Author Topic: Templars and fear  (Read 14753 times)

Simple

  • Posts: 697
Templars and fear
« Reply #125 on: November 20, 2007, 11:25:09 PM »
Quote from: "Mood"

Real men (and women) do their drinking at the Gaj.


In Allanak, yes.
Carpe Diem - Fish of the day

Rindan

  • Posts: 2825
Templars and fear
« Reply #126 on: November 20, 2007, 11:26:05 PM »
I personally wouldn't spend too much time worrying and second guessing what Templars are doing.  There are never more then a few playing at once, and I imagine that they have staff eyes on them more than anyone else in the game.  I imagine the staff will do the right thing and dock their status accordingly with the largely NPC population of their cohorts.

As for what a commoner thinks of it, a Templar stepping into the tavern and looking around would likely be pretty common, especially in a blue robe who is directly managing militia.  I doubt it would raise any eyebrows and at worst cause people to do quick bows as they scoot around the Templar standing in the door.  

On the other hand, a Templar sitting down at the bar and pounding a few brews should probably cause minor distress among commoners for two reasons.  

First, Templars are scary.  It is nice to have a Templar to kill or collar the evil magikers, keep out the gith, and drive away the Tuluki barbarian hordes.  However, despite youru deep love and thankfulness for the Highlord's benevolence in providing Templars to save you from the horrible terrors of the wastes, Templars are still god damn scary.  Magik, even "good" magik is scary stuff.  Not only are they terrifying magik wielding avatars of your most benevolent and powerful God King, but they are Nobles on top of that.  That means that they are pretty much a different species with inhuman motives living in an inhuman powers and spending much of their time in the inhuman world of nobility.  Not many commoners can wrap their mind around what a Templar is and still have much thirst for drinking.  Templars are comforts from afar and terrors up close.

Second, despite their awesome and terrible power and glory, commoners do have certain expectations of their Templars and Nobles.  Commoners recognize these people as super human people with inhuman motives, but they still have expectations as to how these people act.  The most obvious thing that a commoner expects is for a Templar (or noble), a high and mighty creature, to remain high and mighty.  They don't need to be morally sound, incorruptible, or against snorting a line of spice.  They do need to show themselves to be the better of commoners at all times, or else shatter the expectations of commoners.

So, don't worry if you see a Templar or noble slumming it.  A staff member probably already knows and is applying the appropiate consequences.  That said, you as a commoner are still able to react.  You might not be in any position to make demands, but you can be disconcerted by a Templar who doesn't seem to be acting in line with your expectations of a Templar.  I suggest worrying about what you should do IC, and let the staff worry about the consequences for the Templar ICly.  Just because you don't see any consequences doesn't mean that there aren't any.

Riev

  • Posts: 5738
Re: Templars and fear
« Reply #127 on: February 08, 2010, 12:57:46 AM »
I wanted to pitch in about Tuluk here.
Tuluk, for all of its pleasantness, is in truth more brutal than Allanak.  Many Tulukis might not be aware of the fact, but they certainly do know that the vast majority of crimes in Tuluk are punished by death.  People in Tuluk disappear left in right and without any explanation.
Every single time a Tuluki is looking for someone and can't find them, they're probably going to wonder if that person was silently executed.  Haven't seen your lover for two days?  Well, maybe they're dead already.  People don't discuss people who vanished, and often they don't even know why they vanished in the first place.
To me, it's extremely similar to the Ministry of Love in Orwell's 1984, except they don't let you out before you're shot in the back of the head.

Living in a city like Tuluk is living in constant, maddening paranoia.  Some Tulukis might react to this by becoming excessively patriotic, deciding that the Templarate is absolute justice.  Other Tulukis, especially those that have actually interacted with a Templar on more than one occasion, will see that they can also be corrupt on occasion.

In other words, while some Tulukis might revere the Templars, they usually fear them more than they love them; what if that Jihaen saw you just when a bug flew into your mouth and you made a face?  If they took affront to that, you'll probably disappear tomorrow without being able to explain it was an honest mistake.  What if you had a weird hunch or made a lucky guess at some point and you're suspected for being a witch or a psionicist?  Bam, dead.  What if a good friend of yours turns out to be an abomination and you're wrongly suspected of having helped them?  Bam, dead.

