what do elfs think of elfs stealing from them?

[kiddgoth]

Just a quick question, What do elfs think of other elfs that try or succed in stealing from them? Are they offended or are they like well done and all respectful? I read that the act of the theft is very much respected in the elven tribes but is that just when a elf steals from a non-elf race or does it apply within the elven community in general. I know stealing from ones tribe mate is frowned upon. Example joe-blow elf is sitting in the Gaj when sally-sue elf trys to lift his dagger from his belt but failing miserably. Does joe-blow glance over at sally-sue in a rage or does he smile and say nice try, but this is how its done? Maybe its up to the individual to decide, just wondering if theres a common thread in the inworkings of the elven persona.

[chang]

Good question.  I dunno.  

[krelin]

I would think a failed steal attempt might be met with some disdain.  And I would -hope- a successful one would go un-met entirely.  

[Angela Christine]

I think for the victim, elves don't like being stollen from anymore than the next guy, less even.  Being robbed or swindled is a humiliation.  Elves hate being taken advantage of.

But elven bystanders that aren't in the same tribe as either the thief or the victim would probably enjoy the show.  Either the victim loses something, so you make fun of him and pat the theif on the back.  Or the thief gets caught in the act, so you mock his clumsiness and ask if his grandfather was a half-giant.

Standard disclaimer: it depends on the tribes and individuals involved, ever situation is different, yadda yadda yadda.

AC

[creeper386]

I think stealing is respected among elves yes. But I think it's more from a first or third party perspective. I think getting stolen from, among elves would be worse then a human getting stolen from. Because the elves a thief himself. He just got beat at his own game, or at least that little section. And between tribes how things would go... I'd say it'd really deal with situations between the two tribes. If it's two tribes in some sort of symbiotic relationship, or some sort of "friendly" terms it could result in some sort of personal rivalry or something. If the tribes are at war, on unfriendly terms or something it could come down to a fight, or something more suave like complete annahilation through theft and humiliation and so on and so forth.


Creeper

[Angela Christine]

It might also depend on the value of the theft.  If you steal his pack, waterskin, hunting gear, or other things he needs to survive then you are endangering his life and the lives of his tribe members.  No one is going to react well to that.  On the other hand, if you managed to steal his feather earring without being caught, that might earn his grudging respect.  Stealing an earring is much harder than stealing some other items, so it shows a degree of skill and subtilty.  The daring of the theft will be more important in many cases than the 'sid value of the loot.

If you step out of a shadow and sap him andthen steal everything including his pants, well, so what?  Even a stupid half-giant could do that.  Teasing that ring off his finger or getting him to trust you so you can steal his great grandfathers bone skinning knife, now that is a scam to tell stories about.  When done properly theft is an art.

AC

[Armaddict]

I think stealing would be something regarded as a sort of talent among elves.  I've always tried to role-play it closer to as if you just got schooled in basketball, and you always thought you were pretty good.

"Damn, he got me.  He's fuckin' good.  I'm gonna hafta get better and teach him how a -real- elf steals."

Then, you proceed in a sort of 'stealing competition' with them so to speak, which can inflate a rivalry which builds up into really cool grudge role-play.  Elves are so coo

In short, I don't think it'd be a -huge- deal for most elves unless something of extreme value was taken.  That's like a blatant show of disrespect, rather than just 'playing the game'.

[Tlaloc]

I think part of elven thievery (and this is just my take on it, and I could be completely wrong), is that in tribal culture, often there is no sense of what is "Mine" and what is "Yours". This comes through much more in halfling culture, but elves might have a hint of it, too: there may be few personal possessions that an idividual elf has; but rather things belong to the Tribe. Your elf might be using it, but in the end, thats the Tribes waterskin, the Tribes sword, and the Tribes loincloth.

So if Tribemate B needs a waterskin, he might simply take it from Tribemate A, when Tribemate A isn't using it.

When meshed with a culture (such as humans and dwarves) that have a very specific, object oriented mentality of possession, this sort of behavior might be thought of as 'Theft'...partuclarly when an elf takes a dwarfs waterskin, because he wasn't using it.

Now, thats just one facet of it. Another facet lies in the rugged, harsh, and highly competitive environment elves (and the rest of Zalanthans) come from. Anytime you are able to steal, or con someone out of something that is thiers, you not only take away an edge of thiers, you sharpen yours. Effectively, you and your tribe become much more competitive over the other Tribe/Theft victim.

