Treasure hunting

[Anonymous]

Has anyone else come across things in Arm like a potential treasure and such that was made impossible to attain by the imms?
It seems to me that is the case every time I've found anything like that in Arm...and it's really frustrating.
Seems to me that it shouldn't even be there if for OOC reasons it is impossible, for example the way I feel about it;the imms just don't want you to succede and IMHO used extra OOC means to prevent it,means that IC aren't fair and don't give you a fair chance no matter how well RP'ed and no matter how good of a plan the PC's have come up with.
I'd just like to know if any others have encountered these types of things and what others think about the subject.

[Vendyra]

You have to ask yourself: is it realistic?  It doesn't matter how well roleplayed your plan was.  If you are trying to dash toward a metal ring that's protected by three NPC guards, you can roleplay until your hands fall off from typing so much.  It just isn't going to happen.

Another thing i'd like to point out is that something that may seem to be treasure may not be.  Think about Pandora's Box.

I don't feel the immortals try to keep people from achieving goals and finding treasure or other interesting things, but if it doesn't work repeatedly you may need to try another spot.  In the past, staff has worked FOR the treasure seekers and offered opportunities which the goal was attainable by those who sought it.

[Anonymous]

Vendyra-
No offense intended but dashing at three npc guards trying to get the metal ring is in no way similar to what I was speaking of nor is it a realistic and well thought out plan...if fact your example is in no way relevant to what I'm speaking of and I'm surprised you posted it.
Obviously, I wouldn't have posted what I did if I hadn't asked myself the question; is it realistic?
I personally find your response rather insulting and in no way helpful...

[Lazloth]

Hey Guest,

Not to burst your balloon, but I have very little clue what you're talking about above.  Why don't you provide an example; doctor it up if you're concerned it's too IC-sensitive.

Has anyone else come across things in Arm like a potential treasure and such that was made impossible to attain by the imms?

And personally, every time I've seen anything that would equate to a 'treasured item', there was always an imm involved somewhere in the chain of events that made such a viable possibility.

[Vendyra]

Guest, I would be happy to speak to you through private messages or e-mails to further explain what I said.  I stand by it and don't feel as though it was offensive.  That was not the intention.

Returning to the three-guard situation.. maybe you have one friend distracting a guard, another running toward them while affected by a magickal incantation, etc.  I didn't mean going at them gung-ho without a plan.  As for not coming close to your situation, Lazloth is correct.  I can't make observations if I have no general idea what you're talking about.

[Eclipse]

God, I hope somebody smacks you upside the head, Guest. You've not only posted anonymously but you also made the idea of your 'event' so vague that nobody in the world could possibly know what you mean unless they WERE there. If you have a problem with something that happened in game, e-mail the MUD account with a log and explain your side of the story. They're very good with this type of thing and will look into it if they feel your claims are relevent.

On another note, when you get prissy about the staff, you might want to consider how this game came into existence. It was due to the work of the staff and most of them will try to help players through the game and help them resolve what problems them have. The staff in general, from my perspective, have made every attempt to make the game as realistic as possible. If there's a metal kingdom you're about to stumble on, they won't STOP you from stumbling on it. They'll just make it realistic in such a way that not everyone could just stumble on the metal kingdom and become almighty. Artifacts and valuable items WILL be protected. Whether by NPC guards or by mechanisms that you aren't even familiar with. Did you consider that maybe the reason you couldn't acquire the item was because you lacked the experience or knowledge that you would need to acquire it? Maybe the item in question is protected by powerful magicks that don't permit your character to come near it without killing you. Or maybe, you just have to find a manner of bypassing the security system in place. Artifacts and whatnot do not just fall out of the sky. You can emote, say, RP whatever the hell you want but unless it has the potential of bypassing those security mechanisms, the staff should not and I hope they never do, allow you to get the item just because you RPed a great scene. The scene itself should be the purpose of the adventure, not the acquisition of the object. The object is just a little prize that you get for being innovative and having discovered a way around whatever obstacles were in your path.

When a staff member tries to help you out, they're spending some of their leisure time to answer your question and hopefully find a way to help you deal with it. When you become offensive about having some potentially useful help by somebody that is willing to spend a lot of their time to help out players, you might want to take into consideration future players that may seek out answers to questions they have. People that receive negative feedback typically will not commit to such activity again. I'm certain though, there will be more questions, more people that want answers to why this or that didn't happen and would be grateful for a reply from the people that know the game best. So if not for yourself then for the other players of this game (present and future), don't insult or annoy the staff by trivializing their attempt to help you.

