Author Topic: Dead Horse? Think again, sillies.  (Read 16948 times)

Forest Junkie

  • Posts: 2639
Dead Horse? Think again, sillies.
« on: July 26, 2007, 07:53:45 PM »
This has been building up for quite some time now, and I feel the need to let this out:

I'm simply not enjoying the game anymore. There, I said it -- I've finally said what's been knawing at my gut for the past several months now.

I just can't seem to immerse myself in the game world like I could with previous characters. Perhaps that is a fault of my own. I'd like to contend, however, that the real reason the game isn't fun to me anymore is due to one reason: special applications.

Overall, I think the system for special applications is very good. However, tt's been hinted at that due to the closing of this current version of ArmageddonMUD, the more sensitive classes will be open to more players who haven't yet had the chance to play them. This disturbs and saddens me.

Over the course of around three months now, I've noticed not just a small amount of new high-end mages and max karma guilds -- rather, I've noticed a massive influx of said guilds. Not only are these guilds far more prevalent and visible, the players themselves flaunt their power openly and willingly, failing to even attempt to keep their identity secret. In past times, these characters would have been immediately slaughtered for such behavior.

The closing of the game seems to have caused all of us, myself included, to become far more lax with our styles of play.

I really don't know what else to say on this issue. I just can't let it continue and keep remaining quiet over the matter, though. I am sure there are a few players out there who would agree with me on this issue, and I feel strongly about how the game is turning out. I'm not happy with it, and I think that by allowing more players who are simply too unexperienced to handle highly sensitive roles, we will only bring the game down further.

To the staff: Will you please listen to the players on this issue, and offer your own thoughts?

This is a volatile issue with some I'm sure, so please keep any snide comments out of this thread. I don't want it getting locked -- this seriously needs to be discussed by both staff and player alike.

Janna

  • Posts: 602
Dead Horse? Think again, sillies.
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2007, 08:08:29 PM »
There is one thing you have to keep in mind thought, FJ...I can't really give specifics for the sake of IC info and all, but there -were- Mindbenders and sorcs and all kinds of High-karma IG before the announcement. Have those numbers gone up since the anouncement..yes, but not as much as everyone seems to think.

Whats really changed is the fact that people really want to strive for the idea of making an impact in the old game for the new one. How does one do that with a mundane dung-sweeper? No easily, hence more powerful characters.

Is this really such a major issue though? Is the quality of RP dropping based on power stats for PC's? I don't think so, in fact IMO, I've seen some of the best RP in quite some time over the last little while -because- the game is closing and people want to make that impact.

I guess I'm just weird or something..I really don't see why or how coded skills should effect an RPG. If the RP is bad and causing problems, address the RP and not the coded skill tree.

Forest Junkie

  • Posts: 2639
Dead Horse? Think again, sillies.
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2007, 08:22:11 PM »
Quote from: "Janna"
Have those numbers gone up since the anouncement..yes, but not as much as everyone seems to think.


Quote from: "Sanvean on recent special applications"
50% of this batch were apps for psis. Be aware that the competition for these slots right now is very stiff and that we already have a plethora of them on the game.

Malken

  • Posts: 9113
Dead Horse? Think again, sillies.
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2007, 08:28:35 PM »
Welcome to the club, Forest Junkie. Now be prepared for three answers:

1) You are mad and it's not really happening, it's all in your head.

2) It's happening but it has to do with the end of time RPTs and all is going as planned.

3) Everyone wants to try races and classes they won't get to play again in the new game. (That was a good excuse, when the mud was actually planned to go down for the next one within six months.. Now we're just having an insane amount of special classes accepted and the current mud might still be open come Xmas.)

Do like me, if you can't beat them, join them.. Apply for the highest possible karma special app you can and play your magicker or 'binder until guys like Jhunter are finally convinced that there's something wrong with the grand picture.

Until then, it's all in your head.
“When I was a fighting man, the kettle-drums they beat;
The people scattered gold-dust before my horse’s feet;
But now I am a great king, the people hound my track
With poison in my wine-cup, and daggers at my back.”

