Author Topic: Animal sizes  (Read 8024 times)

theebie

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Animal sizes
« on: September 19, 2007, 05:34:58 AM »
Hi,

there's been quite frequent times now that I've seen people who seem to think that mekillots are way smaller than they are.

From what I have seen, they are -way- -way- bigger than half-giants,
several times their height.
Bahamet is about the size of half-giants, but meks are waaaaaay taller,
right ?

Like tall as in a 200 feet tall ?

Things like "a mekillot-drawn cart passes you on the caravan road" simply won't happen ? i doubt even that it would fit on a road at all ?


regards, theebie

Nile

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Animal sizes
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2007, 06:28:34 AM »
Seeing a mek drawn cart trundle down the road really gives me an impression of what 'Nak is like. Big, black, mean.
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spawnloser

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Animal sizes
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2007, 06:38:52 AM »
Um... 200' tall is probably a bit off.  Picture a brontosaurus.  Sure, they're 100' tall, but for that height, they aren't as wide as you might think.
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Elgiva

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Animal sizes
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2007, 07:46:23 AM »
Quote
Bahamet is about the size of half-giants...


Err... really?  :shock:

Gimfalisette

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Animal sizes
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2007, 12:25:51 PM »
The biggest kind of "critter" I know of in game is approx. 80 cords tall (equivalent to 100 feet), and it's not a mekillot. I'm sure that mekillots are significantly smaller than that, because they ARE small enough to fit on Nak's main roads. Half-giants are only up to like 15 feet tall, so even if a mek is a few times that, they're still a somewhat reasonable size.
I'm gonna go all Gimfalisette on you guys and lay down some numbers.

Eukelade

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« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2007, 02:24:56 PM »
Good question, Theebie.  Here's some numbers.

In the description of a gigantic, ruddy-brown mekillot, it says they are 25 cords long, and twice the height of a half giant.

A half giant is about 150 inches tall.

The walls of Luirs Outpost are the height of two half giants (around 300 inches tall).

An inix is taller than a half giant (around 220 inches tall).

A silt flyer is taller than an inix (around 240 inches tall).

The walls of Allanak are 50 cords tall (750 inches).

A scrab is smaller than all of these things (98 inches tall).
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a strange shadow

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Animal sizes
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2007, 02:56:40 PM »
Are these height numbers for animals including their length, or has length already been subtracted from the total?

Because damn, those inix are BIG.

amish overlord

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Animal sizes
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2007, 03:31:57 PM »
Quote from: "Eukelade"
Good question, Theebie.  Here's some numbers.

In the description of a gigantic, ruddy-brown mekillot, it says they are 25 cords long, and twice the height of a half giant.

A half giant is about 150 inches tall.

The walls of Luirs Outpost are the height of two half giants (around 300 inches tall).

An inix is taller than a half giant (around 220 inches tall).

A silt flyer is taller than an inix (around 240 inches tall).

The walls of Allanak are 50 cords tall (750 inches).

A scrab is smaller than all of these things (98 inches tall).


A mekillot is then according to this webpage http://www.armageddon.org/general/misc.html

With a cord = 15 zalthanian inches 375 inches tall. So taller than luir's walls.

So to translate to real life terms (assuming 1 zalthanian in = 1 earth inch about) 31 1/4 feet tall and 25 feet long.
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Cowboy

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« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2007, 03:43:41 PM »
Somewhere in the recesses of my brain and through the fog, I see meks smashing through the Luir's walls and and....
I'd rather be lucky than good.

Troicha

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Animal sizes
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2007, 04:53:14 PM »
Quote from: "Eukelade"
Good question, Theebie.  Here's some numbers.

In the description of a gigantic, ruddy-brown mekillot, it says they are 25 cords long, and twice the height of a half giant.

A half giant is about 150 inches tall.

The walls of Luirs Outpost are the height of two half giants (around 300 inches tall).

An inix is taller than a half giant (around 220 inches tall).

A silt flyer is taller than an inix (around 240 inches tall).

The walls of Allanak are 50 cords tall (750 inches).

