Author Topic: Arm-specific descriptions are out of hand...  (Read 7717 times)

moab

  • Posts: 1436
Arm-specific descriptions are out of hand...
« Reply #50 on: April 09, 2006, 01:21:00 PM »
I do go out of the way for newbies, having brought a few to the mud.
I am also a helper, though I don't list it on this account.

Further, when I say the mud is not about the players, this is not my idea, but one stated by the staff on a number of occasions.
 
If they catered to players, the game would be like grass in the wind, bending every which way.  It doesn't because the game is about what the staff wants with input from the players. But don't kid yourself.  You will never have anything happen in this game that you want that the staff does not want.
 
This was stated many times over many years.  Unless there has been some great philosophy shift that hasn't been expressed, I don't believe it has changed.
quote="Hymwen"]
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A pair of free chalton leather boots is here, carrying the newbie.[/quote]

Larrath

  • Posts: 2987
Arm-specific descriptions are out of hand...
« Reply #51 on: April 09, 2006, 01:22:00 PM »
moab is not evil nor as mean as he appears in this thread.
Let's not kill him.

P.s. Yeah, there are a lot of Helpers and I think most of them feel this game is newbie-friendly.  The Helper list has over 40 names right now.
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Morgenes

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Arm-specific descriptions are out of hand...
« Reply #52 on: April 09, 2006, 01:23:58 PM »
While I agree that Zalanthan specific terms, can be difficult to parse, I think they are an important part of impressing the flavor of the world, and the player's commitment to bringing that flavor to life.  I think providing help files on things like 'Horta', 'Jihae' and other common words that are used would be a good way to help ease this.

I'm sorry that Davien decided to pull her character builder page, because I know it has helped many a newbie put together a short description, and many a veteran come up with a new combination.  

I'm going to be following this post up with a call for helpfiles for common zalanthan terms used to espress color, texture, etc... so that we can help newbies with this issue.
Morgenes

Producer
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moab

  • Posts: 1436
Arm-specific descriptions are out of hand...
« Reply #53 on: April 09, 2006, 01:24:45 PM »
Depends what you mean by newbie friendly.

No newbie school.
Perma death after two hours.

Can you imagine spending two days writing up and waiting for your first app and dying in the first three hours?

All the while, you can't contact, you can't emote and you have no idea where to get water or food.

And that halfling IS NOT friendly.

If by newbie friendly we mean we have an OOC support system. Yes, we are.

If by newbie friendly meaning you'll pick up the game quickly, we are not.
quote="Hymwen"]
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A pair of free chalton leather boots is here, carrying the newbie.[/quote]

Marauder Moe

  • Posts: 12907
Arm-specific descriptions are out of hand...
« Reply #54 on: April 09, 2006, 01:26:05 PM »
Ack!  The character thesaurus is gone?  Can we get it hosted here maybe?   :shock:

Anonymous

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Arm-specific descriptions are out of hand...
« Reply #55 on: April 09, 2006, 01:28:13 PM »
Quote from: "Larrath"
moab is not evil nor as mean as he appears in this thread.
Let's not kill him.


lol.  

Incidently, I found Sanvean's building guide said what I thought fairly well:

Quote from: "Sanvean"
Descriptions are ideally between 4-10 lines long. The main intention is to convey an accurate picture - don't get bogged down in flowery or overly ornate language that obscures the visual image. Don't fall victim to thesaurus-speak and substitute complex words for straightforward unless they do indeed add a layer of meaning to the writing. Don't use words because they look good and please, for the love of Muk Utep, don't use them if you're unclear on the meaning.

Use Zalanthan terms. Not oak-brown, but cunyati-brown. Pink as a pymlithe blossom. Not snow white but ivory or milk. Keep in mind the differences between various areas - in the Northlands wood is the most common building material, while in the south, stone or bone will be more common.


I note that her note prefers saying "cunyati-brown" or "pink as a pymlithe blossom" rather than using just the word "pymlithe" or "cunyati" as it seems to "obscure the visual image".

I guess I would be fine if it said something like "horta-colored eyes" or "hair the color of the red moon Jihae" - but the english translations, to me, come out like "the oak-haired woman" or "the eggplant-eyed woman" which just makes me giggle.  The first has hair made of wood, and the second has fruits for eyes.

Maybe it's not the arm specificity of these sdescs that irritates me, but the usage of terms in context.  "The main intention is to convey an accurate picture - don't get bogged down in flowery or overly ornate language that obscures the visual image."