The only possible thing I can relate this to is a certain location that does require staff help to get into the bulk of because of the possible wealth and item types accrued from there could really upset the game balance and stuff if they became common use and practice to achieve. But chances are if you find or even seriously work at getting in the staff would have no qualms... if again its realistic.

But otherwise I personally have never been stopped from acquiring 'treasure' by the staff. I dont even know what that can mean? Was there like a metal helmet somewhere then when you picked it up the Staff popped in loaded 12 Braxat's and then left you to fight them? Or what? Are you even sure the 'Staff' is keeping you from attaining whatever it is your talking about? Or do you mean you stumbled into a relatively hard area with potentially high profit should you survive but were illprepared and manned to complete such a mission and died? Or are you just upset because you couldnt and figure that since you couldnt there must be higher powers conspiring against you?

And on a related note. How the Staff wants their game played or whatever is their business. There is VERY LITTLE if any 'pointless' or illogical items/scenarios in the game, and if you run into one that is there are alot more constructive and polite ways to go about it then posting a vague veiled insult at the way the game is designed, ASSUMING its immpossible because you failed, AND then telling a staff member her point was irrelevent when I dont think anyone knows what your talking about... thus unable to respond relevently.

Now to address the original post more indepth in an attempt to make reason of your dilema.

Seems to me that it shouldn't even be there if for OOC reasons it is impossible, for example the way I feel about it;the imms just don't want you to succede and IMHO used extra OOC means to prevent it,means that IC aren't fair and don't give you a fair chance no matter how well RP'ed and no matter how good of a plan the PC's have come up with.

Chances are its not immpossible. If its in the game its achievable. Maybe requiring some staff help, but they do wish to help you. One time in the Byn we had to kill a Salt worm, but couldnt carry it with all of us. So we role-played out the tying up of the corpse with hooks and ropes we had brought in our plan and then dragging it back with the help of it being fastened to our kanks and things. We didnt actually have the corpse with us, but the staff helped us. If you mean something more base like you stumbled into the Treasure Room of the Fallen King Blahblah and then when loaded up with gold you tried to leave and 10 Grand-Knights of his Court rose up and slew you, that might -seem- impossible. But what if you were a magicker? Maybe had the ability to travel unseen. What if you had brought 2-score guards with you. Might not seem so immpossible then.

Anyways... maybe clarify your post some with a doctored up situation.

[Anonymous]

God I hope somebody smacks you upside the head Eclipse...that was uncalled for and I was trying to prevent giving up too muc IC information.

To clarify for anyone who didn't understand the imm it seemed to me used an uberversion of something in the game against the PC's to prevent them from attaining their goal...a version of something so powerful there is NO defense against it by ANYONE save for the imms and making it IC unfeasable for the PC's to ever make another attempt at it therefore, making it impossible...
This post was not intended to insult the imms or piss anyone off but it seemed to me that only the powers of the imms could make it that impossible to get past...it's not like it was an NPC precoded with certain abilites it was more like going directly against an imm themself which NO group of pc's can compete

[Vendyra]

it's not like it was an NPC precoded with certain abilites

How do you know it wasn't?  Staff members aren't always out to get your characters.  There are NPCs out there which do have certain abilities.  These abilities do not just pop up out of nowhere for no reason.

[Anonymous]

There was no offense intended but just read Vendyra's example without seeing what was posted after...it looks like she was saying we were trying to do something absolutely absurd...which is why I took it as irrelevant and insulting.
And I seriously think Eclipse needs to take a look at what Eclipse posted before jumping all over me...look like a FLAME if you ask me...

[creeper386]

Guest, not only was your post more convulutedly twisted then most of mine, you get angry because people try to make sense of it and respond? Alright.

As for things being tough, or high near impossible. It's a real world. In our real world do you think a few humans would have made it after facing off against a really pissed off lizard? Lots of things are hard enough to be near impossible and lots more just as unreachable by most people. You aren't playing any super heroes in Armageddon. So lots of things are going to be impossible.

And yes, you original post as well as the ones afterwards can be viewed as rather offensive from the view point that you seem your absolutely right and really don't care for input just looking to poke jabs at the Staff members. Your best recomendation is going to email the MUD account and acctually giving some... Oh wow, information to try to get any answers. Instead you came acrossed as someone greatly wronged, and the very little you saw means that your idea of what happened is absolutely right, and you poke jabs at the Staff.

