Author Topic: A Random Thought  (Read 1049398 times)

Synthesis

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Re: A Random Thought
« Reply #36075 on: November 06, 2017, 04:18:52 PM »
A "smartphone" isn't really a "luxury" these days, if you can get one with a service plan for less than $10 a month.  Beyond that...like I said...it's an essential item for getting around in the modern world, dude.  And you sure as hell ain't getting a luxury phone and a luxury data plan for $10 a month.

Is it strictly necessary? Maybe not.  However, giving people access to comms is such a basically good idea that even Republicans and Democrats can agree on it (the Telecommunications act of 1996 was passed by a Republican House 414-16, a Republican Senate 91-5, and signed by Bill Clinton), so like...maybe you should consider the possibility that your characterization of it as a mere luxury is a tad off the mark.
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Riev

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Re: A Random Thought
« Reply #36076 on: November 06, 2017, 04:19:33 PM »
Reminds me of a time I was in college and this family from Mexico's father worked at the local hotel. Guy worked like 12+ hours a day, always picking up time when he could, always scrounging for hours to pay for things.

Fuckers had a 70inch plasma in their living room.

They goddamned earned that TV with ramen dinners and forage-soup dreams.
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Marauder Moe

  • Posts: 12578
Re: A Random Thought
« Reply #36077 on: November 06, 2017, 04:26:34 PM »
It's because pretty much every possible social/political issue has been polarized into a left vs. right spectrum, and having one left/right belief is perceived to have a high correlation with having other beliefs of that pole.


Anyway, I'm with Synth.  Subsidizing a smartphone is probably one of the most cost effective ways of providing a pathway out of poverty.  It's a tool with pretty much everything you need for easy job searching.  Also let's not forget that social networking itself is also a VERY powerful means for finding work.

WarriorPoet

  • Posts: 4471
Re: A Random Thought
« Reply #36078 on: November 06, 2017, 05:00:58 PM »
I still don't see it as a necessity but your point that a phone is a powerful tool is well taken.

Still, even if I was passionately and radically against the whole concept I don't see how it translates into me preacbing white supremacy.
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HavokBlue

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Re: A Random Thought
« Reply #36079 on: November 06, 2017, 05:22:09 PM »
Programs like the one that provide subsidized/free phones to low-income people primarily benefit people of color, because income inequality and wealth disparity disproportionately affect people of color.

I think attacking people who don't understand this and calling them white supremacists is probably bad and ineffective. It's hard to win someone over or educate them with vitriol. Honey is sweeter.
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Is Friday

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Re: A Random Thought
« Reply #36080 on: November 06, 2017, 05:36:55 PM »
@warriorpoet you had me at UFC. <3
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Sayyadina

  • Posts: 346
Re: A Random Thought
« Reply #36081 on: November 07, 2017, 11:04:49 AM »
I wasn't outraged then or now. It was a nothing conversation that turned into a total freakout on this lady's part.

 The conversation started with my wife and I talking about our last pregancy. We applied for medicaid to help with the insane hospital bills. During the interview the lady kept asking my wife "Do you have foodstamps? Oh, we can help you get there. Are your bills paid? We can provide assistance. Do you have a car/carseat/PHONE?" Blah blah. No, we dont need any of that shit. We work hard, our bills are thankfully paid, we just need a little help with the 50k hospital bills. I thought that is what those programs were for. Normal working people that need a little help. But they were like pushing us toward it. Wanting us on the dole.

So we told that story at UFC party and I said something like "Of course people won't want to actually work if they hand out free food and rent and phones and that sucks. Food and healthcare are one thing, but smartphones aren't a necessity. Luxuries should be worked for."

And shortly this lady went fucking bonkers. We had all been drinking a little but it went from a friendly chat to me having no sympathy for minorities or poor people. I got called a trump supporter, I am not. A racist, I am not, and a white supremacist. I am certainly not. Bleh.

Just a new experience for me.  I am a lot of things. An asshole for sure. But a bigot? No. I have been called Hitler on the internet, but so has everyone else. But in the real world? It never came up and I have been sulking about it. Boo hoo.

I should know better, but it's still eye opening for me to see someone rightfully point out that they need help to pay for healthcare like pregnancies yet that same somebody can then turn around and heap scorn on those that need help paying for other necessities like food, housing, and communication.

To my eye it looks like people always feel their own successes are their own while their misfortunes aren't their responsibility. This is unfortunately human nature. Yet when those same people look at those beneath them, suddenly those poorer people are the cause of their own miserable situation. For example, it would be easy to take the same logic applied to recipients of food, housing, or communication assistance above, and apply it to recipients of Medicaid (with an added dose of virulent racism): "I'm rich sure, but I worked hard in college, medical school, residency, and fellowship and I work 60 to 80 hours a week now to earn everything I have, which includes paying my expensive health insurance premiums. These Latina layabouts on Medicaid should stop having so many kids if they can't work hard enough to get a good job with health insurance to cover all the babies they're pushing out."