Many Faces

  • Posts: 135
Arm-specific descriptions are out of hand...
« Reply #56 on: April 09, 2006, 01:32:12 PM »
Quote
that her note prefers saying "cunyati-brown" or "pink as a pymlithe blossom" rather than using just the word "pymlithe" or "cunyati" as it seems to "obscure the visual image".

I guess I would be fine if it said something like "horta-colored eyes" or "hair the color of the red moon Jihae" - but the english translations, to me, come out like "the oak-haired woman" or "the eggplant-eyed woman" which just makes me giggle. The first has hair made of wood, and the second has fruits for eyes.


That's a very good point, davien.

It should always be backed up, but sdescs are a tight commodity.  Colored is 7 characters, of what, 36?  Hued would work.  Even toned, but still, that's 4 chars (5 with a dash) that you can't use in your sdesc to get across the rest of what you might want to.[/quote]
 n
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The lauramarsian, female human is standing here, patiently.

You think:
  "She almost makes it too easy..."

This post was most likely written by a belligerent drunk, please chase with salt.

Anonymous

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Arm-specific descriptions are out of hand...
« Reply #57 on: April 09, 2006, 01:33:20 PM »
brevity is the soul of wit.

aruna

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Arm-specific descriptions are out of hand...
« Reply #58 on: April 09, 2006, 01:36:45 PM »
Pleeeease don't pull the character thesaurus. I love that thing. :(

moab

  • Posts: 1436
Arm-specific descriptions are out of hand...
« Reply #59 on: April 09, 2006, 01:36:47 PM »
In the end, when it come to short descriptions, (for what it is worth) I prefer the average joe look.

The lean, dark-haired man
The short, olive-skinned woman

I, personally, don't often play someone with odd "water colored hair" or anything like that.

I have been known to take non-unique npc short descs and use those because very often I want to look like the average joe.

but I will certainly slip in the eyes the silvery-grey of glimmergrass in the main desc.

Really.  Lots of ya'll don't read main descs and plenty use brief mode anyway.

*poke*
quote="Hymwen"]
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A pair of free chalton leather boots is here, carrying the newbie.[/quote]

Yokunama

  • Posts: 1894
Re: Arm-specific descriptions are out of hand...
« Reply #60 on: April 09, 2006, 02:02:57 PM »
Quote from: "davien"
Does anyone else think this degree of theme-specifics might be making the game a little less accessible to new players?


Quote from: "Packersfan"
Now how about incredibly ooc words in sdescs, such as coffee-dark?


Quote from: "Raesanos"
It is not "wrong" to use non-Zalanthan metaphors, comparisons, etc. in your description writing. However, it is preferred that you use Zalanthan terms since it helps add a lot of flavor to the game.  If you're a player who has been around awhile, application reviewers may make suggestions regarding how to Zalanthanize your descriptions since we like to see people move in that direction, but we understand its hard to write that way when you're new.

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Sanvean

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Arm-specific descriptions are out of hand...
« Reply #61 on: April 09, 2006, 02:07:47 PM »
I like the Zalanthan themed touches in sdesc and ldescs.  They don't seem to be too over the top lately to me.

Anonymous

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Arm-specific descriptions are out of hand...
« Reply #62 on: April 09, 2006, 09:29:31 PM »
Yeah, now that I've pinpointed why it itched me, I'm mostly go.  But I'm easing a new player into it now, and he is completely lost and despairing because descriptions using exclusively in-game terms are not descriptive to him as he has never seen a pymlithe blossom or an agafari branch or a ginka vine or a horta fruit.  
 
I don't consider it "laziness" or "willful ignorance" for him to feel this way, either.  But I'll keep giggling at people with tree-hair and fruit-eyes, now.  That totally makes me smile.

LauraMars

  • Helper
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Arm-specific descriptions are out of hand...
« Reply #63 on: April 09, 2006, 09:50:09 PM »
The tree-haired, fruit-eyed man is blossoming here, fruitily.
Child, child, if you come to this doomed house, what is to save you?

A voice whispers, "Read the tales upon the walls."

Anonymous

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Arm-specific descriptions are out of hand...
« Reply #64 on: April 09, 2006, 10:27:06 PM »
Quote from: "LauraMars"
The tree-haired, fruit-eyed man is blossoming here, fruitily.


lol!

Exactly!

