Author Topic: How to Roleplay an unaffiliated Half-Giant  (Read 2605 times)

Half-Giant Newbie

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How to Roleplay an unaffiliated Half-Giant
« on: April 03, 2003, 04:25:45 AM »
I tend to avoid roleplaying Half-Giant's because to me it seems like a daunting task. But I've decided to try again, so here are some questions I have:

1. Where do all of these unaffiliated Half-Giants come from? Is there some sort of secret factory I don't know about?

2. What sort of childhood would your typical unaffiliated Half-Giant have (e.g. How would an unaffiliated Half-Giant be raised? They tend to eat a lot so would anyone outside of a House be able to afford it?)

3. What are some good things for an unaffiliated Half-Giant to do upon the first few hours of entering the game? This is a problem all characters have but it's easier to solve with others, as they often have ambitions. Something (IMO) most Half-Giants would lack. Once a Half-Giant has been around for a bit longer it's easier to come up with things to do as they'll often have role models.

Feel free for anyone to answer, but I was mainly looking for an Imm-response.

Hoodwink

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How to Roleplay an unaffiliated Half-Giant
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2003, 07:42:44 AM »
OK I'm not an imm but you said feel free for anyone to answer  8)

I think unaffiliated half-giants would be rare.  This would assume that someone other than a half-giant raised them (for surely a half-giant cannot raise children, or else they would have their own culture) and then at some point they were abandoned or left and thus are unaffiliated.  

I know this has been discussed before and there are many disagreements on the issue, but I don't see how a mother half-giant could raise a child unless she were assisted along the way -- which sort of means she didn't really raise the child anyways.  Though a mother squirrel may not be very smart compared to humans, they are able to raise children no problem.  However, I envision a half-giant's stupidity to go beyond this.  To use a real world example, a retarded human could not raise a child, and I think half-giant parents fall into the same caliber of intellect.  

Furthermore, I don't imagine all of Allanak's half-giant soldiers to of simply left home one day and applied for a position in the militia.  Half-giants have a tendancy to be drifters, I think, and their short attention spans make them prone to wandering.  Are the half-giant soldiers getting bored and quitting their jobs on a regular basis?  I doubt it.  For them to of been raised into their position seems to make more sense to me.

So if you agree with everything I've said so far (and feel free not to  :wink:  ) then it stands to reason that an unaffiliated half-giant would indeed be a rare thing.  Half-giants are seldom found in the poor communities of the world, if for no other reason than they are an expense.  Who then would simply foster an orphan half-giant and then let them go wander freely when (s)he's all grown up?  Certainly there would be instances of the half-giant's "foster" parent to of vanished or died, etc.  But by and large I believe most half-giants would have ties to something.  It doesn't have to be a clan, it could simply be a virtual background, but this notion of wandering, free half-giants, to me, doesn't make much sense; nor does it sound like such a role would be contributing to the game world much.

Though I recognise there could be a very sound argument against this that I haven't thought of.

X-D

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How to Roleplay an unaffiliated Half-Giant
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2003, 09:31:54 AM »
I remember more then one string on this on the old GDB, but I seem to remember, and it may have been one of the staff who posted it, that half-giants, being not sterile can and did raise own families then the string did of course branch off to the how could they be smart enough, that was answered too I'm pretty sure, Basicly, if it is possible for a half-giant to take care of himself then 2 of them should be able to figure out how to feed that pony sized baby, maybe dust it off now and again, course I could see a female halfgiant never putting it down till it was just to big to carry.
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Anonymous

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How to Roleplay an unaffiliated Half-Giant
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2003, 11:19:23 AM »
Not to derail the topic, but I would add in that I think a half-giant could very well raise a child just as a gorilla can do so.

Maybe I have the wrong idea of half-giants, but I've always understood them to be able to learn a lot of things out of either mocking what someone else has taught them or by simple reinforced behaviour.

Its the abstract logic of why they are doing these things that are beyond them.

Take half-giant militia soldiers.  They seem pretty smart.  They don't stand around drooling while I cast a spell or try to subdue a noble, and they know their way to the templar's quarters.

Heck, one of them even watches the jail cells.

They may not know that they are dragging that pickpocketing elf back to the jail cells because they are part of a criminal system working to punish and deter crime, they just know that when personA does X, Y or Z, they drag them to jail or kill them so that they will be praised by TemplarB.