Janna

  • Posts: 602
Dead Horse? Think again, sillies.
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2007, 08:30:49 PM »
I'm failing to see your point on the last post. Honestly, I'm not trying to be a smart ass or anything, so what if 50% of the Special apps were Psi's..Did they -all- get approved? I don't think so. The amount that were IG already? So what? Some have probably died since then not to mention no one seemed to care that they were there before recently. I will not dispute that they have gone up in numbers, you're absolutely right, but not so much as to be considered jarring IMO.

Like I said in my OP, if the RP is up to par, then why care about the stat tree? If the RP is lacking, then address that issue.

Forest Junkie

  • Posts: 2639
Dead Horse? Think again, sillies.
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2007, 08:48:48 PM »
Quote from: "Janna"
I'm failing to see your point on the last post.


Quote from: "Sanvean, in reference to the amount of psionicists in the game"
We [...] have a plethora of them on the game.


That's my point.

Quote from: "Janna"
Did they -all- get approved? I don't think so.


So what? I'll be conservative and say that a "plethora" = three psionicists. I'll be conservative once more and guesstimate that only two special applications for psionicists were approved. That means that there are five in the game now. It may be just me, but I seriously don't see Zalanthas as a big enough playground to host five kids with magnifying glasses. It's just not fun being the ant.

Quote from: "Janna"
But not so much as to be considered jarring IMO.


That's just it, Janna. I do find it jarring. I find it jarring that certain cities are home to several high-end guilds. Where has the harshness of armageddon gone? The gritty realism? The fight for survival? The lone ranger? I'd be willing to bet they're all hiding under a rock from that rogue, OHK loose-cannon of a mage who, quite frankly, isn't responsible enough to roleplay said magicker. That may sound harsh to you, and it may make me sound elitist, but it's all sour grapes to me.

Quote from: "Janna"
Like I said in my OP, if the RP is up to par, then why care about the stat tree? If the RP is lacking, then address that issue.


I don't think it is up to par. If only I could cite specific IC instances to further explain my case..*le sigh*

You word this excerpt as if you agree with me. I do find the level of roleplay lacking, and I am addressing that issue. I contend that there is a direct correlation between said factors.

Tisiphone

  • Posts: 3629
Dead Horse? Think again, sillies.
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2007, 08:54:51 PM »
I think you're both right.

If you look around (or sometimes, even if you don't) you'll find people who are roleplaying wonderfully and not powergaming their classes, mundane or otherwise.

If you look around (or sometimes, even if you don't) you'll find people who are roleplaying horribly and constantly powergaming their classes, mundane (not so much) or otherwise.

One further note: the issue here isn't an argument of fact or fiction: whether or not there ARE more special-apped benders and 'gickers in the game. The issue is with the perception, true or not, and telling people 'tisn't true usually doesn't change what they think.

Are there any ideas of what we can do to help players like FJ get back into the game, without hamstringing players like Janna? I don't know that curtailing special apps for high-end guilds is the answer. Perhaps closer immteraction for those people? That puts a heavy load on an already overdriven staff. Is there a way to deal with it IC? I can't speak to this one at all, as I've had little experience with such. However, those who have, could speak up, and try to find something, even if they don't see an IC solution at first glance.
There is no general doctrine which is not capable of eating out our morality if unchecked by the deep-seated habit of direct fellow-feeling with individual fellow-men. -George Eliot

bardbard#4

  • Posts: 779
Dead Horse? Think again, sillies.
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2007, 08:54:52 PM »
Quote from: "Janna"
Like I said in my OP, if the RP is up to par, then why care about the stat tree? If the RP is lacking, then address that issue.


The fact that all these characters are plainly visible means that their RP is inherently flawed.  ANY sort of magick is supposed to feared, hated, and contain a healthy dose of secrecy.  Gemmed magickers in Allanak are not exempt from this doctrine.