Anonymous

  • Guest
Arm-specific descriptions are out of hand...
« Reply #65 on: April 10, 2006, 01:06:54 AM »
Quote from: "LauraMars"
The tree-haired, fruit-eyed man is blossoming here, fruitily.


The chestnut-haired, orange-eyed man is blossoming here, fruitily.

Angela Christine

  • Posts: 6595
Arm-specific descriptions are out of hand...
« Reply #66 on: April 10, 2006, 01:35:46 AM »
Using uncommon words in your sdesc is fine, but it is fantastic if you expand and clairfy them in your mdesc.  

Suppose I see the jallal-haired man.  I'm going to assume they mean the colour of jallal, but do they mean the wood of the jallal tree, the bark of the jallal tree, the leaves of the jallal tree, the roots of the jallal tree, the rind of the jallal fruit, the flesh of the jallal fruit, or the pit of the jallal fruit?  There just isn't enough context to figure it out, unless they clairify it in the mdesc.

Then I see the namut-haired man.  I think, "Ah ha!  Greenish grey hair!  I bet he's a mutant."  But then I read the mdesc and find out he isn't a mutant, his hair is the texture of namut vines (kind of ropy and shaggy, like dreadlocks) not the colour of namut vines.  D'oh!  It's a good thing I read his mdesc before I went and called him a green haired freak.


Clairity is good.


Angela Christine
Treat the other man's faith gently; it is all he has to believe with."     Henry S. Haskins

John

  • Posts: 4065
Arm-specific descriptions are out of hand...
« Reply #67 on: April 10, 2006, 02:44:18 AM »
There are a ton of words that I didn't know before I came to Arm. I personally view Arm-specific words in the same category as those, the only difference is where you look for the answer. With real words you don't know, you look in a dictionary, other words you can now look in helpfiles (a nice rule of thumb you might want to make for yourself is if you use an Arm specific word, check to see if it has a helpfile yet and submit one if it doesn't).

But using words can be difficult, so you might only want to use the most common. I remember when I was new everyone asking me what colour my peshek hair was ;)
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Anonymous

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A New Question
« Reply #68 on: April 10, 2006, 09:22:00 AM »
So, a new question, then.  

Would someone who has never left Allanak know what a Pfafna flower looks like?  Or someone who has never left Red Storm, would they know what a pymlithe blossom looks like?
 
Or, are we conveying things that are only OOC known with our descriptions?

moab

  • Posts: 1436
Arm-specific descriptions are out of hand...
« Reply #69 on: April 10, 2006, 09:32:49 AM »
We are buildling the theme and environment of the mud.
quote="Hymwen"]
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A pair of free chalton leather boots is here, carrying the newbie.[/quote]

Sanvean

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Arm-specific descriptions are out of hand...
« Reply #70 on: April 10, 2006, 11:00:21 AM »
Here's the list that I found on the staff wiki, put together by Ix Machina a while back:

Animals

anakore-eyed: Beady or hard, cruel eyes
braxat-like: primitive and hulking
carru-horned: possessing sharp, braching horns
duskhorn-eyed: doe-eyed, soft-eyed
duskhorn-horned: possessing long, spiralling black horns
escru-haired: woolly-haired
gortok-eyed: wild, canine/wolven eyes; feral eyes
gortok-like: mangy and feral
goudra: a golden-brown hue
goudra-like: long and slinky, sinuous
gurthlike: posessing sturdy, squat qualities (mandy dwarves are gurthlike)
jakhal-eyed: possessing wild, sharp eyes; feral
jozhal-eyed: possessing eyes of iridescent, glittering quality
jozhal-skinned: possessing skin of a shimmering, iridescent quality
mekillot: overpoweringly-huge, gigantic (denotes size)
quirri-eyed: sharp, feline eyes, usually green or bioluminescent
quirri-hued/toned: deep black, like quirri hide
raptor-skinned: possessing scaly, lizard-like skin
rat-like: features resembling a sharp-nosed rodent
shik-nosed: a long, protruberant nose, like a shik-beak
tandu: a pale to medium brown, somewhere between tan and coffee
tembo-eyed: savage, cruel eyes
tembo-like: squat and savage-looking
tortoise-shell: a mottled hue of olive, greens, golds and browns like polished bahamet shell
tregil-like: small and harmless-looking