Same with a baby.  They may not know that the baby is hungry or thirsty, but they would, IMHO, figure out that when the baby cried they could make it stop by jamming food or water into its mouth.  I don't think its a stretch to say they would try this either, since its something they would do for themselves.

In short, I think there are a lot of Half-giants capable of performing what would seem like relatively complex tasks, but in reality they are just performing a series of motions that they have been taught or have learned to do in expectation of an outcome.  Zalanthas' answer to Pavlov.

I do, think, that there would be few, if any, HGs capable of deduction, reasoning or considering an action different than what they have been trained to do.  Until they are trained otherwise...

Getting back to one of the original questions....

As far as what a half-giant would do upon entering the game, I think that the answer is to seek social interaction and food, not necessarily in that order.  Its a big, complex and daunting world to a half-giant, in my mind.  Those littler people seem to know what is going on, so a half-giant would probably look to them for direction.

Master Z

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How to Roleplay an unaffiliated Half-Giant
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2003, 11:48:16 AM »
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1. Where do all of these unaffiliated Half-Giants come from? Is there some sort of secret factory I don't know about?


I don't think its a stretch to say they can have families even with homes. It's an entire race, and I doubt the entire race lives in your local militia barracks and such. Generally you don't hear about this kind of thing, but I think its safe to assume a half-giant could have come from a family.

About half-giants being incapable of raising children on their own... I doubt it. I think their stupidity is kind of overstated lately. I believe (and I think this is in the documentation as well) that they are more like stupid normal people than mentally challenged people. As such, they would be able to raise offspring, though they'd make plenty of mistakes in the process I'm sure. Have you ever met someone in real life and said "Damn, that fellow is so dumb, how could he have kids?" Thats what I think of.

Just a quick quote from the docs for your consideration:

Quote from: "HG Docs"
...a half-giant is not like a child or a primitive humanoid, but rather, simply a very stupid person, although this is a much more subtle concept.


Read more here: http://www.armageddon.org/rp/racial/halfgiantsocial.html

Quote
2. What sort of childhood would your typical unaffiliated Half-Giant have (e.g. How would an unaffiliated Half-Giant be raised? They tend to eat a lot so would anyone outside of a House be able to afford it?)


I suppose they eat a lot, but one working as a guard or something would probably get decent pay (one may not shrewd enough to ask for extra this pay, but if they need it to live it'll get worked out). If a half-giant was a hunter, they'd be more apt to take down big game and thusly get a better food payoff from it. I think  their physical strengths may outweight their extra financial need, so professions that keep this in mind would make sense. So you can assume your half giant has been employed (if only with minor jobs) from a young age, and was provided for by whomever as a youth.

Quote
3. What are some good things for an unaffiliated Half-Giant to do upon the first few hours of entering the game? This is a problem all characters have but it's easier to solve with others, as they often have ambitions. Something (IMO) most Half-Giants would lack. Once a Half-Giant has been around for a bit longer it's easier to come up with things to do as they'll often have role models.


I think the most importat thing to keep in mind is that the first few hours in game are not the first few hours of a character's life. Think about what they've been doing until you suddenly had the privalege of controlling them, and try to think of how you can logically continue from there. Besides this though, if you want to assume that you've had certain things for a long time (like armour and weapons) and havn't just been dressed as a peasant for years, you probably should get your shopping done and assume its an OOC time to get hooked up with what you would've had all along.
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Quirk

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Raising children
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2003, 11:49:05 AM »
Come to the point, I think a "retarded" human *could* probably raise a child - the quality of care might be considered substandard by humans round them, and the child might suffer a little from the lower quality of early education, but as far as keeping the child alive goes, a "retarded" human capable of keeping themselves alive could probably provide for a child too. The reason that they don't get the chance for the most part is that those round them usually feel the child should be cared for better than the mentally deficient parent can manage.

Perhaps the problem would be solved if we stopped thinking of half-giants as big, stupid humans and started considering them as huge super-intelligent gorillas? They're pretty smart as animals go. With their size and strength, they've got a lot more going for them than any ape-men from the Earth's history, too.

Quirk
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Hoodwink

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How to Roleplay an unaffiliated Half-Giant
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2003, 02:58:14 PM »
Quote
Not to derail the topic, but I would add in that I think a half-giant could very well raise a child just as a gorilla can do so.


A gorrilla isn't mentally deficient.  And raising a human child well enough to keep it alive involves a great deal more than tossing it some food now and again.  Give it a try some time.

