Author Topic: Dead Horse? Think again, sillies.  (Read 19326 times)

jhunter

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Dead Horse? Think again, sillies.
« Reply #125 on: August 02, 2007, 11:01:03 AM »
Quote from: "Doppelganger"
Quote from: "jhunter"
If you guys are -really- seeing this much magicker activity, then why -aren't- any groups dedicated to the eradication of the magicker outbreak, popping up?


Because you are the only one bright enough to consider magick's power and ability to quickly regenerate its members anywhere close to d-elven. Why there are not any groups dedicated to eradication of silt horrors? Because its impossible, they respawn faster than you could possibly kill them, that's if you can kill them at all.

Active struggle against magick is not only just as lame as open love towards them, it also way to quick suicide. I don't understand how you blame people for avoiding one part of mundane guidelines, yet wonder why people don't go breaking other.


The staff have said in the past that -if- people were going to hunt down and destroy magickers it would be realistic if they were doing such in -groups-.  It has been said it's acceptable if done realistically so it's not lame. because it's not breaking any guidelines. You know what -is- lame though is using the numbers of magickers as an excuse not to rp dealing with magick as it was laid out and constantly whining about it OOCly instead of doing something about it in character.
This is just as lame as people constantly whining about overhunting as an OOC issue, when it's an IC issue that should be dealt with in character.

Quote
Because you are the only one bright enough to consider magick's power and ability to quickly regenerate its members anywhere close to d-elven.


Knock off the flaming. And quit being a pansy and using multiple accounts to flame people.

Tarx

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Dead Horse? Think again, sillies.
« Reply #126 on: August 02, 2007, 11:17:53 AM »
Quote
The staff have said in the past that -if- people were going to hunt down and destroy magickers it would be realistic if they were doing such in -groups-. It has been said it's acceptable if done realistically so it's not lame. because it's not breaking any guidelines. You know what -is- lame though is using the numbers of magickers as an excuse not to rp dealing with magick as it was laid out and constantly whining about it OOCly instead of doing something about it in character.


Yeah, I've pointed this out a few times--I agree with you, jhunter.  Got a problem with something?  Try to pursue an end to fix it intelligently.  I've done that a few times with a few problems ICly with various characters.

Quote

This is just as lame as people constantly whining about overhunting as an OOC issue, when it's an IC issue that should be dealt with in character.

And it is supposed to be dealt with in-character.  Yep!
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Malken

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Dead Horse? Think again, sillies.
« Reply #127 on: August 02, 2007, 11:35:52 AM »
Still a shame I can't ICly slay the special application process.  :D

I still wish for some sort of totally mundane class that could 'sense' magick being used and could 'track' its source or where it comes from.

A class that could hunt magickers without the help of any other magickers would be nice, like, say, that Inquisitor example that was given a few months ago.. Except make it just as available as a warrior or a ranger.

The more trained the class would be, the wider area of effect his 'sensing' would be, you could then hire such person to go and patrol the 'hot spots' and determine where the rogue magickers are coming from and track them to their lair.

Instead of just patrolling the same area over and over hoping to catch someone because you know from past OOC experience that plenty of magickers are using this cave or that hole as a lair.
“When I was a fighting man, the kettle-drums they beat;
The people scattered gold-dust before my horse’s feet;
But now I am a great king, the people hound my track
With poison in my wine-cup, and daggers at my back.”

Greve

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Dead Horse? Think again, sillies.
« Reply #128 on: August 02, 2007, 11:47:48 AM »
If magickers are becoming more visible and a greater threat/nuisance to the inhabitants of Zalanthas, it should be dealt with IC.

If too many players (and/or the wrong players) are allowed to play magickers due to a surprisingly generous attitude in the karma or special app department, that should be dealt with OOC.

One doesn't rule out the other.

jhunter

  • Posts: 6103
Dead Horse? Think again, sillies.
« Reply #129 on: August 02, 2007, 12:53:06 PM »
Quote from: "Greve"
If magickers are becoming more visible and a greater threat/nuisance to the inhabitants of Zalanthas, it should be dealt with IC.

