my point.  Templars should make more use of gemmed.

EDIT: but not too much use of gemmed.

Quote
I am not sure those older balanced times were particularly as balanced as we might recall, now - would things be balanced if the Gemmed were merely split between these two clans? I am not certain I understand where a balance comes into play, unless it is a balance between mundane pcs and magicker pcs within Allanak as a whole, rather than in two organizations which may or may not employ them.
By balance I meant balance between templarate missions relying on soldiers vs. relying on gemmers.  I feel that soldiers should be relied upon, and they should do the brunt of the work and be in the thick of the action.  However, I think gemmers should still be included but largely in supporting roles rather than being the stars.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2009, 01:23:05 PM by Marauder Moe »

Malken

  • Posts: 9120
Re: 1000th time... Haggle for a Gem
« Reply #30 on: March 20, 2009, 01:33:01 PM »
I'm not sure why this conversation is heading toward gemmers needing to have more interesting things to do, actually, maybe there's so many of them lately because other gemmers make the role interesting and it's being noticed, and many more want to join in the fun. Half the current gemmer playerbase never hang out in the Gaj or public taverns, can you imagine if the roles were currently boring for them, you'd have twice as many in the Gaj that you currently have right now.

There's PLENTY to do as a gemmer.

It's like any other roles, really, some players in it are making interesting things happen, so people notice it, so they create gemmers of their own, so it grows..

Again, I just have no idea where the discussion is heading, some people who are not currently playing gemmers or even playing in Allanak are making wild guesses as  to the why and how things are/should be.. Some players want to tell others how it really is but can't because it's IC infos, some will say there's too many of them and some Staff will come and put numbers down and say it's just fine the way it is.

Really, again, I don't think there's much point to a thread like this, if the Staff thinks there's too many of them, they will either do something about it, or won't.. Players telling other players how to act or play never changes much, in my experience.

Edited to add: Oh, and just like I had predicted in the last thread like this one, I've noticed quite the noticeable increase in gemmers since that last thread was created. If you want less gemmers around in game, the last thing you want is to create a thread like this one.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2009, 01:36:15 PM by Malken »
“When I was a fighting man, the kettle-drums they beat;
The people scattered gold-dust before my horse’s feet;
But now I am a great king, the people hound my track
With poison in my wine-cup, and daggers at my back.”

Morrolan

  • Posts: 2760
Re: 1000th time... Haggle for a Gem
« Reply #31 on: March 20, 2009, 09:36:16 PM »
http://dogwood.phpwebhosting.com/~tvshrine/buffy/b-pissoff.wav

But really...this is the whole dead-horse thing all over.
"I have seen him show most of the attributes one expects of a noble: courtesy, kindness, and honor.  I would also say he is one of the most bloodthirsty bastards I have ever met."

Moofassa

  • Posts: 2209
Re: 1000th time... Haggle for a Gem
« Reply #32 on: March 21, 2009, 09:29:54 PM »
I don't really know why people including immortals are giving a player who has possibly returned due to the email, or for any other reason, a hard time about reviving a post.

It's elitist and makes us look like assholes. If you don't want to read it, don't.


Think of the noobs.
your mother is an elf.

Zoan

  • Posts: 4186
Re: 1000th time... Haggle for a Gem
« Reply #33 on: March 22, 2009, 01:04:20 AM »
In Vrun Driath there are no noobs. There are only victims.   ;D
Quote from: Agameth
Goat porn is not prohibited in the Highlord's city.

evil_erdlu

  • Posts: 437
Re: 1000th time... Haggle for a Gem
« Reply #34 on: March 22, 2009, 03:22:57 AM »
[RANT]
Since I joined Arm, how many threads about magickers have I read? 10? 20? 30?

I'm bored of it. Just get along. Of course I'm a newbie and I have played only two mages, but I'd like to propose something for both gemmers and mundanes.