This is however my opinion.  As far as I know there aren't any specifications one way or the other if half-giants can raise children themselves or not, which seems to imply that they can.  I'm only saying that whether it's acceptable or not, I personally don't find it realistic.

I think if half-giants were generally capable of raising children themselves then there would be half-giant communities, perhaps even with their own languages and such (like Dark Sun half-giants).  In which case the help file on the race wouldn't say: Half-giants have no culture to speak of.

Angela Christine

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How to Roleplay an unaffiliated Half-Giant
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2003, 03:50:16 PM »
http://www.northbay.com/entertainment/mann/09mann_q11.html

Seriously retarded people (IQs in the mid 60s) can and do raise children, even normal children.  It is tiring work but not really all that complex, which is why there are so many 12 year old baby sitters.

I think the reason why we don't have half-giant communities are 2-fold.  First, HGs don't seem to have much in the way of ambition or leadership ability.  It just won't occur to most HGs to gather up a group of other HGs and go start a village.  They look to others for guidance, and other races have nothing to gain by starting a half-giant village.  Second, even if a half-giant village did exist they would be prone to wandering off with smooth talking outsiders, and would be vulnerable to slavers.  HGs aren't great stratagists, they could put a wall around their village, but they wouldn't stand a chance against a trained officer leading a drilled army.  Despite their size, they need the protection of lawful areas or concerned leaders.

Most HGs are soldiers, and most of those are probably recruited from a young age or born into their organizaton, so they can get appropriate training and conditioning.  But there are undoubtably many HGs in the unskilled and semi-skilled labour pool as well.  I bet they make fantastic lumberjacks and gatherers.  They would be living in mixed communities, but it is entirely plausible to me that there could be free HG families.  Sure, they might need to consult the local wise women and midwifes more than a human family, but with a little guidance they are capable of living independantly.

The are dumb, but they aren't vegetables.

AC
Treat the other man's faith gently; it is all he has to believe with."     Henry S. Haskins

Anonymous

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How to Roleplay an unaffiliated Half-Giant
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2003, 03:53:17 PM »
Quote from: "Hoodwink"
Quote
Not to derail the topic, but I would add in that I think a half-giant could very well raise a child just as a gorilla can do so.


A gorrilla isn't mentally deficient.  And raising a human child well enough to keep it alive involves a great deal more than tossing it some food now and again.  Give it a try some time.


I have two children of my own and as the eldest of four children did quite a bit of babysitting even before I had my own.  Regardless, what's your point?  We aren't talking about human children here, though I would argue that the existance of our race would indicate that our neandrathal and cromagnun(sp?) cousins did well enough raising their kids.

Other than food and water the only other thing a child needs is supervision.  The instinctual bonds almost all mammalian parents share with their children coupled with a half-giant child's hardiness would, in my mind, make a half-giant parent more than able to supervise it to the extent it required.

Quote
I think if half-giants were generally capable of raising children themselves then there would be half-giant communities, perhaps even with their own languages and such (like Dark Sun half-giants).  In which case the help file on the race wouldn't say: Half-giants have no culture to speak of.


See, I look at it a different way.  There aren't half-giant cultures or communities not because of their inability to care for a child enough to keep it alive, but that the half-giant mindset isn't one that lends itself to reproduction.

So, to me the question isn't 'would a half-giant be able to care for a child' the question is would a half-giant male initiate sex with a half-giant female and would she receive that advance without human slavers or overseers encouraging it.

But, like I said from the beginning, maybe i have the wrong view of the species.

Angela Christine

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How to Roleplay an unaffiliated Half-Giant
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2003, 04:04:05 PM »
I think HGs are more like Forrest Gump than Elmo.  They go along with other people easily, but they aren't completely helpless.

AC
Treat the other man's faith gently; it is all he has to believe with."     Henry S. Haskins

John

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How to Roleplay an unaffiliated Half-Giant
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2003, 05:47:25 PM »
Quote from: "CRW"
The instinctual bonds almost all mammalian parents share with their children coupled with a half-giant child's hardiness would, in my mind, make a half-giant parent more than able to supervise it to the extent it required.
I agree that Half-Giants could look after a child, but not because of any instinctual bonds. Half-Giants imitate others. The docs say they're very good at picking up social cues. However the docs also say that they aren't capable of true kindness, so therefore I think they wouldn't be capable of "love" or a REAL bond between mother and child. However that wouldn't stop either mother or child from acting like they care for each other a lot, because they'd look at how other parents act and mimic them.