A scrab is smaller than all of these things (98 inches tall).


Actually, to put it in real life terms:

Quote from: "http://www.armageddon.org/general/misc.html"
Short distances are measured in inches (which bear a small resemblance to the English inch).


We'll have to assume that 'bear a small resemblance' means 'is equal to' for this to work. So keep in mind that these are inaccurate to an unknown, but not entirely useless, degree.

The average adult human height in the USA is 5'9"(five feet, nine inches), or 176cm for men, or 5'4"/163cm for women. The UK is a bit taller. (Men are a 1.5cm taller; women, .5cm)

Zalanthans are a little taller, the docs placing them between 5'8" and 6'6" (173-198cm)

A half-giant is between 10' and 12'6" (305cm-381cm). That's right, you stare them in the waist.

Dwaves are between 4'4" and 4'10" (132cm-147cm). Somewhere around wast-to-chest height.

Elven height range covers twice the area of human range. They are between 6'6" and 8' (191cm-245cm). Whenever they go to the roundear cities or outposts, they must feel like a tourist in Japan, excepting the politeness. The shortest adult elf is the same height as the tallest human.

Half-elves are between 5'10" and 6'10" (178cm-208cm), tending distinctly towards the human end of their parentage. It just goes to show that elves are a backwards, recessive peoples.

Information on gith is somewhat sparse, due to their habit of trying to kill scholarly explorers, but they are roughly 7' (213cm) tall, though it should be remembered that their natural posture is extremely hunched.

Halflings are the smallest of the widely known sentients on Zalanthas, coming in between 3' and 3'8" (91cm-112cm). It might be more accurate to call them "kneebiters", except that they like to start from up from the bottom.

The problems with measuring gith are further complicated with the mantis. The scant data which has survived such encounters puts them around 7' (216cm) tall. Interestingly enough, they are over half again as long! (as long as a half-giant is tall)

Quick note: For all sentients, the proportion of their height variance to their total median height is roughly the same. Very roughly.

Luir's walls are 25', or 7.6m tall.

An inix comes in at about 18'4" (or 5.6m) tall. Damn, that's a big lizard. A half-giant (or elf, if you can find one) on inix-back can see -over- the walls of Luir's Outpost, even when you assume riding low from the weight. (Eukelade, are you sure you didn't mean to say long? Just checking)

A silt flyer is taller than that, at a straight 20' (6.1m) in height.

A mekillot, finally, is one big mother of a lizard. As tall as Luir's walls (25'/7.6m, for those too lazy to look up), and a whopping 32' (9.5m) long. Probably easier to think of in yards - around 10 of those, or one tenth the length of an American football field. Just barely small enough to still consider lone travelers on foot as food.

Allanak's walls are 64' (19m), or about 21 yards, tall. An imposing scene in the desert, especially when you consider Tek's Tower is about twice as tall as -that-..


(As a side note, the ratio of a Zalanthan mile to an Imperial Mile is 1.25/1)

Zalanthan

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Animal sizes
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2007, 07:34:31 PM »
I didn't realize that Mantis are so long!  Thanks, Troicha!
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Only He Stands There

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Re: Animal sizes
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2007, 07:45:10 PM »
Quote from: "theebie"
Things like "a mekillot-drawn cart passes you on the caravan road" simply won't happen ? i doubt even that it would fit on a road at all ?


Bear in mind, also, that "Caravan Road" is not the size of your average highway. This is big enough for multiple argosies to pass one another regularly. I'd estimate it to be somewhere around the equivalent of a 16-lane interstate. It's a -huge- road -packed- with people, carts, wagons, and mounts.

manonfire

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Animal sizes
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2007, 07:52:57 PM »
So, let's extend the theory, if possible

How many miles is it from Red Storm to Tuluk?

Allanak to Cenyr?

Luir's to Tuluk?

The approximate length and width of the Salt Flats?



Troicha

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Animal sizes
« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2007, 08:18:03 PM »
Not possible, without more information on the size of outdoor rooms.

I could give you the slant height of the shadow cast by Luir's and Allanak at different times of day, though.