Gemmers:

1. Mundanes hate you. Period. HATE BACK! It doesn't mean you have to set deathtraps for them. They are filth.. They're leeching off the protection the Godking grants them and living their happy, irresponsible lives. They are worse than elves (or humans, if you're an elf). You don't need to bother with them.
2. There are enough gemmers in the quarter. Hunt a scrab, find a krathi/grill to cook it, make the vivaduan <censored> and party in Vivadu's.. You don't need Gaj. It's filthy, its food and drinks are low quality and people hate you there.
3. Fear other mages. Don't stand idly when a Drovian speaks about the secrets of the quarter or a Krathi suddenly erupts in flames. MAGICK IS SCARY, even for you. Show your fear for the first, second, third, fourth and maybe the fifth times you observe something weird.
4. It's rumored Krathi can lose control of magick and explode. Drovians collect skulls. They say it's for components but how do you know? Vivaduans are much more sinister than you think they are. Rukkians are freaks living underground without light and life half their lives. Whiran magick is supposed to backlash often, like the weather itself. Elkrans? Lightning will ALWAYS follow the orders of that weakling?
5. Fear templars. They're letting you live, pay back. In most minds utter fear causes love, even lust. Show it.

Mundanes:

1. So you hate magickers. Good. But you hate mekillots too and you don't spit on them. C'mon, the gemmer sees the glasshacker on your back and there are no soldiers outside the gates. Don't risk your life to pour out your hatred.
2. Don't think if you show your hatred the gemmer will leave. He may instead decide to stay a little more while, sit _beside_ you, order a drink and touch your nerves even more. Ignore them and they'll leave, devoid of the interaction they require IC and OOC. Make them feel good even by making them think "Oh yeah I'm special. Everyone fears me." and they'll savour the feeling staying longer. There are three taverns you can frequent easily - Gaj, Red's, Silver Ginka.. Pick another tavern if necessary. (Actually, a gemmer shouldn't have a reason to spend a lot of time in Gaj anyway.. Read above my rantings about gemmers)
3. A soldier is more believeable than a magicker, eh? Befriend a soldier. Show him the situation. If he himself can't force them out, a templar will listen to the soldier's accusations.
4. Make up superstitions. Spit on your side and pat your forehead twice when you see a Rukkian frown or your house will be ruined. Do _not_ let a vivaduan smile at you or your EVERY sexual experience will result in children. DO NOT sit in between a krathi and the sun itself or you'll burn. Buy a granite cross and wear it to avoid curses, etc etc... I don't think the staff will frown upon you being creative.

For both:

DO NOT WASTE GDB SPACE WITH ANY MORE MAGICKER THREADS. USE THE REQUEST TOOL TO REPORT UNREALISTIC RP OF OTHERS.

[/RANT]
Q  : Where do you piss?
Yam: On elves.
Q  : And if the area, lacks elves at the given time?
Yam: Scan.

Fathi

  • Posts: 4564
Re: 1000th time... Haggle for a Gem
« Reply #35 on: March 22, 2009, 03:33:42 AM »
Do _not_ let a vivaduan smile at you or your EVERY sexual experience will result in children.

Rolling off the tall, muscular man, sweat glistening on his forehead, you say, in sirihish:
  "... Amos, that was amazin', it was even better than it is with girls."

Gazing at you adoringly, the lanky, blonde man says to you, in sirihish:
  "Malik, I think I'm pregnant."
And I vanish into the dark
And rise above my station

Majikal

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  • Posts: 3075
Re: 1000th time... Haggle for a Gem
« Reply #36 on: March 22, 2009, 05:44:18 AM »
I think the Gaj has gotten used to gemmers talking about magick stuff :P

THIS has annoys me! To the dungeons with these riot-starting dangerous and cursed demons!

Make vague references of something suspiciously gicky in a way those normal bastards won't understand, whisper it, way it, but don't discuss what you've roasted with your gickiness at the bar, it should be VERY common knowledge that such talk is dangerous. To the poles with'm!
A staff member sends you:
"Normally we don't see a <redacted> walk into a room full of <redacted> and start indiscriminately killing."

You send to staff:
"Welcome to Armageddon."

SMuz

  • Posts: 2540
Re: 1000th time... Haggle for a Gem
« Reply #37 on: March 22, 2009, 06:03:37 AM »
I like what evil_erdlu wrote :)
Clans can give stat bonuses and penalties, too. The Byn drop in wisdom is particularly notorious.