When an elf steals a kank from an unwary victim, he deny's that victim a mount/pack animal, and effectively gives himself and his tribe a competitive edge over everyone else (especially the victim). Now they have one more pack animal, allowing for a slightly easier journey in thier travels. I think this is the heart of why elves steal. They see it as 'Bravery', but they see it as such because, in the end, it gives them an edge over the competing forces in a harsh environment.

Because of this, they might view someone else stealing from them as a very brave act...but one which they should probably be hunted down and killed for. Or - at the very least - stolen back from. An elf only thinks in terms of his or her tribe. Anyone else is 'Outsider'...ergo, they would view an elf stealing from them (who wasn't in thier tribe) as they would view anyone else stealing from them. It probably isn't friendly at all...in fact, its very serious. Afterall...when that scrab starts chasing me down, and I reach for my belt to draw my sword and find nothing...well, I'm alittle screwed. And if I die, my tribe is hurt.

Does that make any sense at all?

As usual, this is just my point of view, and not nessecarially the view of the rest of the staff.

-Tlaloc

[sancho]

- - Long, long ago, I saw something in the docs about elven theft. Try as I might, I've been unable to locate it. However, it related that elves view theft in the same manner we view art. I cannot confirm that this is a staff position, but I have played by it and enjoyed the result. A master artist is someone that crates something that speaks to us, or that is magnificant yet impossible to reproduce. Similarly, the greater the theft, the more clout an elf will have amongst all other elves.

- - Theft of material things is fine. After all, even artists need to eat. However, a true elven thief would always be thinking about improving his/her reputation for theft. There are, of course, many varieties of theft. Conning someone is theft. Mercantilism is legalized theft. Picking pockets is theft. I've seen it argued that assassinating someone is stealing their life, but I think that's a terrible stretch since the victim can't feel the loss. Maybe if the death caused other people to feel the loss... but I digress.

- - The value of the stolen item is not only what it can be sold for, but also how much a sense of loss it will inspire in the victim. Not only that, but the risk involved in the theft, how hard it might be to reproduce, also add to the value of the theft. For example, stealing 1,000 'sid would be a fine day's work. On the other hand, if during a riot you knocked out a noble and cut off one of his/her fingers, that would arguably be a far more valuable trophy.

- - I really wish elven thieves were RPed with a little more creativity and boldness. My high-ranking Kuraci was the victim of a total bastard. Thief could have stolen anything, but s/he chose to steal the cheapest thing my character owned. S/He stole my character's veil. However, that veil was terribly important to him, and as such my character lost his damned mind for around 3 RL days. He'd previously had all of his tools (in belt-packs) stolen, and he hardly blinked an eye, but his veil was a soft spot. I was terribly pleased with the situation as well as the thief.

- - Now, in regards to the actual question about elves stealing from elves... If the elves are not in the same tribe/clan, they'd likely view theft as either a challenge or insult. To be stolen from is to be the victim instead of the perp'. Some, like my elven thief, would be impressed and decide to try and find the thief and steal something from him/her, as well as buy that person a drink.

- - On the other hand, an elf should never steal from another elf within the same tribe unless it is done without malice. What I mean is, unless it is a known competition or explicitly accepted, an elf should never take something from another clan member for himself/herself. Elves are incredibly loyal to their clans, and to steal for personal gain from another would be to weaken a member of one's own family. It would be incredibly unlikely to ever occur, unless an elf had abruptly gone rogue or lost his/her mind.

- - Like I said though, if it is part of the tribe's tradition to steal from one another or those elves are having some kind of contest, that's fine. That is what I mean by not stealing with malice. Just remember, an elf is incredibly loyal to those they choose to trust. My character stole from another elven thief, only to discover that he was a friend that he'd made a month or two prior (I forgot the guy's sdesc :oops: ).

- - Upon learning that he'd accidentally stolen from a friend when he later recognised him, I immediately fessed up to the crime IC and returned the item. Was I caught? No! I was the elven Uberthief! However, elven loyalty forced my character to admit to what he'd done upon realising his crime was committed upon a brother. Naturally I'd stolen a cheap but personal possession, so the other elf was miffed at first before realising the humor of the situation.