Without the staff there wouldn't be much of a game. Some people may say without the players there wouldn't be much of a game either, but theres not that many people out there that think poorly of the staff and the game might be better off without you if you think the Staff is bad and cheating and out to get you, or that the Staff NEEDS you to play.

Creeper

[Anonymous]

I'm not getting angry about people trying to make sense of it I'm angry about people posting things LIKE: God, I hope someone smacks you upside the head...blah blah blah...

Do you Creeper honestly think that was necessary or helpful in any way?

And Creeper human beings in the real world can kill even the largest reptiles on our planet...without guns...using things also found in Zalanthas...human beings are the ultimate hunter on this planet.
And again since noone seems to be listening, other than a few folks who have mentioned it. I'm getting blamed for being unclear instead of understood for not giving too much IC info.
I didn't say the staff was bad or that I was needed people are adding things other than SPECIFICALLY what I stated. I'm being accused of saying things by most of you so far that I DID NOT SAY.
I never once said I thought poorly of the staff, all I said was that I felt their were powers ONLY the imms have used against us.

[Cenghiz]

OK... My English is not that fluent but even I think that you are just angry with the staff, guest... And...

I'm a human being. I don't think I can even kill a deer or such with or without guns. Human beings are the ultimate hunters if they are well trained.

To clarify for anyone who didn't understand the imm it seemed to me used an uberversion of something in the game against the PC's to prevent them from attaining their goal...a version of something so powerful there is NO defense against it by ANYONE save for the imms and making it IC unfeasable for the PC's to ever make another attempt at it therefore, making it impossible...
This post was not intended to insult the imms or piss anyone off but it seemed to me that only the powers of the imms could make it that impossible to get past...it's not like it was an NPC precoded with certain abilites it was more like going directly against an imm themself which NO group of pc's can compete

This part tells me that you're blaming the imms about sending you a super killer to stop you. I did that once to Tlaloc, then I saw that I was the wrong one. Please, first ask the staff, then execute all the imms with your steel katana if necessary.

[creeper386]

You ask me if I think that was useful or helpful in anyway... Well, it's much more useful and helpful then this whole thread you've made.

As for being the ultimate hunter... Thats far from true. Even with are fancy weapons we are little compared to most animals. Overall we aren't fitted for any specific enviroment which is good in a way, but also means we can't excel as much as most animals. Over all, compared to most animals, humans are slow and with tools still don't exceed over most animals, and without tools are most the time a sitting duck.

I highly doubt many people would stand up to a large dinosaur with just bone and wood weapons, and thats the stupider ones. Pretty sure Jurassic Park might have been alittle over board but through studies it's been show that some of the smaller ones, different raptors and such were fairly intelligent when it came to hunting as well as being extremely fast, and comes with the built in tools needed to kill and eat it's food.

Humans aren't even close to being good hunters, we are good tool users.

And, I wasn't out to try and insult you, myself. I'm just saying you post comes acrossed as rather rude, rather you meant to or not, and as if you are just pissed off at the Staff for something your bound to not know for sure. The post is fairly useless here. It gets nothing done. The little bit about asking if anyone else had those problems seemed to be more for causing trouble, or to slightly veil your disgust for whatever the Staff did to you. If it's such a problem, and obviously you can't let out IC information. The board does little good unless your trying to cause some sort of Staff hate group or something. I don't know.

Email the MUD account with the information. They'll probably look into it regardless and tell you what happened. I'm pretty sure they'd do that. And trust me when I say some animals can be really mean and have VERY intelligent scripts, and I have only ran into common run of the mill animals. Nothing really intelligent or powerful besides sheer bulk and strength.

Creeper who thinks if people have a problems with NPC animals... Should see some of the stuff on NPC Warriors and such... SCARY.

[5 day lifespan]

I'm going to steal the Dragon some day.

[spawnloser]

I'm going to steal the Dragon some day.

Not if I get it first.  

[crymerci]

I'm going to steal the Dragon some day.

Heh, that's exactly what came into my mind as what Guest might have tried.

[Delirium]

Hah, you puny mortals and your dreams of "stealing" the dragon. I'm going to tame it and convince it to serve my every bidding, then ride it ahead of my army of thousands upon thousands of devoted mul slaves to do war with Tektolnes. First stop, Allanak.. next, the world!