Yokunama

  • Posts: 1894
Re: 1000th time... Haggle for a Gem
« Reply #38 on: March 22, 2009, 09:38:33 AM »
There's PLENTY to do as a gemmer.

If there isn't anything to do, 'gemmers' can always make some fun for themselves.

Code: [Select]
>drop pants
 You do not have that item.

BuNutzCola

  • Posts: 561
Re: 1000th time... Haggle for a Gem
« Reply #39 on: March 22, 2009, 12:24:56 PM »
There's PLENTY to do as a gemmer.

If there isn't anything to do, 'gemmers' can always make some fun for themselves.

That's the whole thing. The entire issue I see with a lot of magickers.

They are mundane. They are -people-. They just happen to have a terrible curse or astounding blessing (depending on how they view it)

But I see most magickers become that. 'gickers. Not people. Magick is the sole focus of everything they do. In all the 'gickers I've played with over the years, only a very small selection of them seemed like real humans/elves to me, spell-slinging aside.

Have fears, desires, dreams. Not related to magick at all. Sure you're ostracized, but maybe you really really just want to be the best damn dart player the Bard's Barrel has ever known.
<Morgenes> Dunno if it's ever been advertised, but we use Runequest as a lot of our inspiration, and that will be continued in Arm 2
<H&H> I can't take that seriously.
<Morgenes> sorry HnH, can't take what seriously?
<H&H>Oh, I read Runescape. Nevermin

Malken

  • Posts: 9120
Re: 1000th time... Haggle for a Gem
« Reply #40 on: March 22, 2009, 12:35:56 PM »
But I see most magickers become that. 'gickers. Not people. Magick is the sole focus of everything they do. In all the 'gickers I've played with over the years, only a very small selection of them seemed like real humans/elves to me, spell-slinging aside.

The way the magick system is, I blame it. Seriously, there needs to be a better way to gain new spells and improve the ones you have right now, in Arm 2.0

I feel bad for anyone that plays a magicker and only has two hours a day or so to dedicate to Arm, you can either be a magicker, or have a social life (in game).

It's a terrible system that brings the worse in the players I've seen (including me), over the years.
“When I was a fighting man, the kettle-drums they beat;
The people scattered gold-dust before my horse’s feet;
But now I am a great king, the people hound my track
With poison in my wine-cup, and daggers at my back.”

Is Friday

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Re: 1000th time... Haggle for a Gem
« Reply #41 on: March 22, 2009, 12:37:57 PM »
I don't agree. I've played magickers who did both. I think I've had one straight gemmer, the rest were hidden, even--which is in my opinion, is harder to play than a gemmer.

edit: The magick system is so boring I don't see how anyone could just straight twink, anyway. (That's pretty beyond my patience threshold.)
And then I sat there going "really? that was it? that's so stupid."

I still think the best closure you get in Armageddon is just moving on to the next character.

RogueGunslinger

  • Posts: 19160
Re: 1000th time... Haggle for a Gem
« Reply #42 on: March 22, 2009, 01:59:00 PM »
There's only so many way you can emote, and think/feel a magickal process that we know absolutely nothing about. I agree with Malken. The first Magicker I had(when I was playing 6+ hours a day) Was so much fun. He did everything, and had lots of fun. The few magickers I've had since, now that my playtimes are sparse, just seem to be me logging in and skill-grinding for thirty minutes before I log off bored and frustrated.

spawnloser

  • Posts: 7313
Re: 1000th time... Haggle for a Gem
« Reply #43 on: March 22, 2009, 10:36:41 PM »
The way the magick system is, I blame it. Seriously, there needs to be a better way to gain new spells and improve the ones you have right now, in Arm 2.0

I feel bad for anyone that plays a magicker and only has two hours a day or so to dedicate to Arm, you can either be a magicker, or have a social life (in game).
...because then your socializing will cut into your powergaming.
Quote from: Malifaxis
We need to listen to spawnloser.
Quote from: Reiteration
spawnloser knows all

Quote from: Spoon
A magicker is kind of like a mousetrap, the fear is the cheese. But this cheese has an AK47.