If too many players (and/or the wrong players) are allowed to play magickers due to a surprisingly generous attitude in the karma or special app department, that should be dealt with OOC.

One doesn't rule out the other.


The staff have stated that the numbers are in line and it's the way it is currently supposed to be. That makes it purely an IC issue.

Doppelganger

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Dead Horse? Think again, sillies.
« Reply #130 on: August 02, 2007, 02:02:53 PM »
Quote from: "jhunter"
The staff have said in the past that -if- people were going to hunt down and destroy magickers it would be realistic if they were doing such in -groups-.  It has been said it's acceptable if done realistically so it's not lame. because it's not breaking any guidelines. You know what -is- lame though is using the numbers of magickers as an excuse not to rp dealing with magick as it was laid out and constantly whining about it OOCly instead of doing something about it in character.
This is just as lame as people constantly whining about overhunting as an OOC issue, when it's an IC issue that should be dealt with in character.


Writing in background that your braindamaged character wants to get pregnant from any sorc and psion he sees is not breaking any guidelines either, but it's still lame.

But staff is like a bottomless barrel of wisdom indeed. What else did they say? That displacing Tek should be done in groups? That irrigation of Red Desert should be done in groups? I could have never guessed it myself.

New magick code and 9 applicants for a single bender position are not result of IC effort, so why the hell it should be toned down by IC means only. But I see that difference between IC and OOC events is too complicated for you, so if Malken and Greve did not help you draw a line between the two, I have nothing to add.

Quote from: "jhunter"
Knock off the flaming. And quit being a pansy and using multiple accounts to flame people.


Okay, so you are not bright then? Or your tale about genocide against delves was derailment and had nothing to do with discussion?

I was happy posting anonymously when I had a choice, otherwise this is the only GDB account I use on open forums for the last 19 months. If you can imagine Universe for a moment and then understand your place in it, then you would realise that I have zero reasons to keep different accounts to say something to you or about you.

Angela Christine

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Dead Horse? Think again, sillies.
« Reply #131 on: August 02, 2007, 02:22:32 PM »
Quote from: "Doppelganger"
Quote from: "jhunter"
If you guys are -really- seeing this much magicker activity, then why -aren't- any groups dedicated to the eradication of the magicker outbreak, popping up?


Because you are the only one bright enough to consider magick's power and ability to quickly regenerate its members anywhere close to d-elven. Why there are not any groups dedicated to eradication of silt horrors? Because its impossible, they respawn faster than you could possibly kill them, that's if you can kill them at all.

Active struggle against magick is not only just as lame as open love towards them, it also way to quick suicide. I don't understand how you blame people for avoiding one part of mundane guidelines, yet wonder why people don't go breaking other.



Get the magickers to do it.  Fight fire with fire . . . or even better, with Nilazi.  That gives the non-rogue magickers something to do, which keeps them from getting bored and turning rogue.  It is a game, people will do whatever seems like the most fun.
Treat the other man's faith gently; it is all he has to believe with."     Henry S. Haskins

Doppelganger

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Dead Horse? Think again, sillies.
« Reply #132 on: August 02, 2007, 02:27:49 PM »
I am fine the way I am, AC, thanks for care.

Doppelganger

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Dead Horse? Think again, sillies.
« Reply #133 on: August 02, 2007, 02:51:24 PM »
For the record, if one day all magick will die and stellar roleplayers will throw away components and robes, roll up half-giants and will start bashing the shit out of magickers that remain, it won't make me happy.

Can't you believe, it's quite possible to defend point of view for the sake of it, not for the better of current or future characters. I, for one, can afford it.

Malken

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Dead Horse? Think again, sillies.
« Reply #134 on: August 02, 2007, 02:57:04 PM »
I'm really trying to find ways for the two sides to come together, help me out, people... Some mundanes with the ability to 'sense' magick would do a lot, for us who wants to keep with other mundanes, no?

I don't know why we should have to join up with other magickers if we want to hunt down rogue magickers, it goes against the docs that they should be avoided and feared as much as possible.. No offense to the gemmed ones, but tough luck if you start getting lonely because of it.. And if it makes life more difficult than it already is for the rogue ones, well, shouldn't it be that way to begin with?