If the people who are playing all these characters aren't capable of keeping themselves hidden and in line with the IC-stigma of the karma classes, then they don't deserve to be playing those characters.
Roses are #FF0000
Violets are #0000FF
All my base
Are belong to you

Lizzie

  • Posts: 8023
Dead Horse? Think again, sillies.
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2007, 08:57:30 PM »
You know, when I first started (has it been a year already? OMG), there were already a lot of magickers in the game. And complaints about a lot of magickers in the game.

I'm glad I didn't pay much attention to the complaints then, because I was new and didn't really want to see complaints at all. And now that I've been here almost a year and have seen tons and tons of magickers, and experienced tons and tons of mindbenders, I am -still- glad I didn't read the complaints, then.

Because - I have been LOVING this game, just the way it is, and the way it's been over the last year. Magicks is exactly as brutal, scary, dangerous, and creepy as the docs said it would be. The mystery of mindbenders is JUST as mysterious as the docs said it would be.

The game is exactly as advertised, even with all the magickers running around and mindbenders bending everyone's minds. It's still scary, and crazy, and spooky, and wicked, and twisted, and hardcore, and intensive.

And I'm totally digging all the RP, almost everyone I've interacted with has been stellar. Even the mindbenders and magickers.

Now please continue to carry on with your complaints. I'm late for my tea party with the local defiler.

L. Stanson
Talia said: Notice to all: Do not mess with Lizzie's GDB. She will cut you.
Delirium said: Notice to all: do not mess with Lizzie's soap. She will cut you.

bardbard#4

  • Posts: 779
Dead Horse? Think again, sillies.
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2007, 09:00:32 PM »
Quote from: "Lizzie"
Because - I have been LOVING this game, just the way it is, and the way it's been over the last year. Magicks is exactly as brutal, scary, dangerous, and creepy as the docs said it would be. The mystery of mindbenders is JUST as mysterious as the docs said it would be.


Perhaps for you.  But for those of us who have been playing for upwards of 7-8 years...well...I think the best word to describe what's happening is "stale".

It's like someone took my bottle of Blue Label and left it sitting out in the sun for a straight week.
Roses are #FF0000
Violets are #0000FF
All my base
Are belong to you

Cale_Knight

  • Posts: 1930
Dead Horse? Think again, sillies.
« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2007, 09:03:19 PM »
There are way more "special" characters in the game than there were six months ago. Way more. Way way more.

Players might draw different conclusions from this, other players might draw different causes, but none of you can really be blind enough to think that the numbers are the same as they were previously.
Brevity is the soul of wit." -Shakespeare

"Omit needless words." -Strunk and White.

"Simplify, simplify." Thoreau

Forest Junkie

  • Posts: 2639
Dead Horse? Think again, sillies.
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2007, 09:04:50 PM »
Quote from: "Cale_Knight"
There are way more "special" characters in the game than there were six months ago. Way more. Way way more.

Players might draw different conclusions from this, other players might draw different causes, but none of you can really be blind enough to think that the numbers are the same as they were previously.


Thank you.

jhunter

  • Posts: 6103
Dead Horse? Think again, sillies.
« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2007, 09:09:36 PM »
Quote from: "Malken"
Welcome to the club, Forest Junkie. Now be prepared for three answers:

1) You are mad and it's not really happening, it's all in your head.

2) It's happening but it has to do with the end of time RPTs and all is going as planned.

3) Everyone wants to try races and classes they won't get to play again in the new game. (That was a good excuse, when the mud was actually planned to go down for the next one within six months.. Now we're just having an insane amount of special classes accepted and the current mud might still be open come Xmas.)

Do like me, if you can't beat them, join them.. Apply for the highest possible karma special app you can and play your magicker or 'binder until guys like Jhunter are finally convinced that there's something wrong with the grand picture.

Until then, it's all in your head.


