Author Topic: Multiple taverns and their effects on play.  (Read 2719 times)

Anonymous

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Multiple taverns and their effects on play.
« on: March 05, 2003, 02:01:07 PM »
Curious as to what people think about the role taverns play in finding roleplay opportunities and the effect that having multiple taverns in a given city has on either diversifying or fracturing the playerbase.

I like it when new areas, buildings, shops, clothing, weapons, npcs etc are added to the game.  I appreciate the effort and this is not a criticism against the work that has been done.

Offhand I can think of 18 taverns in the game.  Some of those are in either remote locations or more isolated areas of population centers.  Still, looking at just the starting locations you have:

Tuluk: 5
'rinth: 3
Allanak: 3
Luir's: 2
Red Storm: 1

My feeling is that too many taverns leads to a decrease in the number of encounters a player will have during their session.  

Take Allanak.  Generally the commoner population swings between the Gaj and the Barrel with the hoidy toidy types sticking to the Trader's Inn with an occasional foray to the Barrel.

Is that a good thing?  Maybe the Gaj should become a virtual tavern.  Or maybe the Trader's.  Or maybe the Bard's Barrel.

Or maybe three taverns is the perfect number for a large population.  Maybe some people *like* to go into an empty tavern and solo roleplay.

In Tuluk I believe there are five taverns including some new ones.  I think its great to have new social settings added to the game, but if they are added to an already crowded field of evening venues do they go under utilized?  Would it be better to have shutdown the Firestorm Pub, or at least relegated it to a virtual bar that was nothing more than a quit safe room?

With the divisions in the game already imposed via race, magickal ability, social status and hometown biases along with the playerbase being splintered by clan affiliation which often leads to long play sessions within your clan at clan hq (Byn mess hall, guard barracks, merchant stock rooms, noble bedrooms etc) perhaps it would be best that as new taverns are added the old ones cease to be except in a virtual sense.

Barzalene

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Multiple taverns and their effects on play.
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2003, 02:10:04 PM »
I think you definitely have a point.

One thing your do not seem to be taking into account it the ic reasons why new taverns are opened. Who owns them? Is it important for them to have a presence in the area they are operating in? Are they actually a front for something else, or really just a tavern.

I do agree that virtual taverns are worth considering however.
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Lazloth

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Multiple taverns and their effects on play.
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2003, 02:15:32 PM »
I'm on the other side of the fence.   I love the diversity afforded with multiple social spots over a wide expanse.

Of the six 'active' taverns in the greater Allanaki metropolis, I know roughly what to expect within and can direct my PCs accordingly.  I was quite saddened, as a matter of fact (OOC), when I returned to the game after a lapse and found more than one of my prior 'favorite' watering holes gone.

Places come and go.  For periods of time they may attract a given clientele and that may shift.  I'm all for physical taverns remaining in the game en masse!
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Multiple taverns and their effects on play.
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2003, 02:21:39 PM »
On another point I have characters that have never set foot in taverns. And have had -more- encounters then the occassional tavern drawl that I find in the these establishments.

Youd be amazed how many people dont hang around "the Gaj" or other places, yet the consensus is that no one plays in the south if these places are empty :) hehe...

Go explore!

Anonymous

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Multiple taverns and their effects on play.
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2003, 02:33:02 PM »
Quote from: "Barzalene"
One thing your do not seem to be taking into account it the ic reasons why new taverns are opened. Who owns them? Is it important for them to have a presence in the area they are operating in? Are they actually a front for something else, or really just a tavern.


All good points, especially the latter which I hadn't considered.

Angela Christine

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Multiple taverns and their effects on play.
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2003, 04:01:07 PM »
I think there are actually 6 or 7 tavernish places in Tuluk, but you NEED that many because it's such a long walk to get anywhere you have to stop a couple times and get a drink on your way.   :P  I don't have a problem with extra taverns.  Sometimes the tavern you are in is unbearably spammy to hold a quiet conversation, so you move to an OOCly quieter tavern.

I won't mention the "new" places since some people may not have discovered them all yet, plus I assume the staff thought there was a good reason to put them in.  So what about the old ones?

Sun King's Sanctuary:  Although it has gotten a little tattered over the years, this is probably still the most upscale social center in Tuluk.  Like the Gaj in Allanak, it also has the advantage of being nearest to the main public stables and wagon yard, which makes it attractive to travellers.