The races are already well developed mentally, with all of their basic psi abilities, I don't see how a 'class' that is expert in detecting magical 'waves' throughout the world would so far fetched, at this point..
“When I was a fighting man, the kettle-drums they beat;
The people scattered gold-dust before my horse’s feet;
But now I am a great king, the people hound my track
With poison in my wine-cup, and daggers at my back.”

Yokunama

  • Posts: 1894
Dead Horse? Think again, sillies.
« Reply #135 on: August 02, 2007, 03:32:19 PM »
Quote from: "Malken"
I'm really trying to find ways for the two sides to come together, help me out, people... Some mundanes with the ability to 'sense' magick would do a lot, for us who wants to keep with other mundanes, no?


Some elementalist leave some sort of traces or have other things that you can pick up with mundane means.

Code: [Select]
>drop pants
 You do not have that item.

ale six

  • Posts: 1278
Dead Horse? Think again, sillies.
« Reply #136 on: August 02, 2007, 03:38:06 PM »
Quote from: "jhunter"
Quote from: "Greve"
If magickers are becoming more visible and a greater threat/nuisance to the inhabitants of Zalanthas, it should be dealt with IC.

If too many players (and/or the wrong players) are allowed to play magickers due to a surprisingly generous attitude in the karma or special app department, that should be dealt with OOC.

One doesn't rule out the other.


The staff have stated that the numbers are in line and it's the way it is currently supposed to be. That makes it purely an IC issue.


Can you post a link to this statement?

I personally completely agree with Greve.

spawnloser

  • Posts: 7313
Dead Horse? Think again, sillies.
« Reply #137 on: August 02, 2007, 04:04:59 PM »
Malken, you don't want us to come together... you want us to come to your side.  By making it so that someone can detect or track magick, you are elevating them to the realm of non-mundane... there are already non-mundane people that can track magick.  I will say no more.

There are already mundane means of identifying magickers.  There are both ways to be certain that someone is a magicker and there are ways that your guess will be quite likely.  Learn them.
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A magicker is kind of like a mousetrap, the fear is the cheese. But this cheese has an AK47.

flurry

  • Posts: 3366
Dead Horse? Think again, sillies.
« Reply #138 on: August 02, 2007, 04:22:35 PM »
Quote from: "ale six"
Quote from: "jhunter"

The staff have stated that the numbers are in line and it's the way it is currently supposed to be. That makes it purely an IC issue.


Can you post a link to this statement?


This pretty much says that.

Quote from: "Adhira"
However, the staff do not consider that the game is 'broken' or out of sync. Hopefully there are enough places, people, rp and stories going on out there that most folks can find something to amuse and entertain themselves and their characters with, whatever their preferences.
"No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality; even larks and katydids are supposed, by some, to dream." - Shirley Jackson, The Haunting of Hill House

ale six

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Dead Horse? Think again, sillies.
« Reply #139 on: August 02, 2007, 04:27:23 PM »
Thanks.

naatok

  • Posts: 260
Dead Horse? Think again, sillies.
« Reply #140 on: August 02, 2007, 04:27:45 PM »
I hope I didn't leave the impression that I thought over-abundance of overt rogue powers in the game-world was strictly a problem mundane characters (meaning not magickally inclined rather than boring.  There's nothing boring about non-magickers, imho) should be responsible for dealing with.
 
As roleplayers we should ALL be mindful of our in-game words and actions in relationship to the storyline and IC world.
 
Sorcerers and mind-benders should EXPECT to be hunted by the vast majority of persons (even other sorcerers and mind-benders).  This understanding should be a -general- guiding factor for a player of these guild-types.  They may not like it...or think the hatred and fear is justified, but they should EXPECT it as a matter of course.
 
There are also IC factors that may lead such persons to reach out to others in interaction.  Such an attempt at interaction may fit perfectly with the background/personality of the renegade, and the situation.  It should depend entirely on IC considerations all around, regardless of the guild-type played.
 
Just because someone practices sorcery or has the ability to influence the mind's of others in frightening ways, does not mean that they are automatically malevolent people.  It just means they should expect the world (meaning other intelligent humanoids) to TREAT them as malevolent.
 