Thank you for taking the smartassed shot at me when I wasn't involved in this discussion in the first place.
My experiences with the game are showing nothing of the sort. Until they do I won't be convinced by people spouting off about it. I'm only going on my personal experiences and I don't appreciate the rude and insulting comments directed at me for stating the facts about my personal experience. So, fuck off.

WarriorPoet

  • Posts: 4658
Dead Horse? Think again, sillies.
« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2007, 09:10:12 PM »
I want to cry when I think about how truly afraid and excited I used to get when I was accosted by a skary magicker/psi/sork, compared to now when all I feel is dread that he's going to off me in yet another generic death.

I've always felt that the novelty and fun of seeing these guilds, and yes, playing them, was in their rarity. That's gone now, so...

-WP doesn't know.
We were somewhere near the Shield Wall, on the edge of the Red Desert, when the drugs began to take hold...

Lizzie

  • Posts: 8023
Dead Horse? Think again, sillies.
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2007, 09:10:39 PM »
I think it was a phase. Right now, without getting IC, I can count the magickers my character knows personally on one hand. And I need more than three hands to count the mundanes my character knows personally. And my character has been around since..last September I think. It did seem like it was the other way around, as recent as a RL month ago. But it looks to me like things are shifting again, and it really doesn't bother me one way or another, because it's when things -stop- shifting that it gets stale.
Talia said: Notice to all: Do not mess with Lizzie's GDB. She will cut you.
Delirium said: Notice to all: do not mess with Lizzie's soap. She will cut you.

Janna

  • Posts: 602
Dead Horse? Think again, sillies.
« Reply #15 on: July 26, 2007, 09:14:27 PM »
Quote from: "Forest Junkie"
Quote from: "Cale_Knight"
There are way more "special" characters in the game than there were six months ago. Way more. Way way more.

Players might draw different conclusions from this, other players might draw different causes, but none of you can really be blind enough to think that the numbers are the same as they were previously.


Thank you.


I don't, or didn't dispute that the numbers went up, my dispute was on whether or not it really affected the RP which is what the game is obviously about. From what FJ has posted, as well as bardbard, some of it has gone south, which is sad to me. Thankfully, I've not experienced this. The few I've played with IG have been model RP'ers in my books.

jhunter

  • Posts: 6103
Dead Horse? Think again, sillies.
« Reply #16 on: July 26, 2007, 09:16:01 PM »
Quote from: "WarriorPoet"
I want to cry when I think about how truly afraid and excited I used to get when I was accosted by a skary magicker/psi/sork, compared to now when all I feel is dread that he's going to off me in yet another generic death.

I've always felt that the novelty and fun of seeing these guilds, and yes, playing them, was in their rarity. That's gone now, so...

-WP doesn't know.


For me the novelty wore off after the first time. I don't think it has anything to do with an increase but more to do with your experience with the game. I no longer feel as excited as I once used to about exploring the gameworld because I've seen enough of it, it no longer suprises me much. I think it's a different aspect of the same problem that occurs after having played the game for quite some time. What I'm trying to get at is that it wouldn't really matter if they had increased or not.
Eventually you will experience it a few times and it won't be as intriguing anymore.

Malken

  • Posts: 9113
Dead Horse? Think again, sillies.
« Reply #17 on: July 26, 2007, 09:17:09 PM »
Quote from: "jhunter"

Thank you for taking the smartassed shot at me when I wasn't involved in this discussion in the first place.
My experiences with the game are showing nothing of the sort. Until they do I won't be convinced by people spouting off about it. I'm only going on my personal experiences and I don't appreciate the rude and insulting comments directed at me for stating the facts about my personal experience. So, fuck off.


There's absolutely no insulting comments directed at you, Jhunter, so chill out. All I'm saying is that you are the other side that doesn't agree with me and those who thinks it's that way now. I could have said Lizzie, because I remembered Lizzie's point of view as well, but you and I have argued about this for so long that your name came first to my mind. Where is the insult in that?