Herbs

bimbal: a greyish-green hue
glimmergrass: a silvery-green hue
joylilt: a bright, orangy-yellow
lifera: a dusty, mauve-pink
menelli: a deep pink
pfafna: a shimmering white
seereye: a pale, delicate blue reminiscent of young seereye blossoms
yuku: a deep black-violet hue, inky

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Minerals

alabaster: a creamy-white, or pale hue
basalt: a dark grey, black hue
flint: normally a grey tint
flint-eyed: denotes possessing hard or sharp eyes
granite-like: uniformly speckled, resembling the stone
jasper: red or reddish-brown
marble: smooth or sculpted looking skin or eyes, usually prefaced with a color "She has skin like white *marble."
obsidian: black or glassy-black
onyx: a deep black hue

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gems

citrine: a bright, orangy-yellow or orange hue
ruby: a scarlet hue
temboeye: a striated, luminescent hue of yellows and browns and black similar to the gemstone, chatoyant
jade: a pale to dark, opaque green
beryl: blue-green, transparent
turquoise: bright greenish-blue
isilt: a pale, creamy whitish-yellow to light tan
sapphire: deep, bright blue

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Plants and fruits

agafari: grey or greyish brown
baobab: a maroon or purplish-brown hue
belshun: a medium to dark purple
cunyati: a medium-brown tone
cylini: a light-brown tone
cyprini: a dark-brown tone
ginka: a rich, vibrant red or red-violet
horta: a rich black
jallal: the creamy yellowish-white hue of its wood or the color of its fruit: a bright orange
kalan: a turquoise hue
loreshi: a deep, indigo-violet hue
maar: a yellow-grey hue
numut: a medium-grey like old cobwebs
ocotillo: a medium violet hue
whipleaf: a deep, rich brown
pech: a dull, greenish-brown
arruth: a purplish-green hue
grebel: a purplish-brown hue
pymlithe: a silvery-grey hue
vishith: a pale to medium dusty red

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Spices

qel: a greenish-brown
thodeliv: a rich black
krentakh: a golden yellow
zharal: a deep red/brick red
methelinoc: salt-and-pepper or grey

Marauder Moe

  • Posts: 12907
Arm-specific descriptions are out of hand...
« Reply #71 on: April 10, 2006, 11:03:55 AM »
If this goes into a doc there should be a part warning against using animal names in sdesc and then joining the Byn.   :roll:

EDIT: Also weren't spice names and associated colors supposed to be a "find out IC" thing?

mansa

  • Posts: 9560
Arm-specific descriptions are out of hand...
« Reply #72 on: April 10, 2006, 11:38:12 AM »
Quote from: "Morgenes"
I'm sorry that Davien decided to pull her character builder page, because I know it has helped many a newbie put together a short description, and many a veteran come up with a new combination.


Know what is awesome?  THE INTERNET.


http://web.archive.org/web/20010803151936/http://www.ci-n.com/~darklyn/armageddon/char.html

LOOK WHAT I FOUND!!!
New Players Guide: http://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,33512.0.html


You win Armageddon, congratulations!  Type 'credits', then store your character and make a new one

Aldiel

  • Posts: 933
Arm-specific descriptions are out of hand...
« Reply #73 on: April 10, 2006, 01:02:52 PM »
Quote from: "moab"
I personally do have a problem with descs that include "sky blue" or "honey blonde" because those things don't exist in our world.  Sky red, honey green are, however, appropriate."
True dat, I find it jarring sometimes when I see things like "coffee-eyed."  I'd much rather just have brown-eyed, or agafari-eyed.
b]. / ^ \ ,                    
|| --- || L D I E L[/b]
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Maybe42or54

  • Posts: 4170
Arm-specific descriptions are out of hand...
« Reply #74 on: April 10, 2006, 07:27:03 PM »
Quote from: "mansa"
Quote from: "Morgenes"
I'm sorry that Davien decided to pull her character builder page, because I know it has helped many a newbie put together a short description, and many a veteran come up with a new combination.


Know what is awesome?  THE INTERNET.


http://web.archive.org/web/20010803151936/http://www.ci-n.com/~darklyn/armageddon/char.html

LOOK WHAT I FOUND!!!


I love that site, it is in my favorites. Has been since I started.
If you explore, you'll find a little page called "in-game flavor"

http://web.archive.org/web/20011208201337/www.ci-n.com/armageddon/in-game_tips.html
Arm is evil.  And I love it.  It's like the softest, cuddliest, happy smelling teddy bear in the world, except it is stuffed with meth needles that inject you everytime