Now, I'm not saying that characters of these guild types should or would ALWAYS avoid others.  Nor am I saying that when a mundane or elementalist encounters one of these rogues they should or would scream, "Die, die, die!!!" and attack.
 
A person who is wholly fearful of magick and who has the mind set of "Kill all the evil, ash-bringing sons of demon-whore bastards!" may NOT attack one if they met them.  The interest of self-preservation or just mind-numbing terror...or perhaps some circumstance in the meeting....might drive them to stay their hand.
 
All I'm saying is that if some wizard or mind-bender is so well-known as being one that several (apparently dozens if I'm reading some of these posts right) people from different parts of the known world know who and what he is and what he looks like and when his birthday is and all the little goodies of social interaction....SOEMEONE....SOMEWHERE should be at least thinking about hunting the bastard down with the thought in mind of "One less evil magicker/mind-witch in the world."

We need more Zalanthans like this guy from Young Frankenstein:
 
"A riiioot...iss a ferrrry uuuugly ting......An' eet's about damned time ve had une!!"  "Let's go keel die Fraankunschtein creeeature!"
-Naatok the Naughty Monkey

My state of mind an inferno. This mind, which cannot comprehend. A torment to my conscience,
my objectives lost in frozen shades. Engraved, the scars of time, yet never healed.  But still, the spark of hope does never rest.

flurry

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Dead Horse? Think again, sillies.
« Reply #141 on: August 02, 2007, 04:47:04 PM »
Just a few random thoughts hitting on various points...

Personally, I think people are a little too focussed on the numbers.  To my knowledge, the PC population has never been supposed to be an accurate demographic representation of the Zalanthan population.

There's always been times when there's been a disproportionately high (or low) number of PCs who are magickers, rangers, nobles, half-elves, half-giants, desert elves, etc. etc.  Or tall, pale, beautiful, muscular, healthy, rich, young, articulate, fearless, etc. etc.  

You can say it's different because magickers are more powerful, but they're supposed to be more powerful.  

It's not true that mundane plots are impossible, though.  One of my favorite plots ever was within the last six months, and all the major players were mundane.

Quote from: "Doppelganger"
Now, travelling with kankspeed without seeing at least one magicker openly on the road is a something impossible.


I've seen this claim several times in similar discussions, and I'm not sure how my experience has been so completely different.   Suffice to say, it's far from impossible.
"No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality; even larks and katydids are supposed, by some, to dream." - Shirley Jackson, The Haunting of Hill House

Tisiphone

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Dead Horse? Think again, sillies.
« Reply #142 on: August 02, 2007, 05:02:22 PM »
Remember the VNPCs.

They still hate 'gickers.

Play it out, please.
There is no general doctrine which is not capable of eating out our morality if unchecked by the deep-seated habit of direct fellow-feeling with individual fellow-men. -George Eliot

Angela Christine

  • Posts: 6595
Dead Horse? Think again, sillies.
« Reply #143 on: August 02, 2007, 05:34:39 PM »
Quote from: "Malken"
I'm really trying to find ways for the two sides to come together, help me out, people... Some mundanes with the ability to 'sense' magick would do a lot, for us who wants to keep with other mundanes, no?

I don't know why we should have to join up with other magickers if we want to hunt down rogue magickers, it goes against the docs that they should be avoided and feared as much as possible



The docs don't say that.  The guild docs give clear indications that elementalists are supposed to work with others.  

That's why I hate that the IC slur "magickers" has become common OOC.  There is a difference between Sorcerers and Elementalists.  Everybody hates Defilers, and rightly so.  Preservers generally get treated as poorly as Defilers, both because it is difficult to prove that one is not defiling, and impossible to prove that one will never turn to defiling in the future.  Elementalists are clearly and obviously different.  Everybody (outside of Tuluk) knows that they are different.  Yes, I DO believe that regular people recognise that there is a difference between Elementalists and Sorcerers.  