Eukelade

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Animal sizes
« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2007, 11:12:16 PM »
I pulled these numbers directly from the coded height of these animals, which are coded in inches.

Yes, inix are very big lizards.  You need to consider that inix need to be able to carry half giants. They're the only mount creature that a half giant can commonly ride.  These aren't shetland ponies.  Half giants are big.
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Pale Horse

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Animal sizes
« Reply #15 on: September 19, 2007, 11:45:27 PM »
If I recall right, it's pretty common for everyone to call the outdoor rooms "leagues".  According to the dictionary, a league is roughly 3 miles long.

So, all you need to do, now, is to take your character and go on a trip to Luir's, Red Storm, Tuluk, across the Salt Flats, etc.  and count the number of rooms...

Heh.  Might be an interesting character concept and/or goal.  "To create a map with accurate measurements of the distances of the notable features of the Known World".  Just imagine all the excitement of trekking across such vast and dangerous places!  Take note of the wildlife and it's peculiar habits of eating, hunting, mating and pack behaviors!

It's National Geographic for Zalanthas.
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Cale_Knight

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Animal sizes
« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2007, 12:02:43 AM »
Except that outdoor rooms clearly are not a standard size. "A super sekrit pool in the woods" is not the same sized room as "lost on the salt flats."
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Angela Christine

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Animal sizes
« Reply #17 on: September 20, 2007, 03:59:00 AM »
If inix are that big, how the heck are rangers taming wild ones?  They are friggin' huge and have a shell.  Do they even notice when some half-elf with maxed ride climbs up on their backs?

Yes, I have tamed a wild inix with a half-elven ranger . . . but I was never quite able to picture just how she did it.   :P
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Eukelade

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Animal sizes
« Reply #18 on: September 20, 2007, 05:12:21 AM »
Taming an animal doesn't have to involve simply jumping onto its back and magickally bonding to the thing.

You can do some roleplay before typing <mount creature> if you want.
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spawnloser

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Animal sizes
« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2007, 06:58:52 AM »
Sometimes a difficult situation, as some wild mounts are hostile until tamed.
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Troicha

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Animal sizes
« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2007, 09:08:58 AM »
Quote from: "Angela Christine"
If inix are that big, how the heck are rangers taming wild ones?  They are friggin' huge and have a shell.  Do they even notice when some half-elf with maxed ride climbs up on their backs?

Yes, I have tamed a wild inix with a half-elven ranger . . . but I was never quite able to picture just how she did it.   :P


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At least, that's the excuse I use.

Ghost

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Animal sizes
« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2007, 02:15:14 PM »
Everybody knows if you are riding an inix and you are no half giant

you should be wielding a club to remind the inix every once in a while that you are the boss
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Belenos

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Animal sizes
« Reply #22 on: September 20, 2007, 04:22:07 PM »
The inix whisperer.
This post is a natural hand-made product. The slight variations in spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and are in no way to be considered flaws or defects.

Ender

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Animal sizes
« Reply #23 on: September 20, 2007, 06:38:51 PM »
Also bear in mind that inix don't stand straight up.  They're more like crocodiles in their shape.  -very- long but only about six feet tall.  This picture has it standing up more than I've seen in other depictions of darksun inix.

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path

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Animal sizes
« Reply #24 on: September 20, 2007, 07:28:40 PM »
So how big is a sunback and, in addition, how big is my sunlon in comparison?

Troicha

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Animal sizes
« Reply #25 on: September 20, 2007, 11:44:51 PM »
Meks and inix in Arm are much, much larger. In addition, I -think- inix have six legs, but it has been a while.

Pale Horse

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Animal sizes
« Reply #26 on: September 21, 2007, 12:08:19 AM »
Nice pic, Ender, but judging from the dimensions shown, and what has already been posted about coded human/demihuman and animal hights, that Mek and Inix need to be roughly a third or so taller than what they look like.
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Fathi

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Animal sizes
« Reply #27 on: September 21, 2007, 03:39:33 AM »
Quote from: "Troicha"
Meks and inix in Arm are much, much larger. In addition, I -think- inix have six legs, but it has been a while.