We have a f*cked up system in our country (the richest country in the history of the planet FYI) where tons of people don't even have basic health care, as well as adequate food, housing, or communications. Being a recipient of Medicaid while disdaining recipients of food assistance etc. doesn't make someone racist necessarily, but it does signal a lack of empathy. Our country will never improve and people will continue to suffer and die needlessly for lack of access to healthcare, food, housing, or communications as long as the Medicaid recipients don't see their plight as being on the same spectrum as the plight of the food assistance recipients.
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WarriorPoet

  • Posts: 4471
Re: A Random Thought
« Reply #36082 on: November 07, 2017, 11:23:42 AM »
Who was heaping scorn? Certainly not me. The only problem I had with any of it is that the interviewer lady was actively pushing us toward it even though we told her no, we have all the rest handled. Why should we grab that aid money when we don't need it? There are people out there that DO need it and if we are using it up, that is one more family somewhere that won't get that help.

I understand people need help. As a nation we are wealthy enough to assist those in need but self sufficiency should always be the end goal.
We were somewhere near the Shield Wall, on the edge of the Red Desert, when the drugs began to take hold...

Aruven

  • Posts: 2387
Re: A Random Thought
« Reply #36083 on: November 07, 2017, 12:18:43 PM »
This thread....

There is nothing wrong with having the mindset that people don't necessarily need to be given free shit to elevate their circumstances.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2017, 12:27:59 PM by Aruven »

Synthesis

  • Posts: 9429
Re: A Random Thought
« Reply #36084 on: November 07, 2017, 12:35:54 PM »
This thread....

There is nothing wrong with having the mindset that people don't necessarily need to be given free shit to elevate their circumstances.

Yeah, actually...there's quite a bit wrong with that, but...okay, dude.
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Aruven

  • Posts: 2387
Re: A Random Thought
« Reply #36085 on: November 07, 2017, 05:19:44 PM »
This thread....

There is nothing wrong with having the mindset that people don't necessarily need to be given free shit to elevate their circumstances.

Yeah, actually...there's quite a bit wrong with that, but...okay, dude.

It sounds like from your point of view there is!

I was not fortunate to grow up receiving hand outs.

HavokBlue

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Re: A Random Thought
« Reply #36086 on: November 07, 2017, 05:45:45 PM »
A hand up and a hand out are not the same thing.

If we as a society can help more people succeed and more people pull themselves out of poverty, we should be doing that.
All the world will be your enemy. When they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you; digger, listener, runner, Prince with the swift warning. Be cunning, and full of tricks, and your people will never be destroyed.

tapas

  • Posts: 149
Re: A Random Thought
« Reply #36087 on: November 08, 2017, 03:56:24 AM »
From an economic perspective, it's total hogwash. Forget about the moral arguments for a moment.

Poverty is a drain on state resources. Training people, finding them good employment and supporting them during periods of economic distress are investments that pay dividends for years in advance.

Sayyadina

  • Posts: 346
Re: A Random Thought
« Reply #36088 on: November 08, 2017, 08:46:14 AM »
From an economic perspective, it's total hogwash. Forget about the moral arguments for a moment.

Poverty is a drain on state resources. Training people, finding them good employment and supporting them during periods of economic distress are investments that pay dividends for years in advance.

Exactly!

But from almost ANY perspective the view of "I didn't benefit from program X so NOBODY should get program X" doesn't make sense, though perhaps it is especially nonsensical from the moral perspective. I guess it does make sense from a Politics of Grievance perspective, though?
“No more should you doubt this, my prince – my sisters and I shall not wait ten-and-seven years for our vengeance.”

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BadSkeelz

  • Posts: 8257
Re: A Random Thought
« Reply #36089 on: November 08, 2017, 12:51:05 PM »
Is it immoral to think "Program X is being rejected by people it's designed to help because they'd rather cling to obsolete notions so whatever, fuck 'em and hope they enjoy the opiods?"

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-trump-effect-coal-retraining-insight/awaiting-trumps-coal-comeback-miners-reject-retraining-idUSKBN1D14G0

I don't really think they should enjoy the opiods, of course. But it does go to show that some people are just obsolete.
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Sayyadina

  • Posts: 346
Re: A Random Thought
« Reply #36090 on: November 08, 2017, 01:03:51 PM »
Is it immoral to think "Program X is being rejected by people it's designed to help because they'd rather cling to obsolete notions so whatever, fuck 'em and hope they enjoy the opiods?"

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-trump-effect-coal-retraining-insight/awaiting-trumps-coal-comeback-miners-reject-retraining-idUSKBN1D14G0

I don't really think they should enjoy the opiods, of course. But it does go to show that some people are just obsolete.

I wanna see everyone be helped regardless of which century their political views come from.

In your defense, though, opiods ARE enjoyable.
“No more should you doubt this, my prince – my sisters and I shall not wait ten-and-seven years for our vengeance.”

--Lady Nymeria Sand, A Feast for Crows

mansa

  • Posts: 9381
Re: A Random Thought
« Reply #36091 on: November 08, 2017, 07:29:09 PM »
more like "Melanogaster, default", amirite


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Lizzie

  • Posts: 7490
Re: A Random Thought
« Reply #36092 on: November 08, 2017, 10:21:04 PM »
Opioids. Like steroids and cannabinoids. o.i.d.s.
 :o
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Kialae

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Re: A Random Thought
« Reply #36093 on: November 10, 2017, 01:22:16 PM »

boog

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Re: A Random Thought
« Reply #36094 on: November 11, 2017, 10:59:49 AM »
College team themed wedding cakes. What in the blue fuck.
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Aruven

  • Posts: 2387
Re: A Random Thought
« Reply #36095 on: November 11, 2017, 07:41:30 PM »
How did I not have the discord phone app for so long?