People mistrust elementalists, because they have powers that regular people don't understand.  But for many people, Elementalists are the least scary of psionicists and the three varieties of magick user (Templars, Sorcerers, and Elementalists).  In places like Allanak, Red Storm and Luir's, Elementalists make people nervous, not terrified.









ps: I am referring to the population of the known world in general.  Tuluk was damaged by powerful elemental magick gone out of control and has been paranoid about all magick ever since.  Some tribes also have cultural taboos about magick, or specific varieties of magick.  I'm not talking about those guys.
Treat the other man's faith gently; it is all he has to believe with."     Henry S. Haskins

Malken

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Dead Horse? Think again, sillies.
« Reply #144 on: August 02, 2007, 05:40:46 PM »
AC, I meant that mundanes shouldn't have to team up with magickers if they want to be able to hunt down rogue magickers..

I want to be able to play a mundane and just hang out with other mundanes, I want to push the whole magicky side of the game as far aside as I can possibly can :)

But apparently I don't know what everyone else knows and my mundane can easily track down rogue magickers.
“When I was a fighting man, the kettle-drums they beat;
The people scattered gold-dust before my horse’s feet;
But now I am a great king, the people hound my track
With poison in my wine-cup, and daggers at my back.”

Tisiphone

  • Posts: 3628
Dead Horse? Think again, sillies.
« Reply #145 on: August 02, 2007, 05:43:03 PM »
Quote from: "Malken"
But apparently I don't know what everyone else knows and my mundane can easily track down rogue magickers.


This is actually true. It just takes patience and preparation.
There is no general doctrine which is not capable of eating out our morality if unchecked by the deep-seated habit of direct fellow-feeling with individual fellow-men. -George Eliot

flurry

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Dead Horse? Think again, sillies.
« Reply #146 on: August 02, 2007, 06:28:05 PM »
Quote from: "Malken"
I want to be able to play a mundane and just hang out with other mundanes, I want to push the whole magicky side of the game as far aside as I can possibly can :)


I don't see why you can't just hang around with mundanes regardless of where you play.   There seem to be plenty around.
"No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality; even larks and katydids are supposed, by some, to dream." - Shirley Jackson, The Haunting of Hill House

jhunter

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Dead Horse? Think again, sillies.
« Reply #147 on: August 03, 2007, 12:22:43 AM »
Quote from: "flurry"
I've seen this claim several times in similar discussions, and I'm not sure how my experience has been so completely different. Suffice to say, it's far from impossible.


I agree wholeheartedly, but you'd better watch out saying that or they may begin to riot and attack you too.  :wink:

spawnloser

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Dead Horse? Think again, sillies.
« Reply #148 on: August 03, 2007, 04:50:46 AM »
Quote from: "flurry"
Quote from: "Malken"
I want to be able to play a mundane and just hang out with other mundanes, I want to push the whole magicky side of the game as far aside as I can possibly can :)
I don't see why you can't just hang around with mundanes regardless of where you play.   There seem to be plenty around.
There is this, and, Malken, magick exists.  If you go to places where it is safer to be a magicker (like lawless areas) expect to occasionally happen across a magicker.

If you are still hellbent on avoiding all contact with magickers and pretend they don't exist, go ahead and try it, but your choice of roles will be limited, I'd be guessing.

This does NOT mean that you can't be involved in plenty of nonmagickal activities and hang with your completely nonmagickal friends and do totally nonmagickal things.  You must just remember that if you approach places that they are more likely to be, you will be more likely to encounter them.
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Quote from: Spoon
A magicker is kind of like a mousetrap, the fear is the cheese. But this cheese has an AK47.

Delirium

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Dead Horse? Think again, sillies.
« Reply #149 on: August 03, 2007, 07:22:37 AM »
Two things:

a:
Stop going to places where mages are known to hang out, and/or stop provoking those mages, and you may have an easier time avoiding them. You who are so fond of numbers can chew on this: In 1 RL year I've been come upon in the wilderness by exactly 1 mage, and they were responsible about it and didn't just attack and kill me, but drove me off instead.

b:
Golly gee, you mean the wilderness is a dangerous and lawless place where you're very likely to die?!
"There are no happy endings, because nothing ends." - Schmendrick