Quote from: "CRW"
So, to me the question isn't 'would a half-giant be able to care for a child' the question is would a half-giant male initiate sex with a half-giant female and would she receive that advance without human slavers or overseers encouraging it.
To me the answer goes back to the mimicing and observant nature of Half-Giants. They see others making advances so they'd probably do it themselves, copying word for word what they see other people saying. At first they might even try to hit on members of other species :P

creeper386

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How to Roleplay an unaffiliated Half-Giant
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2003, 06:35:29 PM »
See... I think this whole problem stems from saying half giants are really stupid. People tend to think they are more of a retarded human or something like that. Which isn't the case. I don't think there any stupider then a really stupid but still mentally healthy person. I think they have the same minimun intelligents for the most part but don't get as smart.

Also, their lack of intelligents probably is also helped by their lack of any, "me" thoughts. They don't think of how things effect them. They also lack any "others" thoughts. They might know if they hit this person on the head they fall down, but they may not know that it acctually does anything else. They know nothing of consequences, and have no knowledge of abstract or advanced forms of thinking.

They are more simple then stupid in my mind. How they're mind works prevents them from learning to much because it works on basic levels of I do this, this happens. Thats it. I think they work of a basic cause and effect system. With some molding they could and do perform complicated things, but they wouldn't do that without outside help.

As to rather they are able to raise children... I think so. If they aren't mentally deprived, just very basic thought patterns, there isn't any reason why they can't have some instincts, or motherly behavior. Now, I've never read that they can't have true kindness, that they are just copying others... But for the most part, isn't that how humans are? We learn how to react kindly to people from watching others, like-wise we learn how to be mad and such from watching others for the most part. Does that mean we are incapable of sharing kindness or love? No, that just means the way we SHOW that kindness and love was learned.

Creeper, who last time he brought up the half giants aren't stupid arguement didn't think of the simple route.
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John

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How to Roleplay an unaffiliated Half-Giant
« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2003, 06:56:37 PM »
Quote from: "creeper386"
I've never read that they can't have true kindness, that they are just copying others... But for the most part, isn't that how humans are? We learn how to react kindly to people from watching others, like-wise we learn how to be mad and such from watching others for the most part. Does that mean we are incapable of sharing kindness or love? No, that just means the way we SHOW that kindness and love was learned.

Quote from: "[url=http://www.armageddon.org/rp/racial/halfgiantsocial.html
The Half-Giant Social Plight[/url]"]Comparatively, kindness typically describes some kind of genuine concern for the well-being of others, and an understanding of a moral dimension to your actions. As you can imagine, these are not concepts which are at home in the thoughts of a half-giant. However, a half-giant is similarly incapable of harboring true malice.
I take that to mean that a Half-Giant isn't capable of feeling love or strong kindness. They might APPEAR to feel love, but for the most part they're just mimicing how others around them act.

You give a gift to a Half-Giant and they'll react depending on how they're told to react and how those around them react. So if they're told a gift is good and they should be happy, they'll act how they see people being happy act. If they're told getting beat up every day is good, they'll act happy. According to the docs, they aren't capable of harbouring malice, therefore I take that to mean they can only have REALLY minimal and simple feelings.

To a degree, I don't think it's an issue of them having feelings, but them pretending to have feelings.

John

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How to Roleplay an unaffiliated Half-Giant
« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2003, 07:11:16 PM »
Well me and creeper have been having an argument and neither of us can come to an agreement so I thought I'd ask here.

How easy would it be to re-condition a HG?

Creeper says it would be difficult with some things because they've been raised to believe a certain thing all their life (e.g. pain = bad). I say it'd be fairly easy due to the fact HGs are stupid and prone to switching loyalties at the drop of the hat.

Sakra

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How to Roleplay an unaffiliated Half-Giant
« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2003, 07:42:25 PM »
All these are good points. But due to the lack of female Half-Giants :cry: , the point is moot.   :wink:
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Delirium

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How to Roleplay an unaffiliated Half-Giant
« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2003, 08:02:44 PM »
I don't think there's actually a lack of female HGs.. I think there's just a lack of PC ones.
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John

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How to Roleplay an unaffiliated Half-Giant
« Reply #16 on: April 03, 2003, 08:07:26 PM »
There also isn't a lack of female soldiers. Quite a few are female actually. Everyone just assumed their male :P