Quote from: "Default ldesc of 'an inix'"
A huge, four legged, shell-backed lizard is here, nosing about for forage.


Possibly the fancier ones, but the plain ones are four-legged from everything I've seen.
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LauraMars

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Animal sizes
« Reply #28 on: September 21, 2007, 03:53:41 AM »
That inix in the picture seems like a pretty big lizard to me.  Look at the human on his back.  Seems like a little guy.  A half giant would come up to its chin probably, or its nose.

Maybe they're a little bigger, but I think that picture is a pretty good example of what stuff is looking like.
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Dalmeth

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Animal sizes
« Reply #29 on: September 21, 2007, 10:40:28 AM »
Actually, nothing in that picture is technically a lizard but more modeled after dinosaur bone structures.  Anyhow, the inix is definitely off in size.  I've seen inixes range from two to three times a human's height, and the one in the picture is hardly taller than a human at its shoulder.

Also, in regard to six-legged lizards, the only one I've ever heard of was the skeet, which probably isn't much bigger than a large dog.
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Cale_Knight

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« Reply #30 on: September 21, 2007, 04:55:03 PM »
In the picture above, just pretend that those humans are actually half-giants. Now picture a human who comes up to the HG's knee.

That's about the right size for everything.
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X-D

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Animal sizes
« Reply #31 on: September 21, 2007, 05:59:48 PM »
Also, by in game desc, a bahamet is "the size of a house"

And since it is like a giant  six (I think) legged snapping turtle, I take that to mean around 25-30 feet in all directions. Which would put it to well over ten times more massive then a half-giant.
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Nao

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« Reply #32 on: September 21, 2007, 08:16:37 PM »
Quote from: "X-D"
Also, by in game desc, a bahamet is "the size of a house"

And since it is like a giant  six (I think) legged snapping turtle, I take that to mean around 25-30 feet in all directions. Which would put it to well over ten times more massive then a half-giant.


Houses might be smaller than what you're imagining ;)
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LauraMars

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« Reply #33 on: September 21, 2007, 09:13:47 PM »
So if Inix are so huge, how are people getting off them and onto them so easily?

There must be like...leather straps and harnesses and ladders stuck all over them to facilitate the ascent of the little people.
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Angela Christine

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Animal sizes
« Reply #34 on: September 21, 2007, 09:20:35 PM »
Quote from: "LauraMars"
So if Inix are so huge, how are people getting off them and onto them so easily?

There must be like...leather straps and harnesses and ladders stuck all over them to facilitate the ascent of the little people.



Or maybe you start at the end of the tail and run up the spine to the saddle, eh?
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Gimfalisette

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Animal sizes
« Reply #35 on: September 21, 2007, 09:27:57 PM »
Quote from: "LauraMars"
So if Inix are so huge, how are people getting off them and onto them so easily?

There must be like...leather straps and harnesses and ladders stuck all over them to facilitate the ascent of the little people.


That is exactly why I wish the mount command took command emotes. Because currently, there's no way to flavor how you're getting up on that thing. Even a kank should be more than just what it is now.
I'm gonna go all Gimfalisette on you guys and lay down some numbers.

Fathi

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Animal sizes
« Reply #36 on: September 21, 2007, 09:35:09 PM »
Quote from: "LauraMars"
So if Inix are so huge, how are people getting off them and onto them so easily?

There must be like...leather straps and harnesses and ladders stuck all over them to facilitate the ascent of the little people.


One of my favourite scenes when I first started playing Arm was watching a particularly runty fellow try to strap things to his inix's saddle, then climb up onto it using his bags and chests as an ad-hoc ladder.

I didn't know about kudos back then, so... kudos to you, short fellow.
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Dalmeth

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Animal sizes
« Reply #37 on: September 22, 2007, 10:27:22 AM »
Quote from: "LauraMars"
So if Inix are so huge, how are people getting off them and onto them so easily?

There must be like...leather straps and harnesses and ladders stuck all over them to facilitate the ascent of the little people.