And you can emote and say and justify things to your heart's content, but that does not necessarily mean you are RPing realistically.
I have never found the Imms to do anything but make the world more realistic and alive, and yes, that has included situations where my characters were in danger. You can get all paranoid and defensive and say 'They were trying to kill/punish/maim/obliterate me and make my life difficult!' or you can say 'They took the time to make the world come alive and react to my character's actions the way it should!'. Your choice. ;)

[crymerci]

Hah, you puny mortals and your dreams of "stealing" the dragon. I'm going to tame it and convince it to serve my every bidding, then ride it ahead of my army of thousands upon thousands of devoted mul slaves to do war with Tektolnes.

Oh...I was thinking more along the lines of the steel dragon.  But more power to you.

[Delirium]

Oh...I was thinking more along the lines of the steel dragon.  But more power to you.

Well, what could I do with a steel dragon? All it can do is sit there and look pretty. With no technology to turn it into super deadly weapons of ultimate destruction, it's useless for my plans to have total world domination. Useless, I say!

[Anonymous]

Muahahahahahahahahhaaaaaa!!!!


So you've figured out my fiendish plot....

Foolish mortals!!!

[Some Armag Player]

Posting anonymously so I can avoid the inevitable kiss-ass comments.

I just wanted to chime in that given the very vague original post, which doesn't come across as either very informative, concise, or well-thought-out...  you should expect what answers you got, and much worse.

In my experience, Vendyra is one of the most thoughtful and helpful imms around, and nothing in her post looks terribly insulting or offensive to me.  Sounds a lot more like you're a bit on the paranoid side.  "The imms are out to prevent me from doing anything." or "The Imms are insulting my intelligence!"

In my experience, if something is realistically attainable, and you put enough real WORK in coming up with a plausible plot, getting people involved IC, writing the mud account and getting a storyline going...  almost anything is possible in this game.

[Thirsty_McTandu]

...the imms just don't want you to succede and IMHO used extra OOC means to prevent it,means that IC aren't fair and don't give you a fair chance no matter how well RP'ed and no matter how good of a plan the PC's have come up with.
I'd just like to know if any others have encountered these types of things and what others think about the subject.

YOu know, this reminds me of my own attitude a long time ago.  I've been playing for years and have seen the best and worst of the s taff.  I had, even until about a year ago figured that the staff were twinking just as much, if not more, than the players.  It always seemed so damn unfair.  I totally agree with you guest.  It can seem that way.

Then, *surprise* I was invited on as staff.  I spent a very short time (two weeks) with the staff and watching the players.  I'll tell you this - I have never seen such a professional group of gamers before.  The staff of Armageddon is NOT out to make things unfair.  They aren't out to make them easy, but they have - as far as I could see - no motivation to make it unfair.  What motivation could they have?  What I observed of the staff was a desire to make a good story.

That's their desire.  What's yours?  Perhaps we, the players, need to look into our own motivations for playing and ask what motivates us?  Is it a desire to contribute to a good story or is there something else?

You might ask why I left after two weeks on staff.  I watched a lot of players and was greatly saddened.  I prefer to surround myself with folks interested in a good story.  As a staff member you have to play fairly with folks whose RP you don't respect.  That's a difficult job, if you ask me.

[Naephet]

Here's a little secret about the staff of Armageddon...

We like making things more difficult for players.

...Now that I've opened the floodgates, and vindicated every disgruntled ex-player, allow me to expand on that statement.

There is no way to win on Armageddon, other than to have fun.  Once you kill all the gith in the Red Desert, you won't get a key to Tektolnes' tower.  The Dragon isn't a boss to be killed.  It won't rain and end happily ever after if you get 500,000 coins.  The point of the game is not to be the toughest, coolest, meanest, sexiest, richest, most awesomest character of all time.

On Armageddon, the journey is its own reward, so we try to make it a fun and challenging one.  This doesn't mean we make things impossible.  Quite the contrary: on Arm, anything is possible.  But don't expect us to hand things to you conveniently gift-wrapped.

If you think things are being stacked unfairly against you, you should ask yourself how much you really know about the situation, and what is really plausible.  Which is more likely, that the steel dragon of Allanak has never been stolen because we, the imms, don't want you to have that much steel, or that Tektolnes actually has the manpower and ability to keep people from stealing it?

And Guest, since I'm fairly sure I know who you are, what you're referring to, and since I was the one behind it, I'd like you to think about something else:  Why would the staff support your character's actions up to a point, and then turn around and screw your character for no reason?

Naephet

[creeper386]

The point of the game is not to be the toughest, coolest, meanest, sexiest, richest, most awesomest character of all time.

Well... There goes my idea for a half-giant warrior/con-artist concept that was going to be a pimp and part time stripper... *SIGH*

Creeper