In Allanak, you can get away with a whipping, or paying a bribe, or maybe losing an eye or a limb, or even being thrown into the Arena (where you can shout some parting words or explain yourself briefly before the animal is released, and maybe even win your freedom).  In Tuluk, punishment is generally either enslavement, a fine or execution.


Now, about templars:
In Tuluk, it's considered rude to bow to a regular Templar because it's too similar to how things used to be when Tuluk was under Allanaki occupation.  Bowing to a Tuluki templar is, in a way, comparing them to Allanaki templars, and they don't like that.
When a very important Templar comes along, you bow or kneel to them because it's the single biggest honor of your entire, pitiful life.

In Allanak, you bow to a regular Templar.  However, because Allanak has a huge amount of blue-robed templars patrolling the streets, standing at corners and going about their business, you can get away with only bowing to templars that notice you or you have business with.  Otherwise you'd have to bow at least twenty times whenever you wanted to go from the Bard's Barrel to the Dragon Temple to buy some water, and that's simply not practical.  This isn't to say that templars aren't frightening -- to most regular people in a city-state, a templar can do anything, purely by whim.  If a blue-robed templar goes to your Bynner Sergeant or your indie ranger and decides that you're a slave now, you're a slave.  If they want you dead, you die.
When a red-robed templar comes around, everything stops completely for a few minutes and everyone bows.  Some people might kneel.  This is because, for all practical purposes, a red-robed templar can do ANYTHING they want, no matter what, and suffer no consequences whatsoever.  A red-robed templar can walk up to a regular (non-senior) noble and decide to banish them from the city because they annoyed him.  Provided this noble wasn't incredibly important, and most of them aren't, nothing will happen to the red-robe as a result.

Now, a black-robed templar... a black-robed templar is an evil, omnipotent and omniscient demigod with a temper and, as far as anyone knows, enough power to kill all life in the Known World in two seconds flat.  When a black-robe arrives, everyone kneels and stays kneeling until that black-robe is well, well out of sight.  Because if that black-robe thinks, even for half a second, that you don't respect them quite enough, you'll die instantly.


Templars are plenty scary in Zalanthas.  The reason it's easy to forget this fact is that many things aren't OOCly allowed -- a PC templar can't walk around enslaving, maiming or throwing people into the Arena at random because players will complain about it, and this is ultimately a game designed to be fun for everyone.  What more people need to realize, perhaps, is that these restrictions don't actually exist in the game world, but are rather an OOC courtesy of sorts.  ICly, a templar is fully capable of taking you out of a tavern and brutally murder you simply because they didn't like the hat you were wearing.

I was going through the forum and read this, and was wondering on people's reaction to it in current time. Its been about two years, and perhaps its just the way I am but I don't fear Tuluki Templars like Larrath suggests, here.

Are things still like this? Do people still feel this way?
Masks are the Armageddon equivalent of Ed Hardy shirts.

Ampere

  • Posts: 1485
Re: Templars and fear
« Reply #128 on: February 08, 2010, 02:13:45 AM »
Templars are scary, because they're sponsored roles.  When I meet a character who's earned their essentially limitless political power from the ground up, I'm confident in the knowledge that they know to conduct business.  With templars you've no such luxury.  Don't get me wrong, I've met plenty of templars that were very well done.  However, more than any other class, templars give me the ooc heebie-jeebies.
Quote from: science
An early study by Plaut and Kohn-Speyer (1947)[11] found that horse smegma had a carcinogenic effect on mice. Heins et al.(1958)

musashi

  • Posts: 8982
    • My YouTube Channel
Re: Templars and fear
« Reply #129 on: February 08, 2010, 02:30:31 AM »
I think the post is about spot on. Allanak reminds me of Rome. Tuluk kind of reminds of me Stalin's Moscow. I wouldn't feel comfortable in either place  :-\
Quote from: i can haz mantis
Random Thought: Don't argue against Musasushi because.... really... you lose.
Quote from: brytta.leofa
Musashi, I hate it when you're right. ;)
Quote from: Nyr
I redacted the whole redacted.

Cutthroat

  • Helper
  • Posts: 4372
Re: Templars and fear
« Reply #130 on: February 08, 2010, 07:55:46 AM »
I was going through the forum and read this, and was wondering on people's reaction to it in current time. Its been about two years, and perhaps its just the way I am but I don't fear Tuluki Templars like Larrath suggests, here.

Are things still like this? Do people still feel this way?

Yes, it is still this way. The only thing I would disagree with in Larrath's post is that Tuluk isn't necessarily more brutal than Allanak; it is just equally brutal, but in a different way from Allanak.