That's how I do it, among various other methods.  Considering the nature of my current character, I don't ever really portray him as being tied down to the back of the inix through whatever harness is in place.    The usual setup is the rope he uses to climb up the side of the inix is a sort of "stop rope."  If it gets pulled taught, the inix stops.  He secures himself by looping that rope in a loose coil about his arm, so that if he falls off, the inix stops.

I find it infinitely more fun than the usual, "hop on and ride," scenario.
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Elgiva

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Animal sizes
« Reply #38 on: September 22, 2007, 12:04:32 PM »
Quote from: "Nao"
Quote from: "X-D"
Also, by in game desc, a bahamet is "the size of a house"

And since it is like a giant  six (I think) legged snapping turtle, I take that to mean around 25-30 feet in all directions. Which would put it to well over ten times more massive then a half-giant.


Houses might be smaller than what you're imagining ;)


I'd think houses are bigger than halfgiants... at least.

Eukelade

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Animal sizes
« Reply #39 on: September 23, 2007, 02:47:03 AM »
Sunback lizard: 93 inches

Sunlon: 105 inches

Bahamet: 155 inches

Finding out the actual sizes of things you thought were bigger or smaller all your life? Priceless.
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Ghost

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Animal sizes
« Reply #40 on: September 23, 2007, 03:03:07 AM »
Quote from: "Eukelade"
Sunback lizard: 93 inches

Sunlon: 105 inches

Bahamet: 155 inches

Finding out the actual sizes of things you thought were bigger or smaller all your life? Priceless.


Why is it that I read this post and the first word that comes to mind is "penis"?
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manonfire

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« Reply #41 on: September 23, 2007, 11:42:13 AM »
In Soviet Turkey, inix ride YOU.



flurry

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Animal sizes
« Reply #42 on: September 23, 2007, 12:07:56 PM »
Quote from: "Pale Horse"
If I recall right, it's pretty common for everyone to call the outdoor rooms "leagues".  According to the dictionary, a league is roughly 3 miles long.


It is kind of common, but I think it's a mistake and it doesn't come from the documentation.  Outdoor rooms aren't standard sizes.  Even if they were, a square league would be way too big, especially when it comes to ranged combat and movement rates.  More clarity on this in a.2 would be really cool.
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Cale_Knight

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« Reply #43 on: September 23, 2007, 02:27:47 PM »
Folks call outdoor rooms leagues because we have to call them SOMETHING.

Unless they code it in 2.arm so that every single outdoors room everywhere is exactly the same size we will never be able to have "real" distances. So when folks say "league" they mean "room." And in the city they'll often say "block" when they mean "room."

That's really just one of the realities of playing in a MUD, and I don't think it's too big a deal.
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Coat of Arms

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« Reply #44 on: September 23, 2007, 07:32:50 PM »
I've heard "clicks" as a reference to rooms, too. I think that means a kilometer and I never liked its use on Armageddon.

When describing distance in-character I like to be creative. I've sometimes referred to one or two rooms as a "bowshot", three rooms as "eye's reach" and such. Or you can use landmarks, there's almost always something. Otherwise simply describe the exact location or path: "out of the gates and down to the bend, then head south until it branches off and pick the road that leads to Amosville".

If you have to use leagues, do it only for distances where it makes sense. Not "three leagues down that alley".

flurry

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Animal sizes
« Reply #45 on: September 24, 2007, 07:53:29 AM »
Quote from: "Cale_Knight"
Folks call outdoor rooms leagues because we have to call them SOMETHING.

Unless they code it in 2.arm so that every single outdoors room everywhere is exactly the same size we will never be able to have "real" distances. So when folks say "league" they mean "room." And in the city they'll often say "block" when they mean "room."

That's really just one of the realities of playing in a MUD, and I don't think it's too big a deal.


If you have to call them something, miles would make more sense, I think.  Both are units of Zalanthan measure, but leagues just seems way too big for outdoor rooms.   Miles is probably too big too, but at least that's smaller.

And as a side note, most (if not all) of the time you can get around calling them anything with landmarks or just being a little vague.
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