Malken

  • Posts: 9120
Re: 1000th time... Haggle for a Gem
« Reply #44 on: March 22, 2009, 10:48:15 PM »
The way the magick system is, I blame it. Seriously, there needs to be a better way to gain new spells and improve the ones you have right now, in Arm 2.0

I feel bad for anyone that plays a magicker and only has two hours a day or so to dedicate to Arm, you can either be a magicker, or have a social life (in game).
...because then your socializing will cut into your powergaming.

 ::)
“When I was a fighting man, the kettle-drums they beat;
The people scattered gold-dust before my horse’s feet;
But now I am a great king, the people hound my track
With poison in my wine-cup, and daggers at my back.”

Rhyden

  • Posts: 4945
Re: 1000th time... Haggle for a Gem
« Reply #45 on: March 22, 2009, 10:56:47 PM »
Even though you're probably right, spawnloser, I can't help but seeing your response and reading it as...

The way the magick system is, I blame it. Seriously, there needs to be a better way to gain new spells and improve the ones you have right now, in Arm 2.0

I feel bad for anyone that plays a magicker and only has two hours a day or so to dedicate to Arm, you can either be a magicker, or have a social life (in game).
...bait, bait bait bait, baity bait bait. Hey, want some bait? Here's some bait.

Seriously man, your ideas are good, and you're usually right, but do you always have to bait?
Quote from: Malifaxis
One thing I'd like to see in arm is more people focusing on how to make the game intriguing, by filling
it with murder, betrayal, and corruption, instead of arguing about how combat isn't powerful enough.

Agent_137

  • Posts: 5532
    • a crapy clawn
Re: 1000th time... Haggle for a Gem
« Reply #46 on: March 23, 2009, 12:52:33 AM »
let's keep this thread on track: rehashing old topics. Leave the baiting and the calling out of said baiting on the PMs.

more employment for gemmers would be helpful. it's much better to send them on suicide missions than have them silently spamming spells alone.

Lizzie

  • Posts: 8192
Re: 1000th time... Haggle for a Gem
« Reply #47 on: March 23, 2009, 08:31:28 AM »
I hire gemmers, if they're worth hiring for the tasks I need doing. Just because someone has a gem around their neck, doesn't mean the character is someone my character would be willing to use for the task.

For instance..a vivaduan to fill a cistern that's probably about as big as 10 kegs. I would NOT hire a vivaduan who can only fill a 1/4 barrel at a time, because I'd be spending the next few RL hours standing there watching (since I'm not gonna let no stinkin filthy gemmer onto my property unsupervised).

For instance...a drovian to..erm..create a shadow-puppet play for some good pals over there. I'm not gonna hire a rinthi elf drovian for the job, no matter how good he is at shadow-puppet plays, because he's an elf, and because he's a rinthi.

For instance...a krathi to fireball my enemy, the rinthi elf drovian. Well DOH, I'm not gonna hire the rinthi breed krathi, everyone knows he'll just tip off the drovian and they'll both turn and kill me instead.

So really - it's a matter of the right fit. If you want your gemmer to find work with mundanes, then make your character "fit to be in the presence" of those mundanes. If you have a rinthi elf drovian, don't be surprised if no one outside the rinth wants anything to do with you, let alone hire you for a job.
Talia said: Notice to all: Do not mess with Lizzie's GDB. She will cut you.
Delirium said: Notice to all: do not mess with Lizzie's soap. She will cut you.

SMuz

  • Posts: 2540
Re: 1000th time... Haggle for a Gem
« Reply #48 on: March 23, 2009, 08:37:05 AM »
Lol, rinthi elf drovians have better things to do with their magick than finding jobs.
Clans can give stat bonuses and penalties, too. The Byn drop in wisdom is particularly notorious.

spawnloser

  • Posts: 7313
Re: 1000th time... Haggle for a Gem
« Reply #49 on: March 23, 2009, 09:39:54 AM »
Rhyden, I think my point was clearly made... why can someone be content to play a tavern-sitting, non-practicing mundane but as soon as they're playing a magicker, they feel the need or compulsion to go practice their spells?  What's the difference?
Quote from: Malifaxis
We need to listen to spawnloser.
Quote from: Reiteration
spawnloser knows all

Quote from: Spoon
A magicker is kind of like a mousetrap, the fear is the cheese. But this cheese has an AK47.