That is, at least, what the documentation allows for. It takes many players that are willing to uphold that brutality in order for the setting to be successful, in both places.

Niamh

  • Legend
  • Posts: 758
Re: Templars and fear
« Reply #131 on: February 08, 2010, 08:53:18 AM »
Why should you fear Tuluki templars?  Think of them like the mafia.  Sure, they're nice to your face, but when you step out of line, they will make you/your family/your friends vanish without a trace, and you might not even see it coming.
Eastman: he came out of the east to do battle with The Amazing Rando!

netflix

  • Posts: 670
Re: Templars and fear
« Reply #132 on: February 08, 2010, 01:17:02 PM »
Bowing in Allanak...

From what I've always thought, especially trying to take environment into mind, is that with templars (blue robes, and lower ranked nobles as well) you only bow when you come to their direct attention. Could be they want to speak with you, could be you want to speak to them. Or could be they just give you enough of a look.

Gotta figure there are a lot of blue robes. And that Allanak is a -very- crowded city. Blue robes would be constantly on patrol. If people stopped to bow on the street, even those people who passed nearby, foot traffic would come to a complete stop. The main roads like Caravan and Meleths would be a solid traffic jam. Which in turn would make walking along a patrol more difficult for the blue robe.

Same thing for places like the Gaj. Jam packed, full of drunkards, fighters. There's probably blue robes popping in there all the time just to make sure there's not a knife fight in the making. It just seems, conjuring up a very busy, packed, slummy tavern in mind, that it'd be unrealistic that every few minutes the whole tavern would stop everything they're doing to bow to a blue robe.

And places like Traders, that have several nobles and templars in them at any given time (always the virtuals), I gotta imagine that they're there looking for quiet, peaceful conversation. And that having a continual line of commoners bowing to everyone in the room would be considered disruptive, undesirable.
Squinting at the such-and-such dwarf, the so-and-so woman asks, in sirihish:
     "You put jam in your peenee hole to keep from making baby juice?"

path

  • Posts: 1488
    • they fight crime
Re: Templars and fear
« Reply #133 on: February 08, 2010, 01:43:15 PM »
Once upon a time whenever a robe entered in the south everyone would jump up from their seats and bow. Arguments arose on the GDB. Spam, said some, Other's claimed they didn't have eyes in the back of their heads. The opposition argued, with guards, such an entrance would be noticed. Then emote VNPCs noticing, many cried!

A change began to occur. Some people remained sitting when Templars entered. Some were called out, punished, tortured. Maybe killed. However, over time, this idea gained popularity. In current years, one usually bows when addressed or brought more directly into contact with a robe or noble. Some more careful souls might chose to bow when passing in the streets or to notice when they enter an establishment, but this is no longer a majority opinion and is usually looked at as asking for attention or trying to garner favorable notice.

I would add, should a Red Robe enter, most people would be swift in paying their respects.
Do you kill your sparring partners once they are useless to you, so that you are king?

Gimfalisette

  • Posts: 8314
Re: Templars and fear
« Reply #134 on: February 08, 2010, 01:49:48 PM »
What path said.

Having played various authority figures of various ranks in various locations to whom respects of various kinds might be paid, I much prefer that PCs not insta-bow or insta-nod or insta-salute or insta-anything. If I walk over to you or address you (or if you're approaching me or talking to me), yeah, throw down some respect. If I just look at you, feel free to notice it or not and do what your PC would do, whatever that may be. Otherwise, let's just both be about our business.

That said, however, do please make sure if you're respectin' that you're getting it right. (Unless you're OOCly doin' it wrong on purpose, which is fine.) Do not nod in the south; do not bow in the north; do not address a blue robe or a noble as "Great Lord/Lady"; do not bow/nod to someone who is not a noble/templar. Because when you get it wrong, then, nobles/templars/authorities have to do something about the error.
I'm gonna go all Gimfalisette on you guys and lay down some numbers.

Cavaticus

  • Posts: 966
Re: Templars and fear
« Reply #135 on: February 08, 2010, 02:07:17 PM »
Do we as staff expect the insta-bow? No, we do not. And we do not encourage templars to expect it either.

Is a templar well within his rights to cut through a crowded room and bitch out your character for not bowing? Absolutely, in the sense that he's allowed to bitch your character out for anything his corrupt little mind can think of.