So until both sides AGREE that there is a problem, nothing will be done, is what I meant.
“When I was a fighting man, the kettle-drums they beat;
The people scattered gold-dust before my horse’s feet;
But now I am a great king, the people hound my track
With poison in my wine-cup, and daggers at my back.”

rufus

  • Posts: 1107
Dead Horse? Think again, sillies.
« Reply #18 on: July 26, 2007, 09:18:41 PM »
I've seen some SERIOUSLY jarring things in game lately.
I concur with the previous post.  (the one by cale_knight)

"Stale" is a good way to put it.


It's like people are treating this game as World of Warcraft.

jhunter

  • Posts: 6103
Dead Horse? Think again, sillies.
« Reply #19 on: July 26, 2007, 09:25:56 PM »
Malken:
If you have to intentionally -try- to bring it about for everyone, then obviously it's not a problem across the board.
There wouldn't be two sides to it if there was a problem is what I'm getting at. Everyone would be experiencing an issue with constant contact with the karma guilds, wouldn't they?
I don't understand how every character I have played in the last year hasn't encountered this issue if it's so bad. If it were that bad, then wouldn't at least -one- of my pcs had that sort of problem? Most of my pcs haven't encountered -any- magick at all and the few that did...where -magickers-.
On a note more related to the topic, my magicker pcs do their best to stay the fuck away from mundane pcs as much as they can. When they do encounter a mundane pc, it's usually the mundane that begins with the hostility and aggressive behavior that gets them into trouble. Unless they really piss off my pc or leave me with no choice, I will still try to evade or avoid them

Janna

  • Posts: 602
Dead Horse? Think again, sillies.
« Reply #20 on: July 26, 2007, 09:31:15 PM »
I can't believe I'm going to type this...I agree with Jhunter.  :wink:

My current character does not know a single magicker or psi at all. Not one. I'm also currently playing a regular mundane and leaving the Shiny Karma for later, if needed.

Forest Junkie

  • Posts: 2639
Dead Horse? Think again, sillies.
« Reply #21 on: July 26, 2007, 09:31:19 PM »
Quote from: "jhunter"
I don't understand how every character I have played in the last year hasn't encountered this issue if it's so bad.


Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that you're playing times are very erractic, and at times non-existant, therefore you aren't really in a position to truly know? Just a thought, j-baby.  :wink:

ale six

  • Posts: 1278
Dead Horse? Think again, sillies.
« Reply #22 on: July 26, 2007, 09:39:24 PM »
I think it's a little misleading to say what your current character knows or doesn't -- everyone can either seek out or avoid magickers with a role based on smart choices.

Looking at the aggregate experiences of your PCs over the past few months may be better. How many times did they get mindbent (that you know of?) How many discussions about magick did they overhear? How many magickal items did they see/possess? How many times did they or someone close to them rely on magick for a plot? How many deaths have you recently had to a mage?

I've said this before -- I would love to see a staff crack down on the number of karma PCs in the game and on the people playing them. I doubt that will happen, but it sure would be nice.

KARMAGEDDON KARMAGEDDON KARMAGEDDON

Tisiphone

  • Posts: 3629
Dead Horse? Think again, sillies.
« Reply #23 on: July 26, 2007, 09:42:20 PM »
Just to bring this up: What about karma races?

Anyone having a problem with the number of half-giants, muls, and so on?
There is no general doctrine which is not capable of eating out our morality if unchecked by the deep-seated habit of direct fellow-feeling with individual fellow-men. -George Eliot

jhunter

  • Posts: 6103
Dead Horse? Think again, sillies.
« Reply #24 on: July 26, 2007, 09:43:43 PM »
Quote from: "Forest Junkie"
Quote from: "jhunter"
I don't understand how every character I have played in the last year hasn't encountered this issue if it's so bad.


Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that you're playing times are very erractic, and at times non-existant, therefore you aren't really in a position to truly know? Just a thought, j-baby.  :wink:


Only the last couple months FJ. I was playing more consistently before that and people were having the same complaints and I still wasn't experiencing a problem. I have started to play more just recently and have yet to encounter a problem with it.