Firestorm Pub:  It used to be the town pub, and since people don't live there now that it is the mercantile quarter you might think a town pub is unnecessary.  On the other hand while people don't live there, many people do spend time there.  It's where the shopkeepers and shoppers go for lunch.  And it's the home of Firestorm's Flame Whisky, which must be preserved at all costs.   :wink:

That one in the Vineyard:  Sorry, I forget the name.  Buisnesses have been leaving the vineyard for years, moving to the new merchant's quarter.   This makes me a little nervous, thinking they may plan to completely close the vineyard to the public.   :shock:  I've always thought the ambiance in this tavern was that it was the direct outlet for the wines produced by the vineyard, it's as much a wine shop as a tavern.  If you are willing to hoof it down to the vineyard, you should be able to buy bottles of wine for less than it costs to buy wine from secondary retailers, so I'd like this to stay open as the vineyard wine outlet.  The vineyard is also the closest civilized quit safe area with a stable for people working in the grasslands south and west of the city.  With the west gate of the city closed, making your way around to the main stables can take a while, which is a pain when you want to log out in a hurry.  

All three of these old taverns still have a steady customer base.

It's the same in 'nak.  Most non-rinthers are not comfortable going into the rinth, so they need a place to unwind in allanak proper.  The Gaj is a nice place for commoners, as nobles rarely bother you in there (It is also the closest place to the main gate, and has the only public cooking facilities).  The Trader's Inn is nice for Nobles, as you rarely get bothered by elves, 'rinthers and other scum in the Trader's.  The Bard's Barrel provides a useful middle ground.  It's nicer than the Gaj, good for people who don't want to spend time in a filthy sports bard cum flop house, but it is still accessable to anyone who can afford an ale.  Nobles who are bored don't need to make up an excuse to visit the Barrel, the live entertainment and the casino provide a reason for anyone to go.  

I don't think there is a major problem.  Sometimes some of the taverns are empty, but the tavern populations fluctuate naturally.  I'd leave them going until someone bombs or magicks them to oblivion for IC reasons.  It isn't like there is a Zalanthian health inspector to shut down the Gaj just for being filthy.   :)

AC
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Master Z

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Multiple taverns and their effects on play.
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2003, 04:20:47 PM »
I think that the number of taverns in most places seems to match the number of social classes and the playerbase in that location pretty well. I think having at least one high class and one low class tavern keeps the class distinction just that, distinct. Also, I can imagine that if there were 10 taverns it would either spread people out too much or make a bunch relatively unactive, but two or three doesn't seem to do that. I think someone mentioned that its nice to have an overflow tavern for when one tavern has too many people in it and is spammy, I certainly can appriciate that sentiment as well. So right now I think things are just right.
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Sandferret

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Multiple taverns and their effects on play.
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2003, 04:28:09 PM »
I certainly appreciated having a way to avoid being in the same tavern with certain people. If I saw those I did not want to deal with IC in a tavern, I'd go to another.

If there had been just one, it would have been either to sit in there gritting virtual teeth or wander the streets.
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Rindan

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Multiple taverns and their effects on play.
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2003, 05:40:05 PM »
Personally, I think that Tuluk does taverns great.  The top three most visited taverns in Tuluk are the Sanctuary, Firestorm, and Tembo's Tooth.  All of them have their unique patrons.  I would be disappointed to see taverns shut down.   You would be surprised how some active some taverns are in terms of PC populations.

The same goes with Allanak.  The three taverns in Allanak provide completely different atmospheres.  The Gaj is a dirty place where any filthy Joe can show up at.  The Traders is for people of wealth and class.  The Bards Barrel is a happy medium and a sort of common ground.  Taking out any of those taverns would, in my opinion, hurt class distinctions in the game.

In Tuluk there are some extra taverns that see little use.  I think that these taverns also serve a function.  First off, they are not detracting from the player base as no one goes to them.  Second, they offer a place for groups to gather in semiprivate manner.  I would be very surprised if at some point one of those ‘empty’ taverns did start to serve as a base for one group or another to organize so that they are not directly in the sight of certain people.  Certainly during the occupation, just having two extra taverns besides the Sanctuary did a great deal to promote rebellion activities.

I say leave taverns as they are.  If the population splits up between taverns there is probably a good reason for it.  If the taverns are unused, then it is no burden on the population of the other taverns.  Seems like a win-win situation to me.

Callisto

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Multiple taverns and their effects on play.
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2003, 07:43:16 PM »
I can't speak for New Tuluk, since I've yet to play there, but in Allanak I think there are the perfect number of taverns.

The Gaj is ideal for most commoners, the Traders is ideal for most nobles and the Bards Barrel is a good place for the two to mingle if/when there is a need for it without either of them invading each others respective areas.

If Tuluk is as immense as its made out to be, then five to seven taverns seems to make a lot of sense. Once the player base reaches around a hundred people online, I'm sure a lot of those places will turn into regular haunts for people. I think by that point, Allanak would be lacking in the tavern department, actually. It would be interesting to see little gangs spring up within the city-states, each one having their own little hang out in one area of town. Bar brawls and shady deals would abound, followed shortly there after by templarate raids.   :mrgreen:
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